20041124 Update w/Pics! (56k beware!)

EDIT 2007/3/23: Here's the links to the updated gallery. For the broken image links (vBulletin restriction won't let me link to .aspx images, how lame).

http://eduncan911.com/photos/geek_stuff/tags/2004-11-22_5F00_Update/default.aspx

http://eduncan911.com/photos/geek_stuff/tags/2004-12-10_5F00_Update/default.aspx



The cooling upgrades
HWLabs Black Ice Xtreme III, (4) Denki 12cm fans, 1/2" ID MCMaster tubing, Danger Den TDX waterblock, D4 pump, T-Line (on inlet), ThermalTake Shark case.

The system
(see sig) + 1GB Corsair XMS DDRII 667, (2) WD Raptor 36GB 10k SATA in RAID 0, (2) Maxtor 200GB 7.2k in RAID 1, Promise SX4 S150 SATA Raid Controller w/256MB ECC cache, Plextor 12x SATA DVD-RW, (2) View Sonic 20.1" Pro Series 16ms LCDs, OEM by Dell - Altec Lansing ADA995 5.1 Surround w/dual 8" Subwoofer box


See more pics (and larger versions) at: http://eduncan911.com/photos/geek_stuff/tags/2004-11-22_5F00_Update/default.aspx



Stripped down and machined
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There's actually 1" over PSU, and 1.5" over DVD drive of space, with 1" on each side
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Completed!
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I went from one servers and three desktops at my peak over the last many years (9), to just using one single machine for everything. I even work fulltime, at home, on this machine. THat's why i went to the expense of the internals, and setup.

that is just beautiful! Amazing job! interesting case design, too. I have not seen that one before.

Wow, that's really slick looking. Isn't that fan over the psu really restricted though?

What is the foam like stuff on the top of the case, around where the shroud goes. And can we have a birds eye pic of the assembled case?

To answer a few questions before hand (trust me, I have lost a lot of sleep and been thinking, hard, about this for almost a month since I found this forum!). I had two other main ideas, but due to time (and this is my only system, and my "work" computer) I needed to get it done.


"Why did you put the fans so close to the PSU? Isn't there a restriction there?"

Yes, but the fans are currently spinning at 4.5V (very slowly) so to lesson the amount of air that would get restricted.

Spinning the fans this slowly is actually VERY quiet! Now I hear that whine from the pump people complain about. I will try out some foam over the next few weeks to quieten it down.

See next question about another reason for this mounting location...


"Are you pulling air out of the case, or pushing in?"

I'm blowing inwards. I did this for numerous reasons. Most importantly being I wanted positive case pressure so that air would escape from the side "shark" vents. This is because I have a cat. And they shed big time! I'm making a filter for the radiator today.

Another reason I am pulling air in is this case has raised the vented motherboard tray about 1" from the back of the case. Taking from an article I found here on the main site, cooling the back side of the mobo helps. So now after some additional cutting to the mobo tray and ducting, I now have a 1" tall, 22" wide vent of air cooling the back of the mobo.

And then there's that theory of "cooler outside air" then "using hot inside air". Even though I reversed polarity of the fans and only see a 1C difference, if that.


"Why in the hell did you use such an extremely large and overkill radiator for just the CPU?!?!?!"

Hehe. This is easy to answer: Future upgradability for the next few years to come. All I have to do is add in pelters, more waterblocks (GPU is next, next week), dual cpus, etc. I don't have to worry about the case or cooling again for some time to come!

The other reason is for such a large radiator is I get to spin the fans at a very low volume of air, to achieve the same cooling effect from the surface area compared to a normal 1 core radiator with faster moving fans (louder, push/pull). I tried out an 80mm HC with push/pull (stepped it up to 1/2" for my existing system). With them spinning at 10V, I could finally cool this VERY HOT Prescott 560 down to close what the other system was. And the fans were LOUD! This way, it's near whisper quiet... Except for that pump and front fan. I got to to slow down that front fan next (standard case fan, couldn't fit another Denki there).


"Why did you go with another case? You other one seemed fine."

The other case was another full tower. But it was metal. You see, the location my computer is at behind/under my desk makes it very hard to service. I have to just about lift it over my head to install and remove the main unit.

With the metal case, all HDs, and the previous cooling solution, the combination weighted close to 80lbs. That's fine for moving maybe once a year, but uh no!

