Monthly roundup of water cooling's best components[Retired Sticky]

[Voodoo Rufus]

The purpose of this thread is to help those people who have read the tutorial stickies and know the basics of water cooling, and just need help in picking out the components. This thread will be updated monthly based on availability of old, current, and new parts.

WORK IN PROGRESS

Components are ordered in terms of overall performance.

Pumps (12V DC):

Laing D5 (AKA Swiftech MCP655), cost ~$75

Pros: Good free flow performance, good reliability, adjustable speed, now a low noise pump with the D5 revision. May be best for single block systems.
Cons: A bit bulky for some possibly, also has noticable motor noise, weak if run at lower speeds.

Laing DDC/DDC+ (AKA Swiftech MCP350/355), ~cost $70. The Laing DDC+ is the 18W version vs the 10W for the non Plus. With inlet/top modifications the 18W bests the MCP655 for flow performance at slightly lower noise levels.

Pros: Very good pressure capability, very low noise (Eheim 1048 level), good for multiblock systems.
Cons: Low free flow rate (can be helped from this mod LINK (http://www.systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-01.html) or with these tops which can use the center for the inlet: Petra's Top (http://www.petrastechshop.com/peddcudeddcp.html)

Aquaxtreme 50Z (AKA Swiftech MCP600 Rev. 2), cost ~$80

Pros: Good free flow performance, reasonably low noise, 2 year warrantee.
Cons: Less pressure than DDC, potential reliability problem, less overall performance of a modded DDC, only runs down to 10V or so. A bit less overall performance than the D5. No reason to get this over the MCP655 now for noise and performance unless you're strapped for cash.


I am making an educated guess that for most systems, the 655 will outperform in all flow scenarios because the 655's PQ curve bests the unmodded 350s from 0LPM to maximum, though it consumes three times the power. From most data I have read, this would mean that for high power CPUs, the 655 would be the pump of choice. For low power CPUs (e.g. Dothan, undervolted Venice, Mobile Bartons non-OCed), the 350 should be used as it's power draw is lower.

Waterblocks:

Dtek Fuzion, $65 Dtek Customs (http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=182&HS=1)

Pros: Excellent performance. Nozzle mod helps even more.
Cons: A bit on the pricey side.

Swiftech Apogee GT/GTX, cost $45 GT (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/APOGEEGT.asp), GTX (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/APOGEEGTX.asp)

Pros: Identical performance to a Storm on IHS-equipped CPUs, excellent value for performance.
Cons: Made in China, cost for GTX.

Swiftech Storm, $80 Storm (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/Storm.asp)

Pros: Extremely good performance, universal mounting.
Cons: Cost (now available through mass production by Swiftech).

AquaXtreme MP-05 SP/LE, cost $75 Cooltechnica (http://www.cooltechnica.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AQX-MP05-SP-LE&Category_Code=WB)

Pros: Excellent performance, on par with a Storm
Cons: Very pricey.

Dtek Whitewater, cost $20-30 depending on version

Pros: Excellent performance/dollar, universal mounting.
Cons: 3 barb arrangement can make tubing routing more difficult.

Danger Den RBX (3 barb), TDX (2 barb), cost ~$55

Pros: Good performance, tweakability (different nozzles).
Cons: Less performance than other blocks, tweakability (if you don’t like dismantling the system to change nozzles).



Graphics Waterblocks:

I'm ridding the ranking for this, as the blocks have become more specialized. People now need to choose their blocks based on the GPU they are using. If you want a full cover block, your choices are limited. EK, Swiftech and Danger Den all make full cover blocks for high end visual processors. It is questionable if cooling memory makes any difference as opposed to cooling the BGA chips with passive heatsinks. Swiftech and Enzotech both supply nicely made forged copper BGA heatsinks. If you want to simply cool the GPU itself, you may want to cool the BGAs using this method. Furthermore, Swiftech, Dtek Customs and Danger Den all make nice GPU blocks for chip-only cooling.


Radiators:

NOTE: The radiators will be ranked in terms of absolute performance first with high power fans (>90cfm rated), with secondary ordering for performance in low noise conditions. It should also be noted that in the automotive world the saying is "There is no replacement for displacement", which for you n00bs means the bigger the better. The same holds true for rads, surface area is king.

High power fans (e.g. San Ace 120mm, Delta FFB/TFB, Panaflo H1A/U1A 120x38mm):

In high airflow applications, note that the temperature differences between radiators of similar fan and surface area arrangements will be quite small, such as 1C or less.


Blackice Extreme 2/3 or Thermochill 120.2/3

Pros: Very good performance with axial fans, easy to mount in most tower cases.
Cons: Price.

Blackice GT Series

Pros: Very good performance with axial fans, easy to mount in most tower cases. Nice price.
Cons: High FPI will trap a lot of dust. HERE (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94199&highlight=GT%2A). Take note, regardless of the GT's performance, it will be a dust trap due to it's high FPI and will be very hard to clean without removing the rad and hosing the fins with water. I have to do this with my HE120.3. The PA series and much easier to blow out with air due to their low FPI.

Double heater core

Pros: Cheap alternative to prebuilt computer radiators.
Cons: More awkward to mount, need shrouds to perform well, painting for aesthetics.

Blackice Pro 2/3

Pros: Good performance, cheaper than Extreme or Thermochills.
Cons: Price.

