The Truth Behind Winbond UTT (OCZ Vx)

[Sentential]

Ive gotten this info from an unnamed source and s/he will remain this way.

Anyhoo:

The leaders of both Winbond Dram and Twinmos Dram are very close friends. In a shady/under the table deal, Winbond agreed to ship raw "bh type" ICs to Twinmos. This IC then became Winbond UTT.

OCZ saw this in their fabs and thus rebranded the Twinmos and called it OCZ VX.

In actuality there are actually several UTT dies. Which are currentally being fabed in an Infineon factory side by side the Winbond stuff. Infact UTT has alot of roots in Infineon tech.

Overall there are 3 distinct types of UTT / BH type dies which are made in the *SAME* fab plant. One is found in ProMOS/Mosel as I had earlier suspected and confirmed. The other is pure Infineon based and the final is made by winbond themselves.

While the others are technically UTT dies they are not capable of the 222, even a high number of WInbond units are not. High enough that only OCZ decided to use it in its 2-2-2 form. Other companies had looked at such advances but the cost per unit was too high to justify it.

Basically in short the only good binned UTT is found in OCZ and Twinmos directally. All the others are "failed" UTT dies similar to what we know as CH5.

However I will stress that the UTT is NOT BH5 at all. They are made on different wafers and are a differnt die size wholly. Winbond does not plan to remake any of the true BH series and is unsure how long they will even make UTT.

I thought you guys would like to hear the truth for a change :)

[g0dM@n]

Your knowledge is always appreciated. Thanks, bro.

[Sentential]

In short if you wanna find UTT, buy Twinmos. You will surely find it. :beer:

[TimoneX]

Good info there bro. :beer:

Sounds spot on and I'd definately recommend the Twinmos Speed Premium sticks to someone looking for some great memory pretty cheap, though the VX warranty may be worth the premium if peace of mind is important to you.

I see some Intel stuff in yer sig. Ya tryin' out the other side for a bit?

[Sentential]

Ya tryin' out the other side for a bit?
Yea I got mighty sick of my Winchester. Couldnt stand it any longer.

[HousERaT]

thanks for the info bro.... glad I went with Twinmos instead of the other manufacturers using utt.

[TimoneX]

Yea I got mighty sick of my Winchester. Couldnt stand it any longer.

IC. Looks like yer gettin' yer goods today then? Nice. I'm sure you'll let us know how it goes. Is that the newer Prescott M is it, with speedstep and other power saving goodies? I can't keep up with all the P4 flavors. I wish you luck with it.

[crimedog]

how come the twinmos rep is saying they're getting fresh bh5 then?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53645
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52262

[Sentential]

IC. Looks like yer gettin' yer goods today then? Nice. I'm sure you'll let us know how it goes. Is that the newer Prescott M is it, with speedstep and other power saving goodies? I can't keep up with all the P4 flavors. I wish you luck with it.
Yea however its not a PentM its essentialy Prescott 2.0

[TimoneX]

Gotcha. I read a bit about them over at xbit. Sounds interesting. A little bit lower power consumption.

[Sentential]

Gotcha. I read a bit about them over at xbit. Sounds interesting. A little bit lower power consumption.
And quite a bit higher clocks. Thats the more important issue ;)

[hawtrawkr]

And quite a bit higher clocks. Thats the more important issue ;)

nice info on the memory before your post id only heard guesses as to how these were being manufactured/binned

im interested in your new p4 results as these chips are calling to me just wish i didnt have to get a new mobo and memory to run them (the dfi 875t wont)

[Sentential]

nice info on the memory before your post id only heard guesses as to how these were being manufactured/binned

im interested in your new p4 results as these chips are calling to me just wish i didnt have to get a new mobo and memory to run them (the dfi 875t wont)
Yea man I hear ya. Too bad those ****ing commies at ZZF delayed my processing time for President's day. Now it wont be here till Thrusday :-/

_______

But as ive said. The source of this info is *very* credible and frankly it looks right to me.

[hawtrawkr]

Yea man I hear ya. Too bad those ****ing commies at ZZF delayed my processing time for President's day. Now it wont be here till Thrusday :-/


laff i definantly feel your pain on that. wait times from zzf is the main reason i get alot of my stuff from the egg nowadays (love their process and ship times)

as far as what you said sounding right, it sounds like its right in line with the things ive been hearing (aside from the good friends part which i dont doubt) and kinda brings all the talk from one thread to another into focus.

[Sentential]

laff i definantly feel your pain on that. wait times from zzf is the main reason i get alot of my stuff from the egg nowadays (love their process and ship times)

as far as what you said sounding right, it sounds like its right in line with the things ive been hearing (aside from the good friends part which i dont doubt) and kinda brings all the talk from one thread to another into focus.
True but it did have free 2nd day air....not that it matters anymore :bang head

[g0dM@n]

how come the twinmos rep is saying they're getting fresh bh5 then?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53645
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52262

How come nobody responded to Crimedog?

[TimoneX]

And quite a bit higher clocks. Thats the more important issue ;)

I saw that as well. 4.3 to 4.5Ghz appears to be within reach. Should make for an interesting match-up with Venice & San Diego, at least in some applications. I found the 3.73Ghz EE performance to be rather puzzling. It didn't seem to offer much of anything over the previous EE king, 3.46Ghz was it? You'd expect it to offer significantly higer performance, but it didn't appear that way. Well it was just one review, maybe they were drinking :beer:

[TimoneX]

How come nobody responded to Crimedog?

UTT or BH5 doesn't seem to make much difference what it's called. They both behave very similarly, save that BH5 seems to be a little bit more capable in 256Mb(SS) form and UTT seems to be a bit more capable in 512Mb(DS) form.

[Sentential]

UTT or BH5 doesn't seem to make much difference what it's called. They both behave very similarly, save that BH5 seems to be a little bit more capable in 256Mb(SS) form and UTT seems to be a bit more capable in 512Mb(DS) form.
Im not really sure what the *real* name for it is. Ill ask tonight.

[Steven4563]

intresting nice post sent man :)

[Diablo23RD]

I saw 5 differrence companies have have the sticks with UTT ic:
- TwinMOS, you can buy from newegg.com. I dont have this pair, fail to order one time.
- OCZ, VX or Value series (that what I have)
- KVR, only one shipment of Kingston have UTT chips, may be will not again.
- Geil, Ultra series, I got a pair too.
- Patriot, the IC rebranded to Liberty, I will have this pair later.
When I got a good Winny chips, I will do round up all the UTT I have, will see which better!

[crimedog]

Winbond does not plan to remake any of the true BH series and is unsure how long they will even make UTT.

that's the only reason i posted those two links

by the way... bh5 got a bad rap for it's double sided overclocking abilities almost solely because the nforce2 chip which cannot address single sided ram in 1T (cpc on). Throw those same sticks that can't do 220mhz cpc on with 3.3v in a dfi nf2 into a nf4 dfi and they'll fly :)

[Sentential]

that's the only reason i posted those two links

by the way... bh5 got a bad rap for it's double sided overclocking abilities almost solely because the nforce2 chip which cannot address single sided ram in 1T (cpc on). Throw those same sticks that can't do 220mhz cpc on with 3.3v in a dfi nf2 into a nf4 dfi and they'll fly :)
Yea anything over 2x256 in an AXP sux. belive me I tried briefly.

[crimedog]

sentential responded to my question at xs:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53645&page=6&pp=25
if anyone else is interested :)

[Sentential]

sentential responded to my question at xs:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=53645&page=6&pp=25
if anyone else is interested :)
Anytime bro :beer:

[rseven]

Okay, where do you find the TwinMos Speed Premium? All I see at Newegg are these:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=1
I am figuring these are not the right ones.

[Highlander]

Seems the utt chips like the brainpower PCB... People have always said BH5 would be even better on Brainpower, now theres a decendant running on it and its flying....
Least we can see why OCZ didnt want this out in the open, they are loosing out to TwinMos atm big time

[man_utd]

Ch-5 was a completely different die size as bh-5...the comparison of crap bh-5 to ch-5 isn't exactly an accurate one.

[Sentential]

Okay, where do you find the TwinMos Speed Premium? All I see at Newegg are these:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=1
I am figuring these are not the right ones.
No that is them. Thats the stuff people have been getting, look at the reviews LOL.

[rseven]

Thanks, Sen

[Sentential]

Thanks, Sen
Not a problem :beer:. Twinmos is the only reseller thats getting the good stuff via Winbond. Other guys are just rebinning it.

[TimoneX]

Okay, where do you find the TwinMos Speed Premium? All I see at Newegg are these:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=1
I am figuring these are not the right ones.

That is NOT speed premium.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=1

This is NOT speed premium, but most people report getting UTT chips. The TMII kits have 50D chips on all as far as I know.

