Building A Server... Need Input/Help!!!!

So I just got a random assignment from my boss to look into buying (or building a new server). Here's what I have been told as requirements:

It will be a dedicated SQL server... running SQL2000, Windows Server (2k or 2k3), and some custom software codenamed 'Alpha' (I know, a real creative name ) that will be using that data... nothing else! The data stored will be millions of pages of files.

Our current server is a dually XEON 2.8 GHZ HT, running this and another program called Cycle that uses a seperate database. I have been shown, when fully operational, both programs running simultaneously brings the server to its knees. Alpha is taking up 65% of all processing power resources, causing Cycle to have a lot of performance issues.

The idea is the leave the current server running Cycle and the new server will run Alpha.

So basically I need a powerful server that will not choke under heavy stress with a great deal of storage (at least 250 GB) that is easily expandable.

Also I need to know what would be a smart backup solution? It will be offsite and needs to be as self-sufficient as possible. I am unsure if tape would feasable for 250-400 GB's of data. Would I be better running some sort of RAID setup, and if so, what should I be looking at?

If you could give me some suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.

P.S. - Cost is not an issue as of yet. And I prefer AMD, but if Xeons make a better choice I will go for them.

Xeon's would be your best bet IMO. I'm sure you'll hear others say AMD, but that's just my opinion.

2.8GHz is the sweet spot it seems for price vs. performance. I would stick with that.

If the server is going to be colocated elsewhere, I would avoid a tape backup solution and go with some sort of software (or software controlled) RAID-1 solution. You could go RAID-5, but that means more $$. I suggest software RAID because if a drive dies, you can rebuild remotely, as opposed to rebuilding the array with new disk after the BIOS boot (and before Remote Desktop is enabled).

I am partial to the SuperMicro X5DPA-GG Motherboard (NewEgg Link) I've built nearly a dozen game servers with this motherboard and have yet to have a problem. However, if this is your first time building a server, I would also recommend checking out pre-made boxes from Appro.

Another thing to consider is rackspace. Can you run 2U? 4U? Can it be a standard ATX case? The larger the case, the cheaper you're going to get away.

For everything, I'd say you're looking around $2300 - $2500 price range, minus the OS.

hmm wow, dual 2.8's benig brought to their knees...
Well too bad you can't do testing with the program running on an opteron and then a xeon setup.

If price is a major concern I'd stick with xeons, and for storage, I'd recomend a simple RAID 1 array with 2 of those new 300gb SATA II drives with NCQ (gonna need a controller to support it, but they aren't much at all).

Also knowing the case would be important, since you only have 1 server I'd imagine your not in a rackmount envirornment...

For a motherboard for xeon I like fatguys choice, it's a cheap, no thrills, get stuff done simple board with 6 dimms

I'm not up on opto boards at all though so your gonna need to check into those if you go that route.

Maxgtor 300gb Sata II drive
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-359&depa=0

Controller, 4 ports, RAID 0, 1, 0+1 and hotswappable.
http://www.provantage.com/buy-22095315-addonics-sata-ii-pci-x-raid-controller-shopping.htm

It can be in a regular case. No rackmount is needed.
Also, cost is not that important of an issue (provided we are talking less than $10000). Would RAID 5 be a better choice in that situation?

And thanks for the input so far!

RAID-5 gives you much more redundancy, at a much higher cost. You'll have to determine if it's worth it. Keep in mind, RAID-1 will give you full data backup, except in the case where BOTH of your disks fail at the same time. AFAIK, you would have to go SCSI to do RAID-5, but I haven't looked into this for a long, long time. If I'm correct, you're looking at a mucho price hike to get 250GB of RAID-5 storage...I mean mucho.

To illustrate what I'm talking about, 300GB SCSI drives are around $1500 a pop....you'd need 5.

I knew about RAID-5 drive costs...
Isn't it 1/x of total drive space lost for x many drives?

Anyways...

How does this look?

Intel Mobo
Processor x2
RAM x4 - Corsair RAM... mmmm good stuff
SATA Controller Card - SATA, RAID 5/10, TCQ
Hard Drives x4 - TCQ enabled

What about using a second computer as a back up? IE an NF7-S2 with gigabit lan, a few 250GB HD's, and the newest socket-A that's about. Once a day, the data is dumped onto the computer a back-up. I can't imagine it would even remotely stressed by the transfer, as when I do full back-ups of my data over 100Mb/S to my 1.4 T-bird, the usage never breaks 4%.

