View Full Version : Could this happen?
There is this wierd situation that I won't explain. Quick thing is that last year someone threatened me over AIM and recently I was contacted again by this person. Somehow she has a relation to one of my friends and I asked her what sort of threat she was if at all and he responded with this.
"She could destroy your network in a second, every computer, power surged, but i promise you, she wont"
regardless is this even possible, I need to know.
Easy Answer: Umm, no
Full Answer, maybe if she was outside your house and connected a few thousand volts down your telephone line
I thought so, I just take threats very personally and I want to know whats going on before I act.
UlicBelouve
02-20-05, 10:57 PM
Oh, no it's possible. She'd just need to hack in to the power grid, if it has remote access, and has control over the functions, then disable the safety features and somehow pump a bunch of juice to your house. And OF COURSE she would have complete administrative access, very high-level. Or cycle the power quickly to it, which might fry things out. Yeah, it could be done. But it'd be easier for her to remotely launch a missile strike using the warheads stored in Russia. Pfft.
Brundle Fly
02-20-05, 11:48 PM
There is this wierd situation that I won't explain. Quick thing is that last year someone threatened me over AIM and recently I was contacted again by this person. Somehow she has a relation to one of my friends and I asked her what sort of threat she was if at all and he responded with this.
"She could destroy your network in a second, every computer, power surged, but i promise you, she wont"
regardless is this even possible, I need to know.
Report the dork(or dorkette, as this case may be) to their ISP, with copies of any emails or AIM convo's you've had. Look, morons like this don't deserve to have an internet connection, let their ISP burn their connection. Find out who her ISP is, say it's "roadrunner" for example, write an email to abuse@roadrunner.com, and have her burned. Doesn't matter who the ISP is, just remember that reporting abuses to ANY ISP begins with "abuse@" and then just insert the ISP's name.
Seriously, people should not be making threats like this, whether they have the power to back it up or not, time to kick them in the jewels(or jewel box) and make them face reality, the internet is not a free-for-all, one cannot go around threatening others without repercussions.
:mad:
schnikies79
02-21-05, 12:13 AM
What a tool! (her/him, not you..).. Lol, don't worry about it..
Dayton
UnseenMenace
02-21-05, 02:37 AM
Wow someome with skills like that using software from AOL they must be l33t. I bet they even have the ability to spell there username in that super |<3\/\/L ]-[4><oR font.. Thats a dead giveaway, but ask them if they own hackers on DVD just to make certain :D
I would personally not be to concerned.
unless her name is Chi :P , it's not going to happen.
ghettocomp
02-21-05, 03:06 AM
:-/ :rolleyes:
eatmyshorts7569
02-21-05, 03:31 AM
um i totally agree with Brundle Fly. idk if its possible or not. but threat is a threat, even if the person can't back it up.
the internet is not a free-for-all, one cannot go around threatening others without repercussions.
Yes it is. The ISP won't do anything.
People make threats on the internet all the time. Context plays a big role.
XWRed1, I guess you didn't read the fine print when you applied to your ISP. They can and will revoke your internet privileges if deemed necessary and if you've broken any of their rules. Most likely they won't do anything for a first offence unless it's something really serious. In the case above, the abuser will probably just get a warning if they are reported.
Brundle Fly
02-21-05, 06:18 AM
Yes it is. The ISP won't do anything.
People make threats on the internet all the time. Context plays a big role.
I personally had an idiot burned by two different ISP's, his first was Sympatico.ca, the second was some other ISP on the east coast of Canada, Cogeco of New Brunswick or something like that. I still remember the wee twit's online name, "Hammy Hamster".
I was threatened ad-nausium in Sympatico's forums, he was going to "melt down my harddrives and my burner too". An annoyance for the most part, but when it grew to email threats, I fired off an email to abuse@sympatico.ca which included links to the threatening posts he had made. Although I offered to forward his email threats, they were not required, Sympatico burned him.
He got hooked up with Cogeco, came back to the Sympatico forums, and began his threats all over again, laughing away, stating that I couldn't do anything about it this time, he wasn't Sympatico anymore. The 17 year old punk moron figured that just because he did not have Sympatico as an ISP, he was free to threaten whomever the hell he wanted in Sympatico's forums.
This is not true, and once again, I had his new ISP burn him.
Whether online, or in the "real" world, you cannot go around threatening people without repercussions. A lot of people don't realize that this is illegal, online threats are given as much credence as threats made in the "real" world, charges can be laid(at least here in Ontario, Canada) by the police. The OPP(Ontario Provincial Police) does not take this kind of thing lightly.