This is speed premium:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-405&depa=1

They have 44D 4.4ns chips. These are the ones I got and have running at DDR530 1.5-2-2-5 1T.

I do not know how much practical difference there is between 5.0ns and 4.4ns chips. There's a guy around here getting both to do direct comparos. The cost difference is only a few bucks. The real stickler is availability. The TMSP modules disappear in minutes.

[HousERaT]

Okay, where do you find the TwinMos Speed Premium? All I see at Newegg are these:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=1
I am figuring these are not the right ones.


I can confirm that they do have the UTT chips (I got mine yesterday) however these are the 50D chips whereas the TMSP chips have the 44D chips (so I've heard). I'll know more about the TMSP chips tomorrow as they'll be delivered then. Both seem to be monster overclockers with voltage.

[crimedog]

keep in mind that if you order the twinmos you're risking getting non-UTT chips :(

[rseven]

[QUOTE=TimoneX]That is NOT speed premium.

This is NOT speed premium, but most people report getting UTT chips. The TMII kits have 50D chips on all as far as I know.

This is speed premium:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-405&depa=1

QUOTE]
But those aren't a dual channal kit. Does anyone sell the dual channel Speed premiums?

[Sentential]

keep in mind that if you order the twinmos you're risking getting non-UTT chips :(
You'd be suprised. Right now your odds are slim to none. But the premium Twinmos and you will get UTT

[HousERaT]

But those aren't a dual channal kit. Does anyone sell the dual channel Speed premiums?

I've not seen the TWSP in a dual set anywhere..... at least not yet.

[g0dM@n]

Guy who gets UTT: "Oh HI, Newegg. Thanks for your product. It works better than advertised!"

Guy who doesn't get UTT: "Oh HI, Newegg. I seem to have some trouble getting this RAM to work with my system. Could I possibly RMA it for a full refund? Thanks."

[TimoneX]

[QUOTE=TimoneX]That is NOT speed premium.

This is NOT speed premium, but most people report getting UTT chips. The TMII kits have 50D chips on all as far as I know.

This is speed premium:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-405&depa=1

QUOTE]
But those aren't a dual channal kit. Does anyone sell the dual channel Speed premiums?

Nope. No kits, but the net effect is to just jack up shipping price. "Matched" kits have never made any difference in my experience, and as a matter of fact the two TMSP modules I ordered seperately are more closely matched than either of my OCZ kits were.

[kiljaden5]

You'd be suprised. Right now your odds are slim to none. But the premium Twinmos and you will get UTT
you mean chances of getting a non-UTT are slim to none with the non-SP ones?

[Sentential]

you mean chances of getting a non-UTT are slim to none with the non-SP ones?
From my understanding of the matter, abeit I am NOT positive. Current Twinmos is being for the most part directally pulled from the winbond silicon being produced by Infineon in their fabs. So I would say the odds of not getting UTT are slim to none with any of the stuff found at newegg..

[g0dM@n]

So the 512 pc3200 twinmos from newegg should be UTT you're saying? If so, I may just grab one and take the chance. If it's not I can hold onto it and sell it to a customer for a MINOR loss.

[Sentential]

So the 512 pc3200 twinmos from newegg should be UTT you're saying?
Im not 100% positive, but if you are gonna go for any crapshoot THIS would be the one to bet on.

[alpal]

I just picked up a pair, hopefully I will get results like others have. :)

[hawtrawkr]

Okay, where do you find the TwinMos Speed Premium? All I see at Newegg are these:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=1
I am figuring these are not the right ones.

kinda throws you for a loop when you see the price on a pair of 512x2 vx

course it does have a lifetime warranty.
but then again you could all but buy 2 1gig kits of the twinmos in case something happend to one.

[TimoneX]

TMSP has a lifetime warranty as well. I'd put more faith in OCZ's warranty though, particularly since it's up to 3.5v.

Anyone planning on running their TMSP at anything under 3v? :santa:

[Sentential]

Anyone planning on running their TMSP at anything under 3v? :santa:
Ummmm .... lol no. That aint gonna happen on these forums.

[TimoneX]

I'd think they'd get alot hotter than they do. I put a 92mm fan over them, but even without it they're not all that hot even seeing 3.4v+. I believe they're cooler than my TCCD was at 2.7v. They must have drastically different power consumption profiles. Perhaps higher resistance to current flow than TCCD.

[Sentential]

I'd think they'd get alot hotter than they do. I put a 92mm fan over them, but even without it they're not all that hot even seeing 3.4v+. I believe they're cooler than my TCCD was at 2.7v. They must have drastically different power consumption profiles. Perhaps higher resistance to current flow than TCCD.
Thats just typical winbond tech, no one is really sure why they dont get hot. Perhaps a older process?

[TimoneX]

Perhaps. I know TCCD is unusual in that it has unusually low resistance and as a result dislikes voltage as much as it does. I know the sticks I had would get really hot at anything over 2.75v in memtest and I was measuring only 2.55v at that point.

Yer toys got delayed a couple days sen? I know yer chomping at the bit. :)

[SteveOCZ]

Thats just typical winbond tech, no one is really sure why they dont get hot. Perhaps a older process?

They don't draw as much current :clap:

[Sentential]

They don't draw as much current :clap:
Well even if its being made by a buncha idiots <Infineon> I guess they didnt **** it up too badly. ;)

[TimoneX]

To put it mildly. :)

I think the stuff is fantastic.

[rseven]

Ummmm .... lol no. That aint gonna happen on these forums.
Well, actually...uhmmmm....I way have to run them at 2.85 till I can afford get the OC Booster. The truth be known I ble my ram budget on a flat screenlcd monitor. My logic was at least I'd see a difference betwween that and my CRT. The difference between 512mb of ram and 1 nig of ram is bit more obscure. Dear lord of ramdom please forgive my trespass against thee! LOL (Please no emails, no religious sacrilege was meant or implied. I was just being silly, which I am frequently)

[kiljaden5]

From my understanding of the matter, abeit I am NOT positive. Current Twinmos is being for the most part directally pulled from the winbond silicon being produced by Infineon in their fabs. So I would say the odds of not getting UTT are slim to none with any of the stuff found at newegg..

would this mean that
http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/productdetails.asp?submit=property&item=20-218-062
is also UTT?

I heard from a few sources that chiefvalue is a sister company to newegg (it makes sense too considering same stock numbers, same items in stock, etc)... myself living in NJ, chiefvalue saves me about $15 in shipping and tax charged newegg would charge

[Sentential]

would this mean that
http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/productdetails.asp?submit=property&item=20-218-062
is also UTT?

I heard from a few sources that chiefvalue is a sister company to newegg (it makes sense too considering same stock numbers, same items in stock, etc)... myself living in NJ, chiefvalue saves me about $15 in shipping and tax charged newegg would charge
Yes to all of the above. ;)

[kiljaden5]

man, gotta order tonight..

downside of this, I can't stall adjusting the 3.3v rail in my psu anymore after getting this ram (at current setting my dfi only goes up to 3.2vdimm) :beer:

[TimoneX]

Did everyone see this already?

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_el_ddr_pc_4000_dual_channel_gold_vx

KEWL :D

[Sentential]

Did everyone see this already?

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_el_ddr_pc_4000_dual_channel_gold_vx

KEWL :D
Its just binned UTT, nothing more. Anyone wanna bet they are gonna charge $280+?

[mattspalace]

I was thinking about $350 myself, but I bet they are a good $300 for a 1GB set.

[TimoneX]

Its just binned UTT, nothing more. Anyone wanna bet they are gonna charge $280+?

This I realize, but it still represents an impressive level of guaranteed performance.

Even if it does cost $280 I believe I'd take it over g.skill LE or platinum rev2.

[FarzBar]

Hello everyone. Hello Sen. Thanks for the information. And great job on the nf7-s. You seem to be the man with all the info all over this forum. I'm sorry about your xp with amd.Good luck on your Pentium. I'm just a noob, so not sure if I should even post this or even on this thread. Sorry if I shouldn't.

I was wondering if there is any info on the reliability of these twinmos under high voltage. The reason for asking is this:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=350856&page=10&pp=30

I do believe they were running their twinmos under 3.5v, don't know about xs though.

[bobmanfoo]

isn't this old news about winbond UTT?

[rseven]

I heard from a few sources that chiefvalue is a sister company to newegg (it makes sense too considering same stock numbers, same items in stock, etc)... myself living in NJ, chiefvalue saves me about $15 in shipping and tax charged newegg would charge
Sorry, but I'm in NJ too and have already ordered from chiefvalue and they also charge salestax. (I had been figuring the same thing, but no such luck) I spoke to a ChiefValue rep who said they are not connected to Newegg, and your guess is as good as mine as to whether that's true.

