Fridge Cooling.. How?

[Treker]

Hey Guys/Gals..

Well so far I've got all my parts.. compressor, radiator, ect.. off my old dorm frige..

Well now I'm wondering.. WHAT NEXT? :)

I got some impressive (so I think) plans for a cooling block assembly, and if I pack things just right the whole works should be about the size of a shoe box or two at most..

I would take some photos of what I've got so far but I'm down to 2 shots left, should save them for acctual assembly..

Anyways, my question is.. Any ideas/hints/pointers ya'll got for me?

I'm interested in learning how to represurize the system and what else I'll need todo.

-Trek

[Treker]

BUMP!

Come on, surely someone here knows about refrigeration basics ? :)

-Trek

[lennytiger]

I haven't got a clue but if you run your fridge normally as if you would store food and beers in it. then run a drain pipe through it so as to cool the air as it goes throught the pipe and the connect that to the intake fan on the front of your case. If you set your fridge to the coldest setting and stores some beers or cans in it you should find that it will cool the air going in. To cut your case check Tweak 3D...

[Rob Cork]

Too late Lenny, Treker's already cut everything out of the fridge (see his previous post) :)

Treker, I have no idea exactly how a fridge works but I know the principles behind it, though I guess you do as well (gas expanding and absorbing heat etc). I'm assuming you're looking for more info about stuff like oil in the compressor and things. Hmm. Maybe this link (http://home.talkcity.com/ConnectionPt/ptcg/athlon2-1.htm) will help - it looks pretty cool.

Someday soon I'd like to get some of the hardware to do a project like that - I bet you could pick up a second hand fridge for next to nothing and get all the parts out of that. The hard part (as you're finding) is what to do then - knowing what to connect where and stuff.

Sorry I can't be of any more use, but I'll be following this thread closely to see if anyone more knowledgeable replies :rolleyes:

[befamfivh]

Your post is a little vague, otherwise it would be easier to give you a few pointers.

You have all the parts out of your fridge, I assume they're all still connected (so you still have a working loop)? In that case, you could use your the part that gets cold (I'm sorry, I completely forgot its technical name) to cool off a water resivoir and do some interesting things with refrigeration/water cooling.

Or were you planning on refrigerating the CPU directly? That might not be such a good idea depending on how beefy your dorm 'frige is (was). The thing is, most dorm 'frige compressors aren't meant for continuous operation -- they cycle on and off as stuff in the fridge begins to warm -- and your 'fridge's compressor might crap out on you eventually if you can even manage to get it to operate continuously. On the other hand, it might work just fine, but then you still have the issue of designing and making a <insert technical name for part that gets cold here> for your processor (which is definitely easier said than done). Then you'd have to deal with refilling the system with refrigerant (the substance that cycles from liquid to gas in the system), which I assume is a real pain in the a** from what I've seen in articles that outline doing just that.

All in all, I would suggest you try to use your dorm 'frige innards as a compliment to a watercooling system. Much easier and probably far more effective cooling for your processor.

[ptcg]

Check my website. There should be almost everything you need to know about refrigerating the CPU.

You'll need to make an evaporator (the part that gets cold LOL) and a way to secure it to the CPU.

The compressor should be fine running continuously (I've had mine run for days at a time with no problems at all)

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me... And let us know when you get it running, I'm sure everyong would love to see some pix!

[Treker]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the replies, I've been sick lately so things have been hard.. I'm still going though :)

Alright, I went to the hardware store .. the other hardware store.. the junkyard (saw my old toy metal truck crushed next to a radiator in a hudge pile, broke my heart heh).. a refrigeration store, auto store.. ect..


Alright so here is what I got 50 bucks and 4 hours later..

I have (2) elbows that where pieced together from copper/steel parts.. allows me to go from 5/16's to 1/2 for compressor out to radiator..

Tryed those this morning and found out that 1/2 isnt big enough, figure I'll take them back and just get a 5/16 to 3/16(or whatever this other line is) elbow and forget about useing a smaller radator..I'll have to attempt the compact version later.

Now I have plenty of copper tubing, but I"m thinking I"m going to have to pick up more capulary tubing.. thats gonna be a ***** to set up..

I did find a kit for recharging ac systems.. for 52 bucks... HAHAHAHA.. NO WAY.. looked around amore and managed to pick up only what I needed.. can of r13a, nosel, line, male end, and male end to 5/16's adapter.. for around 20 bucks. (still have the old oil)

I"m in the process of cutting my old raditor in 3 spots.. along the fins.. they dont carry anything.. so I can fold it 3 layers thick and save some room.. need a cutting blad, I am NOT gonna snip each of these buggers by hand.

