Nvidia G-force 3 Finally beaten!!!!

[Paul.K]

I'm just after reading a review of the new Radeon 2 over at tomshardware.com. I couldn't believe my eyes Nvidia GForce 3 beaten in a 3DMark2001 benchmark test by hundred or so points yahooooooo!!!!!!! Finally Nvidia as a serious rival which hopely will mean it could end up like AMD VS Intel.......

Go over and have a look....

Hugh clock speed and memory bandwidth...

[jeff_harrison_344]

Man When I saw that I had a big grin on my face!!

I loved 3dfx, therefor hating Nvidia, and I kinda like ATI :)

[jeff_harrison_344]

It seems obvious that if NVIDIA's intention was to screw up ATi's Radeon 8500-launch then the decision makers in Sunnyvale should be proud. NVIDIA will think "to hell with sportsmanship. We won and that's all that counts!" Well, I cannot say that I am a big admirer of this philosophy, but I know that I am of a dying breed.

Still, Radeon 8500 has huge potential and after almost losing the first round, it might well come back and win the next few rounds. Radeon 8500 has the biggest muscles in this contest and now all it takes is to train the cerebellum. There is no doubt that the hardware engineers of the Canadian chip and board maker have done an excellent job. Radeon 8500 has all that it takes: Brute force in terms of core clock, pipelines and memory bandwidth as well as a huge set of nifty features that sets it apart from any other 3D-chip in the market. Now it's the time of the software engineers to build up upon the fundament laid by the board architects. Let's hope that ATi has learned from past mistakes and that its driver department has been improved. It will be tough to compete with Dwight Diercks group of software engineers, who have so far proven to be the best driver makers in the industry.

I like Radeon 8500 and I won't let NVIDIA spoil my happiness about the fact that a 3D-chip maker has put a product together that can give NVIDIA's flagship a run for its money. The timed Detonator 4 release reminds me of old Intel tactics and it lets ATi win a lot of sympathy. Times have changed and while NVIDIA is on its way to become GeForcilla, ATi is looking more and more like the AMD we remember from the days before Athlon. Today, a world without ATi would be like a world without AMD. Intel and NVIDIA would do with us whatever they want. We need the competition.

I'd also like to send a few words of criticism across to Toronto. I don't think that it was a wise decision to launch Radeon 8500 now. The product is obviously not quite ready yet and we testers didn't appreciate the fact that three important features of the card wouldn't work. I hope the next Radeon 8500 that ends up in my hands will be 100% operational.

Radeon 7500 seems like an interesting product, especially for the price. However, before I come to any final conclusion I will have to test it against Kyro II and others.

[jeff_harrison_344]

Man this looks good

[jeff_harrison_344]

ONE MORE

[funnyperson1]

Actually i think of ati as more of an intel if you compare the products....one is faster and much hotter (nvidia/amd), one is more efficient and better designed and cooler(ati/intel).......i still like ati and intel but competition is good for everybody, and even though i just got a gf2 pro i probly will still like ati(a little too much cost)......

[WillysNut]

Finally!!! Something to create some competition and let a whole lot more of us run better cards! :) Awesome news!! Thanks for the heads up Paul.

[Placid]

Competiton is usually good for prices but I also see the ATI cards price is expected to debut at $399.00

[UnseenMenace]

When will someone make affordable competition ?

[Paul.K]

You know what increased competition means!!! Hopely lower prices!!! We might be in for a good time folks!!!

[Zuck Gou :)]

Radeon 7500 should be quite affordable and be blazing.

[Cocytus]

I sure hope the prices come down because 400 is just to much

[fuzzba11]

ATI giving nVidia a run for it's money...hmm, somehow I don't think so. With the announcement of such a card, I'm sure the nVidia bosses are whipping their hardware AND software monkeys to have their next cards out before the new Radeons ship...I mean really, you don't think nVidia could do it? They already ship out new cards every half year without breaking a sweat...

[MetalSiren]

The GF3 MX and GF3 Ultra (type) cards are expected soon. I wonder how these will par upto the Radeon 8500 an 7500.

[Angry]

I cant find the review of this baby? can somebody give me the link..I seached toms but no luck

[Placid]

http://www4.tomshardware.com/graphic/01q3/010814/index.html

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1517&p=1

[Silversinksam]

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/01q3/010814/index.html

[funnyperson1]

dont worry, the price will go down...remember that the geforce3 debuted at 460.....the 8500s price should go down quickly to compete....

[Kingslayer]

I have been saying it since I came to this place, and I will say it again....

LONG LIVE RADEON!!!!