[Sentential]

Hello everyone. Hello Sen. Thanks for the information. And great job on the nf7-s. You seem to be the man with all the info all over this forum. I'm sorry about your xp with amd.Good luck on your Pentium. I'm just a noob, so not sure if I should even post this or even on this thread. Sorry if I shouldn't.

I was wondering if there is any info on the reliability of these twinmos under high voltage. The reason for asking is this:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=350856&page=10&pp=30

I do believe they were running their twinmos under 3.5v, don't know about xs though.
Yes with a solid 3.5v they should do 2-2-2 @ 250ish very reliabily. As for you:

WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!!!

There are no stupid questions here and we all have to start from some place;) Glad you made yours here. Hope you feel at home on OCF

[Sentential]

I spoke to a ChiefValue rep who said they are not connected to Newegg, and your guess is as good as mine as to whether that's true.
Oh thats a bunch of bull**** lol..... look at their RMAs. They all go through newegg directally ;)

[FarzBar]

Thanks for the info and welcome :)

[TimoneX]

Their product lines are remarkably similar to newegg's as well. :p

[JDizzle]

Someone also confirmed that these ADATAs (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-211-119&depa=0) and this (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-211-116&depa=0) were also Winbond UTT. It seems like a cheaper alternative to the Twinmos stuff and it's on Brainpower PCB. The person who bought a stick was only able to achieve 230FSB 2-2-2-5 though. Anyone else willing to give them a try?


Geil, Ultra series, I got a pair too.
Patriot, the IC rebranded to Liberty, I will have this pair later.
When I got a good Winny chips, I will do round up all the UTT I have, will see which better!

Let us know how that goes Diablo! Oh, and where did you get them and for how much?

[rseven]

Hey Farzbar, I read that thread you linked as you get down to the bottom two of them had one of their TwinMos sticks die! Back to the drawing board for me.

[bobmanfoo]

Hey Farzbar, I read that thread you linked as you get down to the bottom two of them had one of their TwinMos sticks die! Back to the drawing board for me.
actually it didn't die on me, i got fed up with the ram and just went out and get VX instead, i got the twinmos to run fine a week later when i tried it again :D

[FarzBar]

[/QUOTE]actually it didn't die on me, i got fed up with the ram and just went out and get VX instead, i got the twinmos to run fine a week later when i tried it again [QUOTE]

Glad to hear that it didn't die. Can I ask you what made you think that it had died?

And

How does it perform comparable to your VX?

Edit: P.S. sorry about that [Quote], How you guys get quote box?

[rseven]

Edit: P.S. sorry about that How you guys get quote box?
Just click on the Quote shortcut at the bottom right of the post.

[TimoneX]

Edit: P.S. sorry about that [Quote], How you guys get quote box?

You did it backwards. The "/quote" box comes last not first.

[rseven]

Just fixed it. Somedays I don't know up from dowm.:)

[FarzBar]

Edit: P.S. sorry about that
Just click on the Quote shortcut at the bottom right of the post.

ahhh. Thx rseven :clap:

[bobmanfoo]

i thought it died because my rig would not boot with one of the sticks no matter what, this happened after i switched the psu off

[FarzBar]

thx timone. yeah, I just hit that wrap quote button and let it do its thing. I like this hitting quote button on the bottom of the person's post, much easier.

[rseven]

Farzbar you earned your first star!

[FarzBar]

Wow,yay, thx :)

[Moto7451]

As I remember AMD specifies that the VDIMM should be no higher than 2.9v on A64s. Does this mean that it could be potentially dangerous to do a volt mod that will give you, say 3.3v VDIMM on a board not designed for a high VDIMM like the Chaintech board & others Or is that guideline just a safety precaution?

[hitechjb1]

As I remember AMD specifies that the VDIMM should be no higher than 2.9v on A64s. Does this mean that it could be potentially dangerous to do a volt mod that will give you, say 3.3v VDIMM on a board not designed for a high VDIMM like the Chaintech board & others Or is that guideline just a safety precaution?

I have this concern from day 1, but still did not get a chance to look into it further. Currently, I only need 2.8 V for TCCD.

The AMD tech doc specifies the max of the A64 DRAM Interface Reference Voltage (MEMVREF) is 2.9 V.

Whether the high VDIMM from the motherboard would directly affect the DRAM Interface Reference Voltage (MEMVREF) at the pins of the A64 chips should be looked into.


Originally posted by hitechjb1
Besides the performance comparison, these are some pros and cons for BH-5/UTT vs TCCD.
- The TCCD modules which require less voltage would lessen concern about chip reliably due to the high 3.3+ V, especially medium to long term impact (if any) of such voltage level on the CPU's memory controller interface (Vmemref).
- The TCCD modules offer a wider range of memory frequency and timing for tweaking, from 200 - 300+ MHz, cas 2/2.5/3 (if motherboard allows).
- On the other hand, the frequency of around 250 MHz for 2-2-2-5 1T memory modules is more easily achievable in many setups for top performance vs the 300+ MHz for 2.5-3-3-7 1T memory.

[bobmanfoo]

As I remember AMD specifies that the VDIMM should be no higher than 2.9v on A64s. Does this mean that it could be potentially dangerous to do a volt mod that will give you, say 3.3v VDIMM on a board not designed for a high VDIMM like the Chaintech board & others Or is that guideline just a safety precaution?
dunno, but i vdimm modded my MSi neo2 plat to 3.3v before i got a booster then fed it a constant 3.5v, now i have my dfi that i feed 3.4v 24/7, so no problems here so far, no drop in cpu OC, nothing

[Sentential]

dunno, but i vdimm modded my MSi neo2 plat to 3.3v before i got a booster then fed it a constant 3.5v, now i have my dfi that i feed 3.4v 24/7, so no problems here so far, no drop in cpu OC, nothing
Thats a very good sign. AFAIK the vdimm killing CPUs was only an issue on a few rare Nforce 150 boards

[mkfosgate]

I just picked up a pair, hopefully I will get results like others have. :)

hey, where did you find the twinmos at? Ive had a reminder set on newegg for both of my email accounts. It said they were to arrive yesterday, but when i got on this morning, i had no email, and it now said they would arrive on 2.27.2005

[TimoneX]

If they actually got any they disappeared around 3am EST.

[HousERaT]

hey, where did you find the twinmos at? Ive had a reminder set on newegg for both of my email accounts. It said they were to arrive yesterday, but when i got on this morning, i had no email, and it now said they would arrive on 2.27.2005

If you want to get them at newegg you best be prepared to check the website every hour or so and and hope to get lucky to see them when they're in stock.... they last about 30 minutes before being sold out again.

[mkfosgate]

Well, if they came back into stock, why didnt i get a reminder, on EITHER of my email accounts?

[TimoneX]

I didn't get one either. Think they sell out too fast. I'm not sure they're ever shown as "in stock" on some of these occasions. Seems like it just goes from an ETA to no stock.

[Jiveseed]

LOL, all most all online computer parts stores are the same company. Well not really but MOST OF THEM share about 6 huge warehouses. I found a site that uses real time stock checks on all 6 warehouses (pretty cool format).

POINT OF SALE PURCHASE!!!!!! = CHEAP (At least when the whole world isnt after the same thing, i.e. DFI NF4 SLi-dr)

[Sentential]

Just as a heads up it appears these UTT dies are being shifted to a smaller process. Perhaps this is why my friends in the dram industry contacted Winbond ... hmmmm Ill ask about that today

[mkfosgate]

What warehouse are they going threw? Is it some type of reseller company?

[mkfosgate]

Just as a heads up it appears these UTT dies are being shifted to a smaller process. Perhaps this is why my friends in the dram industry contacted Winbond ... hmmmm Ill ask about that today

What do you meen a smaller process?

[Sentential]

What warehouse are they going threw? Is it some type of reseller company?
The UTT are being manufactured by Infineon in their fab facility <dont know where> for the purpose of being repackaged/binned by Adata and Twinmos.

Im under the impression that OCZ gets their stock from Adata ;) Im not sure which sticks tho but I asked last night for serials and code IDs for the UTT. Hopefully Ill get an anwser

[Sentential]

What do you meen a smaller process?
I mean just that they are using a smaller fabrication method for their ICs now much like the transisition from Newcastle to Winchester.

[mkfosgate]

The UTT are being manufactured by Infineon in their fab facility <dont know where> for the purpose of being repackaged/binned by Adata and Twinmos.

Im under the impression that OCZ gets their stock from Adata ;) Im not sure which sticks tho but I asked last night for serials and code IDs for the UTT. Hopefully Ill get an anwser

No, i think he meant as to where they get ALL of their parts. Not just the chips.