Blackice Extreme 120x1, Thermochill 120.1

Pros: Good performance, less space required.
Cons: Less performance than larger counterparts.

Single heater core

Pros: Cheaper alternative to BIX1, Thermochill 120.1
Cons: More awkward to mount, need shrouds to perform well, painting for aesthetics.

Blackice Pro

Pros: Cheaper than thicker counterparts.
Cons: Worst performance relative to all others.


Low power fans (e.g. undervolted Panaflo L1A 120mm, Delta EFB, 120x25mm fans):

In these applications, the thickness of the radiator will determine best performance, where thinner is better because of the lower pressure capabilities of these fans. Coupled with the higher air resistance of thicker radiators, they perform worse with slower fans. It should be realized that for quiet operation, your priorities should be frontal area of the radiator followed by thickness, which should be lower for less restriction with a low pressure fan. For high power fans, thickness and total surface area is desired. Please keep in mind that performance numbers are hard to relate to current articles available and lack of testbeds for radiator testing, so this is going off of my knowledge of what works and what doesn't work so well. In other words, don't take it as The Word.

It should be mentioned that the PA series rads by Thermochill are the best performing rads with low speed quiet fans. You can see Marci's comparison HERE (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77260). The jury is still out on the new BI GT series, HWlabs went in the polar opposite direction of Thermochill in terms of quiet rad cooling. HWlabs went with higher FPI (fins per inch) with their new 'micro fin' design which are very fine densely packed fins. These rads are extremely thin where the PA series are very thick with a very low FPI (9 IIRC). IMO the GT will not outperform the PA series, but this is just conjecture at this point.

Note: Still need to figure out where the GTX series fits in.

Ranking for low noise applications:

Thermochill PA120.3
Blackice GT Series
Blackice Pro 3
Blackice Extreme 3
Thermochill PA160
Blackice Pro 2
Thermochill 120.2
Blackice Extreme 2
Double heater core
Blackice Pro 1
Thermochill 120.1
Blackice Extreme 1
Single heater core




Resources:

http://www.procooling.com/html/pro_testing.php - interactive waterblock testing results
http://www.overclockers.com waterblock testing
http://www.systemcooling.com for Laing DDC mod

BillA and Greenman100 for radiator clarification.

[greenman100]

Excellent guide. Well done.

[thegreek]

I suggest adding some color to make it stand out.

[Voodoo Rufus]

I've never been big on aesthetics with regards to posts or reports I do. I'd be glad to take suggestions on how to make it look better.

[BillA]

terminology
it is the BI Pro, not Prime

[Voodoo Rufus]

Ah yes, thanks.

Prime = 4 pass.
Pro = 2 pass.

[Bugsmasher]

Very nice writeup.

[David]

If you want to make the formatting a little clearer, try increasing the size of the section headings using size tags and perhaps bold the name of each component. Also using [+list=1] and then for each item and [/list+] to close (minus the +s) will make a formatted numebered list like this:


Item 1
Item 2
Item 3

[OutS|der]

also add in best GPU block and best Chipset Blocks
Maybe even add in perfered Addititves as well
otherwise great job

[Voodoo Rufus]

I might work on those in the future. I need to gather more info on them first.

Thanks.

[MikeTimbers]

Can you cite a source for your ranking of the radiators?

[9mmCensor]

Can you cite a source for your ranking of the radiators?
BillA and Greenman100.

Maybe some of BillA's old OC.com articles and his Thermal Managment testing or talking with him.

[Achilles17]

yeah GPU block info would be good too. The big Three are the Silverprop Fusion HL, Swiftech MCW50, and the DangerDen Maze4. Heres my take on the three, from best to worst (although none are bad):

1) Fusion HL (Cost ~$50)

Pros:
1) All Copper
2) Preforms Very Well, best of the three
3) Can fit on any card with 6800 adapter kit

Cons:
1) Shipping can be expensive from Australia (If you order from Silverprop)
2) Expensive
3) Adapter kit costs extra

2) MCW50 (Cost ~$40)

Pros:
1) Cheapest of the Three
2) Preforms Well, about the same as the Maze4

Cons:
1) Uses 3/8" ID tubing, can be restricting for a 1/2" setup
2) 6800 Adapter costs extra
3) Contains Aluminum

3) Maze4 (Cost ~$45)

Pros:
1) Fits on any card, adapter kits are cheap ($2-$5)
2) 1/2" or 3/8" barbs available
3) Preforms well, about the same as the MCW50

Cons:
1) Contains Aluminum
2) More Expensive than the MCW50

Theres also a polarflo block, but I dont know much about it, other than the fact that its not quite as good as these three. Anything else that I know of isnt up to par. If you want to just copy and paste this up there, go for it, or if I am dead wrong about somethind, someone please point it out and I will edit this ASAP. Hope this helps!

[Voodoo Rufus]

Joe's reviews on the main page of the MCW50 and the Maze4 GPU place them very close together, might as well be a matter of preference.

Do you know of any good reviews of the Silverprop block? What I've read makes it look good but hard to find a test bench review of it.

[Achilles17]

I know I read a couple before I bought it, let me search around and try to find some for you. I can tell you from experience that it is great (gave me a 36*C drop on my 6800 ultra) but I'll look for a review.