What is really on my brain is an evaporator set up to go against the cpu directly and how to insulate/regulate it.

I've seen a couple copper pipe caps that would fit in eachother.. but where to small for my tastes and would barely cover my core, not to mention later on when I might have a chip with an IHS (Intergrated heat spreader)..

I've also looked around for an automated temputure regulator.. found some old ones on half ton cooling systems in the back of the junk yard but the wireing is a maze and I"m not going to mess with it.

Hoping to pick up something like an electronic termistate you use in your house.. but can be set down to -50 or so.. that gonna be hard..

Right now I"m kinda upset as my elbows dont match.. and I busted the radiator I was going to use.. its fixable though, solder the pipe back into it.. but still.. this is getting to be a drag.

What I dont know is How much r13a / oil I'll need to recharge this system once I am done and what pressure it should be at.. I have no way of messuring this!

I'm gonna check out some of the sites you guys mentioned now, thanks for replying was feeling lost :)

-Trek

[Treker]

Originally posted by ptcg
Check my website. There should be almost everything you need to know about refrigerating the CPU.

You'll need to make an evaporator (the part that gets cold LOL) and a way to secure it to the CPU.

The compressor should be fine running continuously (I've had mine run for days at a time with no problems at all)

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me... And let us know when you get it running, I'm sure everyong would love to see some pix!

Btw, I have the exact same compressor as you do :)

What did it take to recharge that baby?

-Trek

[Treker]

Well I took the elbows back and am going to use the orginal radiator, just washed it off when I was in the barn doing chores.

Anyways, I have the refill line all set up, so all I have todo is hook up the can of recharge and let her go..

What I need todo now is get the radiator down to size, connect the radiator line to the compressor, make an evaporator.. and last but not least resolder the capulary tubing and return path for the vapor...

Ugh.. my head hurts guys.

-Trek

[Despotes]

I can picture Tim "ToolTime" Taylor doing something like this. lol:D

[Treker]

Originally posted by Despotes
I can picture Tim "ToolTime" Taylor doing something like this. lol:D

Bah, you no help!
:p

Anyways, I've got the radiator cut down to size, all the tubing ready to be soldered,, tested the capillary tubing by blowing on it.. nothing came out!

Good thing I checked, that would have seized my compressor, I'm gonna pick up 3.5ft of new tubing today, and perhaps if I got enough $$ left over I'll get a couple 1.5inch end caps to solder into a evaporator!

Other than that, the compressor is looking really nice, sanded off the rust and washed her up good then gave her a fresh coat of black paint, did that do the radiator as well, but I've abused it a bit getting it down to size, will wait till I have soldered the new capillary tubing into the condensor then will sand her up a bit, wash her up and give her a new coat of paint as well.

I'm looking for a good size peice of oak to asemble this all on.. dont feel the need to drill holes in my case, I can just as easly leave the side off and set this all on top :)

-Trek

[Treker]

Well I picked up a couple end caps and pipe,, thats gonna make up my evaporator, also got what I thought was capulary tubing.. its not.. arg.. managed to blow whatever was blocking the flow in my old tubing, will TRY to use that..


Just got back from trying to solder everything together.. what a disaster.. ended up melting some of the capulary tubing right off and scorching everything, and almost my foot as well...

Called my brother in-law a few mins ago, he is a professional plumber.. hehe

Left a message with my Sister, hopefully I can get him todo the careful work for me..

I'm pretty sure I got impurities in my system, going to have to figure out a way to clear it out.. most likely a good blow with the air compressor :) (HOPEFULLY)

Well my ambition is getting very very very low, specialy when I'm getting sicker, damn flu

-Trek

[r0ckstarbob]

this is VERY interesting stuff mr man. please keep updating. am in the final design stages of one of these as we speak, though using a slightly different concept.

if you could just get another roll of film and post some shots of the process, man oh man would it be helpful.

i am in the process of cleaning up the designs and notes and will be posting them for public consumption/troubleshooting within the next week or two before i start construction.

good luck. keep us posted.

RSB

[Treker]

Tell ya what guys, I'm about half way done, I'll take a photo of everything and then later cut it up to show the steps along the way.. then take a photo when I'm done and its (hopefully) working..