[mkfosgate]

I mean just that they are using a smaller fabrication method for their ICs now much like the transisition from Newcastle to Winchester.

Is that a good thing? Seems like it would be good since the winchester was a good thing.

[mkfosgate]

Oh yeah, one more thing. Is it the dual channel speed premiums that are coming with the utt chips, or just the ddr? And how can you tell if its got utt on it? Isnt there something with adtt?

[TimoneX]

Oh yeah, one more thing. Is it the dual channel speed premiums that are coming with the utt chips, or just the ddr? And how can you tell if its got utt on it? Isnt there something with adtt?

There are no dual channel speed premiums kits to my knowledge. UTT chips have a sticker on them that says AA4T.

[Sentential]

No, i think he meant as to where they get ALL of their parts. Not just the chips.
Yea afaik Adata is OCZ's primary supplier for not just the UTT. Could be wrong but im pretty sure that is the case. I know Adata does alot of rebinning for the big guys like Kingston and Corsair. Im also under the impression that they do alot of work for OCZ as well.

As for the die shrink it should be just fine. Hopefully if the transition goes well it should drop the voltage req low enough for 2.9v usage. Which would be a good thing if its possible.

From what I know the vast majority of any Twinmos sticks you will pick up contain UTT. The concentration is so high its like shooting fish in a barrel. You might not get it but the odds are low enough that i'd take a shot at it.

[Sentential]

There are no dual channel speed premiums kits to my knowledge. UTT chips have a sticker on them that says AA4T.
AFIAK the UTT isnt limited to just the premiums and there are several IDs that contain UTT. AA4T is just one of the many ;)

[mkfosgate]

what is adtt? It was on the pic on twinmos's website.

Do any of you know a good company that has a reseller program?

[TimoneX]

what is adtt? It was on the pic on twinmos's website.

Do any of you know a good company that has a reseller program?

ADTT seems to indicate non-UTT chips. Everyone that's gotten ADTT sticks gets poor results.

[Sentential]

As for the Adata comment I can almost promise you that the "value" rams by Gskill, Corsair and OCZ are definatly Adata based

what is adtt? It was on the pic on twinmos's website.

Do any of you know a good company that has a reseller program?
No I dont, not offhand. Could ask tho. was there anything in peticular you were looking for? I know The Stilit gets his stuff for reselling directally from Twinmos Europe

[Sentential]

ADTT seems to indicate non-UTT chips. Everyone that's gotten ADTT sticks gets poor results.
Its not that its not non-UTT based, its just bad binned UTT. Like I said the yeilds are just crap. Doent make it non-UTT, just makes it bad RAM. Gotta remember that alot of guys are using the base designs taken from BH5 / CH5 after Winbond liquidated its assets 2 years ago. So it may also be non-Winbond but still using the UTT design.

[mkfosgate]

Well, I got my state id tax number a few weeks ago, and ive been looking for a company that has a good reseller program. I looked avus, but their prices arent worth trying.

If I could find a supplier that supplies all kinds of memory, at decent prices, id go for that. Especially if they carried twinmos.

I wonder where newegg, and everyone else gets their products from???

[Sentential]

Well, I got my state id tax number a few weeks ago, and ive been looking for a company that has a good reseller program. I looked avus, but their prices arent worth trying.

If I could find a supplier that supplies all kinds of memory, at decent prices, id go for that. Especially if they carried twinmos.

I wonder where newegg, and everyone else gets their products from???
Have you spoken with Twinmos directally? Im sure they have a program setup to find you a distributer

[TimoneX]

Its not that its not non-UTT based, its just bad binned UTT. Like I said the yeilds are just crap. Doent make it non-UTT, just makes it bad RAM. Gotta remember that alot of guys are using the base designs taken from BH5 / CH5 after Winbond liquidated its assets 2 years ago. So it may also be non-Winbond but still using the UTT design.

If you say so bro. Everyone I've ever seen that's gotten twinmos sticks that say ADTT on them has gotten ram that shows completely different characteristics. I recieved two that said AADT on them myself and no amount of voltage could make them do 2-2-2-5 at DDR400. Doesn't sound like the same chips to me at all.

[Sentential]

If you say so bro. Everyone I've ever seen that's gotten twinmos sticks that say ADTT on them has gotten ram that shows completely different characteristics. I recieved two that said AADT on them myself and no amount of voltage could make them do 2-2-2-5 at DDR400. Doesn't sound like the same chips to me at all.
Like I said man, it doesnt make much sense I know, but they are very admant in saying that there are several types of UTT. Same base design but only the winbond ones can do the full 2-2-2. Mosel has been using the UTT design for a long time now. hell even some of their stuff is capable of 2-2-2 abeit not very fsat but still.

However only the winbond ones can do what you all would consider UTT.

[mkfosgate]

Have you spoken with Twinmos directally? Im sure they have a program setup to find you a distributer

Yeah, i call their california office, and noone answers the phone, same with the operator. I have no idea who to call regarding twinmos, or ANY type of distributor when it comes to memory.


Just think, If i can find a distributor, discounts all around!!! :D

[darkknight187]

sounds like the sort of thing that you would definately want to be able to cherry pick to make sure you get the best shot....although it sounds like a straight shot it would suck for me to buy more value priced ram that does no better than my patriot value ram

[mkfosgate]

Have any of you heard of the wholsaler network registery? Im just curious what this is all about.

[Catchfrase]

Oh thats a bunch of bull**** lol..... look at their RMAs. They all go through newegg directally ;)


Also look at sales tax:

ChiefValue http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/pricingpay.asp#shipdel

and

Newegg http://www2.newegg.com/CustomerService/FAQDetail.asp?Module=2

They both charge tax in CA, TN, PR and NJ.

As far as I know companies only have to charge the tax in states where they have a physical location.

[g0dM@n]

Edit: P.S. sorry about that
[quote]
, How you guys get quote box?


You did it backwards. The "/quote" box comes last not first.

LOL, you tried to assist him, but your quote got messed up too. "QUOTE=FazBar"... hehe! :clap:

[g0dM@n]

Just fixed it. Somedays I don't know up from dowm.:)

LOL! You still don't!!! DOWM! Somedays I think they should make the keyboard buttons bigger! :D

[SteveOCZ]

Well even if its being made by a buncha idiots <Infineon> I guess they didnt **** it up too badly. ;)


Seems like it. Man you seem to know more about this UTT stuff that me....I need some connections too :beer:

[Sentential]

Seems like it. Man you seem to know more about this UTT stuff that me....I need some connections too :beer:
LOL..... I hope you are kidding :eek: Wouldn't be good to not know your own product line :D Plus since you guys are apparentally bound under an NDA Ive got to rely on 2nd hand information. However Im confident these people know what they are talking about ;)

[JDizzle]

Just think, If i can find a distributor, discounts all around!!! :D

Lets hope you do find one. UTT is already cheap, but if you're going to offer a discount on stuff that's just $120 a gig, I might have to ditch my TCCD.

[g0dM@n]

Dibs!!!

[rseven]

LOL..... I hope you are kidding :eek: Wouldn't be good to not know your own product line :D Plus since you guys are apparentally bound under an NDA Ive got to rely on 2nd hand information. However Im confident these people know what they are talking about ;)
I always say, "You have to keep your ear to the ground if you want to pick up the dirt!" However, I advise using Q-tips! Sen, you do good work. I hope you do the same in school.

[Reefa_Madness]

Its not that its not non-UTT based, its just bad binned UTT. Like I said the yeilds are just crap. Doent make it non-UTT, just makes it bad RAM. Gotta remember that alot of guys are using the base designs taken from BH5 / CH5 after Winbond liquidated its assets 2 years ago. So it may also be non-Winbond but still using the UTT design.


I've been reading this thread from the beginning and I'm going to tell you that in my opinion it is full of misinformation and just plain wrong information.

For starters, the ADTT based TwinMOS uses Powerchip ICs not "bad binned" UTT. It does not have the Winbond dimples, it does not have the staples on the sides and it does not have the small hole in the lower left hand corner...all Winbond, whether bh-5, bh-6, ch-5, or UTT has those physical attributes. This information, as to which chips are in the Speed Premium, has been known, verified and substantiated by numerous TwinMOS sources that are not "un-named". It is not all based on UTT.

I'm not going to tell anyone what to believe nor what to buy, but in all honesty, when it comes to ram, I've never been very impressed with people who come out with outrageous comments and proclaims them to be truths.

Give me hard facts, or give me your opinion, but don't confuse the two. Second-hand hearsay from un-named sources is not fact...

[Sentential]

Little update:

Finding out more information concerning UTT. UTT is infact its actual name. Lemme try to clarify the issue:

Infineon makes the UTT modules. To avoid paying tariffs on the modules which is about 15% they leave the modules unbinned unmarked and then sell them.

