Newbie Overclocker

[UCBShocker]

Hello All,

I am so green to this area of computer use you could mistake me for LA tap water. I have a Pentium 4 2.8 Ghz and I was thinking of pushing it to 3.0 Ghz. I have a MSI 865PE - Neo 2 so I know all I have to do is push up the CPU Bus clock. I did that and right now I am sitting at 2.940 Ghz, but if I go any higher the computer will refuse to boot. I was starting to freak out until my motherboard recognized the problem and reset everything after spouting something about DRAM clock to tightly something or other (I love MSI, was worried for a second).

So now I am curious, what do you think happened? I am pretty sure the pentium 4 2.8 has more headroom than that. I have the 800mhz bus version if that means anything. My ram modules are both Kingston Hyper X (CAS 2). Is there something else I am supposed to do to get more mhz out of my processor?

Oh Ya... I only want to go to 3 because I am using the regular cooling system.... my CPU is holding around 47 celsius while idle so I am guessing this current level of OC is fine (60 more mhz shouldnt hurt)

[BeerHunter]

Set memory to asnyc like 2/3 and max you chip out... No higher than 1.6 volts please or you could fry chip.. just watch your temps (maybe set emergency shut down for 70C in bios) ..yea what's happening is your cheap ram can't handle Higher speeds.. most can't, so we have to run them out of bus speed to overclock...but that's still cool...more free performance.

[Dcasole]

I am so green to this area of computer use you could mistake me for LA tap water

UCBShocker, There is a lot more you have to do than just push up the FSB. Since you are a newbie I will try and list them for you.

Please post your system specs ( see my signature) as it would be much easier to help you if I knew what you had
Is your 3.0 a "C" or "E"?
What are you using to measure your temps?
Are you running your memory in " Dual Channel" mode?

1- Lock your PCI/AGP bus speed to 66/33. this will change once you raise your FSB and you must go back to it and bring it back down. This is what is probably what is holding you back right now.
On a MSI board it will " Grey Out" when you raise the FSB but you still can change it ( the lowest you can go with this board will be 67/34 which is ok)

2- Raise your Memory volts to 2.7 or 2.8 ( set to the lowest your system will run stable) MSI boards will default to 2.5 which is to low.

3-Memory divider- set this to 5/4 divider for now . On a msi board you do this by setting the memory bus to 333 for PC3200 . once you get it to boot stable overclocked you can go back and change this to 1:1

4- Disable Spread Spectrum- If enabled this will cause instablity problems

You can get more of your questions answered here at the MSI boards
http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?sid=

This is a great overclocking board and you should have no problem reaching 3.5 to 3.6 with that chip

Good Luck and post back with your results

Dave

[batboy]

Let's keep it simple.

Lock the AGP/PCI to 66/33 like D said.

The error message you got was about RAM. Either the timings were too tight or it didn't like the ratio. Regardless, sounds like the mobo auto adjusted it. You can learn more about RAM overclocking later. For now, just let the mobo auto adjust it. Later you can come back and fine tune it when you know more.

Try for 3 gig (214 FSB). That should be an easy no-brainer for default voltage and stock cooling.

Good luck and welcome to the forums.

[UCBShocker]

Thanks for the great responses, I think I got most of it deciphered hehe. Here is some info...

I reached my 3.0 Ghz mark last night, after some research, by increasing the CPU Vcore one notch to 1.5375.

Right now my bio says that the AGP PCI clock is 71.66 / 35.83 ( I will bring this to as close to 66/33 as I can on next boot)
DDR voltage at 2.5 ( Why should I raise this again?)
AGP Voltage 1.5

CPU temp ranging from 46-51 on idle, I have a new CPU heatsink and fan on the way to replace the stock one ( I will let you know if it helps), I am using the MSI Core program to monitor temp.

Now here is the funny part, I can not find my invoices so I do not know exactly what I have. I dont know if my P4 2.8 is a C or E, nor so I know what that is. I do know my board can only take Northwood and Prescott Pentiums if that helps =/
(Just found out I could edit... I think I have a C because I have hyper threading and the 800 Mhz thing.... at least I am pretty sure)

As for the Ram, all I have is that its Kingston Hyper X, I am guessing its PC 3200, but I can not be sure since I can not find my invoices. This listed anywhere? Dual channel is on, at least I think it is. I did everything it told me to do for it. Are you laughing yet? =)
If there was a place on my computer that all this was stored let me know... never really delved into this area before.