Getting the camera out..

-Trek

[r0ckstarbob]

you da man, sam

[Treker]

okay Guys, blew all my film on this one, the first shot turned out crapy, put the stuff on a peice of scrap carpet to make it show better, but the aluminum pipe didnt show all that well:/

Ok, what you see here is the cleaned up and painted compressor with the fill line already togo with adapter for a recharge kit.

The radiator that I mentioned, I've sized it down, used to be one big wide sheet, I cut the fins in two places and folded it 3 layers thick, much easyer to work with, the condensor is on the end of the radiator.

The evaporator is going to be made up of the three copper parts there, 2 end caps and one 2inch lenght of pipe that I had to hasel getting cut off a 8ft lenght at the hardware store.. hehe

The silver rod your can hardly see there is what carries the capillary tube from the condensor and to the evaporator, it also carries the used vapor back to the compressor for cycleing..

You get the idea.

Need to solder it in 3 places, from the compressor to radiator, the compressor to the aluminum return tubing, and the condensor to the capillary tubing..

Also need to finish sanding and cleaning the 3 copper peices for fluxing and sweating, I will be drilling a hole into the top of that assembly before putting it together, that hole is where the capillary and vapor return tubing will be placed and soldered.. that is where the cooling will take place and what is to be on top of my cpu, still need to work out a clamping system..


Laters,

-Trek

[Treker]

Egads, got cut off, here is the pic.

-Trek

[Treker]

Well guys, it was fun, but now its over.

Trying to solder this thing has killed all my ambition and probaly my radiator.

trying putting together the evaporator first.. solder wouldnt stay no matter what I or my Fater tryed, and he knew what he was doing.

I said alright.. I'll try something else..

Well so I started work on soldering the capillary tubing into the condensor.. lets just say that wouldnt stick either, and yes it was clean, and yes it was fluxed.. 2 hours and 1 foot of solder later, I get it to stick -whoo hoo- *Heavy Sarcastic*

well that was about the best part of it all, not to mention my burned foot.

after that I figured I'd solder the radiator to the compressor.. so I sized it up all right, made a cut, cleaned it up, fluxed it, and went to solder it.. was as bad as my first attempt, then I look and some how in my flu-drunk'n stupidness I managed to aling it WRONG and this whole thing would be bigger than a mid size computer case. and badly laided out to boot.

At that point I said **** it and started carrying my stuff in.. then it started to rain and my screen door fell off...

I am having one bad day.

-Trek

[Treker]

Ugh.. I've cooled off a bit, but I'm still sicker than a dog :/

good news though I put plumbing tape on the intake for the radiator and screwed the nosel to the can of recharge onto it and let her blow.. for a while it was pluged pretty good.. I tightened up the seal and accidently sprayed my finger with that stuff. froze it instantly, only hurt for a split second... got the seal good and tight and turned it on full blast.. whatever was blocking it was blown out and it worked!..

Now all I need todo is figure out how to hook the radiator back up.. I managed to cut to much pipe. perhaps if I get a larger diamiter tubing and place that over both short ends and "solder" it.. maybe that will work..

and I think I figured out the evaporator problems, it appears the tubing was actually aluminum with some sort of copper coating.. no wonder it wouldnt solder to copper.. I'll have to sand everything up and buy more tubing..

That will have to wait though, all my funds gonna go to my Brother, gotta help eachother out ya know.. wondering how many drinks he's bought me in the years..

-Trek

[r0ckstarbob]

damn d00d. sorry to hear it.

[Treker]

Maybe I'll pick up some more tubing tomorrow, doubt I'll do anything today, going to stay low and rest, try to get ride of this flu.. atlest its happening during the weekend..

If all goes well (and it normaly dosent) I should have this done in a week at most.

*sneazes*

Maybe not..

*wipes off monitor*

-Trek

[Rob Cork]

Don't lose heart Treker - just think how well the thing's gonna cool when you finish it. Even if you don't do a great job of it, you'll probably still get crazy low temps! Just take a break if you need to - don't get frustrated and rush it, only to regret it later. I think I did that with my first attempt at a clear reservoir, and I spent ove a week trying to stop the leaks before just taking it apart and reassembling it more carefully... works fine now :)

Keep going mate, you'll get there :D

[Treker]

Thanks for the encouragement, lord knows I need it.