These unbinned modules can and are used in a wide variety of Infineon/Mosel products but most people dont know them because they are normally binned and given a label.

With UTT they are blank and leave the reseller to manually bin the RAM. Thus the ICs are either hit or miss. Frankly im a little confused as to how this is legal but apparentally according to what this perons says it happens all the time and is "buisness as usual"

[TimoneX]

Whether AADT is winbond UTT or no, it's always garbage as far as I can tell. The sticks I received w/ AADT on them did not have any dimples on them. I'd tend to think this indicates a manufacturer other than winbond, but it's largely unimportant. What is important is that people should be avoiding sticks that say AADT on them if they want good overclocking TMSP sticks.

[g0dM@n]

Okay, so when a good deal comes up and you guys know they are good chips can you tell us? LOL... please? :cool:

[SteveOCZ]

LOL..... I hope you are kidding :eek: Wouldn't be good to not know your own product line :D Plus since you guys are apparentally bound under an NDA Ive got to rely on 2nd hand information. However Im confident these people know what they are talking about ;)

Well I have nothing to do with the product dev or production so they don't tell me about this stuff unless I ask.....or they think I need to know. I don't honnestly know what the chips in the VX are, but I guess I could find out if I wanted to.

Steve

[mkfosgate]

Well I have nothing to do with the product dev or production so they don't tell me about this stuff unless I ask.....or they think I need to know. I don't honnestly know what the chips in the VX are, but I guess I could find out if I wanted to.

Steve

Hey, im just curious if you are an owner, or something along those lines of a memory type company.

[TimoneX]

Perhaps steveOCZ works for a memory company? :beer:

[g0dM@n]

He meant it to be OCF for OCForums. It's a typo.

[Rustafur]

lol godm@n, and speaking of fat-fingering... I meant to type Russell for my name :(

[g0dM@n]

Roflcopter!

[rseven]

g0dm@n and Rustafur?
I'll have what their drinking!

[Sentential]

Well I have nothing to do with the product dev or production so they don't tell me about this stuff unless I ask.....or they think I need to know. I don't honnestly know what the chips in the VX are, but I guess I could find out if I wanted to.

Steve


<Taken from XS, I hope this clarifies>

Yes they did. I got a little more clarification today. Here's the *real* issue at hand.

Any forign semi-conductor that is bought in the USA is taxed like a mother****er

What happens is that Infineon produces the base ICs for Winbond. Winbond then rebadges/packages them in what small fabs they have. They tweek em and get em going.

Then to avoid tariffs and taxations they do not bin them or lable them their tru form "Infineon".

If its Infineon it immediatly gets a 15% tariff, for Hynix its as high as 57%

Winbond sells the bare ICs to their good buds at Twinmos and pocket the 15% for themselves since the bare ICs are non-taxable. Overall its pretty shady but according to my sources its just "buisness as usual"

Btw there is no name for this stuff other than its pure code name "UTT". It is neither Infineon OR winbond because it isnt binned by them.

THink of it this way. All winbond is doing is selling repackaged Infineon chips by the lot. Twinmos buys them and bins them accordingly. Some do very well most dont.

Ive asked for what micron they are using and expect that to come soon. But yes Infineon's fabs are going to a smaller die process, Ill find out what as well..

However the REALLY interesting fact is this.... what were those base ICs to be used in Infineon RAM? Since they are UTT based technically we should start seeing Infineon sticks that do UTT timings and voltage. Perhaps not as good but it should be a clear sign

___________________

[Edited post for clarity] Gimme a break spent the last 6 hrs at work and had 5 classes today. Sen = So tired

Infineon makes the bare / base ICs and winbond beefs them up and repackeges them. Thats how UTT is made.

Producer = Infineon
Repackager = Winbond

From what I understand this is all done in the same factory since Infineon aquired almost all of Winbond's dram assets and then split em with Mosel

Its no differnt than buying reved up CTD50 from Adata. Ya'll know what i mean

______________________

Winbond liquidated their assets and Infineon *bought* them. Infact if I recall they are operating out of the same fab factory that once produced BH5

_______________________

Winbond is NOT a dram manufacturer anymore, they are simply repackaging the RAM for Twinmos and then later Adata. It was never designed to be BH5 part 2. It was purely to evade the 15% tariff that is placed on all Infineon products

If anything Winbond is helping Infineon and NOT the other way around

[SteveOCZ]

Hey, im just curious if you are an owner, or something along those lines of a memory type company.

I work for OCZ, but I'm not the owner :burn:

[Reefa_Madness]

http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Optoelectronic-Component/a/9000000055550.htm


Quote from above linked news release back in August:

"Taiwan – Winbond Electronics Corp. recently started producing untested DRAM chips. According to sources, Winbond had planned to reallocate 10,000 8-inch equivalent wafers per month from pseudo SRAM (PSRAM) to produce DRAM for InfineonTechnologies Co. Ltd. However, as Infineon used only part of the capacity, Winbond is now producing UTT chips with the unbooked capacity."


Sure appears to me like they are still producing DRAM. You believe whatever you want to believe. As I've stated before, I've seen nothing but second hand information from un-named sources.

With all due respects, but this is from the same person that claimed he KNEW what chips where being used by OCZ in their VX, (first Hynix or something, then Mosel, then ProMOS), also the person that claimed he had the very first "D" revision of the Micron chip used after the "-5B C". In all cases, Sen, you have may these huge, bold claims and none were supported by a single stich of proof. You may be right, but unless you can show me something for proof, I'll fall back on your previous track record when it comes to making bold claims about ram. So far your track record with making ram claims, simply, sucks.

If you were my student, and this was your research project, I'd flunk you.

[Sentential]

http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Optoelectronic-Component/a/9000000055550.htm


Quote from above linked news release back in August:

"Taiwan – Winbond Electronics Corp. recently started producing untested DRAM chips. According to sources, Winbond had planned to reallocate 10,000 8-inch equivalent wafers per month from pseudo SRAM (PSRAM) to produce DRAM for InfineonTechnologies Co. Ltd. However, as Infineon used only part of the capacity, Winbond is now producing UTT chips with the unbooked capacity."


Sure appears to me like they are still producing DRAM. You believe whatever you want to believe. As I've stated before, I've seen nothing but second hand information from un-named sources.

With all due respects, but this is from the same person that claimed he KNEW what chips where being used by OCZ in their VX, (first Hynix or something, then Mosel, then ProMOS), also the person that claimed he had the very first "D" revision of the Micron chip used after the "-5B C". In all cases, Sen, you have may these huge, bold claims and none were supported by a single stich of proof. You may be right, but unless you can show me something for proof, I'll fall back on your previous track record when it comes to making bold claims about ram. So far your track record with making ram claims, simply, sucks.

If you were my student, and this was your research project, I'd flunk you.

:rolleyes: Would you prefer that I say nothing at all?

Frankly I do not understand all the facts that I am given to it is more or less filtered second hand info. However making a jab at me isnt exactally a good way to improve things.

Im trying thats all I can do. Im trying to get as much detail as I can but frankly there isnt much because its not exactally legal <as I see it>

AFAIK Winbond is only acting as a repackager, perhaps this has recentally changed as they move to a smaller die process, frankly I dont know

[g0dM@n]

Reefa... I suggest you be more polite about the situation. He is giving information, as well as being very professional and respectful about it. In my opinion, if I may say, I would recommend you show some respect towards him. Sen is a VERY respected member, and has been of the utmost extreme in aiding me in my own situations, whether it be with information or with basic tweaking. Give the man the respect he deserves, and express yourself in a more respectful, and professional manner. Had I been him I would have been p|ssed. Opinions are valued, not harsh knockdowns.

[eobard]

Been a while since I posted in the memory section.

Hi everyone, I'm thread monitoring. :)

[hawtrawkr]

Been a while since I posted in the memory section.

Hi everyone, I'm thread monitoring. :)

you may soon need to edit your sig. the semi-active may quickly become just active

[eobard]

Actually thats just a reflection of the fact that I haven't the same amount of time to dedicate to the forums that I once did (and feel it deserves) but I'm still around a fair amount, but the members deserve to know that I may not always be able to respond to PMs or such at the drop of a hat.

[JDizzle]

Reefa... I suggest you be more polite about the situation. He is giving information, as well as being very professional and respectful about it. In my opinion, if I may say, I would recommend you show some respect towards him. Sen is a VERY respected member, and has been of the utmost extreme in aiding me in my own situations, whether it be with information or with basic tweaking. Give the man the respect he deserves, and express yourself in a more respectful, and professional manner. Had I been him I would have been p|ssed. Opinions are valued, not harsh knockdowns.


