P4 478pins overclocking potential...

[Geo Ios]

Which Pentium 4 478pins has the highest overclocking potential?
I wan't easily to reach 2.0GHz.
I recently bought MSI 845Pro 2....

[funnyperson1]

get the 2.2ghz northwood when it comes out....that should be able to go up to at least 2.5 2.6

[JetMech]

Originally posted by Geo Ios
Which Pentium 4 478pins has the highest overclocking potential?
I wan't easily to reach 2.0GHz.
I recently bought MSI 845Pro 2.... Pricewise I would say the 1.7. I don't Know how far back Intel went but the 1.7 has been getting to 2.0. The 1.8 will probably get there easier but will cost more. I don't know if you understand the stepping thing with Intel processors but the 478's should be better than the 423's in the same MHZ rating.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by r_wesleyjr
Pricewise I would say the 1.7. I don't Know how far back Intel went but the 1.7 has been getting to 2.0. The 1.8 will probably get there easier but will cost more. I don't know if you understand the stepping thing with Intel processors but the 478's should be better than the 423's. make sure you request the "Northwood" version.

northwood only comes in flavors of 2.1 or higher.......

[JetMech]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


northwood only comes in flavors of 2.1 or higher....... Thanks for the correction. I picked up on the error reading a post from TC earlier and forgot to come back and make the correction.:o

[DocLiv]

I have a P4 2.0 478 on a ABIT TH7II-RAID mobo. I have O/Ced it to 2.4 so far. I also have a 1.7 423 that will reach 2040 stable and will post @2125.:)

[funnyperson1]

not bad....

[Geo Ios]

Well, i think it's a shame to place a northwood on an MSI 845 Pro 2. Intel's i845 chipset will destroy an excellent cpu! I am thinking of buying a Pentium 4 1.6 or 1.7GHz and when i decide to buy a Northwood i will buy a mainboard with the i850 chipset. Rambus is the best for P4, DDR is cheaper but it isn't as fast as the Rambus when it comes to memory bandwidth' s issues...
what do you think guys?

[TC]

Originally posted by Geo Ios
Well, i think it's a shame to place a northwood on an MSI 845 Pro 2. Intel's i845 chipset will destroy an excellent cpu! I am thinking of buying a Pentium 4 1.6 or 1.7GHz and when i decide to buy a Northwood i will buy a mainboard with the i850 chipset. Rambus is the best for P4, DDR is cheaper but it isn't as fast as the Rambus when it comes to memory bandwidth' s issues...
what do you think guys?

Personally I would hold off for a Northwood core. I can't say a whole lot being under NDA, but it will overclock quite nicely. The extra L2 cache makes a difference too. What bugs me is the lack of i850 socket 478 boards. The i845 just doesn't cut it. It is designed to make very good use of DDR, probably even better than the P4X266, but who knows when that combination will see the light of day. Right now I would wait for an i850 socket 478 board and a northwood. Pairing a P4 with sdram is a joke. And don't be confused by the new socket 478 - the ones you can buy right now are NOT Northwoods. They're nothing more than willys using the new pin out. If you just have to buy something right now get a 1.7 gig. The socket 478 1.7's virtually guarantee 2GHz.

In edit - earlier I said wait on a sock 478 i850 board. I forgot that Abit has the TH72 which looks to be a great board. That's the only one out now that I know of except for the Intel board, and of course you can't overclock with it unless you have an unlocked engineering sample.

[Geo Ios]

Yes, i know TC. There is a slight detail though...as i've writen above, i allready have an MSI 845 PRO 2 to play with, i didn't buy it though exactly, it was a nice present from a distributor in my country who wanted me to test the board so that i can tell them my opinion about it...and so i am stuck with it...and it is really pretty with it's red pcb...

[batboy]

Here is a question about the P-4 socket 478 that I would like to know the answer to. Will a Northwood P-4 work in a current socket 478 motherboard (such as the i850)? Possibly with a BIOS upgrade or something? Or are the rumors true that the new .13 micron P-4 will require a different motherboard chipset?

[TC]

Originally posted by batboy
Here is a question about the P-4 socket 478 that I would like to know the answer to. Will a Northwood P-4 work in a current socket 478 motherboard (such as the i850)? Possibly with a BIOS upgrade or something? Or are the rumors true that the new .13 micron P-4 will require a different motherboard chipset?