I'm not sure if that controller is a true hardware XOR controller or if it;s ionboard software...if it's software you'll be very dissapointed, and a RAID 1 setup (although more overhead) would be cheaper...the cheaper controller would probably makeup for the overhead allowing for greater speed.

Also, I would urge you to consider the new maxtor SATA II's I listed, they are the fastest 7200rpm drives made (....although they are not rapters, they are only .66 per gb, and the raptors are 2.25 per gb).

A 4 disk maxtor RAID 5 array would cost 1000 total and yield 900gb of storage
A 4 disk raptor RAID 5 array would cost 900 total and yield only 225gb of storage...and I don't think the speed difference is really worthwhile for those extremes.

Also note, A 2 disk maxtor RAID 1 array would probably run 450-500 and yield 300gb of storage and would probably give a raptor RAID 5 a run for it's money...also offer an upgrade with another 300gb RAID 1 set for another 400...cheaper as time goes on.

I looked into that previous card... and it's only software controlled. I am removing that card from my selections. However, I received an email last night from my boss and he wants a RAID-5 setup. I explained to him about the idea of RAID-1, but no... he wants it to be a RAID-5.

I like this one better anyways. And I guess I am going for the Maxtors if that is what you guys think is best.

That Xeon Rig looks good. Thanks for the suggestions; however anyone want to give me an idea on a possible AMD rig? I want to have my options open for anything just in case .

Current Setup Ideas:

Xeon Prestonia
SUPERMICRO "SUPER X5DPA-GG" E7501
Xeon 2.8 GHz 533MHz FSB, 512K Cache HT (x2)
2512 MB Corsair RAM PC-2100 (x4)

Xeon Nocona
Tyan "S5350G2NR" E7320 Chipset OR SUPERMICRO "SUPER X5DPA-GG" E7501 Chipset OR Any other ideas?
Intel Xeon 2.8 GHz with EMT 64, 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, HT
Corsair PC-2700

Opteron
IWILL "DK8X" AMD-8000 Chipset OR Any better ones?
Opteron 246 OR Any better ideas?
Corsair PC-2700



RAID Controller Card:
3ware 9500S-8MI with this Special Cable - SATA, RAID 5/10, Hardware XOR
Notes: Costlier, but one cable to connect them all!

- OR -

3Ware 9500S-8 - SATA, RAID 5/10, Hardware XOR
Notes: No special cable, but instead four thin SATA cables floating around to get snagged on something.


Hard Drives (Will Be Run RAID 5):

Maxtor 300 Gig NCQ and 16MB Cache x4
Notes: More space, NCQ, and more Cache... however, will the lower spindle speed hurt performance?

- OR -

WD Raptor 74 Gig with TCQ
Notes: TCQ, 10K rpm... however, costlier and less storage - is it worth the price premium?

Case/PS:
Case
Still no clue on a PS!

only suggestion is read up on that controller make sure it's hot swappable (if you need 100% uptime) also check on expandability....900gb is a ton of space though...atleast I think so cuz I use 60gb max

Editing your post on me while I'm replying!
I like the tyan with 8 dimms....can't go wrong with more dimm slots IMO

For the controller, I'm not sure how the first one cnonects (newegg usualy pictures cables and I don't see any cables/adapters for thsoe 2 serial ports it looks like. unless you figure that out get the more expensive one with the 8 prots on the card.

I can't find any redundant PSUs....but for just a single PSU I'd recommendthe antec True 550W EPS12v (OOS at newegg, but other vendors have it)

I'll be using 4 ports with the 300 GB drives... and the first card (8MI) uses a special connector to combine 4 SATA drives onto one connection. There are two of these connections on the 8MI. However, I don't think I'll need to worry about messing with that. And both of them are hot-swappable.

EDIT: sorry about editing while you are replying. I am trying to clean up the post so it is easier to read.

I also found the extra cable. Here it is. I think it is used for a backplane for easier management.