[Achilles17]

Wow, no reviews of the Fusion HL anywhere. In one place I read that Jeremy (over at Silverprop) is reluctant to lend out blocks just to reviewers, maybe he had a bad experience or something. But not to despair! I do come bearing some positive news! It seems that pHaestus over at Pro Cooling is making a big GPU block roundup, and comparing all the blocks against each other, specifically the Fusion HL, Maze4, and MCW50, among others. He has most of the blocks, and the Fusion HL is in transit from Silverprop, along with one of their CPU blocks (apparently Jeremy agreed to send them). So in a few weeks time we will probably see this review, which will show us once and for all which block is king. The thread at Pro Cooling can be found here:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10670

[Voodoo Rufus]

Excellent.

Once pH posts the review I'll append my list. I would bet that your ordering is an accurate guess to what the results will be. ;)

[Voodoo Rufus]

Don't see a need to update anything for April yet, but the new Dtek Csystems Mag pump will be something to keep an eye out for once reviews are available.

[mgoode]

I would add the fusions take about a month to actually recieve from silverprop as a con. Still waiting for mine four weeks and counting.

[Achilles17]

I would add the fusions take about a month to actually recieve from silverprop as a con. Still waiting for mine four weeks and counting.

Really? Mine took 2 weeks tops, more like one and a half. Call them, or email Jeremy, hes real helpful. Maybe theyre just out of stock too...

[mgoode]

I did that Jeremy said my waterblock finally shipped friday , but my 6800 clips wont ship until today! I guess that will give me time to leak proof it. all in all not a good pruchasing experience for me. Check this thread in vendor section I am not the only one.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=375778

[whoever]

what a bout waterblocks? Im looking for something that will work well with 1/2tubing eihiem 1048 and a 6800GT, those dang ram sinks make me nervous. Plus the cores are closer to the pci-E pins

[thexassassin]

add some cases that are easy to set up wc in

[Voodoo Rufus]

Water cooling cases can be found here: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=260240

I don't have a list for GPU blocks because not enough test data is available still.

Personally, I would stick with a single block system if running an Eheim 1048.

[Achilles17]

Here's a link to a waterblock review, although it doesnt include the Fusion HL or MCW50, but it does have the Maze4. Found on DD's frontpage, its in french, but translated with google translator, so thats why it might be kinda sloppy.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcinpact.com%2Farticl es%2Fa%2F124%2F0.htm%3Fpge%3D1&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

[Voodoo Rufus]

Not bad. Pretty favorable towards the Maze4GPU.

[BeerHunter]

woot! nice job. :thup:

Anyone know why Cathars blocks are so spensive? Price/Performance off the scale.

[Achilles17]

not really. I mean, they dont give twice as much preformance as a mcw6002 (6002 is $45, g4 was $80), but you cant warrant that kind of price increase only if it doubles in preformance. Thats like saying a 3500+ gives a terrible price/preformance ratio, as it is twice as much as the 3000+ and isnt twice as good. If you have the cash, the price/preformance ratio is all relative. And for those of us who are willing to spend the extra $40-50 (myself included), it is well worth it.

[inkfx]

I think the TDX waterblock should come before the WW. If you put the brass top and the #5 nozzle on the block it can outperform the WW. I also heard somewhere that Cathar wrote something about the WW and some flaw it had.

[wannaoc]

Blackice Extreme 2/3 or Thermochill 120.2/3

Pros: Very good performance with axial fans, easy to mount in most tower cases.
Cons: Price.
This puzzles me. Is there really not that big of a difference in the version 2 versus the 3 of these rads to where they can be classified together? Just wondering, great thread btw.

[Achilles17]

This puzzles me. Is there really not that big of a difference in the version 2 versus the 3 of these rads to where they can be classified together? Just wondering, great thread btw.

There is a significant preformance difference, but also a significant space difference. Not many people have the room for the BIX3 or 102.3, but can fit the BIX2 or 102.2, so they opt for that. Just get whichever you have space for, as they both offer excellent preformance, but the BIX3 and 102.3 are just so rediculously huge, its not even an option for some of us. So yes, they are better, but if you have to mount it in a really inconvienent way or something, it might be worth it to get the smaller version instead, which will warrant almost (but not quite) as good preformance.

[wannaoc]

Then maybe we should make a note in the main post about that. A member new to w/c using this thread may not understand that. :)

[Voodoo Rufus]

Basicly if you have the room (and money), always go for the bigger one. I thought it was rather obvious.

[T1Cybernetic]

Exellent thread, makes me want to spend more money
on some new cooling every time i come here, :D Nice!



"EDIT"
Just remembered that this thread was here, im on the market
for something new again so this will come in handy yet again :beer:

[Voodoo Rufus]

Things I may add to the list in the future are the MCP655 (promising replacement for MCP600 on the list?) and the Thermochill PA160 once test results are available.

[jcw122]

very nice, i love this sticky! very easy way to keep up w/ water cooling even if u dont do or havent in a while...neat!

[jcw122]

hey dont forget to add the new Laing D4 to the pump list

[Voodoo Rufus]

Ah, I see sidewinder stocks it now. Are there any PQ curves comparing it to the Aquaxtreme yet for different speeds?

[Achilles17]

no literal pq curves that I've seen, but Cathar had a topic a little while back where he outlined the specs of the pump, how much heat it dumped, how much head, etc etc. It should give you an accuracte depiction of how good it is. Heres the topic btw:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=384735

[s random]

what are good chipset blocks?