Northwood will work fine in current s-478 boards. They will only need a bios update. No new chipset required.

[Baboo]

Anyone know when the northwoods are comming out?

[batboy]

Thanks, I was hoping that the new socket 478 was Intel's way of opening up the P-4 upgrade path a little. They sort of got cussed at by me and others for the socket 423 because it was going to be obsolete so soon and there was no upgrade path for it. Pure marketing ploy in the battle against AMD.

Yep, looks like it's almost time to invest in an Abit TH7-II Raid motherboard and some RDRAM. Been wanting to buy one of those new Antec SX635 cases and to start building me a mega killer gamer system. But first things first, a new GeForce 3 video card is next.

[batboy]

I heard the Northwoods might be released in "a couple of months" and probably for sure before the holidays.

In my opinion, if you're really keen on building a P-4 rig right now, get a Asus or Abit socket 478 i850 motherboard (or wait for the VIA P4X266 chipset) and a 478 pin P-4 1.5 gig CPU. These chips are a bargain at $160 and should overclock at least 1.7 or 1.8 gig and maybe as much as 2 gig.

Then replace the old Willimette P-4 with a Northwood P-4 in a few months when the prices are a little more affordable. Maybe the old P-4 can be quickly sold to recoop some cash? Of course, don't forget to budget for RDRAM (or DDR if hoping for VIA chipset) and a nice case with a hefty power supply.

[TC]

First Northwood should hit the streets in November. Asus doesn't have an i850 s-478 mobo yet that I know of, but it's in the works. If you buy now get the Abit TH7II.

[batboy]

TC, I stand corrected about the Asus motherboards. I mistakenly thought the new Asus P4B was a i850, but turns out it's only a i845 chipset. Sounds like you know your P-4 guano, dude. I'm sure Asus will have a socket 478 i850 motherboard out very soon, though.

Now that the heatsink retainer system is different for the socket 478 motherboards, does anyone know of some good CPU coolers that will fit or are there even any good ones on the market yet? I'm having trouble finding a good socket 478 cooler while surfing the internet, maybe socket 478 still too new.

This will be fun putting a P-4 system together, I was having trouble making myself wait until later this winter to build me a new system. Was getting the shakes because it's been a while since I did a major upgrade. Besides, my computer was getting it's butt kicked recently by all the evil speedy AMD machines.

I already have a buyer who is willing to give me a fair price for my current P-III system (minus most of the drives). Ok folks, 2 gig P-4 here I come (oh boy). It'll take me probably about a month to buy all the components (already have the GeForce 3 card in the budget). So, here is my dream P-4 computer specs (subject to change). Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated.

Antec SX635 case with 350w power supply
Abit TH7-II Raid socket 478 motherboard
Intel P-4, socket 478, 1.5 gig CPU (overclocked of course)
512 meg of RDRAM memory (2 sticks of 256 meg)
GeForce 3 AGP video card
faster CD burner than my old HP 4X unit
Kenwood True-X CD-ROM drive
dual RAID configured 40 gig IBM 7200 rpm harddrives
Soundblaster X-gamer 5.1 sound card
US Robotics 56k Performance Pro modem
Microsoft wheel mouse and force feedback joystick
The typical cooling mods (case fans, thermal paste, etc.)
oh yeah, guess I better throw in a 3.5" floppy drive
and if I have any money left over... 19" Sony Trinitron

[JetMech]

Originally posted by TC
First Northwood should hit the streets in November. Asus doesn't have an i850 s-478 mobo yet that I know of, but it's in the works. If you buy now get the Abit TH7II. Right. The P4B is out with i845 but no i850 yet. I refuse to even acknowledge the i845. Intel is really getting over on the power user. Before the manufacturers can ramp up a product, sintel is changing the standard to something else. I have bought 8 motherboards in the last 3 years trying to stay current. Rambus to me is the top of the memory chain as is i850. I don't go northwood until I can put it on an Asus i850 board. I'm through rantin fellows:D .

