2000 MHz??

[Henry Rollins II]

Hi all

anybody of u tested the new 2 Ghz P4? Is it a killer or is Intel still the slow Goliath who gets beaten the quick AMDavid?:D

Best of regards,
Henry.

[funnyperson1]

i havent tested it myself but apparently it beats the amd 1.4 in almost everything.....

[Phil]

It's still the same old core only faster, obviously if intel ramps up the core speed enough then the chip will be able to process data as fast as a tbird, but intel has basically rubbished the mhz as a measure of performance.

[TC]

The Northwood is not available yet. It will have 512K cache which should help it. I have my 1.7 overclocked to 2GHz and I would say with most things I do it would be about the equivalent of a 1.6-1.7GHz thunderbird. However my Athlon MP clocked at close to 1500 is almost as fast as my 2 gig P4.

[Bond_]

Yeah it will beat the athlon MP1.4Ghz but when oc to 2.2Ghz with a i850 or new based-sdram p4 i845 chipset!!!

[!!tio!!]

IMPOSSIBLE!!! P4 WILLAMATE IS DEAD!!

1st AMD can overclock so much that the 1.4 can reach more than 2Ghz

2nd AMD runs at DDR!! wat do p4 run at?

and AMD beats intel when they invented AMD K6!

[!!tio!!]

Intel for Server only!

[Ebola]

Originally posted by etomac
IMPOSSIBLE!!! P4 WILLAMATE IS DEAD!!

1st AMD can overclock so much that the 1.4 can reach more than 2Ghz

2nd AMD runs at DDR!! wat do p4 run at?

and AMD beats intel when they invented AMD K6!

eddie i think you should do some research before you post.

1. Yea a 1.4 athlon at 2ghz would constitute a rarity. you have to freeze the chip. I think the vapochill case might be able to do this. but then again it cost $700. with the same cooling a p4 would overclock very high as well.

2. p4's use rambus memory which is much faster than ddr. rambus runs at 800 mhz compared to ddr at 266mhz.

now if you want a athlon running at 2ghz fine. but you will have to buy all new parts every other month because you will certainlly kill alot of chips.

[Bond_]

eddie my friend compare to p42ghz @2.2ghz amd only still beat intel in a few tests
i'm waiting to see your amd 1.34 reach more than 2Ghz!!!
Do you read reveiws a don't think so!! take a look
oh by the way p4 runs rambus memory PC800Mhz and even can run DDR with the new i845-D and even Sd-ram all tipes
i815D - http://www.x86-secret.com
Don't forget that these test are with sd-ram i can wait to see it with the new chipset i845D
But i agree with you if the athlon get 1.6Ghz it will beat p4 again but don't think you'll get over 2Ghz with the MP

[TC]

Well first of all Etomac needs to review this post:

http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35503

I own all of the previously mentioned pieces of hardware. The thunderbird core cannot make it close to 2GHz being supercooled with a Vapochill - I know, I own both and I have tried. Anandtech recently reviewed the fastest available Athlon and that was 1.8GHz being supercooled below zero with a Vapochill. So the thunderbird core is probably never going to see anything beyond 1.7GHz air cooled, and almost certainly never 2GHz under any circumstances short of liquid nitrogen.

Now at 1.8GHz the thunderbird core performs about as well as a P4 clocked at 2.1GHz. I have tested both using a vapochill. As has been mentioned all over the net, the current P4 requires about a 300-350MHz lead in order to stay on par with the thunderbird core.

The Palomino core is a different story. Intel needs about a 450MHz lead to stay on par with this chip. As stated before I know because I have both - just look at my signature. The Palomino core, at least presently, doesn't overclock worth a crap. I can barely get mine past 1400 with air-cooling. I was able to overclock mine to 1600 with a vapochill, and that was giving my 2GHz P4 some trouble. They're talking about getting this up to 1.7 and 1.8GHz air-cooled - I think they've got some work to do.

AMD runs DDR - that means double data rate as in 2X. P4 runs QDR - that means quadruple data rate as in 4X. Somehow I get the feeling 4X is faster. And finally we have DDR ram - last time I checked DDR doesn't even come close to PC800 rdram on the i850 platform. But DDR folks can still say "Yeah but what about all that latency, huh?" That was an issue when rdram was paired with the P3 on the i820 platform, not the i850 platform (speed on i850 more than makes up for latency). Oh lets not forget that price issue. Rdram is so overpriced - $30 for 128MB of BRAND NAME rdram is just astronomical don't you think! My God, who can afford that?