[TheMainFrame]

Good roundup :)

[Voodoo Rufus]

My philosophy on this is that I'll update it once a month, and I won't add something that doesn't have conclusive test data proving one is better than another. This is why you don't see GPU or chipset blocks on here yet. Asetek, Danger Den, Swiftech and Silverprop all make good blocks for those purposes.

[mongoled]

Great thread!!

takes all the work out of investigating for new parts

thanxs dudes

[Sneaky]

you might want to edit the main post for the MCP-655/D5 pump

[Voodoo Rufus]

Did just that. PMed Cathar for some feedback too on the D5 and the PA160.

[Sneaky]

might wanna update for teh G4 since its now manufactured & mass-marketed by Swiftech as the "Swiftech Storm" fround here: http://www.swiftnets.com/products/Storm.asp

[Voodoo Rufus]

I shall be sure to update this when I get back to school tomorrow. Thanks for the reminder!

:drool: over the Swiftech ownage....

[hyperasus]

Wow that Swiftech Storm looks nice. Any reviews on it yet?

[Strages]

Your pump ranking needs some editing. Based on testing done by Cathar using a cascade and Thermochill HE120.2, the MCP600 (AQX-50Z) outperforms both Laing pumps, at least in a restrictive circuit. You can view the thread here:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10825&page=1&pp=25

[Voodoo Rufus]

I believe the chart shows the D4 with a slight lead, very small. Also, the D5 is supposed to have slightly better performance than the D4 from what Cathar has posted here.

I wish there was an overlayed graph of the modified DDC PQ curve, but it still has the advantage of still being quieter than the D5. I'll figure out some way to show it in the rankings.

[Strages]

No, the charts don't. I've been pouring over them the past few days doing approximations of my watercooling system.

The AQX-50z (MCP600) beats out the DDC (MCP350) and D5 (MCP650/5) because it dumps much less heat into the loop. The DDC comes out in the bottom ranking once it's added, and at 13.2v it's in the middle of the pack. The D5 (MCP650/5) is beaten by a few degrees, and even more so once you consider the MCP600 at 13.8v. At 13.8v the MCP600 is the best pump of all, only being beaten by 2 x MCP600 @ 13.8v. The only pump better is the Iwaki RD-20Z at ~18v and it's nearly impossible to find and runs ~$200 when you do.

[Voodoo Rufus]

You must also consider that most people will simply run their pumps off the 12V line, not 13.8V with a separate PSU. Even at +5% maximum for PSUs, that's still only 12.4V.

The difference between the D5 and the 50Z is 12W (21 vs. 9W).

Next, the D5 has 13.45 feet of head, and the 50Z has 10.5. D5 has 317GPH max, and the 50Z has 185. So overall the D5 should best it despite the higher power draw.
An interesting post here: http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=3668765&postcount=15

[Strages]

Yes, I'm fully aware that most people don't run their pumps at 13.8v, but if you followed the link and read the explanations/charts then you would have seen that the MCP600 (AQX-50Z) still outperforms both pumps (at 12v) due to it dumping far less heat into the loop than the other pumps. I suggest you read thread I linked to to understand what I'm talking about.

Here it is again: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10825&page=1&pp=25

[Voodoo Rufus]

I will do some more reading, but I am unsure on this.

[Strages]

Well, to be honest here, I've been doing some reading myself and hadn't realized the difference between the MCP650 and MCP655. I'll try to make some estimates myself on performance and then see if I get get Cathar to confirm them. I have a feeling that because of it's superior head pressure, that its just barely going to beat the MCP600, but it all depends on how much power it dumps into the water - cathar has estimated that it's probably close to the same as the MCP650, so I'm going to use it as a base value (the percentage).

EDIT: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=3817528#post3817528

[Voodoo Rufus]

A couple new radiators that I will try to figure out rankings for here are Swiftech's new MCR-120QP and 220QP, which have fin densities lower than the typical Blackice or Thermochill radiators.

[johan851]

If you could add a couple words about tubing, that would be awesome, and help out newcomers.

1/2" ID Clearflex 60
7/16" ID Masterkleer (the best, IMO)
1/2" ID Tygon

All available at McMaster. That way we get less tubing questions and less people buying cheapo vinyl. :)

[Voodoo Rufus]

I don't have enough experience with tygon and masterkleer in equal sizes to make judgements on them. I'll need more feedback and/or proof of which one is more clear, more flexible, less prone to harden, etc.

I do have some 1/2" ID Clearflex and 7/16" Tygon, and they're both good stuff.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Updated 9-1-05.

[Graystar]

Add kits.

Swifttech Extreme Duty
Asetek WaterChill
1A-Cooling Blacklord
etc.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Not much point when you can easily find them on JoeC's test results page for kits tested on his die sim.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/waterkit.asp

[masterwoot]

Thanks again for the quality guide!

Question: Is it Laing Thermotech (http://www.lainginc.com/) that makes the D5 pump which Swiftech calls the MCP655 (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp655.asp) and Danger Den The DD12V-D5 (http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=175&cat=23&page=1)?

If so, then you might make note of it in the 1st post. It just appears to me that your guide looks a bit biased toward swiftech when you list the pumps like that.
If they are the same pumps, then I think you're guide should always refer to them by the manufactures name "Laing D5" or whatever so as not to confuse people or lead them to one distributor over another.

I'm not an expert on this, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, thanks for you work on a great guide!