You really think this processor can handle 3.5 or 3.6? I don't know if I want to risk that, but 3.2 would be nice.

And finally when it comes to you guys saying set memory dividers and take off Async... I have no idea what so ever what that means... I will look at the provided websites and see if I can learn anything, but if you feel like enlightening me I am all ears =). Thanks again.

[UCBShocker]

Ok I think I have the Pentium 4 2.8 C, because I have hyper threading and I remember getting the 800 Mhz bus.

[Dcasole]

DDR voltage at 2.5 ( Why should I raise this again?)
Take my word on this one , you need to raise it to get the memory to run stable . Search the MSI boards and you will see many recomendations for this )

CPU temp ranging from 46-51 on idle, I have a new CPU heatsink and fan on the way to replace the stock one ( I will let you know if it helps), I am using the MSI Core program to monitor temp.
From the temps you are posting I would have to guess you have a Prescott . you can download " cpuz" and this will tell you exactly what processor you have

GET RID OF CORE CENTER!!! :bang head That program is so buggy!! Again seach the posts on the MSI site and you will see what I mean . Use the Bios

Dual channel is on, at least I think it is
When your system boots up it will say either " Single Channel Mode" or "Dual Channel mode" You have to have your memory in banks 1 & 3 or 2 & 4 on this board for dual channel to work .

You really think this processor can handle 3.5 or 3.6?
You bet I do but " your milage may vary" :)

And finally when it comes to you guys saying set memory dividers and take off Async...
Set your memory to "333" this will be 5:4 and allow you to overclock higher. you will lose some memory bandwith but you should be able to make most of it up with the higher FSB

Keep Trying :clap: and we will keep helping!

Dave

[batboy]

Download a program called CPU-Z and that will tell you a lot of info about your CPU. I'm assuming you have a Northwood 2.8C from the vcore you're running. The Prescott 2.8E also has 800 bus and hyperthreading.

Double check that vcore again, because what you listed don't seem correct. You shouldn't have to use more than 1.55v if it's a Northwood at such a minor overclock. If that's a Prescott, then you are on the verge of frying something.

Definitely lock the AGP/PCI to 66/33, that's very important. For overclocking the RAM you need a little more vdimm, so increase that to at least 2.6v. To attempt anything more than 3.2 gig will require better cooling. Do you have extra case fans?

[UCBShocker]

Ok I have a Northwood afterall, but something is wrong... in the BIOS it says my Bus clock is 215, and I remember setting it up 15 from 200, so thats all good. But CPU-Z and MSI Core program both say its a 214, is this normal?

As for Voltage, my bios Vcore setting is 1.5375... however CPU- Z shows a range from... 1.488 to 1.520. I do not why the Vcore voltage is not constant... but it may be the dynamic overclocking function I have activated with my MSI board, or if the chip uses variable current then I guess the voltage has to change, unless the resistance is changing... but thats just a guess here. Any thoughts?

If I raise my DDR voltage from 2.5 to 2.6 or 2.7 wont that over heat the chips? There are no fans on the ram modules, just little heat sink slabs. CPU Z also does not monitor temperature like core does, if my cpu gets too hot will my computer warn me without core center on? I dont want to burn out my chip (Though pentium 4s just slow down instead of burning out according to a movie I saw... pretty funny hehe)

So from where I sitting right now, do I need to anything more than setting my DDR Volts to 2.6 and Bus speeds to reach 3.2 gigs? I of course am going to wait till I get my new HS and fan, and yes I have a case fan in there.

OH YA, my DDR clock went to 430 from 400 with this overclocking... is this ok?

[musawi]

And I thought I was a noob, up the voltage on the RAM for stability and it looks like you got heat spreaders on your RAM so heat is not an issue,then you hold on. Get the heatsink install it and go for 3.6. Dont go over 1.6 keep it cool.