Reefa_Master is also a respected member here at OC forums, especially around here in the memory section. I think he's just a little skeptical because Sentential has no proof and that article actually states otherwise. Weren't we the ones that told OC550 he needs to stop making claims w/o proof over in the video card section?

Offtopic: Reefa, were you playing CS:S today? I was in the same server with someone with the exact same handle.

[eobard]

Reefa_Master is also a respected member here at OC forums, especially around here in the memory section. I think he's just a little skeptical because Sentential has no proof and that article actually states otherwise. Weren't we the ones that told OC550 he needs to stop making claims w/o proof over in the video card section?

I'm not going to tell anyone who to believe and who not to believe, all I'm saying is the rules will be respected. g0dm@n suggested members approach others with politeness and recommended treating others with respect, and he did it in a respectful and non-confrontational manner too. Nothing wrong with that in my book. I think thats something we all need to make sure we remember. Civility while overclocking is what keeps us from becoming just one more cesspool clogging the internet.

[g0dM@n]

:) Can we all hug? :p Just kidding... I'll go hug a tree.

[rseven]

You wood! :)

[Xenocide]

He meant it to be OCF for OCForums. It's a typo.

EGGOROFFELZ!

:eh?:

[eobard]

:) Can we all hug? :p Just kidding... I'll go hug a tree.
Get a haircut ya hippie (tree hugger)!

[NO LIFE]

this thread has declined quickly...finger pointing, mod flexing, tree hugging, hippie hating.

How hot does this stuff get? Is it safe to run high volts without heatsinks?

[Sentential]

this thread has declined quickly...finger pointing, mod flexing, tree hugging, hippie hating.

How hot does this stuff get? Is it safe to run high volts without heatsinks?
Its just fine. Its almost identical to BH5 when volted

[Reefa_Madness]

Reefa... I suggest you be more polite about the situation. He is giving information, as well as being very professional and respectful about it. In my opinion, if I may say, I would recommend you show some respect towards him. Sen is a VERY respected member, and has been of the utmost extreme in aiding me in my own situations, whether it be with information or with basic tweaking. Give the man the respect he deserves, and express yourself in a more respectful, and professional manner. Had I been him I would have been p|ssed. Opinions are valued, not harsh knockdowns.


Well, thank you for your motherly advise. I will give it every bit of consideration that it deserves.

There, I'm done.

[rseven]

Well, thank you for your motherly advise. I will give it every bit of consideration that it deserves.

There, I'm done.
Sarcasm is not exactly civility! :mad:

[NO LIFE]

Sarcasm is not exactly civility!

But its damn funny. I agree with ya reefa. All of this should be taken with an oversized grain of salt, pardon the cliche.

[eobard]

Private warnings have been sent. Any more problems here and I will hand out bannings.

[NO LIFE]

Hammer Down!!

So are these ETAs at newegg ever correct, or do they randomly have a few sets in stock at totally random times?

[TimoneX]

The later. The two times I've gotten TMSP from newegg it was before the ETA indicated. I believe a few sticks showed up in the wee morning hours of the 23rd, despite the ETA of the 22nd. Basically I wouldn't put any stock in the ETA or the auto notify if you're trying to land some TMSP. They're gone before notifications are sent out.

[Duonger]

Well I have nothing to do with the product dev or production so they don't tell me about this stuff unless I ask.....or they think I need to know. I don't honnestly know what the chips in the VX are, but I guess I could find out if I wanted to.

Steve

You d`man steve... LOL

Tom

[Reefa_Madness]

I would like to take this time to apologize to all of you guys for my taking the thread down into the level that I did.

I was out of line and I would like to believe, also out of character, by making personal attacks, and for those, I specifically apologize to Sen.

[SteveOCZ]

Sentential it looks like Ryan is posting some info on the VX you may want to see

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54168

[rseven]

I would like to take this time to apologize to all of you guys for my taking the thread down into the level that I did.

I was out of line and I would like to believe, also out of character, by making personal attacks, and for those, I specifically apologize to Sen.
Okay, Reefa, that's what I call class. :thup:

[g0dM@n]

Get a haircut ya hippie (tree hugger)!

Oh my god. That is hilarious. I actually got a haircut during the time of that post. I went to get a haircut directly after work, and since it snowed I didn't get to the mall until an HOUR after I left work (normally 30min). I left work at 6:15, so I was getting a haircut around 7:15. Damn, these ocforums mods must REALLY know everything that goes on around here!!!

----------------------------------------------------------

Reefa: It takes a real man to stand up for himself, but it takes a BIGGER man to apologize. I respect that, Reefa... even though it had nothing to do with me. Sorry about the complications. :)

Hey, so can I have a link to the RAM that you guys are looking at specifically? Perhaps a link from newegg should do it. I want to have it in my auto-notify, but I'm not sure EXACTLY which one you guys are looking at.

I've looked at, I believe, the ADATA? Then again you guys speak more highly of Twinmos, etc...

[rseven]

gOdm@n, you get a haircut and miss everything! (lol) They are now talking abou UTT in OCZ value ram. Steve is working on a link. Stay tuned to this station for further updates.

[HousERaT]

new linky for the OCZ Value ram from the other thread.

http://www.atacom.com/program/atacom.cgi?SEARCH=SEARCH_ALL&ordered_number=&KEYWORDS=MEDD_OCZT_AG_C2+&Disp_item2.x=4&Disp_item2.y=7

[g0dM@n]

Should I buy that???

[HousERaT]

Should I buy that???

sure, why not? it's only money..... :p My early testing on the NF2 arcitecture hasn't been great. Gonna do a VTT mod on my board tonight to see how much more stable it is..... forget about the UTT memory unless you have at least 3v to use...... couldn't even get the systemt to boot at 2-2-2-11 unless I had 3v..... got my booster and all is good at 3v however getting it stable beyond 200MHz hasn't been much fun yet.

[g0dM@n]

Well, dude... I still have my nf7 that you see in my sig. It's sitting on my desk at home with the 2600-M and sp97 still mounted. Are you sure this is UTT??? And if it is what voltages/timings/fsb should I expect...

[rseven]

Should I buy that???
I posted at that other thread that Atacom has a so-so resellers rating. You may want to wait till a more reputable place has it. (Wait! WTF am I saying!)LOL

[HousERaT]

i'm not sure if the OCZ-value ram is utt or not..... the folks who created that thread seem to think it is. I got twinmos (both kinds) with the utt chips. haven't done anything yet with the 50D chips.... will be doing more of that this weekend. I'm using the same board as you, which is why I made my earlier comment...... I'm struggling to believe right now that this high voltage stuff is gonna work as good as TCCD ram on the NF2 boards.

[bobmanfoo]

nf2 setups are fsb limited so why use tccd?

[g0dM@n]

Yeah, man... look at my sig... my TCCD couldn't do higher than 250fsb 2x512... plus it was CPC-off (EWWW). Houserat, did you notice my 2nd nf7 is not in my sig anymore? I sold it, hehe. My friend bought the 2x256 kingston value mt -5b c, my modded nf7, the 2600 IQYHA0401, and the slk800u for $260. =)

The other nf7 is dusting... :( I need ram for it, maybe UTT =)

[TimoneX]

I tested my twinmos TMSP sticks on my Abit AN7 and in 20mins had higher unbuffered(memtest) numbers than I ever had with TCCD on it. The board only goes to 3.2vdimm, but I got the TMSP sticks running up to DDR500 on it. It had no OS installed at the time though so I couldn't/didn't test stability only memtest runs. I tested it to determine if I wanted to grab some UTT sticks for it as well. :p

[HousERaT]

As has already been mentioned it's difficult to get high fsb on an NF2 board..... even harder to get decent fsb and low latancies.... even then you have to run 2T :( 244 1T is the best I've gotten and that's with my current TCCD setup.

[TimoneX]

Right so if you're going to be limited to 250ish on the FSB you might just as well go for the tight timings eh? :)

Assuming of course you can get enough voltage through the UTT sticks.

[HousERaT]

Right so if you're going to be limited to 250ish on the FSB you might just as well go for the tight timings eh? :)

Assuming of course you can get enough voltage through the UTT sticks.

Rest assured if you're gonna shoot for 250 fsb on an NF2 board with low timings you're gonna have to do some volt modding on the board..... ;) Probably a VTT mod and also on the northbridge.

[TimoneX]

Doesn't appear so, but I'll wait till I get more UTT memory in for my AN7 and install an OS before I officially challenge that. :p

More vdimm would definately help, but all it took to get from 220 to 245@2-2-2-5 was to change the bios from the official(garbage) 18 bios to enduracell's excellent de82t bios.

[g0dM@n]

I want to get my hands on this stuff, but only for cheap, of course. That link that showed it for like 145ish... I would take it for that if it DEFINITELY was the right stuff. It would worth modding a board for 260fsb 2-2-2... come on guys!