It's amazing how people can become so obtuse when they get swept up in the brand war. And if you wish to call me an Intel fan, well just look at my sig - not all Intel by any means. I don’t blindly put my faith in one brand – I test the hell out of whatever I can get and I use what works the best for me. So if you’re super glued to the AMD brand, do us a favor and do a little homework before you come to this forum and post some nonsense just because you don’t like Intel.

I'll leave you with a handy little comparison from Sisoft - certainly not a tell all benchmark, but a quick reference. Pax.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jskinlaw/compare.jpg

[Ebola]

tc, you have a lot of people to straighten out. i hope you're up to the task.

[TC]

Originally posted by Ebola
tc, you have a lot of people to straighten out. i hope you're up to the task.

I'm not here to argue a brand war, and I don't plan to waste my time responding to people like Etomac anymore. There are some people that get so wrapped up in a brand name that they refuse to look at the facts. If it's not good for their brand then they just go into denial mode and spew out worthless crap as if it will help their "team." I used to be an all Intel guy, but when AMD came up with the Athlon I didn't stick up for Intel the way AMD fans stand up for AMD now. I adopted the Athlon and have been very happy with it, but the P4 is entering a new stage that looks promising. I plan to keep up with the progress, and if Intel puts out a good product I'll buy it. I'm searching for what works best for me, not cheering for a brand like I'm a drunken frat boy at a college football game. There will probably be some AMD folks jumping on my reply, but some people have more time to waste than I. Time will prove what's best, and I'll be there - what ever brand that is.

[!!tio!!]

hey! intel themselves hate willamate!

[!!tio!!]

and if you are talking about intel, i only support P3!!

and if you are talking about AMD.... I guess all!! (including 80286)

n i will use Intel or SUN microsystem if i m gonna to hav a SERVER!

n Mr. INTEL GUY! none of u here likes AMD?

[JetMech]

Originally posted by TC
The Northwood is not available yet. It will have 512K cache which should help it. I have my 1.7 overclocked to 2GHz and I would say with most things I do it would be about the equivalent of a 1.6-1.7GHz thunderbird. However my Athlon MP clocked at close to 1500 is almost as fast as my 2 gig P4. I just read a post from a member who has a 1.7/ 478 processor on an MSI board. Are you telling us that is not a northwood?

[JetMech]

Originally posted by etomac
and if you are talking about intel, i only support P3!!

and if you are talking about AMD.... I guess all!! (including 80286)

n i will use Intel or SUN microsystem if i m gonna to hav a SERVER!

n Mr. INTEL GUY! none of u here likes AMD? We like anything that processes. Just like some better than others. Sort of like the Ford and Chevy thing. I'll take a Ford if I have to but I prefer a Chevy.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by r_wesleyjr
I just read a post from a member who has a 1.7/ 478 processor on an MSI board. Are you telling us that is not a northwood?
just because it has 478 pins does not mean its a northwood, i believe the 2.1ghz chip will be the first norythwood.....

[Ebola]

I thought it went from 2 to 2.2 and they skipped 2.1.

I think 2.2 is the first northwood.

ahk I don't care. I probably wont by a new pc for atleast 3 more years.

[Bond_]

n Mr. INTEL GUY! none of u here likes AMD?
I don't have nothing againts AMD you just need to accept taht the new p4 beats athlon...
After testing the cel 1Ghz, will build a Amd system!!!!

[Phil]

Originally posted by Bond_

I don't have nothing againts AMD you just need to accept taht the new p4 beats athlon...
After testing the cel 1Ghz, will build a Amd system!!!!

The new p4 isn't even out yet and when it is I would not say it was better than an athlon. It will likely be faster but that speed will come at a price and amd will still win on price performance.

[CrystalMethod]

Originally posted by etomac
and if you are talking about intel, i only support P3!!

and if you are talking about AMD.... I guess all!! (including 80286)

n i will use Intel or SUN microsystem if i m gonna to hav a SERVER!

n Mr. INTEL GUY! none of u here likes AMD?
I have nothing against AMD, I just personally prefer Intel because they run cooler, and in my opinion, more stable. planning on building an AMD system to play with later this year. But after having been around here for a few months, I have no real favorite brand. I'm just into which will run stable, and I don't have to worry about. Brands mean almost nothing anymore. What ever can can get the most bang for the buck, run stable, without going to extremes for cooling is the CPU for me.