This aluminum case, with all of the same hardware as before + new cooling system (and lighter system!), now weighs in at 37lbs! Mucho better!


"Why spend this much? You could have the same effect with an [insert large automotice HC here] and cheaper pump."

Eh, I like neatness and I had the money to spare.

I'm actually ordering a radiator more then twice as thick (same 120mm x 3 design) from Germany next week that I'll switch out. May get to spin the fans even slower, or disconnect one all togather (until more components are needed). Actually, this radiator from Germany is cheaper then 120 x 3 radiators here in the states! It just takes like 3 to 4 weeks to get here...

feyd83 said:

Wow, that's really slick looking. Isn't that fan over the psu really restricted though?

Click to expand...

Hehe. You asked before I could write that FAQs above. lol

sunrunner20 said:

What is the foam like stuff on the top of the case, around where the shroud goes. And can we have a birds eye pic of the assembled case?

Click to expand...

The foam is normal weather stripping tape you can get at Home Depot/Lowes. Comes in all sizes and colors. I used 3/8" wide, 1/4" thick gray (wanted black, but no black available). It's sticky on one side, so it's perfect for this application (stick to radiator, between fans, and onto case).

Birds eye view.. Yeah, it does look cool. I have it running now (typing on it for this message! hehe), but I'll try to clear off the glass desk (makes it easy to see down at the computer ).

Another FAQ from some local friends (over here at lunch):

"Why have the radiator removable, and why so much slack in the hoses?"

After reading a lot of horror stories about bleeding with a t-line, air pockets forming in the radiator mounted on top, having to rotate the case for hours/days to bleed the system, etc. I came up with an idea that lets me use a top mounted radiator, but simplifies bleeding.

Using the theory of "keep the t-line the highest point" like may others do with radiators at the bottom, this makes sense when bleeding the system. But after bleeding, air shouldn't move since there isn't any air moving around (minute amount really).

So this logic tells me I should be able to put the radiator very low (see pic below), bleed the system, cap under pressure (more on that in another thread), and then move the radiator to the top.


The results from my theory? It only took me 30 minutes to an hour to bleed the system completely! I think I figured out a trick. I'll post a link to the other thread here when I make it.

Edit: Here's the link to bleeding: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=345452

And "no" ackward tilting, moving case, etc. The waterblock didn't have to move either. I was just overly cautious during the system run test (see below):






...and one that will come up soon I'm sure here on ocforums:

"Why is the T-line on the Inlet of the pump, not the outlet?!?!"

From all of the liquid pumps I have installed over the years (hydrolics, automotive, etc), I have never heard of installing a bleeder after the pump. It's always before the pump. I didn't see a difference here and I'm sorry to say I blantly ignored the advice here on the forums of installing after the pump.

Perhaps this is why it took me only 30 minutes to bleed the system. And no "pinching" of the inlet hose either. Now, air did move past my T a lot. But severla cycle on/off and raising/lowering the radiator hoses (while system was off) bled air out VERY quickly! And, before the pump. I jsut fill the T-line up again and turn on the pump, it would suck it down! Fill again, etc...

Nice job duncan, that's a sharp looking case and cooling job

Haven't seen you in a little while, how's your new setup overclocking for you? That is some SATA seriousness there.... have you run 3DMark yet for some numbers?

mtb856 said:

Nice job duncan, that's a sharp looking case and cooling job

Haven't seen you in a little while, how's your new setup overclocking for you? That is some SATA seriousness there.... have you run 3DMark yet for some numbers?

Click to expand...

Hey! I've been around, posting mainly in the watercooling and extreme cooling areas, and a few others. I was going to back and post in my first original thread about my results from overclocking (didn't think it belonged here in watercooling).

Yep, the SATA drives are hauling ***. I need to do some speed testing, but don't know of a good application to test with. I got one from Japan I was goign to try, but it's limited to 14 days. Was going to wait until I figure out hte best overclock first.

As far as answering the overclocking issue, I have some board and PCI-X timing issues. Don't think it's a power thingy, but I'll get into detail in the standard forum.