[TimoneX]

I got some on the way so I'll let you know how it goes. :p

It should be showing up at more vendors soon.

[g0dM@n]

Keep me updated, brotha... =)

[TimoneX]

You got it. Haven't dealt with atacom in years. In fact I still have the last thing I bought there. 2x366@550 (PII)celeries. LOL

[g0dM@n]

This was the first time I heard of them, so I wouldn't even know how they are.

[NO LIFE]

lol @ TimoneX!!

Dont be sayin your cheap anymore. :p

[TimoneX]

...but I am cheap. :)

I'm refurb this and sale price that on everything. If we can get guaranteed UTT w/ this OCZ stuff for the same price as possible 5ns UTT with Twinmos TMII kits then hey I'm all over that. I was gonna stick my PC4000EL kit in the AN7 before I decided to try out my UTT sticks on it. Since they did so well I'm thinking I can sell the PC4k kit and get some more UTT and break even or even come out slightly ahead on the deal. :)

[NO LIFE]

:D

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=20-146-900&DEPA=0

same stuff? reviews suck for it so probably not

[SteveOCZ]

Nope

[TimoneX]

It's supposed to have a "W" in the part # is it not Steve? I believe it's cheaper than that as well.

I have yet to see a pic of the stuff, couldn't find a reference on OCZ's site and atacom doesn't have one up. I assume it has the winbond "dimples" and likely sans heat spreaders at that price point.

OCZ4001024VDC-KW according to ryan on XS. I have no reason do doubt this information.

[kiljaden5]

i just received my twinmos non-SP

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=0

the chips are binned 50I (????)
and P/N ends in CADT

haven't tested yet but I doubt they'll do anything useful.. HA, i'm real happy

[g0dM@n]

What's non-SP? LOL... dude I feel like such a newb in this thread.

[TimoneX]

"DT" is bad from all I've heard. Good luck though.

[kiljaden5]

What's non-SP? LOL... dude I feel like such a newb in this thread.
non speed premium

so far i got 200mhz 2.5 3 3 8 @2.6v

weird thing is that its made just 2 weeks ago
week 6, 2005

could it be that UTT was just a temporary thing?

[TimoneX]

I think they're still mixing winbond & psc chips or perhaps as sen says they're all UTT and some are just awful and some are stellar. I'm having alot of trouble buying that explaination though, particularly since the "bad" chips I got were physically different and behaved completely differently. Do yours have "dimples"?

[kiljaden5]

wow this ram is crap, not even completely stable running from SPD, much less overclocked.... RMA and a shipping charge here I come

[TimoneX]

Dimples? No dimples?

[kiljaden5]

not the BH-5 type dimples, there is one dimple in the lower right corner of each chip, but not the same 2 dimples on each chip that my BH-5 has

[kiljaden5]

hopefully the next set they send me will be good, or at least work so I can sell it on ebay.... i'm so disappointed
here's to another week or more of waiting :beer:

[TimoneX]

Sorry bro, I got the same treatment once. Second time was a charm, so hopefully you'll get some gems.

[HousERaT]

hopefully the next set they send me will be good, or at least work so I can sell it on ebay.... i'm so disappointed
here's to another week or more of waiting :beer:

strange, since we got our ram at almost the same time...... mine was the 50D UTT chips.... Sorry to hear it didn't go well.

[woodsman]

TwinMos 512 is in at Newegg. woodsman

[TimoneX]

They actually got notifications out this time!!!

It's even remained in stock for over 15mins.

[woodsman]

Gone, it tuff to be broke

[g0dM@n]

You guys are gonna laugh, but last night I had a dream, and it was weird. First of all I was at a computer store warehouse (HUGE PLACE). I think it was supposed to be newegg, but I'm not sure. Anyways, I put a kit of ram in my pocket, so that I wouldn't have to hold it while I shopped. I forgot to pay, and I left. I then looked at the ram and for some reason it was HUGE! It was like the size of 2 dimms width-wise, and like 4 dimms height-wise, and it was bendable. It looked like 8 huge dimms hooked together, and all the chips were Samsung. I looked at the chips and some said "TCCC", some said "TCCD" and some said "TCCG."

I was wondering... how come I didn't see any UTT or BH5s in my dream? Must be a sign, lol. Okay, now that you all think I'm psycho I'll go away now.

[rseven]

It was a Freudian dream. Think about it, huge ram. LOL (Hey, I use to be a sex therapist, no joke!)

[TimoneX]

You guys are gonna laugh, but last night I had a dream, and it was weird. First of all I was at a computer store warehouse (HUGE PLACE). I think it was supposed to be newegg, but I'm not sure. Anyways, I put a kit of ram in my pocket, so that I wouldn't have to hold it while I shopped. I forgot to pay, and I left. I then looked at the ram and for some reason it was HUGE! It was like the size of 2 dimms width-wise, and like 4 dimms height-wise, and it was bendable. It looked like 8 huge dimms hooked together, and all the chips were Samsung. I looked at the chips and some said "TCCC", some said "TCCD" and some said "TCCG."

I was wondering... how come I didn't see any UTT or BH5s in my dream? Must be a sign, lol. Okay, now that you all think I'm psycho I'll go away now.

Don't worry bro, I'm sure noone thinks any less of you now. :D

[flapperhead]

most guys dream of women we dream of components...

[Reefa_Madness]

Speak for yourself.

[g0dM@n]

LOL... I don't need to dream of women, really. I see my gf almost every night. =)

I didn't tell her about my dream. She may think I was cheating on her. She already knows I love my computer. She gets jealous, lol.

[rseven]

She should be. She's concerned you'll get DVD! (Sorry, I couldn't stop myself. I tried, but I just couldn't. I'm.....an addict!)

[man_utd]

Reefa dreams about children who never complain ;)

I dream about having a computer that doesn't need a good kick every couple of days.

[PhobMX]

hopefully the next set they send me will be good, or at least work so I can sell it on ebay.... i'm so disappointed
here's to another week or more of waiting :beer:

alright, it took me 30min to read the WHOLE thread, and while i was about to :bang head because of my VXs, kiljadent turned it to a :clap: for myself... im glad i didnt roll the dice now (still, i payed $100 just for a couple of heatspreaders, LOL). That besides i dont order stuff myself, its a m8 over there who im related to, and it would be a pain in the ass to make him check newegg every 30min...

on the chick note... my gf (or should i say, ex-gf) dumped me last saturday... she was jealous of my gym and pc habits so im back to the dark side :burn:

[TimoneX]

You ordered already? I picked up a set of the new "value" vx for comparison to my fantastic TMSP modules and will be reporting on the results when they arrive. I've got new results for the TMSP modules too, I think they're finally completely broken in and purring at DDR530. I just keep tweaking and finding more and more unbuffered(& buffered bandwidth). I'm pushing 3500/s in memtest now w/o errors at DDR530 & 3.5v. I never got anything similar to that w/ my TCCD unbuffered.

[Reefa_Madness]

Reefa dreams about children who never complain ;)



Didn't realize you knew me so well. Actually, since I discovered duct tape has other uses besides AC work, my children haven't been as much of a problem.

Just kidding of course. I am blessed with a fine son and daughter, both of them can be very loving and sweet. But as every parent knows...children will be children...which brings me back to the duct tape.

[g0dM@n]

Do you tape their mouths shut, or do you tape their legs together? :)

[hawtrawkr]

Do you tape their mouths shut, or do you tape their legs together? :)


if hes like me they both get about 4 good wrap arounds

[kiljaden5]

I didn't tell her about my dream. She may think I was cheating on her. She already knows I love my computer. She gets jealous, lol.
girl getting jealous of a bunch of pieces of plastic with a few metal things in there somewhere... wow this sounds so familiar LOL

i feel ya

[eobard]

Lets bring this back around to memory discussion.

[TimoneX]

Yes let's do. Has anyone received any of the OCZ value VX as yet?

[g0dM@n]

How cheap CAN they go anyways? If my CPU can't clock much higher I just may be better off with them.

[TimoneX]

They're $148 shipped from atacom. I just hope OCZ didn't weed out all the good chips for PC3200 & PC4000 VX.

[g0dM@n]

Oh, $148 for 2x128? That's a ripoff!!

[kiljaden5]

I think its $148 for 2x512

[TimoneX]

2x128? LOL

Yes it's a 1Gb dual channel kit, so yeah it's 2x512Mb. It's similar to buying a twinmos TMII 1Gb kit in price, but should have the advantage of guaranteeing UTT chips...or I guess according to sen the "good" Utt chips that respond well to voltage.

