View Full Version : Need help-High Temperatures, perfomance and noise problems on ATHLON 1.4 GHz!
Hello, you may laugh at my questions because I don't know much about computers, but here are the facts.
I have buy a new heatsink because the other I had it was too weak.
-TEMPERATURE-
The new heatsink fan is the CPU COOLER model WBK38 from Global WIN company -including Artic Silver II silicone material.
It's a "BIG" cooler! Fan speed 6800 +/- 15% RPM. Is it true that if I connect that heatsink straight to my motherboard (and not to my PSU) it wiil burn it?
But even with that, the CPU temperature is between (starting from 40 C) 54-57 C /134 F degrees with the case open, in an idle -or running small applications like WordPad, condition.
If I run a game (like Max Payne or Dune 3 3D) the temp is going at 73 C with case open!
Do you find those temperatures "normal" for my processor?
What will happen if I close the case? A friend of mine has told me that the temperature will be almost the same, if I install a second (and perhaps a third) fan in my case to keep a good air flow.
-NOISE-
But beside the temperature another major problem (at least for me) is the noise!
This heatsink is producing 46.5 +/- 2 dB of frequency noise! Much, even with the case closed!
What can you suggest me for a good CPU heatsink that keeps the temp low and same time not producing too much noise? What's the best way to eliminate noise?
My friend has told me a little for Peltiers. Peltiers are needed? They are good? The more important, can I trust them?
-PERFOMANCE-
Another question I have is the perfomance /degrading issues. With that system (check spec. bellow) I was expect to see HIGH performances but until now I haven't noticed big differences from my old P3 533MHz, GeForce 256 DDR, 256 MB RAM.
For example, the Max Payne with all on /high at 1024x768 -32bit color (or 800x600) in some internal areas with buildings with many floors it slows much when I look up!
Same with Emperor Battle For Dune. From the FIRST MOMENT in 800x600 -32bit color /all high it seems to change speed (between low /good speed) constantly (not periodic slowdowns)! Like the speed of my machine is not stable!
This is strange. With my old system I ran D3 ALMOST PERFECT in same resolution 16bit color -all medium. And now that I have twice plus power it looks like untapped!
Perhaps the temperature causing all that?
Problems /anomalies encountered during the hardware /software installation:
1. In DOS (using WinMe Boot Disk) after a routine format, each time I type "setup" to install Windows Millennium (Greek version) the system was reset! This problem bypassed when my friend bring me the English version of WinMe!
2. Some times when I start the PC, the CPU speed is at 1050MHz!
It has anything to do that with CPU THERMAL OPTION -THROTTLE? The CPU VCORE is ok? (default) 1.750.
3.When I try to install the new drivers for my motherboard /chipset (4in11432) in the end of the installation the pc it always hang!
Well, that's all! I am very sorry for the length of my message and for all those stupid questions but I really not know what should I do and if everything is ok and I desperate need help from professional people like you guys.
With regard,
Satch
PC Specification:
PSU 300 W
ASUS A7V266
AMD ATHLON 1.4 GHz /266 MHz
512 MB DDR RAM /266 MHz
ATI RADEON 64 MB DDR RAM
QUANTUM FIREBALL PAS 20.5 GB /7200 (DMA on)
SONY CD-DVD 40 /10x speed (DMA on)
SB LIVE!
Fans installed: 4
Only the standards, CPU, PSU, GPU, Motherboard.
70c is way too high of a temp.
Asus is known for being off by about +10c so it may be really 60c but that is still quite warm.
If your fan is too loud you can replace it with a quieter one unless you want a different heatsink anyway.
TranceBear
09-06-01, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Satch
Fans installed: 4
Only the standards, CPU, PSU, GPU, Motherboard.