As far as cooling, well the results speak for themselves:

Before @ 3.6Ghz (everything stock)
54C idle
69C load

Currently stable 3D gaming and benchmarks @ 4Ghz, still trying for more in another post
37C idle
42C load

[Cartman]Sweeeet[/Catman]

Nice setup, I love the way it looks.
If I may ask, why did you choose a seperate addon on card for your sata raids. If the Asus allready comes with the onboard raid.
Thanks

elec999 said:

Nice setup, I love the way it looks.
If I may ask, why did you choose a seperate addon on card for your sata raids. If the Asus allready comes with the onboard raid.
Thanks

Click to expand...

Simple answer is: Speed. I get to use 256MB of cache on the card. I can't see any onboard mobo solution exceeding or even matching this setup.

Actually the Asus mobo I have came with TWO SATA raid onboard controllers (total of 8 SATA ports!). One software, one hardware solution.

I can't see the reason for the D4 pumps .. I had one for 2 days and it drove me crazy.. The ehiem is silent ! nice setup though.

Eheim all the way for me! But I am not the type that is going to go around going "your pump suz0rz" becuase I am sure there are plunty of pumps better than eheims, although I don't know of any that are quieter than them.
And I also should have said this earlyer. Good setup, I hope I can get mine to look as tidy as yours.

is that case good... I was looking to buy one a couple months ago till I heard they are $180.

What case is it?

Webzta said:

I can't see the reason for the D4 pumps .. I had one for 2 days and it drove me crazy.. The ehiem is silent ! nice setup though.

Click to expand...

I originally bought it to save space. But that was before I got the case and realized I couldn't mount it at the bottom. I may try one of the others later on.

dj_2004 said:

is that case good... I was looking to buy one a couple months ago till I heard they are $180.

Click to expand...

ThermalTake disappointed me with this case. The front cover is near impossible to remove, just to clean the fan filter. While the case's shell is SUPER light (guys, we're only talking a few pounds here!), the front cover feels like a brick compared to the case (wants to tip over empty almost, forward). The side cover has this ackward one-off latching system. ThermalTake's other latching systems are far superior. The rear cheesy Expansion slot holder is, well, very cheesy compared to other no-screw solutions they have.

The most annoying fact: The HDs are push all the way back touching the case's shell: You have no room to route wires from front panel to mobo. I suppose they are guessing that you will only run one or two HDs in the upper bays. With some "tweaking" (i.e. cutting, swearing, drawing blood) I got my wires to route through that area.

It's like they outsourced this entire box and stamped their label on it. So I didn't feel so bad cutting up a $150 case. Once I did the top, and ran into "problems" during assembly, I simply took out the drill/plyers/vice-grip/hammer/etc.

If you're looking for a case, I got my ThermalTake V1000A I was about to put on eBay soon.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-133-105&depa=0

Seven fans, that you can not hear at full speed (they are those 2500rpm silent fans from ThermalTake). I mean it, it's too quiet you have to look down at the light to see if it's running.

eduncan911 said:

ThermalTake disappointed me with this case...<snip>...
It's like they outsourced this entire box and stamped their label on it. So I didn't feel so bad cutting up a $150 case. Once I did the top, and ran into "problems" during assembly, I simply took out the drill/plyers/vice-grip/hammer/etc.

Click to expand...

Thank you!

I've been looking at the Shark since they announced it. With a review like that I'm not even considering it.

Yeah thanks for the review.

dj_2004 said:

Yeah thanks for the review.

Click to expand...

Maybe I am just used to their ease-of-use in other cases I've owned by them. Don't get me wrong, the construction is very solid and professional (less the cheesy expansion slot holder) and very very rugged compared to any other aluminum case I've ever seen or assembled.

I think my standards are too high after my other case I had (listed above).


Btw, I went back and forth with the Shark series and this case by ThermalTake: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-133-137&depa=0

That one has a mirror coating finish, litterly like a mirror. Either silver or black. I went with the Shark series for the extra room about the power supply (taller), just in case I decided to mount it at the top. I'm glad I did now, cause that was my choice after getting the case.


[off-topic]
I actually thought about mounting the radiator standing straight up on the back of the case, just like the SwiftTech design with their RadBox. But the weight was too much when I started to think about the physics, and holding the entire assembly in my hand. Some brackets and drilling I dreamed up, but by then it was 11pm at night. It was time to do something. So I cut the top. Easiest thing I could do out of my three options (3rd option was a stand-alone mounting bracket that let the radiator and fans sit upright off to the side of the case).
[/off-topic]