Linky

Personally, I wouldn't do SATA for an SQL server. It simply doesn't have the available IO needed for a serious server:

http://www.storagereview.com/php/be...&devID_1=264&devID_2=278&devID_3=269&devCnt=4

The Fujitsu MAS or newer Maxtors will simply stomp the performance of the SATA drives for server applications. Remember you will have stacked IO requests and IO performance is the highest need for your disk subsystem. The next highest needs will be data integrity and reliability. This needs to be a 5 9s server and the data has to be protected. SATA does not have parity checking for written data, SCSI does, as well as intelligent bad sector remapping.

Couple any of the above drives with either an Intel SCRU-42X or LSI 320-2X for a fast reliable array. I'd recommend RAID 0+1 for the storage array and RAID-1 on two smaller disks for the OS array. RAID-5 will kill your performance on written data, even somewhat with newer controllers.

This is expensive, but probably more in lines of what you need performance wise.

I'll try to take a look at some of the other HW later, but i don't think the 7501 chipset has Nocona support. The 2.8s do tend to be the sweet spot for price to performance ratio, as previously stated and the higher bus speeds of the Noconas is a plus.

that is a good point....how many users are going to be hitting this SQL server and how hard?

ajrettke said:

that is a good point....how many users are going to be hitting this SQL server and how hard?

Click to expand...

That's an important point. Higher user levels may benefit from more RAM as well. I usually spec general use servers for a minimum of 2GB.

You could get some XEON MPs and build a 4 way server. RAID 5 deffinatly is the way to go, and if drive speed is a concern, than look into U320 drives. SATA has no place in a server environment, nor does PATA. 2gb of RAM at the min. Id be looking closer to 4gb or more.

It really comes down to how often you want to have to upgrade, and how much money you can spend.

Ok... I just talked to my boss and he gave me some more info.

This Alpha program is being used to turn the company into a paperless office.

Currently, we have one or two users scanning in old documents from HR, Accounting, and MR. With the help of some OCR software, the records are converted into digital format and are added as records in SQL. These SQL records are being organized with the aid of additional software.

Eventually, we will have roughly 25-30 users at time constantly searching through the data, pulling up records (basically large reads). One or two users will still be scanning and OCR'ing data into SQL, or entering in the data via computer.

The total disk space amount needs to be AT LEAST 1.5 terabytes, with considerable room to grow.

As for cost, this will not be an issue yet, provided the ideas do not go hog wild.

My Boss said:

Spend the least amount possible to get the job done, while having ample space to expand when necessary.

Click to expand...

So there you have it... and I am still a bit lost.

1.5tb, you are going to need an external RAID array. Id still go RAID 5, get some fiber cards, and start looking into some serious data storage sollutions.

yeah....with 1.5tb just build your server with a 2 U320 15k SCSI drives in RAID 1 and a fiber card to storage array.

Hell actualy at this point I would say call HP and let them set it up....your getting into seriously expensive hardware and your going to want tech support, and warranties.

I am starting to think that as well... this is a little too much for me to handle.

Although Fishy, where should I start researching this stuff for the fiber and SAN?

dark_15 said:

I am starting to think that as well... this is a little too much for me to handle.

Although Fishy, where should I start researching this stuff for the fiber and SAN?

Click to expand...

Id hit google. The server would be pretty easy to build. I think that you are going to have to end up buying the SAN. Im sure you could find drives, a fiber card, and a case, but it would most likley end up costing you the same amount of money.

if you guys are looking to do it on the cheap. Get an NCCH-DL and a fiber card and a SCSI card. This MB is a workstation MB, but solid as a rock, I have one on the way. 2 PCI-X slots, and you are looking a a pretty decent MB for not a lot of $. Only down side that I see is it has a max of 4gb of RAM.

You may want to look into an IBM/HP/Dell server and an external array, but from what I have looked at in the past they are big $$$$.

My old roomate bought a U320 rack mount case, holds 10 drives, and had a fiber card in it. He popped a fiber card in his machine, and off he went. You may want to consider that as an option. I wouldn't get used drives though. You would be pretty safe with a used case and fiber card though.

See if you can get your boss to put a number on this project, and I can help you better then. If I had no budget, I could spec you out a monster, but I think there must be a celing some where.