Are any of these 4 fans in the case? You should have at least 1 fan sucking air into the case and at least one blowing all that hot air out. I would recommend that you look at the beginners guide on the main page and take some time to read. There are so many issues here you may need to just do the research on the main page to get all the correct answers. Good Luck!!
e_storm
09-06-01, 03:13 PM
well, I can't answer all the questions, but your temps are a problem definitely. I think asus has had problems in the past with false readings on their temp monitoring, but I'm not sure if its in your particular board or not.
The GlobalWin sounds like a good cooler, it has a review on the main page and did pretty well with a C/W of .22. There are really only 2 things that can be causing the temp problems.
1) cooler is not mated properly to the die or does not have thermal grease on it. Are you sure the HS was installed correctly and that the thermal grease was put on properly? Instructions for thermal grease are here (http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm).
2) your cooler is doing a good job, but you don't have enough air flow in the case to exhaust all the hot air it's producting. Obvious answer there is to install a few case fans, keeping the flow of air in mind (intake in the front bottom, exhaust out the back top).
3) combination of both. If you get temps in the 70s, you are definitely too hot and if I had to guess, I'd say the cooler is not on properly.
If your cooler is too loud and you don't mind shelling out some more money, the Millenium Glaciator is a good pick from a cooling/noise ratio standpoint. Its about $40 US. There are a bunch of reviews of HSs on the main page to help you pick out a good one.
As far as the performance, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure the temps are causing a few problems that might not be there normally. High temps can cause freeze ups, automatic reboots, and all sorts of other strange occurances.
Good luck and don't run the computer for any long period of time at that temp. :)
First of all, thank you for your replies!
I want to say 2 more things.
About ASUS motherboard temperature false reading, honestly I am not sure it if is exactly correct but is close to the PC PROBE ASUS Windows utility.
And I can feel the warm when I put my hand close or up to the heatsink.
*NOTE* Don't forget that those temperatures is with my CASE OPEN. So, for the time being no extra fans will work better from an one side-open case ;)
A recommended heatsink from AMD for their processors is the GlobalWin FQP38 (as it has written on a local computer magazine) but it is producing EXACTLY THE SAME NOISE AND FAN SPEED as mine.
Please tell me more about how to keep normal temperatures and noise level at low. I hate noise!!!grrrr
Where can I find the specs. for that Millenium Glaciator?
I am almost sure that the heatsink it's been placed correctly.
It's the Millenium Glaciator the best CPU cooler regarding performance /noise?
Originally posted by Satch
First of all, thank you for your replies!
I want to say 2 more things.
About ASUS motherboard temperature false reading, honestly I am not sure it if is exactly correct but is close to the PC PROBE ASUS Windows utility.
And I can feel the warm when I put my hand close or up to the heatsink.
My first thought is that you did not install the heatsink properly, but then you said that the heatsink feels warm when you touch it. Does it feel really warm? Or just luke warm? If it feels really warm, then chances are you installed the heatsink properly, otherwise it would not get very warm, all the heat would be on the processor and not transferred to your heatsink. If the heatsink feels luke warm or not warm at all, then you know you did not install the heatsink right. So, my next guess is that the fan on the heatsink is not doing a good job of cooling the heatsink, but you said its a 6,800 rpm fan, that's sounds a like a Delta fan, which is one of the best. So how warm is the heatsink when you touch it?
Right now the CPU temp (according to PC Probe utility) is 44 C / 111 F and the heatsink are not warm at all! (before it was)
But right now I have air-condition on my room (plus the open case). Damn, the noise is much!
popadel
09-07-01, 04:53 AM
I dont know how you get those temps cause my systems colapses at 60 celcius. it simply gives me a blue screen and then restarts. (I m is the temp shutdown from my ECS board which is abscent in the Gigabyte board)
Βρε κιθαριστα τις συμφορας.... τι καταφερες να κανεις με τον AMD ? τον εψησες για τα καλα ??? τεσπα....τη GeForce την εκλεισε ενας φιλος να τιν αγορασει οποτε σε λιγες μερες θα εχεις 20 υπεροχα χιλιαρικα στο πορτοφολι σου....στειλε κανα email:D :D :D
!-=sky=-!