I guess it dosnt help that I'm sick, just heard a while ago that parents where thinking of selling the house and building something on the river instead.. argg. we've had this place for about 8 years :/

I highly doubt it but maybe I'll try to get some tubing tonight.. after that all I'd need todo is put the oil back in, solder everything up, and recharge it and see what happens.

Hopefully it will work.

-Trek

[Treker]

Doh!,

Its sunday, nothing is opend, will have to try in the morning if I'm feeling up to it, need a new evaporator line, 4ft will be plenty, 5/16ths or something that will fit snuggly over it.. even better if I can get a 5/16ths to 5/16ths compresson fitting, but I cant find any of them :/

After that I can solder up my evaporator and run the capillary tubing into it.. then I'll need to make a 3-way solder.. the capillary tubing will run from inside the vapor return tubing to the radiator where it its currently attached, but the vapor return tubing will connect to the compressor as well..

Thats gonna be tricky.. then I need to solder tubing from the compressor to the radiator.. hook back up the electronics (hotwire it to run constantly as well) and recharge her.. and see what happens :)

-Trek

[VashTheStampede]

I'll get you Treker, and your little refridgerator cooled P3 too!!

I have a few ideas myself :D

~RT~

[r0ckstarbob]

why do you have to solder it? can't you thread it?

[Treker]

Originally posted by r0ckstarbob
why do you have to solder it? can't you thread it?

compression fittings you mean?
well wish I could but cant find anything for the size of tubing I"m using, so I have todo it the hard way..lord knows I'd love it if I could just tighten everything together with compression fittings..

-Trek

[Treker]

Originally posted by RedneckTech
I'll get you Treker, and your little refridgerator cooled P3 too!!

I have a few ideas myself :D

~RT~

Bring it kajirus, just bring it, I'll slice your t-bird like a vulo and feed it to the sleens

-Trek

[snyper1982]

man wish i could help you out i worked as a plumber for about 6 months and i can solder pretty danged good. i love it actualy, i think its fun. i just got back inside from helping my dads friend with some plumbing. took a break to see what was going on on this board. i really hope you get it working though. that woul be awesome.

[Treker]

yeah I just need to get off my lazy arse and pick up some tubing so I can solder her all together, and try her out.. maybe tomorrow :)

-Trek

[ptcg]

You're better off soldering all the connections.. You can't thread copper tubing (the walls are too thin) and compression fittings, although very handy & easy to use, are not a good idea for this application.. You really should have permanent connections. No leaks, no problems.. My unit was mostly complete when I got it, so I only had to add an access valve and solder the evap to the capillary & return line.. Not much work, but everything is soldered, secure and working great!! Still only 7C at 100% load!

[Treker]

Originally posted by ptcg
You're better off soldering all the connections.. You can't thread copper tubing (the walls are too thin) and compression fittings, although very handy & easy to use, are not a good idea for this application.. You really should have permanent connections. No leaks, no problems.. My unit was mostly complete when I got it, so I only had to add an access valve and solder the evap to the capillary & return line.. Not much work, but everything is soldered, secure and working great!! Still only 7C at 100% load!

Have you tryed using that to cool a tec on your processor?
I'd like todo that in the future, because I cant take the coolent below -15c or it boils, as you told me :)

Though.. now that I think about it.. if it boils that would actually make the heat transfer more efficantly, no? :)

(assuming it didnt blow it up)

-Trek

[ptcg]

No no... I said the boiling point was -15C.. When you put the gas under pressure, you raise this point such that the gas turns into a liquid.. When the liquid reaches the evaporator, the pressure is dropped & the liquid "boils off". This changes the liquid to a gas, where it absorbs the heat supplied by the cpu... It has to "boil off" or the phase change won't occur & the heat won't be absorbed.. All refrigeration works under this principle...

I had the pressure to high on my system at first and the liquid wasn't reaching this boiling point. I had liquid being sucked back into the compressor & the compressor actually started to get frost on it.. (The liquid was boiling off inside the compressor instead of the evaporator)

And no, I havent tried putting a TEC on the CPU.. I've got enough stuff hooked to this beast already.. I don't want to put out anymore money for electricity.. I'm sure if I did I could get temps well below 0C though, if I get 7C with just the refrig.

;)

[Treker]

Ahhh, I see what you mean,, I was under the impression that I could not get my system lower than -15c because of the coolents boiling point.. this is not true however?

-Trek

[Treker]

*Bump*

Looks like I wont be doing much for a while btw, dont favor going into town at the moment, people are still hoarding gas and food.

-Trek