3D modeling- need a new card.

[MadSkillzMan]

ok guys, i do alotta work in 3dsmax, combustion, after effects, which require openGL. i am a dual monitor person, and id like to use tripple soon as im doing independant film special FX. im kind of a 1 man team here, and my lousy SiS xabre is just god awful for anything. i dont know why such a peice of crap exists, moreso why did i even get it?

anyways im not a gamer...quake 3 is all i need...i was hoping for a matrox , but those are REALLY pricey, so are there any cheaper soloutions?

also, those 3rd party nock off cards? like the power color-ATI or stuff like that, those are alrght from what i heard from my friends compared to the real deal, what do u guys think?

also, a freind of mine has the ati 9800, and its HORRIBLE in 3Dsmax, doesnt matter if its openGL or direct3D, it just plain out SUCKS.

[Nandro]

NV cards kick ass at 3d rendering and the quadro. If you look into it a bit I think riva tuner can convert the fx5900 into the quadro fx3000. I could be wrong, but in any case I think 3dmax is the only prog that uses d3d and most others use OGL so that its more compatible with other OS's.

[MadSkillzMan]

3dsmax can use openGl..my options are openGL, D3D (DX9.0/8.1) or Software which im currently using :( but, luckily backburner allows for network rendering, which im building a 2k cluster for it, so video card rendering isnt exactly what im after. but for on screen i need it to handle nicely. this thing renders darn fast though, sometimes i can get near realtime if im using a DV video in the backround...go figure

thanks nanbro.

[cetoole]

You can also softmod Radeon cards into the FireGL equivilants, the 9600 mods to the FireGL T2, while the 9800 is the X2.

[MadSkillzMan]

whats the benefit of this?

[Cerberus2k7]

GeForce FX5900

I do 3D rendering also :D

[Aphex_Tom_9]

Alot of the actual rendering is through the CPU, so creating a cluster for network rendering would do you better than just a different video card.
I use 3dsmax fairly regularly, just for fun though.
I did find that going from a ti4600 to a 9800xt improved the pre-render work time in the GUI, but i noticed faster rendering with an overclocked cpu.

[Cerberus2k7]

Rendering is VERY GPU intensive. And when going through the viewports in Max or Maya, it will really strain your GPU. Normal viewport nav. is GPU, and the actual rendering is GPU and CPU.

[Aphex_Tom_9]

Rendering is VERY GPU intensive. And when going through the viewports in Max or Maya, it will really strain your GPU. Normal viewport nav. is GPU, and the actual rendering is GPU and CPU.
right, a better vid card will certianly help in the viewport work, i noticed that, but wont do that much in render times.

[Dc5e]

I would just get a 9600 or 9800 and softmod it to their FireGL equivalents. The drivers make quite a difference when you softmod it. I remember reading an article comparing the performance between a normal 9600 and a softmodded 9600 in 3d rendering programs, and the softmodded one pulls ahead quite a bit.

[Cerberus2k7]

a 5900 has been known to beat out the fireGL cards in 3Ds Max.

[{PMS}fishy]

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2307

Thats if you are looking for a real 3D card.

[MadSkillzMan]

what is so great about this fireGL you guys keep mentionng?

[Nandro]

thats like ati's equivilent of the quadro see:
http://www.ati.com/products/fireglt2-128/index.html
for the FireGL-T2
But the NV cards have consistantly beat the ATI cards in the workstation department unless that has changed recently due to their superior OGL drivers.
Here is the conclusion on some last gen cards from TomsHW:
http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040323/opengl-fx1100-x2t-14.html

I think Riva can strap the 5900xt to a quadro with just software and would save you a ton of dough.

[MadSkillzMan]

how do these compare to a matrox? big turn off here is the fact none support more than 2 monitors (i know im crazy but yea, it makes life 10x easier with 3)

ill probably score a cheap 5900 from ebay or something..onea the 3rd party ones...then softmod it as u guys are telling me.