09-07-01, 08:52 AM
i dun think the cooler is enough for your cpu
get a swiftech or glaciator with a ys-tech 4500rpm fan
those will be a lot quieter while offering better performance
where is your power supply located on the pc, is it directly on top of your heatsink? if so there's your problem
they block airflow since the crappy fan on the psu cant suck much air in
Rob Cork
09-07-01, 09:04 AM
Welcome to the forums Satch! As you can see, don't be afraid to ask questions you might think are 'stupid', as no-one will laugh at you here. We were all newbie once, and everyone has to learn sometime - and you're not going to learn without asking.
I'll try and answer your questions, but I think the first thing I would say is not to worry about any performance issues right now. The poor performance in games you are seeing could definitely be caused by the high temperatures, so I would tackle the temperature problem before worrying about performance. If better cooling does not solve performance issues then they're probably driver-related problems - you can fix all of that with a bit of fiddling, but first things first. Cool that cpu down! :)
As you have the case open, the heatsink is probably getting all the cool air it needs. I can only think, as others have said, that the high temperatures are a result of the heatsink not being mounted properly. Try actually taking off the heatsink, cleaning off the thermal paste (a tissue would do fine for this), and reinstalling the heatsink. When you reinstall it, and engage the clip, try and make sure the heatsink is sitting flat on the core, and doesn't rock back and forth. I know it's hard to do with the strong clip on the Globalwins, but try anyway. Also check that the base of the heatsink is smooth and flat - it should be (Globalwin's are normally pretty good). However, if it's been damaged (scratched or gouged) that would stop it making good contact with the core, and could result in high temps like yours.
For the time being, just concentrate on the heatsink. I'm sure that's your problem - good luck getting it fixed :)
PS The Glaciator would be an excellent choice, it has a much easier clip to use the Globalwin and the base is very smooth and flat.
e_storm
09-07-01, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Satch
Please tell me more about how to keep normal temperatures and noise level at low. I hate noise!!!grrrr
Where can I find the specs. for that Millenium Glaciator?
Yea, I hate noice too lol. I think the Millenium is a great cooler for the noice level, which isn't that much. Here's a review from OCers main page. (http://www.overclockers.com/tips519)
Here is where you can order one. (http://millennium-thermal.com/start.htm)
I haven't tested many coolers, but with me hating noise like you, the glaciator works very well. :)
Regarding the temperatures I have made a mistake.
With the case open, running Max Payne the temp is going at 59 C.
The 73 C degrees is when I close the case and run a game (as I said no case fan installed yet).
So what do you think of the first temp. is it normal?
Anyway, no matter how good AMD processor's are, IMO the biggest fault of the developers is not to design and sell their own CPU COOLER with the Athlon.
From the other way this is good for the people who like to exceed a "little" the power of their CPU and are in need for a BIGGER CPU COOLER. :cool:
My GlobalWin cooler from design scope is not good.
The performance is ok I believe but the noise is producted not by the fan but for the bad construction. So the air blows and blows...
by Alex99
My first thought is that you did not install the heatsink properly, but then you said that the heatsink feels warm when you touch it. Does it feel really warm? Or just luke warm?
Well when I touch the cooler /heatsink it feels warm! But not hot so it will burn me. I don't know if this is natural at 59 C.
Now at 54 C it's only a little warm. Perhaps the fan is powerfull enough to cool it.
Rob Cork (nice case!!), -=sky=- and e_storm ,
Thanks for the additional cooler info, In a country like Greece good heatsinks are rare.
Also, I have sent an e-mail in PCMagazine to exchange more information.
-=sky=- I am not sure I have understand what you say about my PSU. The PSU is 3-5cm above the CPU COOLER.
Uther, dont burn my Geforce you madman!:eek: :mad: :p
Originally posted by Satch
First of all, thank you for your replies!
I want to say 2 more things.