[g0dM@n]

So let me have some links of potential UTT ram. This way I can make shortcuts and check 10,000x a day. I'm just not sure which ones have the greatest potential of hitting UTT :)

[TimoneX]

The way I understand it this ram has a 100% chance of being winbond UTT as does PC3200 & PC4000 VX.

http://www.atacom.com/program/atacom.cgi?SEARCH=SEARCH_ALL&ordered_number=&KEYWORDS=MEDD_OCZT_AG_C2+&Disp_item2.x=4&Disp_item2.y=7

Twinmos SP seems to have a pretty high rate of UTT. I've gotten 4x512Mb of Twinmos Speed Premium and 3 of 4 have been winbond UTT 44D chips. Twinmos TMII 1Gb kits seem to have a lower chance of having UTT, but I've never ordered any. Those that do get UTT receive 50D chips.

[g0dM@n]

Okay, so what's the diff between 44D and 50D. What's good... what's not... =/ Sry to bother you.

[TimoneX]

.6ns. They're both good. There's a thread on XS showing scaling with voltage, but not everyone with twinmos reported whether they were using SP or TMII sticks. I'd speculate that there's not too much difference in end results, but since the premium on speed premium is only about $20 and you seem to have a better chance of getting UTT then that'd be the way to go at least until this new OCZ value VX is more widely available and the verdict is in. I'd guess OCZ will be stealing alot of twinmos sales in the near future though. :)

[g0dM@n]

Is that the only link you have, the atacom one? I mean... did you buy that one also? I really don't know where to look. :(

[TimoneX]

TMSP(difficult to catch in stock):
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-405&depa=0
http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/productdetails.asp?submit=search&item=20-218-405

TMII:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-218-062&depa=0
http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/productdetails.asp?submit=search&item=20-218-062

To my knowledge noone save atacom has the OCZ value VX as yet, though I'm sure others will follow suit.

[g0dM@n]

Thank you so much, bro. I really appreciate it. :)

[JackCarver]

My UTT showed a little sign of burnin helping. My error point stayed 1-2 errors @250Mhz every few passes, but my PrimeStable point shifted from 240Mhz up to 245Mhz after a few nights of burnin with memtest #5 (ver 1.51) running at 3.5Vdimm 250Mhz.

[HousERaT]

My UTT showed a little sign of burnin helping. My error point stayed 1-2 errors @250Mhz every few passes, but my PrimeStable point shifted from 240Mhz up to 245Mhz after a few nights of burnin with memtest #5 (ver 1.51) running at 3.5Vdimm 250Mhz.

That's good to know..... it seems all the ram I've ever used seems to get better with time..... I hope all my TwinMOS ram gets better after some burn in time......

[Mdogs444]

Does anyone know if this is double sided x8, x16 etc? I ordered a pair for my athlon 64 system (s754) and am hoping to be able to run at 1:1. I guess double sided DIMMS can only run at 166MHz.

I know its in my sig lol, thats just what im HOPING to run if this works!

[g0dM@n]

Where did you buy your TwinMOS?

[Mdogs444]

New egg last night...got the 512x2

[HousERaT]

Does anyone know if this is double sided x8, x16 etc? I ordered a pair for my athlon 64 system (s754) and am hoping to be able to run at 1:1. I guess double sided DIMMS can only run at 166MHz.

I know its in my sig lol, thats just what im HOPING to run if this works!

are you speaking of the TwinMOS ram or the OCZ VX?

[Mdogs444]

TwinMOS, but to my understanding, they are both the same.....If you get lucky.

[HousERaT]

I have both of the TwinMOS sticks and they are both doublesided 8x.... it's pretty hard to find anything else in the 512mb variety.

[Mdogs444]

Hmm, well being that i dont have an adjustable PSU, this should turn out to be a tricky project trying to get enough volts to my Winbonds. I order the DDR Booster, but now im seeing that it doesnt play nice w/ two sticks in the DFI board....

[g0dM@n]

I just ordered the twinMOS 2x512... even though I already have TCCD. God, I'm getting addicted to this spending money ordeal. I don't have much money to spend, but I'm trigger happy.

[woodsman]

TwinMos 512 is in at Newegg

[g0dM@n]

Yeah, I saw. What's the use with just one? That's why I bought the dual kit. It seems to be around the same price to get two anyways.

[SteveOCZ]

Does anyone know if this is double sided x8, x16 etc? I ordered a pair for my athlon 64 system (s754) and am hoping to be able to run at 1:1. I guess double sided DIMMS can only run at 166MHz.

I know its in my sig lol, thats just what im HOPING to run if this works!

They are double sided, but you will be able to overclock it fine so long as you dont use it in slots 2+3 together. You want 1+2 or 1+3

[g0dM@n]

SteveOCZ, who's that damn chick in your avatar?!!?! lol

[mkfosgate]

SteveOCZ, who's that damn chick in your avatar?!!?! lol

HAHAHAHA, ive been wanting to know the exact same thing. She is fine!

[kiljaden5]

wasn't this discussed earlier in the thread?

back on topic though, has anyone found the OCZ value ram with UTT at a good retailer yet?

[TimoneX]

I haven't but atacom seems to be behaving themselves. They shipped my package 2 biz days after I ordered it and even sent me a tracking number. It's set for Fri delivery so I'll let you guys know how it does.

[mkfosgate]

wasn't this discussed earlier in the thread?

back on topic though, has anyone found the OCZ value ram with UTT at a good retailer yet?

Nope.

[g0dM@n]

I got the TwinMOS 2x512 from newegg. Let's hope it's good.

[Mdogs444]

So did i GOD, should be delivered friday. Keep everyone posted....

[Chick3nhead]

Thought yall might want to see what the ocz value utt looks like up close. It looks like ocz has filled in the winbond holes because it performs like just like it.

Got my OCZ value utt ram in today, I dont have the vdimm mod done yet, so im running right under 2.7v @ 220mhz htt, and 2-3-2-10 timings. And look closely, yep those are brain power pcb's. They wouldnt run 2-2-2-10 stock, but i really didnt expect them to, it usually takes utt some voltage to get them to that. I'm already impressed by these sticks and havnt had them but for 30min. I def. recommend these. Here are some very detailed pics for yall.

overclock (http://img57.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img57&image=utt2je.jpg)
ram pic1 (http://img57.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img57&image=dsc000155ds.jpg)
ram pic2 (http://img67.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img67&image=dsc000174mf.jpg)
pcb board pic (http://img67.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img67&image=dsc000182lq.jpg)

Nick

Edit: Now at 225htt 2-3-2-10, im going to do some memtest for a while....hopefully i can get the vdimm volt mod done tomorrow so I can really see what they can do.

AMD64 3200+(0451 best overclock 2.58ghz)
Epox 9nda3+
OCZ value UTT 2x512mb
bfg 6800nu unlocked

[Reefa_Madness]

Thanks for the pics!

That is certainly interesting about the dimple holes filled. The rest of the physical Winbond markings are still there, though. The small hole in the lower left corner of the chip and the two metal bands on both the left and right outer edges of the chip are clearly Winbond marks that are visible on all bh-5/6 or ch-5/6 chips.

Good luck with your OC.

[Diablo23RD]

Look at the pic in close shot, the ics dont look like UTT chip, the dimple in the corner a little bigger than normal UTT ic.

[Chick3nhead]

Yeah, im guessing either its a new thing or ocz modifies them, because they have been confirmed by OCZ employees to contain utt chips.

[Reefa_Madness]

http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~yok/TENJIKAN-DDR.htm

The link above is to that site which has pictures of the various ICs and it doesn't really look like any of the others likely to run 2-2-2-x.

It is hard to tell. I pulled out the set of OCZ PC2700 with the M.tec branded UTT and compared them to the picture, trying to gauge the size of the small hole relative to the solder legs on the IC and its close, but you do have me second guessing my initial thoughts because the metal bands on the outer edges are not the same size in the Value VX as compared to those on the M.tec labeled chips. It is very possible that the M.tec chips on these PC2700 are actually relabeled ch-5/6 and not UTT (although they are identical to the chips on the TwinMOS Speed Premiums).

Ryan from OCZ clearly stated in that thread over at XS that the Value VX uses Winbond chips, just like the regular VX so they may just be slightly rebadged. The quote below is from Ryan.

"OK guys I noticed that we were making one of our Value PC-3200 products using the same WB die we use in VX , they are only tested for the value spec , but they are super low cost and still come with the OCZ warranty , so basicaly I asked the PM ( product manager) to make a part number that specificed UTT Winbond that had not been speed binned , I would say that that in most cases these should perfoma as well as VX 3200 ( though I cant be certain as they are untested )"

[Chick3nhead]

We need a picture of the expensive new ocz vx with the heatspreaders off. Must be new because they may have changed the look of only the newer chips.