Turning on HT causes BlackScreen'O'Death on boot

[hungryhungry123]

Hi,
For a while now i have been having a problem where the PC would display a BSOD saying "driver_irql_not_less_or_equal" just as windows starts - ie after seeing the loading screen and before actually seeing the mouse pointer. however, i found that by turning of Hyper Threading, i dont have the problem.


interestingly, when i let the machine run with the BSOD on for a minute or two, i can then restart and it runs fine. i can even click restart and have no problems. the problem reoccurs when i turn off the pc, allow it 30 mins or so, then turn it back on. it seems that it happeens when the PC is booted from cold.

does anyone have any ideas? I and a lot of poeple i've asked are stumped. and no, reinstalling xp doesnt fix it...

P4 3ghz HT
1 gig ddr ram
radeon 9800 pro 128
audigy 2
windows xp home

thanks

[Rio71]

board ?

[hungryhungry123]

slightly, but what does that have to do with anything?

[hungryhungry123]

sorry i couldnt resist :)

its a prebuilt Dell system, so ill have to get back to you on what the model of the mobo is, but it seems to work perfectly elsewhere. ive scoured dell websites and the internet in general, but to no avail. and after ringing dell about a different problem, id be surprised if they could fix this...

[bchur83]

Did you install windows with it off? If so, you would either need to update the ACPI driver, or reinstall Windows in order to use HT.

[hungryhungry123]

yes, i believe it was turned off when i recieved the PC - but since then i have reinstalled, and im pretty sure it was on then. so what would you recommend? Btw, thanks for your 2 replies in my 2 topics

[aNTiChRisT]

hehe, made me chuckle :)

I feel funny chuckling at the pc, in this room by myself :)

If you can, try it in another PC -- they you can say it is/isn't the chip.

~t0m

[bchur83]

I would say to turn on HT, then do a clean reinstall of windows. See if that solves it. If not, then there may be a different problem that you are having.

[LabRat23]

I agree with bchur. When you install Windows, you are not just copying files from the CD. The CD is really a program that sets up a copy specificaly for your hardware. I get the blue screen of death quite often when I change out hardware. The problem with windows is that it does not recognize HT as one chip. When HT is on, windows is saying where the heck did this other cpu come from?

[Mr.DLucey]

He's using the Home version of XP, you need the Pro version for HT.

[hungryhungry123]

if possible, id like to do a clean install of XP as a last resort, as other people use this computer too and it was a bit of a pain last time.

the thing is, once i have turned on, BSOD, off then turned on, the PC works perfectly with HT on, it is seen as 2 processors in the device manager, and sisandra sees it as one with HT enabled. if there was a permanent problem with windows, i dont see why it would only show from a cold boot? im pretty sure i have the latest motherboard drivers.

[jenko]

He's using the Home version of XP, you need the Pro version for HT.

Where did you hear that :beer:

[diehrd]

I would reset the cmos...And set all bios settings to default..Then see how it goes..

Usually if you install Windows in a DUAL system you have to have both processors durring the install or u end with a single processor install.I am no expert on the home addition BUT it must have a software layer that manages the apps durring hyperthreading and to my way of thinking YOU SHOULD install fresh with H/T enabled ..

[Mr.DLucey]

Where did you hear that :beer:
Pro features that aren't in Home Edition

Power user

"Multi-processor support - Windows XP Pro supports up to two microprocessors, while Home Edition supports only one."

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp

[diehrd]

GUYS HOME EDITION SUPPORTS HYPERTHREADING...lol...
http://www.intel.com/support/platform/ht/os.htm

[jenko]

My home edition supports hyperthreading just fine!!

In my asus mobo book it states service pack 1 is recomended with HT enabled?

[jenko]

Dont forget HT logical and a dual cpu rig are differant things.

[Mr.DLucey]

I stand corrected, thank you.

[izzugotom]

I upgraded to P4 3.06Ghz. If I enable HT the PC is unstable crashing in nearly every program.
>I was advised by most to reformat if you do a change like this.... :attn:

>If I run Spybot+Adaware+NAV scan, I get blue sreen of death. :bang head

I solved the problem, by:



1-Uninstalling the processor, and reboot...Then it loads the drivers for both.
>This solved the P4 putting the disk in a senseless loop. I also had blue screen. I now only got lockups with intensive disk work like defrag of NAV scans. At this stage I could burn the P4 with Sisandra without locking.

2-I then came to the conclusion that the disk is unstable with HT, so I update the chipset drivers, reboot, and boy, the PC was stable, but with some minor warnings in Eventviewer about pagefile, and reboot twice :burn: .

3-I then uninstalled disk, and reboot, go in devicemanager at HDD, got message from there to reboot again, so I did.

The problem was solved, so just for the hell of it I uninstalled the processors again, reboot, the disk again, reboot, reboot, deleted all prefetch files, deleted the pagefile.