[batboy]

I agree with you about the i845 chipset. The only good thing I can say, is it will be cheap to buy and you probably already own the RAM or else it's cheap too. Trouble is, SDRAM is too slow for the P-4 and has too much performance loss. However, DDR memory mught be a good compromise between the extremes, if you're on a tight budget. Here is a quote from an AnandTech article:

Of course, the 1.06GB/s of memory bandwidth offered by PC133 is not nearly enough for the 3.2GB/s FSB of the Pentium 4, so expect at least a 20% performance hit over i850. Some motherboard manufacturers are even anticipating a greater than 20% performance hit. Clearly, the i845 is not designed to improve the Pentium 4's performance, but rather make the P4 more accessible to the mainstream and value markets.

[Baboo]

I thought the new Asus P4T uses the 850 chipset. Am I wrong?

[batboy]

Yes, the Asus P4T uses an Intel 850 chipset, but for the older P-4 socket 423, not the brand new socket 478, at least not yet.

[TC]

Originally posted by Baboo
I thought the new Asus P4T uses the 850 chipset. Am I wrong?

The P4T does use the i850, but it's not a socket 478 board - it's the "older" s-423. These guys are looking for a new s-478 i850 board. The P4B is an i845 s-478 board.

The i845 makes no sense to me at all. Save a couple bucks on ram while choking your performance. The P4 was designed with high bandwidth in mind. It depends on that and as much as people hate rambus it does deliver for the P4, and now it's much more reasonably priced.

I ordered a TH7II and I'll give it a whirl. Hopefully Asus will produce a nice 478 board pretty soon. I suspect they'll wait until we get closer to the release of the Northwood in November.

[batboy]

Dang yer hide TC, you're beating me to the punch here... lol. Actually, I'm glad. I'm going to order a new GF3 card and my new Antec SX635 P-4 case first. This will allow you enough time to determine if the TH7II is up to the task. Somehow, I think it will be. My last 3 Abit motherboards have been great.

[TC]

Originally posted by batboy
Dang yer hide TC, you're beating me to the punch here... lol. Actually, I'm glad. I'm going to order a new GF3 card and my new Antec SX635 P-4 case first. This will allow you enough time to determine if the TH7II is up to the task. Somehow, I think it will be. My last 3 Abit motherboards have been great.

:) I forgot to suggest you might want to upgrade that psu just a bit - maybe go to 400 watts if you plan to have a lot of drives and fans in your new box. Of course my P4 system has a 350 enermax, and I'm running a cdrw, dvd, two hdd drives in raid, and two 120mm fans and it seems to be fine. I always like to get a good psu when I have the chance - just in case I need it down the road.

The Abit board looks pretty good. Have you read any reviews? Those new overclocking strips look interesting.

[CrystalMethod]

Ok, anyone besides me actually seen the 478 socket? It's TINY! The first gen P4's will definately not fit into that socket.

Socket 478
http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/images/ax4t-b.jpg


Socket 423
http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/images/Ax4bspro-b.jpg

No, this is not a plug for Aopen stuff, it's just what I work with everyday. I work for an Aopen retail distributor.

[TC]

Yeah it's small alright. All the pins are directly below the core now. I suppose this cuts costs and adds stability from the shorter distance from pin to core.

[Kool_Aid]

I've been running an Abit TH7II for a couple of weeks now, and so far, all is good.

I am running a 1.7 O/C'd to 1.95.

If I try to go higher on the FSB I lose my Hard Drive.

I have it coupled with 512 Mb Rambus, and an Asus G3.

I just moved up from a P3/933 with 512 SDram and a G2..........and the difference is incredible.

Pretty good 3dmark2001 score..............HERE (http://gamershq.madonion.com/compare2k1.shtml?1616952)

Any idea how I can get to the 118 FSB, without losing my HD?

[Geo Ios]

Well, from my experience there is a slight detail that all of you should pay attention to.
The i845 is not really a bad chipset, it costs less than the i850 and it provides exactly the same results (Quake III arena for example) at 1600 x 1200 x 32bit as the i850 chipset.
I get 95,6Fps at Q3A (Det4, HQ, all texture details full, verything full!)with my Gainward GeForce 3 (220core and 520 memory) and my 933MHz Pentium III!
Tell me, which system can beat this?
I don't want to play at 1024x 768 or 1280x 1024 anymore....why the need for the extra bandwidth that Rambus or DDR provides?
I will soon buy a Pentium 4 1,6GHz (478) but i really believe that i don't need such processing power right now, it's just hype, but i like it!
The vga card do all the work when playing at such high resolutions, and buying a GeForce III seems like a better choise than buying a Pentium 4 2GHz!
It's really my opinion though

[Geo Ios]

...mainboards?
Well from my experiences (i'm a technical editor) the ASUS mainboards seems to be the best.
Mainboards from Abit or MSI come to second place in my opinion...but is is my opinion of course.... and i believe that the i845 will sell like hell...like i440BX i believe, why not?