About ASUS motherboard temperature false reading, honestly I am not sure it if is exactly correct but is close to the PC PROBE ASUS Windows utility.
And I can feel the warm when I put my hand close or up to the heatsink.
*NOTE* Don't forget that those temperatures is with my CASE OPEN. So, for the time being no extra fans will work better from an one side-open case ;)
A recommended heatsink from AMD for their processors is the GlobalWin FQP38 (as it has written on a local computer magazine) but it is producing EXACTLY THE SAME NOISE AND FAN SPEED as mine.
Please tell me more about how to keep normal temperatures and noise level at low. I hate noise!!!grrrr
Where can I find the specs. for that Millenium Glaciator?
Something is really wrong here, since i got the same cpu and a globawin fop38 which cools worse than the wbk38!!
I get temps of 45c- 48c loaded with case open, with an housefan blowing into the case i get 40-45c. On my asus a7v133 mobo.
Also the temps in asus probe is wrong like 10c too much, but still ur temp is way to high. Try loading the cpu with a game or something then reboot and go into bios and check the temps there! The bios always got near correct readings.
The problem with 3d games: Have u installed the via4in1 drivers that came with the mobo?? have u activated agp in turbo mode? and u have set it at 4x agp?
Also it can be the geforce 256 card holding u back, getting a bit old i think
Originally posted by Satch
First of all, thank you for your replies!
I want to say 2 more things.
About ASUS motherboard temperature false reading, honestly I am not sure it if is exactly correct but is close to the PC PROBE ASUS Windows utility.
And I can feel the warm when I put my hand close or up to the heatsink.
*NOTE* Don't forget that those temperatures is with my CASE OPEN. So, for the time being no extra fans will work better from an one side-open case ;)
A recommended heatsink from AMD for their processors is the GlobalWin FQP38 (as it has written on a local computer magazine) but it is producing EXACTLY THE SAME NOISE AND FAN SPEED as mine.
Please tell me more about how to keep normal temperatures and noise level at low. I hate noise!!!grrrr
Where can I find the specs. for that Millenium Glaciator?
Rob Cork
09-07-01, 10:56 AM
I don't think the GeForce is a problem, I have a GeForce 256 DDR, and I can run Max Payne fine in 32bit textures and with most options on. It probably is either a driver problem or due to the cpu being too hot.
As for Sky's comment about the psu, I believe he was referring to the fact that some case have the psu alongside the mobo rather than above it, like below (sorry for the crap pic, it's only MS Paint):
Rob, thats a mighty fine image comin' from MS Paint!!
Rob Cork
09-07-01, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by n2
Rob, thats a mighty fine image comin' from MS Paint!!
Thanks - how's bout this? Did it while I was bored and planning my watercooled case... :)
Will ask for a simple thing here!
What about your MB temp?
It is easiest to figure out a heatsink problem if we can see there is a difference of 20C between the CPU and MB temp.
Rob, did you draw all those case pix using MS Paint? If you did, if you did, you are my idle. I can hardly draw a simple map using just lines using MS Paint!
Rob, you are awesome on that proggie man!!!
how long does such an image take you?
personally, i'd like to know how the hell you do it, cuz i also... can't even draw a friggin' smiley face that looks proper in that prog.
you're gifted man... you need to go after CAD drawing for a career!
Probe utility and ASUS BIOS reports almost the same temperature (+/- 2).
But don't forget computer temperature depends from the air temperature. If you live i.e. in North Pole you will never have problems with overheating :)
Today's temperature in Greece has reach 28 C /82 F.
About games and drivers, the answer is yes, I have installed 4in1 from ASUS CD and then I have try to install the newest but something fails (see my first post, paragraph: Problems /anomalies encountered during the hardware /software installation).
Ps. I have ATI RADEON 64 DDR in that machine.
Originally posted by Would71
Sorry to hijack the topic, but do you play Tribes 2 as LilSatchMo?
No. The only online shooter I play online is Unreal Tournament.