As hpjtv has already said, read the fine print concerning your ISP, they can burn you at any time. The majority of ISP's take hacking threats very seriously. It really isn't a free for all, this forum is not the only place with rules. :)
I'm genuinely surprised to see someone get dropped by their isp for harassing people online. Your example threats by him are genuinely stupid and non-serious to me (unless maybe the emails were more serious?)
I guess it's because it is canada.
I work at an isp, and we ignore everything that goes to our abuse account.
I don't see how every ISP could take EVERY SINGLE hacking threat as a GRAVE THREAT. There are so many punk kids online that don't know what they are talking about and just generally act stupid. They are also 100% harmless.
Slackfumasta
02-21-05, 12:41 PM
There is this wierd situation that I won't explain. Quick thing is that last year someone threatened me over AIM and recently I was contacted again by this person. Somehow she has a relation to one of my friends and I asked her what sort of threat she was if at all and he responded with this.
"She could destroy your network in a second, every computer, power surged, but i promise you, she wont"
regardless is this even possible, I need to know.
Let me answer this:
AHahahahaHAHAhahaHA
AHAhhahahahaha
haha
HAhahahaha.
Ok, I think I'm done now. That should about cover it.
Tell her you'll give her $50 if she can do it.
Slackfumasta
02-21-05, 12:46 PM
I work at an isp, and we ignore everything that goes to our abuse account.
Man, you people **** me off :)
Well, not you, but ISPs who ignore their abuse emails. My webserver is attacked every day, always by a member of the same ISP in Turkey, with a different IP address. They are attempting to use a PUT command to place files on my webserver, which are html files with links to their l33t logos and phrases like "h4ck3d by L33Tz0R pwnt!!1one!!". I capture these files, their IP address, date/time of the attack, and send it off to their ISPs abuse account, and never hear anything back. Meanwhile, the same people try to put files on my webserver over and over again. Fortunately they can't do anything, but it still irks me that I can't get a response at all about it.
I look at the abuse reports randomly, they are usually automated reports from people saying they've gotten a single spam or a single intrusion attempt which itself is automated by some worm an end user has at one of the isps who we are an isp for.
I could care less about jerkoffs that have worms and don't even know it, they don't hurt any of my computers. Dorks that make stupid remarks on the internet I don't care about disconnecting either, they are harmless. If you disconnected every idiot or person with an infected computer, 3/4 of the internet would be gone.
The moment the malice leaves the armchair and they actually intrude another system or hurt someone, then I'm cool with them getting disconnected.
There's simply too many people doing stupid stuff to disconnect it all, especially when 98% of it poses no immediate harm.
Brundle Fly
02-21-05, 07:35 PM
I'm genuinely surprised to see someone get dropped by their isp for harassing people online. Your example threats by him are genuinely stupid and non-serious to me (unless maybe the emails were more serious?)
I guess it's because it is canada.
I work at an isp, and we ignore everything that goes to our abuse account.
I don't see how every ISP could take EVERY SINGLE hacking threat as a GRAVE THREAT. There are so many punk kids online that don't know what they are talking about and just generally act stupid. They are also 100% harmless.
This statement: "I work at an isp, and we ignore everything that goes to our abuse account.", does not say a lot for the company that you work for, in fact, it says that is blows. If what you are saying is true, the company you work for is a POS. :mad:
The point is not about whether or not they can hack someone or not, it's about being able to post in a forum without being threatened with ANYTHING. No one should have to tolerate being threatened with being hacked, beat up, or having personal property damaged. When some loser hacks a computer, they damage personal property.
No ISP should allow their subscribers to abuse others, threatening is bullying, and it should not be allowed. Once again, there are rules in this forum, which stops this type of activity before it starts. I doubt you consider this forum's rules as a joke, yet you consider someone threatening a subscriber to the ISP you work for as a joke.
In fact, you consider it so much of a joke, that the complaint gets junked before it's even read. That is so very wrong.
It surprises me, that you, as a senior member of these forums, think that your ISP's policies are okay, whilst you abide by the rules in these forums. Why are you so willing to delete a complaint before it is even read? If everyone set a good example, there would be no "bad" example to follow.
I was told by an OPP officer, Constable Dave Shultz, to be exact, that all forums that originate/are supported by Canadian ISP's are stored on a tape drive by the RCMP. Depending on whether or not any "flags" are raised, forum conversations are stored/saved for six months to two years.
Personally, I believe it's better to nip these things in the bud, before they blow out of proportion, and some freak decides to start stalking people in real life. And yes, I have seen this happen to a very good friend of mine, the same guy who sent me the "stick-on" diamond plate in my mod thread.