I cannot get this PC to crash now :argue:, without re-formatting :beer:

:cry:
Note:My experience is that HT is faster in places, and the P4 runs 7c cooler with HT enabled, and 2c cooler than my previous 2Ghz P4, but the heatsink has copper insert, and I added another fan[3x] boosting the processors fan.

It runs +5c in BIOS, +3c atWelcome screen, at max +10c above room temp.

[hungryhungry123]

interesting...

ive just reinstalled XP as advised by many, and it seems to have solved the bsod on boot but now i get it on intensive processing, like the guy above said. i will try your method, but 1 q - when you disable the drives and processor, is data lost? i dont want to have to reinstall again....

[hungryhungry123]

... and when you say uninstall, do you mean simply click uninstall in devicemanager or physically remove processors?

[hungryhungry123]

bump

[izzugotom]

Yes. I mean uninstall from DeviceManager, and if you click it, nothing happens, then you log off and reboot...It is now that XP detects the twin processor arrangement and install it again, so it completes booting, and once at Welcome screen, both processors drivers are reloaded again....You do not losse any data.
:bday: No need to remove processor physically :bday:
I must say, I gained some serious respect for XP during my experience, seeing the disk is unstable with HT enabled, and still I lost nothing.

Reformat is not an option for me, until I tried everything on the earth.

[izzugotom]

I will further advise you to reboot, disable HT, and let it load one processor, then you only have to uninstall one, reboot, and enable HT and boot.

[izzugotom]

After 2x weeks of uncertainty, when I one night put my head down on bed, this uninstalling the processor idea striked me.....I thought everything will just die if I do it, but seeing I got a cloned disk, I proceeded, and believe me it's no big deal, but the results were most satisfying in my case.

[izzugotom]

As far as I am concerned, you can uninstall anything about your system as you like, as long as you 1st make sure that XP has it's driver loaded for it[By Microsoft], if not, you must have of course the correct one ready !!

Although it won't let you uninstall the HAL.DLL & Kernel :bang head
>Computer....ACPI Multiprocessor PC:temper:
>Actually I 1st tried to uninstall this... :attn:

[hungryhungry123]

i may give that a go tomorrow. thanks for the advice - ill let you know how it turns out

[hungryhungry123]

:(

since i did as you said, the blue screen no longer appears during boot - however it usually comes up within a half hour of booting, usually when doing nothing more intensive than surfing the web. interestingly, it seems that using the scroll wheel on my mouse usually preempts a bsod, but that could be just me. if it doesnt bsod, i can run intensive apps like games fine - it seems to be the first half hour of boot that the problemm lies in.

[izzugotom]

Have you got a USB modem ? Disable it, and see if blue screen disappears,.
>>Surfing the net: Have you got USB modem with it's own chipset, or not, because if not, its more involved software wise, not a desighn I like.

Try same with your mouse, or try another mouse....It should never happens.
>Is it you mouse at diff programs, or same program ? :mad:
Have you updated you chipset drivers ?

I also think you must disconnect/disable all your external devices, and see if you can get rid of this.

I have a USB modem which is temp sensitive both ways, hot and cold,
which causes a restart if the chipset gets to warm, after left unattended before dialling up ISP,if I then DIAL, the PC reboots[or blue screen if chosen option], so I cooled it, problem never re-appeared, but causes the modem to initialise incorrect sometimes when cold, I can live with this, cause no other modem I bought actually worked better I bought, thats why I cling to it....,so maybe you got some device which is temp sensitive, hot or cold.....You have to start eliminating,... :temper:

If all this happens only with HT enabled as you get it now, well repeat what I did again, and remember to disable System restore afterwards, so that incorrect settings loaded is not stored/Restored!!.....Afterwards enable it again. Also delete all the prefetch files and reboot.

:clap: Forgot to ask...Are you overclocking...??

Have you tested memory with Memtest for 2hours ? :clap:

>>Post the full details of blue screen you get now. :santa2:

[hungryhungry123]

wow, thanks for the detailed response. ill see if i can answer those questions-

I do actually have a usb modem, but it has an ethernet port too - when i put it through that, i have the same problem. the usb modem drivers are up to date. im not entirely sure what you mean by having its own chipset - i think it is hardware configured, as i was given the option to set it up for PS2 use when the pc is turned off, so im guessing that it "thinks for itself" rather than through the PC - but im not reallysure what you mean by that. as for the temperature, it does get warm - but as ive said, the system is stable if it is OK for more than half an hour, when it gets warmest. and after all, i have no problems with ht disabled.

the mouse is also usb. ive noticed it lock while scrolling both in IE, and in windows media player, but it could be just a coincidence.

i have updated the chipset drivers as best i can - intel website doesnt recognize the board as it is a dell prebuilt, and there is only one or two versions of teh chipset drivers on the dell website.

what are the prefetch files you mention? do you mean the system restore save points?

im not overclocking this system at all - its a dell prebuilt, and i have the warranty/service for another 2 years, which i guess would be gone if i overclock.