[citronym]

Laing D5 (AKA Swiftech MCP655)

Laing DDC (AKA Swiftech MCP350)

Seems straightforward to me. Even DD still calls it a D5

[masterwoot]

Yes, but Danger Den doesn't call it the MCP655. Just a note that for someone who's not familiar w/ components (like myself who is just recently reading much on the topic) that it appears the guide is biased toward Swiftech with the references in the thread often as "MCP655" rather than "Laing D5" or "D5." When I read the thread thoroughy w/ my shopping list in hand, I saw "Swiftech" all over the top 3 pumps--a bummer for a guy who got a gift certificate for Danger Den's site. Now that I've read up, I see they're the same pump.

I know the intent of the guide is to get people in the know on "water cooling's best components." If Swiftech or Danger Den or whoever has the best parts, then I for one would like to know. If they're selling the same part, then I think clarity is in order.

But then again, perhaps Danger Den was late on the scene and the "MCP655" name is universely recognized as that version of the Laing D5 pump for H20 cooling and so goes the spoils to Swiftech.

Anyway, that's just my take as a H20 noob.

[ls7corvete]

Yes, but Danger Den doesn't call it the MCP655. Just a note that for someone who's not familiar w/ components (like myself who is just recently reading much on the topic) that it appears the guide is biased toward Swiftech with the references in the thread often as "MCP655" rather than "Laing D5" or "D5." When I read the thread thoroughy w/ my shopping list in hand, I saw "Swiftech" all over the top 3 pumps--a bummer for a guy who got a gift certificate for Danger Den's site. Now that I've read up, I see they're the same pump.

I know the intent of the guide is to get people in the know on "water cooling's best components." If Swiftech or Danger Den or whoever has the best parts, then I for one would like to know. If they're selling the same part, then I think clarity is in order.

But then again, perhaps Danger Den was late on the scene and the "MCP655" name is universely recognized as that version of the Laing D5 pump for H20 cooling and so goes the spoils to Swiftech.

Anyway, that's just my take as a H20 noob.


Eh thats just how its done. I dont think that anyone is commenting on the quality of either company by the name.

Swiftech was first to start offering the laing pumps.

[masterwoot]

kinda like "kleenex" or "Q-tips" then....

[Voodoo Rufus]

Swiftech typically uses the MC* names, but I used their official names for the pumps in the posts. People tend to be familiar with Swiftech and they are the only ones who change the names of the pumps or radiators that they sell that I know of, besides rebadged painted heatercores.

[drunkn.bear]

Nice post. Helpful for DOY watercooling units

[Snoopy69]

The best radiator is a "MoRa 2" by "Watercool" :p

http://www.hardware-rogge.com/neushop/shop.php?action=detail&artnr=W005

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/271/10106lianli174a8ci.jpg

My Laing-Mod...

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/8695/70102yf.jpg

[clover]

Is this thread due for its monthly update? Anything new come out lately?

[JasonDTM]

Thermochill PA120.x series. :)

[Voodoo Rufus]

PA series, hmm, I'll have to think about where to put those, but there's still a severe lack of good test data for radiators. Makes it hard to rank things.

[JasonDTM]

^^^ I know what you mean

The PA120.X series is a homerun because they were designed for fans that output equal to and less than 80cfm. :)

[darkside1016]

Sudjesting a new "Monthly roundup of water cooling's best components" for the countless number of people upgrading around these times, including myself.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Well, the pumps and blocks won't change much as there's not a ton coming out all the time. If there's new parts with legitimate reviews, let me know and I'll read them. Then, I'll consider placing them on the list.

[cessna172]

Anyone use the Koolance stuff. I have used it for 3+years and they make some really high quality h20 Coolers. I just bought a ATI 850 cooler. I post some pics if ya want

[fuzzba11]

I just got my first piece of Koolance kit, the RAM block that just came out.

How about an updated thread with GPU, HDD, and RAM blocks?

[Voodoo Rufus]

Find me relevant and credible test data and I'll add them.

[jcw122]

Swiftech's 600x series have dropped down to <$40...and their also discontinued.

[Gregz]

/anxiously awaiting data on the swiftech apogee block

[CobaltInfinity]

On DangerDen's website they post some specs about the Thermaltake PA160 that Cathar did so I imagine they will be pretty reliable.

Tricod @ 5.0v => 0.075 c/w (est: 10dBA, 23cfm)*
Tricod @ 12.0v => 0.044 c/w (est: 22dBA, 45cfm)*
Panaflo L1A @ 12.0v => 0.031 c/w (est: 30dBA, 69cfm) *
Panaflo M1A @ 12.0v => 0.026 c/w **
Panaflo H1A @ 12.0v => 0.022 c/w (est: 41dBA, 104cfm)*
Panaflo H1A @ 16.0v => 0.020 c/w (est: 48dBA, 130cfm)*

Papst 4312L @ 12.0v => 0.038 C/W
Papst 4312L @ 7.0v => 0.051 C/W
Papst 4312L @ 5.0v => 0.062 C/W

Noiseblocker XS1 @ 12.0v => 0.050 C/W
Noiseblocker XS1 @ 7.0v => 0.065 C/W
Noiseblocker XS1 @ 5.0v => 0.078 C/W

XinRuiLian RDL1225S @ 12.0v => 0.047 C/W
XinRuiLian RDL1225S @ 7.0v => 0.060 C/W
XinRuiLian RDL1225S @ 5.0v => 0.074 C/W

Testing done by Cathar at 110w Heatsource, with a flowrate => ~6.6lpm - see HERE for original source

* = as a result of preliminary testing.
** = projected result. based upon preliminary testing

"Given a rheobus I would say that the Panaflo was the preferable fan to have, only because it is more powerful and therefore gives more choice when/if the user needs extra cooling. If the Panaflo is slowed down to the equivalent air-flow of the Papst 4312L, then the noise levels are near identical. They both make a similar motor bearing ticking noise, with the Panaflo being slighly lower pitched and therefore arguably more preferable.