[batboy]

While I agree there will be a lot of i845 motherboards bought by people on a real tight budget, on the other hand, I have to agree with TC and Wesley. For those of us that can afford a little extra cash, especially since P-4 prices and RDRAM prices are down right now, why not spend just a little extra for the extra performance? I'm a gamer and an overclocker and a tweaker geek, so the choice is quite obvious for me. More speed!

The trouble is, Intel is pulling a fast one with the i845 chipset. It's already set up to work with either SDRAM or DDR memory, but Intel refuses to allow use of DDR until first quarter 2002. Now DDR is much faster and does make more sense then SDRAM, but Intel probably has some shady deal with RAMBUS, plus Intel is now sueing over the brand new VIA P4X266 chipset that could use DDR memory if released. Lots happening on the P-4 scene right now.

[CrystalMethod]

Been building a lot more p4 systems at work lately. Seems like they're catching on. The problem is, the only OS that can really USE the p4 is XP, and that hasn't really caught on just yet. Give it a few months and see how things go, cause it looks like Intel really wants to give AMD some serious competition in the 1GHz+ market now. Celeron 1.1 Ghz? P4's to be jumping in 200 Mhz steps instead of 100 Mhz? Gonna be one hell of a year, CPU wise.

[Geo Ios]

Well, although i am not neither AMD or Intel fan i must admit that both companies are working really fast for the shake of the consumers...he he...we are buying processors with the lowest cost than ever....but have you read the Tom's hardware review about nowdays processor's heat protection?...Seems like Intel's CPU are really quality products and...the safest of all....

[DocClock aka MadClocker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that "northwood" was the codename of the 845 chipset.....am I in error?

[Geo Ios]

The new i845 was codenamed "Brookdale"...Northwood is the new Pentium 4 with the 478pins that is built with 0,13 micron process and implements 512kb L2 cache.

[Overclockers]

can anyone tell me what will the price be....? i mean for p4 northwood.

thanx

[DocClock aka MadClocker]

Thanks for the enlightenment...I haven't been keeping up on my tech reading lately,
as far as price goes, the P4 478-1.7 looks promicing and cheaper than a 1.2g PIII according to pricewatch.com

And I also think the 1.7 will do 2g with the stock sink (IMO)

[batboy]

I'm going for a 478 pin 1.5 gig P-4 and seeing if I can wring 2 gig out of it. The 1.5 gig chips are selling for $150 to $160 US. That's less than I paid for my P-III. Currently, the 2 gig Willimette P-4 processors are still selling for over $600, I think. My guess is that the new Northwood P-4 will initially sell for at least that and probably more. Once Northwood production ramps up, say goodbye to the trusty P-III. Exciting times for overclockers.

[Geo Ios]

Well, i feel that things are geting a little bit confusing, who's gonna buy a Tualatin and why?
Pentium 4 seems to be the best buy right now (1.6 & 1.7GHz), Celerons seem to be excellent low cost processors (not as good as Durons but at overall system rating i would go with Intel) , so why the room for the Tualatins?

[batboy]

The tualatin chips will soon become the new Celeron once the Northwood production ramps up and Intel kills the old P-III and the old Celeron line and the old Willimette P-4. Intel is dedicated to switching over entirely to 0.13 micron cores by first quarter of 2002.

[Geo Ios]

Hmmm...i guess you are right but that chip costs a lot...and with the 512kb L2 cache even more!!!
I guess it will cost two times the Duron (MHz to MHz)! So how could that be the chip for the lowest cost systems?

[TC]

Originally posted by Geo Ios
Hmmm...i guess you are right but that chip costs a lot...and with the 512kb L2 cache even more!!!
I guess it will cost two times the Duron (MHz to MHz)! So how could that be the chip for the lowest cost systems?

When Intel renames the Tualatin the celeron it will not have 512K of cache, and they will price it the same as current celerons.