[Angry]

How many of you guys know what your getting for christmas now? I definitly do..all those features!!!

[Katabatik]

Im making a pretty big assumption here but I'd have to say that you guys are starting to sound like those people who blindly backed AMD before they really produced anything worthwhile. Not to say that the new Radeon isn't impressive or anything but we all know about the drivers, and considering that this produst is like five months behind the G3, I 'd say they still need to get there act together.

|0|

[TUK101]

All that I can say to all of this.........is that I miss 3DFX in the mix. They kept everyone competetive. Maybe someday they will resurface and put out something good again? Or am I just dreaming?

[Thirus44]

hrmmm only if somone buys the rights back from nivida. I was really looking forward to the V5 6000 (somthing that would blow Geforce 3 outta the water for gaming performance) I went with ATI just because im hoping they will put out somthing and be the come back underdog (like amd) They are starting to do so. Although I have to agree they did it to early.:p

[Kingslayer]

Originally posted by Angry
How many of you guys know what your getting for christmas now? I definitly do..all those features!!!

And that's the thing, not only is it $100 cheaper (it's hitting the shelves at $300) than a GFarce, it has way more features....

Originally posted by Katabetik
Im making a pretty big assumption here but I'd have to say that you guys are starting to sound like those people who blindly backed AMD before they really produced anything worthwhile. Not to say that the new Radeon isn't impressive or anything but we all know about the drivers, and considering that this produst is like five months behind the G3, I 'd say they still need to get there act together.

I was an nVidia fan right up until the Radeon was made. It turned me becuase of great performance, price and features. I didn't care if it was a little slower than a Gfarce. There more to games then FPS. And the driver issue is a null point. They have overcome their driver problems and they did it in two tries with the Radeon 64 DDR. How anyone can complain about ATI's drivers with nVidia pushing new ones down your throat every week I don't know.

Originally posted by TUK101
All that I can say to all of this.........is that I miss 3DFX in the mix. They kept everyone competetive. Maybe someday they will resurface and put out something good again? Or am I just dreaming?

I too miss 3Dfx. They had it pegged, best cards ever made. But unfortunatly they aren't coming back. nVidia bought them up for a reason. The 3Dfx people say they bought them to get them out of the way. The nVidia fans say they bought them out to get the technology.

Seeing nVidia hasn't used any of that technology....I'm leaning on the 3Dfx fans side.

[Violator]

I'm curious to know Kingslayer, how you come to the conclusion that the driver issue is a null point because ATI have 'overcome their driver problems'?

I don't count two yeah two official updates in a year overcoming the problem.

I don't count the minor fixes in the beta versions, which often lead to other problems then arising.

I can't count any performance increase, the 7075 drivers were (and still are) the fastest, and they were release when? March?

Vsync working in some, broken in others. FSAA broken in some, not in others.

And I certainly don't count the varied range of tweaking we have to do to get the majority of games running acceptably.

ATI driver support SUCKS, it always has, and the people who think it's suddenly going to improve overnight with the R8500 I think are greatly mistaken.

*the following is not directed at anyone in particular, I'm ranting*

Also what is it with the anti-Nvidia attitude? I see this on another forum too.

If ATI had produced an absolute kick-ass card that significantly beat the GF3 in every category, would you not all be acting the same as many Nvidiots at the moment? Bragging how 'your' card was the best in fps and quality?

To be honest, I've heard the 'I don't like Nvidia's business practices' oh sorry, since when did we all become so conscious of how businesses work. They're there to make money, if you aren't competitive and AHEAD of the competition you go under.

The fact is, the R8500 is not perfect, and it is not a GF3 killer. I don't care if it is an alpha or beta board with beta drivers, ATI just aren't up to the task obviously. And as for Nvidia releasing the new Dets at that point, well, that was just business. You are not going to get the Nvidia or ATI directors sitting saying oh well the competition is launching a new product we better just sit on our arses.

And I'm not anti-ATI hell I have one of their cards, which is nice, not as fast as a GF2, but looks good, about as good as the GF3 quality-wise.

Nor am I pro-Nvidia I just find all this 'mine's better than yours' attitude rather childish.

Christ get one or the other, they're both much more powerful than anything you really need at the moment.


My 2p, I'll shut up now :)


No offence to anyone.

[Kingslayer]

I can say that ATI has sorted out their driver problems from experience on my end. I have had not one single issue with them. All the games I run run great, the video in and out work flawlessly. As do the other features of the card.

I don't care what drivers are faster for the Radeon. I don't care about FPS in games. It has come to the point in games that it doesn't matter on these high end cards because they are going to run it and run it fast no matter what. I want it too look good.