[Achilles17]

Oh man, rereading this thread was just full of nostalgia, brought me back down memory lane. I've been out of the loop recently (get it? out of the loop? ;)), but it seems things haven't changed too much in the WC community, which is good. This Christmas I'm going to reassemble my setup, which was taken apart this summer when I put together a new system, but I never put my WC setup back in there. Anyway, I'm glad to see that this thread is still doing well.

BTW, was there ever a review for the Fusion HL that came out? I remember spending a long time looking for a review back when this thread was on page one, only to find that one was "coming". Because GPU blocks are still not listed, I guess Fusion reviews are still rather rare. Ah well, I'll bet better stuff has come out since then anyway - maybe I'll track down some GPU block reviews and put a list together for you again when I get back into the game.

Oh, one more thing. Rufus, were you a mod when you started this thread, back when I was posting regularly? I'm just curious, as I don't remember you being a mod back then, but I very well could be wrong. If you were recently modified (man I'm on FIRE with the puns today!), then congratulations. If not, then I guess I just made a fool of myself :p

[Voodoo Rufus]

Nah, I was a senior still when I made this thread.

I personally like the fusion blocks based off how they're made, but it irks me to no end that there's not enough good reviews out there to base a solid GPU listing off of.

Still, seems hard to go wrong with Swiftech, DD, or Silverprop for any of their GPU blocks.

[dealsaddict]

wow boy am i glad i found a forum with a dedicated section like this one

[gulp35]

What about the Swifty apogee and their dual radiator?

[Voodoo Rufus]

I admit I'm a bit behind on this, but with all the recent discussions about the Apogee and testing methods/results, I'm hesitant to place it on the list. I'll take a closer look at their radiator article and see if I can revise it soon.

[johan851]

I admit I'm a bit behind on this, but with all the recent discussions about the Apogee and testing methods/results, I'm hesitant to place it on the list.
I would definitely agree with that decision.

[Gregz]

There's a big debate over here http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=433452 about the importance of the coolant flow rate. The concensus seems to be that "flow rate > all".

If the coolant flow rate is so important, how can the Swiftec Storm be considered the best block when the jet impingement process constricts net flow so much?

Wouldn't the apogee make the most sense since it has minimal flow resistance?

I'm sure this stuff is complicated, and is probably a function of the radiator size also, so it would be nice to know how some of the standard 'kits' like the swiftec apogee kit fair against an equally configured kit with a storm block. I'm sure these tests have been done by now, does anyone know the results?

[citronym]

Unfortunately I think that the flow-rate argument and the jet-impingement concept share very little in common. I can't explain as I don't fully understand it myself but I know one thing has nothing (or very little) to do with the other.

[johan851]

If the coolant flow rate is so important, how can the Swiftec Storm be considered the best block when the jet impingement process constricts net flow so much?
The jet impingement design is all about water velocity. It restricts flowrate so much because it's a constriction in the loop, forcing water to move much more quickly over a set of cups. The turbulence and speed of the water is what makes the Storm perform so well. That's why flowrate is so important - it doesn't have a bunch of channels or surface area to remove heat, but only works well when the water velocity is high enough. That's also why pumps are usually recommended based on their pressure characteristics rather than unimpeded flow characteristics.

Flow rate and jet impingement have everything to do with each other.

Wouldn't the apogee make the most sense since it has minimal flow resistance?
Depends on the blocks in your loop, but not always. The Storm is an obvious choice if it's the only block in your loop, of course. As for the test results, the Storm should win in a kit with a strong pump, and the Apogee would win in a low-flow loop.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Actually, the storm still wins in a low flow setup.

http://www.systemcooling.com/images/reviews/LiquidCooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image25big.gif

[johan851]

^ This is why you're in charge. I should rephrase...the Apogee won't show as much improvement as flow rates increase as the Storm will.

[Gregz]

Thanks for clarifying, but if the Storm block performs better than the Apogee...why did Swiftec replace the Storm with the Apogee?

Isn't technology supposed to improve over time?

/don't mean to threadjack

[Voodoo Rufus]

Swiftech's testing method is different than direct die testing, and proved that their new block worked better on the "Intel TTV" testbed than the older blocks. It's accuracy relative to reality is questionable.

Also, the Apogee is cheaper to produce than Storm and other jet impingement blocks.

[johan851]

Also, the Apogee is cheaper to produce than Storm and other jet impingement blocks.
Cheaper to produce and much more cheaply produced. :-/

[citronym]

Cheaper to produce and much more cheaply produced. :-/
Isn't that the truth...
Of course any mass produced block like the storm had flaws here and there, but it seems like I've read more problems with the apogee than I've read praises.

[Andor]

Anyone got any kind of rankings on reservoirs?

[Sneaky]

well all the reservoirs do basically the same thing...