[larva]

thats like ati's equivilent of the quadro see:
http://www.ati.com/products/fireglt2-128/index.html
for the FireGL-T2
But the NV cards have consistantly beat the ATI cards in the workstation department unless that has changed recently due to their superior OGL drivers.
Here is the conclusion on some last gen cards from TomsHW:
http://www20.graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040323/opengl-fx1100-x2t-14.html

I think Riva can strap the 5900xt to a quadro with just software and would save you a ton of dough.

Yes, equivalent in name only. People that like ATI swear up and down that their driver compatibility is as good as Nvidia, but it is apps like 3DSMax (or most other apps slightly out of the mainstream) that show this simply is not true.

[MadSkillzMan]

alright, nvidia it is.

i just spent ALL NITE bypassing the particle issue....turns out 3dsmax and particles just SUCK...so then it took me all night to learn realflow, how to export into max7 which i was told DOES NOT work but if u read closely all max 6 plugins work with 7...so now its 2am, i got the tools i need to finish thie little project...once i render in realflow, put in max, my renders go above realtime again (cuz RF handles the particles and sorts them out)

thanks guys...as soon as i can ill get a 5900...i planon watercooling this rig first off..the DIY WBs n such. thanks

[Cerberus2k7]

particles have been good to me so far. You running Brazil with that puppy?

[MadSkillzMan]

alright, what the heck is brazil? ive heard it A TON of times now. im not very expereinced with max, i just started getting into it and im not doing bad.

[Cerberus2k7]

Brazil is a third party rendering plugin. Its really bad ass. You should try it.

[MadSkillzMan]

for osme reason oc didnt notify me of a response.

i have now gotten brazil, I FRIGGEN LOVE IT.

i just leanred how to turn a 2D scene into a 3D environment (for my video SPFX).

I think im gonna score a 3rd party 5900 and have it softmoded. ATM i cannot complain about render times too much. Brazil is definently below realtime, yet i still kick the crap outta single CPU machines with 2.4ghz. What does that mean? i wanna score some fast XPs, mod em to MPs. MORE RAM definently.

my problem is just that the veiwport work causes crashes like crazy.

cerberus, what other progs you use? id try cinema4d and maya, but neither run on here (they both crash upon startup) Is there a render client for brazil that runs under linux/bsd? its too bad windows doesnt have a text only version that can run the brazil client. there would be more resources.

god i wish 3dsmax was for mac, im moving to mac in a year or so after these few movies i do.

[Aphex_Tom_9]

Im a huge fan of the Brazil rendering system for 3dsmax. i also use some finalrender plugins for particle lighting and some materials. look at some of my stuff here- http://perfekt-defekt.deviantart.com/gallery/
(it goes on for a few pages)

[MadSkillzMan]

those are friggen awsome. i was thinking of signing up at devart..i dont really have anything to show off...YET...i was starting my own site of just basic video tutorials..i was hoping my bro would contribute his 3d knowledge.

aphex tom, have you ever tried putting a 3d object into a 2d image? so that it all interacts and such? reason is, we wanted to do it with video...you use a shadow/matte as the material, which allows the basic geometry scene to basically be transparent. i just wanted to know how well it worked with moving objects so we could do full out matrix trails and a rotating camera.

[deathman20]

Only certian programs take advantage of the GPU depending on the make of the GPU and the compatibility of the software using it for rendering purposes for the final image. View port is related to GPU/CPU time which for complex objects and things can get rather loaded down quickly. But have to agree the nVidia cards are the best that come in that field for OpenGL viewport rendering at least. ATI & nVidia are pretty close on the direct3d ones if not mistaken, but not as stable as OpenGL.

I know I want to get back into the whole 3D thing. I use to be a big player with it back in Max4/5 days. Havn't really played with it much since don't have access to it anymore and if I did buy it, I'd have to quit my addiction to MMO's quickly, which I still got a couple months before I'll be forced to give up anyways with commitments and such.