[Drec]

yes your DDR cloc kwent from 400 (200x2 your fsb) to 430 (215x2) because you changed your bus frequency..

and dont wory about cooling the ram, the heatspreaders will do fine for >3v's

and check into a program called motherboard monitor to keep tabs on your temps, try doing somthing cpu intensive so you get a good diea of your load temps.

and its normal for your Vcore not to remain stable, bouncing from 1.488 to 1.520 is no big deal. all motherboards do that.

and just because you have it set to 215 in the bios and its really 214 is no big deal, its give or take a mhz.

that CPU you have is well capable of very high clock speeds (4ghz+) if cooling is good enough :D

[Drec]

And I thought I was a noob

Intel Pentium 4 3.2 Ghz (not overclocked yet)

you are a newb :p

[UCBShocker]

Well if it were not for this forum I never would have found out my ram was on single channel mode. I just changed my ram voltage to 2.65, and on the boot up I noticed it said single or virtual single under the ram... geez... all this time.... BAH, ok I got to fix this hehe.

I dont think I will be going to 4 Ghz Drec =), I would be happy with 3.2 I am pretty sure. I just want to wait for my new HS and fan... dont want to fry anything. Geez I wish I thought about overclocking earlier.

[BeerHunter]

Correct me If I'm wrong...but shoul' nt he set mem to 2/3 just to get an idea of how high his chip can achive, independent of memory,? Then later find out what his mem is capable of by 1 to 1 mem, raising bus and Vdimm along the way?

This is the way I've always OCed at least, in steps, finding the max of each componet, taking notes, then combining results for some Ideal matrix.

Definitely lock the AGP/PCI to 66/33..

[Drec]

Correct me If I'm wrong...but shoul' nt he set mem to 2/3 just to get an idea of how high his chip can achive, independent of memory,? Then later find out what his mem is capable of by 1 to 1 mem, raising bus and Vdimm along the way?

This is the way I've always OCed at least, in steps, finding the max of each componet, taking notes, then combining results for some Ideal matrix.

well hes on stock cooling, so he shouldent get to far. but thats what you'd want to do if you had alot of headroom.

[UCBShocker]

Ok so I attached the new heatsink... the new idle is 41 celsius... is this ok in this forum's expert opinion? I hope so... I thought I would get a little lower than that, but I guess not...

[musawi]

Whats your temp when you are on load?

[UCBShocker]

Dunno, cause when I am on load I cant see the screen. I just removed one side of the cover though and my temp dropped to 36. I ran doom 3 for awhile and quickly started my temp program and the temp was at 41 and falling fast. I think I should keep the cover off... I mean 36 is pretty damn good.

[musawi]

I dont think you have many fans in your case.

[UCBShocker]

2 case fans, power pack fan, motherboard mini fan and cpu fan.

[musawi]

hmm, the only thing wrong with taking the side panel off is dust.

[mtb856]

I do not why the Vcore voltage is not constant... but it may be the dynamic overclocking function I have activated with my MSI board, or if the chip uses variable current then I guess the voltage has to change, unless the resistance is changing... but thats just a guess here. Any thoughts?


Disable the Dynamic Overclocking ( set it to standard..... or the eq. I can't remember the name exactly)because it will severely limit your overclock. Set the MAT to normal as well for the same reason.

I have the same board (with a few small differences)..... I have the Neo2-PFS w/ a 2.4C so our BIOS should be exactly the same. Like Dcasole said, get rid of Corecenter.... it's just a pain to use and your won't be able to oc as far if you use it. BIOS overclocking always works better than a Windows based overclocking software. To monitor your temps, I'd download either Motherboard Monitor 5 or Speedfan... either one'll work well for what you need.

I would imagine that it's the Dynamic Overclocking and/or MAT settings that have been killing your overclock so far... once you change those settings, you should be able to get higher.

Your idle temp isn't bad... with a 41°C idle, you're probably at 50°C load which gives you a little headroom for overclocking and raising the vcore.

Have you changed your frequency from "AUTO" to "333"? If your DDR's at 430, you're still running a 1:1 ratio and you're probably at the limit of your ram's speed.

I think that's about it, just ask if I've forgotten something or confused you at all.