[Andor]

well all the reservoirs do basically the same thing...

Yes but arn't some better than others in terms of quality and features (such as ease of getting air out of your system)?

Seems like I saw a review on one that fit in a 5.25" bay that tended to have a leaking problem.

[Sneaky]

look for ones with thicker acrylic, such as the DD reservoirs (only ones that i'd personally ever buy), and stay away from ones with aluminum components like the thermaltake reservoirs

[HeatM1ser2k4]

look for ones with thicker acrylic, such as the DD reservoirs (only ones that i'd personally ever buy), and stay away from ones with aluminum components like the thermaltake reservoirs
I just bought a DD bay reservoir, and it came assembled improperly....the mounting holes on one side were on the inside of the reservoir! Fortunately, I dont think that will affect me much with the Thermaltake quick mount plastic thingies.

[Sneaky]

call them up and tell them about it - they'll replace it no problem

[JEmlay]

Pumps (12V DC):

[list=1]Laing D5 (AKA Swiftech MCP655), cost ~$75

Pros: Good free flow performance, good reliability, adjustable speed, now a low noise pump with the D5 revision. May be best for single block systems.
Cons: A bit bulky for some possibly, also has noticable motor noise, weak if run at lower speeds.

Laing DDC (AKA Swiftech MCP350), ~cost $70

Pros: Very good pressure capability, very low noise (Eheim 1048 level), good for multiblock systems.
Cons: Low free flow rate (can be helped from this mod LINK (http://www.systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-01.html))



I'm confused. Why is the lower flow rate pump recommened for multiblock applications? Don't you need to make up for the extra resistence? Also, I've seen people daisy chain two 655's. Why would you ever need to do that?

I would prefer to build a 3/8 system. I just assume keep the entire system that way. So instead of a 655 could I chain two 350's together? (1) CPU block and (2) GPU blocks. In general I just don't undestand the multi-pump model.

[Voodoo Rufus]

If you had a REALLY restrictive loop, the DDC would have a slight edge, and below 40GPH it outperforms the D5. But for nearly any system I can think of with today's components, the D5 is the best bet except for really low noise applications.

[JEmlay]

Ok, so with a BIXIII and any CPU block with any two gpu blocks then 1 D5 is enough. Why do people use 2 of them?

Does anyone have any Db measurements on the D5? I noticed Swiftech conveniently left that data out in their specs.

Thanks Voodoo!

[Voodoo Rufus]

They used to have it on their site, but no more. I don't know why.

[johan851]

Ok, so with a BIXIII and any CPU block with any two gpu blocks then 1 D5 is enough. Why do people use 2 of them?
With watercooling, pumps aren't so much about the flow rate as about the amount of flow they can push with a given restriction. This is the 'head height' rating on a pump, and it specifies the amount of flow a pump can provide with a given vertical resistance. The GPH rating on a pump is usually its output with 0 resistance. So, while putting two pumps in series wouldn't increase flow with 0 restriction, it provides a lot more pressure to push against restriction, creating increased flow with high restriction setups. With restrictive blocks that like high flow, you can push a little more flow through them with two pumps.

You do need to keep in mind that pumps dump a given amount of heat into a loop, so the actual effects of having pumps in series is debatable, and heavily dependent on the particulars of a given loop.

[JEmlay]

The systems weren't anything special. All did have 2 GPUs though. Seeing as how I'm being told 1 D5 is enough for 3 blocks then I'll put that in my specs and see what you guys think of the overall pic once I'm done.

Thanks guys!

[johan851]

It's a good idea to start with one. The price/performance ratio from two pumps in series is generally going to be pretty low with any system.

[JEmlay]

Ok. So it's one of those senarios where someone is paying top dollar just to break that record by 1 degree.

[otogrim]

yup

[johan851]

Something like that, yeah.

[Arkangyl]

Just wonderng why the MP-05 series doesn't have a place here

Systemcooling Review (http://www.systemcooling.com/cooltechnica_aquaxtreme-01.html)

Systemcooling (only review I've seen) basically had this block highly competitive with the Storm, and with the Storm no longer in major production I'd think these guys would fit in there nicely.

Just wondering if it'd missed something though (thinking about buying to replace 6002-64), if there's some crap about them I'd be curious on your take

[Voodoo Rufus]

Ah, I missed it. Very good alternative to the Storm. I'll add it to the list.

[Strages]

Voodoo, you should update the Radiator section to reflect Thermochill's new PA series. With High-output fans, they outperform the HE series by ~10% and with low-output fans they outperform the HE series by ~40%. These are co-developed and tested by Cathar, so I trust those performance figures.

http://www.thermochill.com/pa1203.php
This is the link to the PA 120.3, but it also has a summary of the whole project at the bottom in the fine print. You can find more information about the PA series on the site as well. The only downside is that the PA's are slightly larger than the HE's.

[1stOVERCLOCKER]

great guide thanks this helps alot

[Voodoo Rufus]

You're welcome 1stOCer.

Ranking radiators is a very complicated issue, especially with a lack of test data. I may just do away with the radiator ranking and simply explain how to choose one based on goals and needs.

[citronym]

I think thats a great idea.

[ReD.SkY]

hmm... shouldnt there be an iwaki pump on the list? maybe in spot 1?

RD20 i think is the best (DC)

[JEmlay]

When I was doing my research I found too many people complaining that those pumps put too much heat back into the water. I believe the RD20 transfers 30W of heat.