This freak actually went as far as to drive 150 miles, park outside my buddy's house, and take pictures, then describe what he and his wife did throughout the day. Yes, what may seem harmless to begin with, can turn ugly very quickly, we don't know if we're dealing with someone who is unstable or not. I'd rather err on the side of caution.
BTW, the freak who stalked my buddy was also burned, by Rogers.com, another Canadian company, that doesn't believe its subscribers should be open to bullying and intimidation. :D :thup:
Slackfumasta
02-21-05, 09:06 PM
If you disconnected every idiot or person with an infected computer, 3/4 of the internet would be gone.
Oooh, and my Utopia would begin!
Brundle Fly
02-21-05, 09:10 PM
Oooh, and my Utopia would begin!
Oh man, I'm 110% with you on that! :attn:
In fact, you consider it so much of a joke, that the complaint gets junked before it's even read. That is so very wrong.
Because usually it is as substantive as a joke.
One the one hand you have a paying customer. On the other hand, you might have some punk kid of that customer that harasses people on a forum.
I think it is completely unreasonable to disconnect people for merely SAYING stuff online anonymously. Do you think it is reasonable to kick kids out of school or send them to juvenile hall if they say something as evil as "I'm gonna kick your ass" to their friend?
As far as my company, all the abuse mails I've read are hacking or spamming attempts. Usually a SINGLE frickin logged attempt, logged and mailed to me by an automated tool, the hack attempt itself likely originating from a rooted box. Ditto for the spam attempts. Among other things, the mailbox is just filled with this crap. The result of people running Windows on computers connected to the Internet. Maybe it'd be more reasonable to ban Windows from the Internet?
This stuff and people being jerks on online forums is small fries online, imho. Completely irrelevant. Busting people being annoying on forums is like arresting people for swearing in public, or playing explicit rap lyrics from their car or something. It's a public place, some people will be ******** out there.
They aren't actually DOING anything, just talking hard. Harassing people anonymously from their armchairs. Much more effective to get them banned from that forum than to try and ask your isp, cause most ISPs don't care what their users post on messageboards as far as I know.
In the end, I think an ISP's job should only be to blindly connect people to the network, not to police their actions. The only policing that should be done should be if something illegal has transpired, and there's no law against saying mean things.
eatmyshorts7569
02-22-05, 01:47 AM
well idk if the isp will do nothing but just kick that person by there A by telling the cops. u shoudent take threats. i mean it. i know imight sound like a ***** but threats are no jokes. they might be but ther also might not.
XWred1, some of your points are just not right. I totally disagree...
Especially when you say "I think an ISP's job should only be to blindly connect people to the network, not to police their actions" ... its like saying the gorverment shouldnt care about safety test(approve) of importing vehicles because the police will enforce the law if anyone break the law. A 1000HP car shouldnt be driven on street even the driver is not driving over the speed limit. Its the matter of PREVENTING it from happening.
Also comparing "threating online" as "swearing freely on street" is just wrong. There are not the same. A kid in HS saying " i'm gonna kick your ass" WILL be suspended if the person he said it to took it seriously. I dare you to come to me and say " i'm gonna kill you" on street. It doesnt matter if you're a kid, if you're laughing when you say that or how you get to me (airplane, boat, train...) what street are you on..... you still go to jail for that.
I understand why you ignored most of the emails to your abuse box. But you guys should have a filter or some sort so you can actually provide a better customer service. If i can rate your ISP, i will give it a 3
I completely agree with Brundle Fly in post #18 and MameXP. XWRed1, mind telling me what ISP you work for so I can tell all my relatives in the USA and Canada to stay away.
My ISP is Telus.net and here's their policies:
http://businesscontent.telus.com/webcontent/content/Products/legal/acceptableUsePolicy.jsp
A brief:
TELUS Communications Inc. and its affiliates ("TELUS") is committed to being the best possible network citizen.
Quoted from Site:
"If the Customer engages in any of the prohibited activities described below it may, at the sole discretion of TELUS and without notice to the Customer, result in the immediate (1) restriction, suspension or termination of the Customer's use of the Communication Services (including without limitation the Customer's TELUS Internet access or hosting service), without compensation to the Customer, (2) blocking or filtering of the Customer's content, data or materials, (3) application of complaint processing fees, disconnection fees and additional service charges to the Customer's account, (4) deletion of the Customer's content, data or materials from TELUS servers, or (5) involvement of law enforcement agencies. Such activities may also result in civil or criminal liability."