i havent checked memtest for over 2 hours, but i gave it around half an hour once and it had no problems. also, i cant see how memory can be the problem if it is fine with HT off.

i will write down exact details of BSOD next time i see it - tommorrow morning, im pretty confident :) however it gives next to no information - i wish it gave a program name or something, to give me a clue.

the obvious solution is to just turn off HT - but i paid for HT, and i use this machine as a file server and ICS gateway for my other pc, so it needs all the background thinking help it can get...

thanks for your help again m8

[izzugotom]

im not entirely sure what you mean by having its own chipset

If you open the modem and look at the chips inside, the biggest one is the chipset for example IC+......If you only see a few small ones, it probably has not got one.
You can also querry the modem with ATI1 ..to ATI12 commands to see info..Use terminal.
Modem work is realtime stuff, and a modem with it's own chipset just works better.

DELL...What does the Dell diagnostics has to say. I still think you must start eliminating all added on stuff, including the mouse to prove which one does not like HT.

If it's not add on stuff, the problem becomes more complicated.

Was you BIOS updated ?, maybe you must flush it again.

[izzugotom]

Prefetch files: Go to C:\Windows\Prefetch.....Here lies a lot of prefetch files. Windows save copies related to programs it opens here, to speed up it's next excecution of the program. It fastens the PC operation. You don't want to delete these everytime you boot, but after you fixed problems, I think it's a good idea.

I usually delete them, as well as the pagefile, as well as disabling/enabling System Restore just after I fixed problems.....I fixed all my problems in over 3.5 years without reformatting. I do have a cloned disk for backup, but never had to use it.

The hassels after reformatting is just too much for me...Hours and hours to get everything as it was..No way. I do have some respect for XP-PRO, and believe they protected the Kernel well, otherwise I must have messed up mine on previous occations. :beer:

My protection for disk failure is twofold:
1- A cloned disk, interchanging them from time to time.
2-A properly cooled disk.....I believe a cooled disk last much_much longer.

[hungryhungry123]

not sure if i want to be opening up the modem - its loaned from our broadband company and so isnt really mine to mess with. however i may disconnect it and see if that makes any difference.

tried deleting the prefetch files and reinstalling processor - no difference.

dell diagnostics finds no problems.

if it helps, here are thef ull pc specs -

p4 3ghz c 800mhz fsb, semi - HT (lol)
1024mb 400mhz DDR RAM
120gb Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm 8mb cache SATA
DVD-ROM Samsung (updated firmware)
DVD+RW NEC (updated firmware)
Audigy 2 (Dell edition i think - but still updated from creative website)
Radeon 9800 pro 128mb Omega drivers
Floppy disk
USB Optical Logitech wheel mouse
Logitech multimedia keyboard (a regular keyboard but with a few extra shortcut buttons, no software)
USB Lexmark X75 Printer
USB Speedtouch 530 Modem
speakers and monitor, obviously
Win XP Home

Bios flashed (or flushed as you put it :) ) to version A05, although i believe there is an A06 out now.

i cant stand the blue screen! at the minute im trying to decide between simply not using HT, or simply not turning off the PC - leaving it in standby when not in use. what do you think?

cheers again

[diehrd]

I think your only solution is to go back to the start.

remove all add on cards except video card,AND reinstall XP with H/T enabled.Once you have that done install chipset drivers video drivers and a fire wall,virus protection.

Then get all the updates you need..To not set a system up correctly from the start is usually a problem EXSPECIALLY when we are talking H/T or Multi Processors..

[hungryhungry123]

i have - i reinstalled XP with it enabled a couple of weeks ago, im sure it is mentioned in the posts above.

[izzugotom]

Something easy to try:Go start-Run-msconfig, then uncheck all at startup, then go to Services, and HIDE all MS services, then DISABLE the rest of the services and reboot......What happens now ? :mad:

:bday: :attn: :burn:
I know it feels like cutting off limbs, but you reached the stage where you have to start eliminating.

I will also scrutinise the BIOS settings, to see if something you don't use on the MB, is enabled..

I would start by uninstalling and disconnecting all USB devices....

Then the other stuff like the Audigy 2

Then hope it clears before you get to MB....Good luck!

[izzugotom]

Exactly which PSU you have ?

Excactly which MB and revision you got ?

How many stics of Ram you got ?

[hungryhungry123]

just to update u guys on this - i still havent got it working, but at the minute im using the workaround of having the PC on all the time, and just going into standby when not in use. when it returns from standby, there is no BSOD, with HT enabled.

[domstar]

How do you turn hyperthreading on?Can all P4's do it?
Dom

[izzugotom]

Not all P4's are capable of it, so make sure before buy especially if FSB=400/533.
:burn:
It also looks like the Intel Application Accelerator plays important role here with HT and speeding up things.

[domstar]

How can i foind out if my chip is ht capable? Its a p4 533 i think. My mobo is definately capable of it(abit is7-e2). Whats the intel application accelerator?
DoM