[MadSkillzMan]

Aphex tom maybe you can help me out.

Im trying to do this: http://www.3dcafe.com/asp/tutorials/max/integrating/integrating.asp

in brazil, but it simply doesnt work, as in the matte/shadow bitmap i use does not receive shadows. if i set it to anything else it does....any ideas?

[MadSkillzMan]

ok, for some unknown reason, maya just crashes when i open it. anyway to confirm its the card?

i was thinking of getting a second hand matrox parhelia

[priest_ridden]

I personally would recommend the quadro 700. I just got one and it performs very nicely in 3ds max. I've also had the quadro 750 gl, and softmodded the ati 9600 into a fireGL. The 700 works better then both of my other cards. So, if you have the money, mine was around 500, it should be a good card for you.

[EZ-Spidey]

Hey MadSkillzMan!

I'm just an enthusiast/novice with Maya but I'll gladly share some of the experiences
I've had with the few cards I used.

First 'hardcore card' I ever bought and was Parhelia (had a friend back then working
in the Matrox engineer lab and got me one for less then 1/2 the retail price).

Only running dual monitor so I never took advantage of the triple head. For what I
did which was 2D graphics, it was great but also overkill. It was the 256MB version
and I got it for less then the 128MB version.

That card, despite the 'official Matrox drivers for 3D/CAD' did not cut it when I started
to learn Maya PLE. Lots of issues in the viewport and massive slow downs.

I ended up dumping it on eBay and got what I still think was the best 3D/Maya budget
card, a Ti-4600. Never had any issues with it, great card for its value.

Then I started to play games a little more so I got a 5900U for cheap off a friend who
wanted a 9800XT badly. I had one minor Maya issue with it and it was some of the
polys loosing their assigned colors when I moved a viewport onto monitor #2.

Just recently, I sold a bunch of old stuff I had to put together a new budget dually
mainly dedicated for Maya. I found a BFG 6800U OC for the same price has a GT so I
took it. That card runs great minus the usual issues of running Maya on 2 screens.

I know there's no 3D MAX anywhere in there (yet!) but I would say unless your sure
the Parhelia will play nice with MAX, don't get it.

Hope it helps!

[deathman20]

Well I ran tests for someone else the other day. My X800 card does about 4FPS in a single viewport with 750,000 polys on scene. With 4 viewports up its 3 in the wireframe ones and 2 with the poly one.

Truely graphic cards won't help with the extreme size of some scenes at all. You just have to make sure you have adaptive settings set on objects so it doesn't kill viewport rendering time. If you want faster put the objects to boxes or hide them when your not working on them.

ATI released a newer card recently for the graphics market and actually there high end cards where doing extremely well, even better then the nVidia cards. But of course they probley cost 600-700 easy and probley more. Heres a Tomshardware review of it.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050223/index.html
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2335&p=5
It does stack up nicely with other cards but truely you don't see those type of numbers working with huge scene files.

Also as someone mentioned before about GPU/CPU rendering. Since GPU's don't help unless its a spesific task, mainly with the DirectX textures features video cards can help rendering time, but with actual rendering check this out.
http://www.art-render.com/comparisons.ihtml?step=2&startnum=3&maxvalue=3&groupid=5
If you want a true boost in rendering time this is your answer. Imagine just a few computers, and a couple of these cards. They cost alot but think about how much a load of computers cost to run a renderfarm and the power/heat that they use/put out.

Edit Added More Links

[deathman20]

Also if looking for tutorials on doing things, and if you neeed help check out www.3d-palace.com

Great site, has free video tutorials on how to make things. Also a great member base to help out with those tricks and such that you can't seem to nail correctly.

[MadSkillzMan]

thanks guys,

see i was only leaning towards matrox, because i do video editing alot more, and combustion and premiere like matrox cards