Originally posted by sciss
Will ask for a simple thing here!
What about your MB temp?
It is easiest to figure out a heatsink problem if we can see there is a difference of 20C between the CPU and MB temp.
Right now the temps. are:
CPU 53 C / 127 F
MB 36 C / 96 F
And always my MB keeps a lower temp. from my CPU..
I thought this is normal.
Morphoius
09-07-01, 05:49 PM
From your last post, the difference between those two temperatures shows that your heatsink is seated correctly. the ambient temperature you have though is really high. If you don't have one, an air conditioner would help your temps, as if your room temps go up 5 degrees then your CPU temps go up 5 degrees.
Also you will need good case cooling, but unless you want more noise than you have now your temps will go up with the case sides on. i just run with mine off.
I have the glaciator in my case. it is not the best heatsink, but is a good cross between noise and proformance. it is also solid copper so it is really heavy. if you get it beware that it could consevably fall off if you knock your case around too much. if you take caution while moving it you should have no trouble though.
Good luck in your system
PS: my temperatures at 1.333ghz and 1.92v are 23 and 41 idle right now.
Originally posted by Satch
Right now the temps. are:
CPU 53 C / 127 F
MB 36 C / 96 F
And always my MB keeps a lower temp. from my CPU..
I thought this is normal.
First of all, Welcome to the forums.
Although I don't have any experience with that particular motherboard, I do with the A7V series. The temperatures that you show would not be out of line on one of these. The ASUS Probe has been known to report temps as much as 10C higher than actual on these boards. For instance, right now with the ambient air temperature in the upper seventies, my motherboard is at 43C and the CPU is at 59C as reported by the ASUS Probe. I also use the Global Win WBK 38 and I must admit it is loud, but it is also very effective.
I didn't see what size case you use, but you may be running into problems with airflow being disrupted with too many cables etc. in a small case. A bit of housekeeping in this area can be helpful. Also you can sometimes enhance the airflow with the installation of all case members (sides, top etc.), and a bit of careful planning, with the use of ducts, baffles etc. Another common problem often overlooked is the placing of the case on a carpeted floor and the carpet actually seals off the lower front intake on many cases, blocking the main air intake. (although it doesn't apply to you at this point) The cooler weather in the coming months will surely help as well.
If you haven't seen any of the obvious signs of overheating, unexplained lockups, spontaneous reboots etc, then the reported temps are probably not an issue.
As far as the lack of performance in your games, once you get the system stable you then begin the process of "tweaking " the system for optimal performance. AGP settings, memory timing settings etc.
I hope this helps,
Good Luck!
!-=sky=-!
09-07-01, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Rob Cork
I don't think the GeForce is a problem, I have a GeForce 256 DDR, and I can run Max Payne fine in 32bit textures and with most options on. It probably is either a driver problem or due to the cpu being too hot.
As for Sky's comment about the psu, I believe he was referring to the fact that some case have the psu alongside the mobo rather than above it, like below (sorry for the crap pic, it's only MS Paint):
yea, that's what i was talking about
if your case is like that then what u should do is take off the psu and put it on top of your machine
i think that will lower your temps 2 to 5 C
btw -- nice pic rob
Good Morning,
What is the "normal" temperatures for 1.4 GHz and what is the default CPU VCORE.
What will happen when I close my case?
By closing the case, with no extra fan -s inside and running a game the temp. reaches 73 C!
A second fan (I will place it today) can really
drop back the temp. to the 60 C (max -with case open) in the closed case?
Sorry for asking all those questions I am on my way now to find a better (quiter) CPU cooler.
Usually I do a lot of reading but with this noise breaking my ears you understand I am in emergency situation, lol!
Rob Cork
09-08-01, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by Satch
Good Morning,
What is the "normal" temperatures for 1.4 GHz and what is the default CPU VCORE.
What will happen when I close my case?
By closing the case, with no extra fan -s inside and running a game the temp. reaches 73 C!