I think ATI is back on track, and I do think that nVidia has, with lack of competition, been caught with their pants down. Maybe only for a short while, but it's worth it.

Most of the ATI driver problems that you put up there happened with 3rd party drivers. Not the ones from ATI, they work fine. You can't hold ATI responcible for 3rd party driver problems. The two drivers that ATI released work.

I have had to do no tweaking for any of my games to run. And these games include Half-Life, Counterstrike, Delta Force Land Warrior, Diablo, Diablo II, Quake II, Quake III, Day of Defeat. And this is running on Win2k.

Am I being anti-nVidia? I'm trying my best not to be. I don't have a problem with their business strategy. But sometimes I do tend to be anti-nVidia. Why shouldn't I be, its an opinion, not a review. I like to see the underdog win. I don't like AMD either, but I will give them their props on speed and overclockability.

But I also don't think it is fair to let ATI rot in the dust because they are a few FPS slower on the original RADEON and the RADEON 64 DDR then their respective nVidia counterparts. These review sites look at nothing but FPS.

But at $100 cheaper, and from the benchmarks faster or just as fast as a GFarce3, and loaded with features, I think it will be a GFarce3 killer. You said it yourself, nVidia isn't going to just sit there, they are going to have to make something faster...

[Über~PhLuBB]

ATI diesn't stand a chance. The Radeon 8500 is BARELY, BARELY faster than a GF3, but only in 16 bit mode. By the time the Radeon 8500 comes out, nVidia will have it's next super chip. ATI blows, has blown, and will always blow. (You may replace the word "blow" with the words "is behind" if you dont want to admit they suck.)

[Angry]

Originally posted by PhLuBB
ATI diesn't stand a chance. The Radeon 8500 is BARELY, BARELY faster than a GF3, but only in 16 bit mode. By the time the Radeon 8500 comes out, nVidia will have it's next super chip. ATI blows, has blown, and will always blow. (You may replace the word "blow" with the words "is behind" if you dont want to admit they suck.)


Phlubb...we didnt ask you to diss the card. Plus that 3dmark result is in 32 bit...the quake 3 demo being slow in 32 bit could be because of a driver issue...and the fact that its a test board. Also nvidia needs the competion as stated before, you being mature would have realized this. Plus if nvidia has competion it will drive the prices for thier geforce cards down for you. Now why diss something that will help you?

Everybody else in this post has kept a mature tone..you on the other hand in my view have not.

That is all.

[Über~PhLuBB]

Originally posted by Angry


Everybody else in this post has kept a mature tone..you on the other hand in my view have not.



Quite right. I apologize. I prostrate myelf before you, and beg of your forgiveness.

[Angry]

Ok I screwed up...

I got ****ed because of how PhLuBB "commented" on this topic.
I was gonna say something else but I have decided not to because I do not want to screw this topic up as it is very informative. Sorry guys that reply is not worth reading...much.

[Nagorak]

Features aside, there's actually one major reason why I own a Radeon instead of a Geforce: Image Quality! It's simply a fact that the Radeon has much better image quality than the Geforce 2 (and 3). You can argue that "image quality isn't that important" or the quality is "close enough", but I simply don't care. To me, Image Quality is king.

So, the good news for me is there is now a faster card available that offers the same uncompromising image quality that I demand. Whether it beats the GF3 or not, is really irrelevant in my view, since I don't consider the GF3 to meet my basic criterea for a graphics card (good image quality).

At the moment the price is a bit steep, but I am fairly certain that I will eventually own a Radeon 8500. Wildcards of course are the new S3/VIA card in the works (but based on the lackluster track record of both VIA and S3 I'm not going to hold my breath), BitBoys (assuming they ever actually produce something) and of course the Kyro 3. The question is whether either of those will produce the image quality and clarity I demand (and of course whether I have purchased a Radeon 8500 or not by the time they are released).

[Kingslayer]

How dare you imply that FPS isn't everything and anything....

[Placid]

Those of you who are consdering ATI's next-generation Radeon 8500 may want to wait it our for a while. According to this report over at Tweak 3D, there are still issues that need to be sorted out.

And just when you got all excited about the 8500, ATI has the 8800. Apparently the 8500 has serious compatibility issues, that's why Anand and Tom both said that ATI should not have announced it. And this is true. This is pretty bad for ATI. They still have no clue about how its driver team needs to improve either. For all you ATI lovers out there, do serious research before jumping the bandwagon this fall or else you'll get heavily burnt. Just some advice. Hopefully by then, ATI will fix all issues.


http://www.nvnews.net/

Hmm...