Criminal Offenses:
Communicating hatred
Pyramid selling
Unauthorized use of a computer
Mischief in relation to data
Fraud
Defamatory libel
Obscenity
Child pornography
Harassment/stalking <---------------------- HERE
Uttering threats <-------------------------- HERE
Civil Offences and Violations of the Rights of Others:
Copyright infringement
Trade-mark infringement
Patent infringement
Misappropriation of trade secrets
Defamation
And a whole list of others and yes they will take action if anyone breaks their rules.
Well apparently most isps agree with me and not you guys, because people don't get disconnected as much as you guys would like.
Especially when you say "I think an ISP's job should only be to blindly connect people to the network, not to police their actions" ... its like saying the gorverment shouldnt care about safety test(approve) of importing vehicles because the police will enforce the law if anyone break the law.
I don't think that analogy fits. Easy problems to spot are that accidents are ACCIDENTS, not things people usually do on purpose. Safety testing has it's place regardless of lawbreaking... similar to how you'd want secure OSes on the internet rather than insecure ones.
Also the Internet doesn't belong to isps, and the isps don't set any rules on the internet.
Maybe a better analogy would be that the government should mandate all vehicles come equipped with gps-enabled speed limiters that will phone the dmv and suspend your license if you start driving too fast?
Even that doesn't work because in that example you have broken the law, whereas no law is broken if you act like a jerk in a forum.
I guess I just can't accept your guys' point of view because I can't see the big threat posed by people that make stupid posts in forums.
Brundle Fly
02-22-05, 07:24 AM
Because usually it is as substantive as a joke.
One the one hand you have a paying customer. On the other hand, you might have some punk kid of that customer that harasses people on a forum.
I think it is completely unreasonable to disconnect people for merely SAYING stuff online anonymously. Do you think it is reasonable to kick kids out of school or send them to juvenile hall if they say something as evil as "I'm gonna kick your ass" to their friend?
No one has the right to harass others, be it online or in the "real" world, it is illegal. Harassment is bullying, whether it's anonymous or not. When one kid tells his friend he's going to kick his a**, obviously, if he's a friend, it was a joke. If he's not a friend, it's harassment, and bullying, and should not be taken lightly. Just Google around and see how many times bullying and harassment have led to fatalities.
Online harassment relies on people being afraid that the person doing the harassing could escalate the situation into the real world. As I already stated, I've seen this happen. There are thousands of mental defectives online, just look at all the defectives that continue to be busted for having and creating kiddie porn.
Like Telus, Rogers has rules for use of their services. As a subscriber to rogers.com, I should be able to count on my ISP holding up their end of the agreement. I pay good money for my internet connection, and roger's terms of service state that no user is allowed to harass other users. If I was to complain about another rogers subscriber harassing me, I would fully expect my concerns to be addressed. Something is fundamentally wrong if an ISP has a policy of deleting un-read complaints.
As far as my company, all the abuse mails I've read are hacking or spamming attempts. Usually a SINGLE frickin logged attempt, logged and mailed to me by an automated tool, the hack attempt itself likely originating from a rooted box. Ditto for the spam attempts. Among other things, the mailbox is just filled with this crap. The result of people running Windows on computers connected to the Internet. Maybe it'd be more reasonable to ban Windows from the Internet?
I'm curious as to whether you techies, as a group in your company, have decided on your own to just delete complaint emails, or if that policy comes from "upstairs"?
This stuff and people being jerks on online forums is small fries online, imho. Completely irrelevant. Busting people being annoying on forums is like arresting people for swearing in public, or playing explicit rap lyrics from their car or something. It's a public place, some people will be ******** out there.
They aren't actually DOING anything, just talking hard. Harassing people anonymously from their armchairs. Much more effective to get them banned from that forum than to try and ask your isp, cause most ISPs don't care what their users post on messageboards as far as I know.
In the end, I think an ISP's job should only be to blindly connect people to the network, not to police their actions. The only policing that should be done should be if something illegal has transpired, and there's no law against saying mean things.
Actually, there are laws against saying "mean things". As for policing a subscriber's actions, well, it is the ISP's job, they make it their job with their "Terms Of Service" policies. These forums are moderated to keep the harassers out. If the "stickies" with the rules/guidelines were ignored, and the mods did not enforce them, this forum would be a free-for-all.
My ISP says abuse won't be tolerated, so does Telus, that should be enforced. To delete all complaints without reading them is to say no complaint has any legitimacy. Attitudes like that are what allows these morons to continue abusing others.
:bang head
I dont understand why you keep saying harrassment or threating online is ACCIDENTS. Sure it can be a dumb kid thats unmature, but you cant make excuse like that when your kid goes out and stabs other kid. THATS NOT ACCIDENT, in fact thats your RESPOSSIBLITY. Samething apply to a subscriber to an ISP. They hold their responsibility for their use of internet. Oh.... they're downloading warez from the underground hosts, is that an accident to you? Their spamming other emails, is that an accident? Sure their computers may be hacked to spam other emails but they still have responsibility for their use of internet, no EXCEPTION.