[funnyperson1]

my next chip will be an intel, why? because i overclock, and i have a p4 compliant psu heading my way, and its only 300watts, and i wont shell out 40bucks to properly cool my cpu, and i dont like watercooling, and i have used intel all my life, however if i had the money right now, i would go out and get an amd, but since ill probly wait till i get to college to upgrade(im a junior)....ill ptobly be able to afford a northwood if prices keep going down like this......i like things that will last, ive heard too many stories of people breaking their athlons with 2pound heatsinks to even go near them....just my opinion......id rather spend 160 dollars on something that will last me 10years, than 90 on something that will last me 2 years........the way i look at it, i wont be able to tell the difference.....i cant tell the difference between sony and bose, i cant tell the difference between Rage128 3D quality and geforce 3D quality(i can between geforce and rage128 2D however...crappy geforce2s:().....and a couple megaflops or 5fps wont make a difference to me..........

[TC]

Originally posted by r_wesleyjr
I just read a post from a member who has a 1.7/ 478 processor on an MSI board. Are you telling us that is not a northwood?

That's exactly right. The 478 pin cpu's that are available now are still .18 micron willys. The Northwood core is based on .13 micron construction and has 512K L2 cache versus willy's 256K.

[Max Payneguin]

Originally posted by Ebola


eddie i think you should do some research before you post.

1. Yea a 1.4 athlon at 2ghz would constitute a rarity. you have to freeze the chip. I think the vapochill case might be able to do this. but then again it cost $700. with the same cooling a p4 would overclock very high as well.

2. p4's use rambus memory which is much faster than ddr. rambus runs at 800 mhz compared to ddr at 266mhz.

now if you want a athlon running at 2ghz fine. but you will have to buy all new parts every other month because you will certainlly kill alot of chips.

Well, even though Rambus is clocked at 800MHz, it transfers the same as DDR, which is 1600MB/s. It is also said that Rambus has higher latency, but I can't back that up and would concider that a moot point for now. The reason that DDR on the P4 sux so much is that Rambus is implemented in dual channel, so it is effectively 3200MB/s. The I845 is only a single channel solution, so if it was dual channel, it could achieve 4200MB/s with PC2100DDR.

Now, I'm not AMD biased, as the P4 at 2GHz does beat AMD's finest at a majority of the tests. The AthlonMP (Palamino) O/C'd to 1.4GHz is able to keep up, but not beat the P4 2GHz (according to [H]ard|OCP's test). So, I'll imagine a Palamino 1.53 will match a P4 2GHz and maybe win a few benchmarks. AMD really should act fast as Northwood is right around the corner. Right now, Intel can't really scale the P4 higher on 0.18 micron, but once Northwood comes out, there's no stopping them until around 3.5 - 4GHz.

[TC]

Originally posted by Max Payneguin


Well, even though Rambus is clocked at 800MHz, it transfers the same as DDR, which is 1600MB/s. It is also said that Rambus has higher latency, but I can't back that up and would concider that a moot point for now. The reason that DDR on the P4 sux so much is that Rambus is implemented in dual channel, so it is effectively 3200MB/s. The I845 is only a single channel solution, so if it was dual channel, it could achieve 4200MB/s with PC2100DDR.

Now, I'm not AMD biased, as the P4 at 2GHz does beat AMD's finest at a majority of the tests. The AthlonMP (Palamino) O/C'd to 1.4GHz is able to keep up, but not beat the P4 2GHz (according to [H]ard|OCP's test). So, I'll imagine a Palamino 1.53 will match a P4 2GHz and maybe win a few benchmarks. AMD really should act fast as Northwood is right around the corner. Right now, Intel can't really scale the P4 higher on 0.18 micron, but once Northwood comes out, there's no stopping them until around 3.5 - 4GHz.

I'd like to see AMD tool up for .13 micron as quickly as possible. If Intel gets as good a yield on the Northwood as they are with Tualatins, they have a good chance to run off and leave AMD hanging. If AMD can get their .13 micron fab going quickly enough then we have a more competitive market in the coming year.

[Burning Phoenix]

I have to say up till a few months ago i never liked AMD mostly for the high temps. But I began reading tons of reviews and benchmarks and i had to back down and face the fact they were faster. I am still an Intel fan and believe they have a master plan involved with this new P4 design. Well now the 2.0 came out i started to see benchmarks were finally being able to pass the AMD scores. To some of you above who are still stuck on one brand or another i tend to watch what TC says about the 2 companies for the reason of owning many systems of both types.

A final note from an Intel fan.
I have accepted the fact AMD has been faster for the past year or so BUT now that Intel has there 2.0 out and more to come lets see what happens now.