A second fan (I will place it today) can really
drop back the temp. to the 60 C (max -with case open) in the closed case?
Sorry for asking all those questions I am on my way now to find a better (quiter) CPU cooler.
Usually I do a lot of reading but with this noise breaking my ears you understand I am in emergency situation, lol!
Just discovered all the formatting options? :D
The default vcore for a 1.4gig is 1.75V, so we can work out a theoretical temperature - according to Radiate a Tbird running at 1400MHz and 1.75V produces 72.8W, and according to Joe's review of the WBK38 here (http://www.overclockers.com/articles355/) it has a C/W of 0.22. So multiplying the two together gives a temperature of 16C above ambient - even if you have very high ambient temps of 30C, that's still only 46C under load.
You say when you have the case open (so the air going to the heatsink should be room temperature) the temp is 53C, and as Asus Probe is probably about 10C high that means your actual temps are probably around 45C - pretty much what we'd expect given the cpu, heatsink and ambient temps as I said above. That means that the heatsink probably is sitting properly on the core.
OK, that's all sorted - now the problem is clearly case cooling, as we know the cpu cooler is doing its job properly. Adding an extra fan should help, but you'll need to make sure there is space for air to flow in your case. It'd really help to see a pic of your case - I don't suppose you have a link to a website with pictures of it, or access to a digital camera?
Thanks for all the compliments on the pics guys - I think the pic of all the cases took me about 4hrs to do! Like I said, I was bored... MS Paint is a clumsy tool but it's satisfying making it do what you want :)
Well I finally install the second fan -throws air out (bellow the PSU) and I close the case.
The max temperature (when running Matrix Payne, hehe nice game), as ASUS Probe utility shows is :
CPU 66 C
MB 43 C
After quick reboot I have noticed that BIOS temps. are +/- 2 C.
I am little worry 'cause the "hot" days are passed away..But they will return!
I don't know if those temps. are ok, but I will add a 2ond fan (in front, bellow the HDDs) to put air in.
Perhaps I must cut the cover of the new fan for better flow because the grill in the case is something like this in the photo (but with more holes).
I hate case cutting, especcially if we are talking for the front fan because I have a nice fat cover (and the sides of the case have grills on them).. But if it is a necessary process
and it will ensure me lower temps. perhaps I will do it.
Rob Cork
09-08-01, 04:40 PM
66C is getting better at least - and given that Asus Probe is very inaccurate, normally about 10C too high, you're probably closer to 55-60C, which is a lot better. One thing though - try to keep the airflow into the case and the airflow out roughly equal - at the moment you have the psu fan and the other fan blowing out, but no cool air being sucked in. That means those exhaust fans will be working extra hard trying to pull air into the case through cracks and holes, and they won't be doing very well. You said you were going to get another fan and mount it at the front, sucking in - that sounds like a good plan. You probably should cut away the grills though - otherwise there will be very little airflow even with the fans.
Take the fan out and hold it in your hand (careful!) while it is running, and feel all the air it blows out. Then feel the air being blown out when it's in the case. I bet it's a whole lot less. The objective is to try and get your airflow pattern like I've shown in the picture below (blue is for cold air, red for hot - pretty obvious really).
F34R my l337 MS Paint skillz!!! Hahahahah :D
(did I spell my l337 right?)
Wahoogie
09-08-01, 05:02 PM
The Glaciator is a great choice for cooling/noise. Under FULL load (prime95 for an hour) My highest temp is 45ΊC with my 900@1040. The only bad thing is that it is very heavy, and I recommend attaching it farther using zip-ties through the motherboard mounting holes near the CPU socket. My case cooling is actually fairly poor, 2 fans blowing in 1 blowing out through the PSU, so once I get some better airflow (or watercooling.... :) My temps should be in the low 40's. These temps are given with ASUS probe so if it really is high then my cooling is cool :)
Thanks for the tip Rob and the nice self -explained photo!
This is what I planning to do after I change my CPU cooler.
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