If you keep saying its an accident, i'm sorry but i lost my respect to you.
I never said harassing people or downloading warez is an accident. I said car accidents are accidents. I said your car analogy doesn't make sense because the act with the car IS and accident, and the act online IS NOT. Maybe you should get some reading comprehension.
I honestly don't think regulating speech online is supposed to be the responsibility of a netizen. You can see where that goes obviously, especially if you live in the United States (I notice you both are Canadian, they still value free speech there, don't they?). *MAYBE* if they are threatening you on a forum and somehow it really does turn out to be something that can translate to real damage to yourself, but I can't see that happening more than a negligable fraction of the time, and I don't see it happening with the threat the OP is talking about.
We don't delete the emails either, we just don't open them. They come in all the time among spam, and some other things we DO care about. Someone is supposed to be reading them, but I think she's been busy lately. I open them periodically for fun. I've NEVER seen one that is somebody demanding we disconnect someone for flaming them on a forum, its always automated hack attempt or spam notifications. We're usually busy doing other things than forwarding automated mails to other isps who are our customers.
Yeah this is starting to sound like politics, I don't think anyone is changing anyone else's opinions.
I'll stop posting.
Brundle Fly
02-22-05, 10:31 PM
Yeah, **Dead Horse Syndrome**, sometimes, "agree to disagree" is best. Peace dude. :attn:
UlicBelouve
02-22-05, 11:12 PM
I'll toss in.
I work for an ISP, and we actually read our abuse reports. So long as they have the required info (like a header, IP address, etc), it gets read. Yes, a lot of them cannot be dealt with, but they get read, and then those that maintain our spam filters also get informed in time, if we notice patterns.
The abuse account (for us, it's a webpage) is not too worthwhile, as it can get thrown in with all the other less-credible reports. Really, though, an ISP can and should (and ours does) take you seriously if you call them on it. Not that I or we don't care about the abuse reports, but you can see how urgent issues might be missed.
Here, you get threatened, we get a report, if it's our guy (one of our customers), then he's pretty much off. He can get back on if he talks to one of our higher-ups.
So it's not just Canada. I feel like saying who I DO work for, but I really don't want to advertise and risk potential trouble (from here and from my company).
I'll toss in.
I work for an ISP, and we actually read out abuse reports. So long as they have the required info (like a header, IP address, etc), it gets read. Yes, a lot of them cannot be dealt with, but they get read, and then those that maintain or spam filters also get informed in time, if we notice patterns.
The abuse account (for us, it's a webpage) is not too worthwhile, as it can get thrown in with all the other less-credible reports. Really, though, an ISP can and should (and ours does) take you seriously if you call them on it. Not that I or we don't care about the abuse reports, but you can see how urgent issues might be missed.
Here, you get threatened, we get a report, if it's our guy (one of our customers), then he's pretty much off. He can get back on if he talks to one of our higher-ups.
So it's not just Canada. I feel like saying who I DO work for, but I really don't want to advertise and risk potential trouble (from here and from my company).
Thanks for clearing it up, I will give this a bump so ppl can read. Its NOT ONLY CANADA woohoo.... From early posts, i felt sorry for american ppl lol...
I don't know about you guys but whenever I write to abuse@whatever.com (not this exact email... but you know what I mean), I always get an automated response which informs me the email has been received and someone will deal with me shortly. In about one or two days, I aways get a response from someone that has read it. This applies to email accounts, online auctions, ISP's, etc. So XWRed1, it seems to me that either your ISP is full of slackers or you are just speaking for yourself in which case I feel sorry for your ISP.
It's slackers.
I've only ever emailed an abuse mail once, for a REAL hacking intrusion, not for someone making me cry on a forum. I gave them very detailed logs, a breakdown of the whole intrusion, and links to the tools the guy used which he was hosting off his own cablemodem on their network. It was Charter, they never answered.
BulldogMcC
02-24-05, 12:26 PM
It's slackers.
I've only ever emailed an abuse mail once, for a REAL hacking intrusion, not for someone making me cry on a forum. I gave them very detailed logs, a breakdown of the whole intrusion, and links to the tools the guy used which he was hosting off his own cablemodem on their network. It was Charter, they never answered.
Your report was so technical in depth they knew they could not stroke you off a couple of times with bs so they just ignored you outright. Play dummer and maybe they will answer next time. [/sarcasm]
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