[ReD.SkY]

that is only a few watts more than the D5, but it puts out twice the power

heat dump is not an issue witha large rad

[DSpot]

I'm sure that's more than a few watts. Around the region of 10W or more. But for the performance the Iwaki produces, why not..

[JEmlay]

"heat dump is not an issue witha large rad"

You're assuming everyone always runs a large rad. I'd have to say most people do not. Plus, heat is ALWAYS an issue. What's the noise comparison?

"But for the performance the Iwaki produces, why not.."
That's great if you need that performance. If you don't then WHY ADD more heat then is necessary? Not many configurations would perform any better with added pump power. Not enough to justify the added heat.

[johan851]

You're assuming everyone always runs a large rad.
I don't think he is. That statement is pretty accurate...I mean, if you have a larger rad, you really don't need to worry about another 10w of heat, especially considering you're doubling your head height over something like the D5. Not that the D5 isn't great - it's really an awesome option for almost any watercooling loop. Low heat, very quiet, great pressure, etc. The Iwaki will just outperform it by a bit, that's all. If you can afford it, you'll get lower temps on blocks that enjoy pressure as well as better performance from your rad. Everything benefits from more flow.

[JEmlay]

No one claimed it wasn't acurate. A line has to be drawn somewhere. If you have a "large enough rad" you could use a pool pump for all anyone cares.

The point was, the common conclusion with this pump was the heat gain created a wash with the performance gain. This conclusion was based on average systems. This pump requires very specific high flow parts and that's why you wont see it to often in a "general" discussion of what's best to get. However, if the OP can pull it off then great!

Plus you bring up a few points that make it hard to offer this pump in a general line up:

"if you have a larger rad"
"If you can afford it" - cost versus "real" gain.
"blocks that enjoy pressure"

Seems to me there are too many ifs, and or butts when trying to recommend this pump. All those needs to be discussed when this pump is on the table.

[johan851]

"if you have a larger rad"
"If you can afford it" - cost versus "real" gain.
"blocks that enjoy pressure"
Well, of course. I wouldn't ever really recommend the pump unless it was someone who's going all out like Nikhsub or Cathar or Diggr or someone. You do need to give someone the whole picture, but that doesn't change the fact that's it's probably the best watercooling pump around performance-wise.

There is some debate about heat consumption vs. heat dump into the water...you'll notice the casing on an Iwaki heats up a lot more than a D5, which might indicate that the Iwaki is dumping a lower percentage of heat into the water...but that's beside the point.

[theseeker]

I noticed there was no mention of Aqua Computer Gear. Someone is sleeping on the job.

[citronym]

There is a good reason for for that, I don't think anyone is sleeping bro.

[johan851]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Voodoo knows what's going on...and there's a good reason their gear isn't listed as "the best."

[Voodoo Rufus]

Can you even get that stuff in the US?

[theseeker]

Can you even get that stuff in the US?

Yes you can.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/theseekeroffun/6b37aec6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/theseekeroffun/3fc10ce0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/theseekeroffun/32749d6e.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/theseekeroffun/F4.jpg

And you can get these too.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/theseekeroffun/RAD1.jpg

You can Aqua Computer Here (http://www.sharkacomputers.com/index.html)

[JEmlay]

Can you even get that stuff in the US?

Sure, if you're rich! With the pics just posted of thier gear, you see the grill on top? I just bought two 360mm grills. Total cost $98 USD. I ordered them 6 weeks ago and I still don't have them! USPS rejected them and they wont ship again until they recieve the first shipment back. I hate ordering overseas!

EDIT:
OT - See the screws that are holding the fans in place (and the grill)? Anyone know where I can get those nice looking screws?

[theseeker]

Sure, if you're rich! With the pics just posted of thier gear, you see the grill on top? I just bought two 360mm grills. Total cost $98 USD. I ordered them 6 weeks ago and I still don't have them! USPS rejected them and they wont ship again until they recieve the first shipment back. I hate ordering overseas!

EDIT:
OT - See the screws that are holding the fans in place (and the grill)? Anyone know where I can get those nice looking screws?

You can buy the grills in the U.S.

[JEmlay]

Care to give any examples? I looked and looked and no one on this forum had any ideas 6 weeks ago. Anyway I already bought them. They are $30 a pop so between tax and shipping that's where the extra $38 dollars went.

EDIT:
Still need to know about the screws. Thanks.

[Slayer2003]

Still need to know about the screws. Thanks.


Home Depot, Lowes, Ace hardware........they look like normal machiene screws with an allen wrench head.....

[JEmlay]

No they aren't. When was the last time you used a normal machine screw on a case fan? Unless you are suggesting they used nuts to mount the fans?

[Voodoo Rufus]

After a little googling, their waterblocks are not very impressive. I won't be putting them on the list.

[theseeker]

Care to give any examples? I looked and looked and no one on this forum had any ideas 6 weeks ago. Anyway I already bought them. They are $30 a pop so between tax and shipping that's where the extra $38 dollars went.

EDIT:
Still need to know about the screws. Thanks.

Sharka.com

[theseeker]

After a little googling, their waterblocks are not very impressive. I won't be putting them on the list.

You will not find american reviews on them, however there is one coming out within the next 30 days. With the exception of Catahar Storm, they can hold their own. I know this to be true as I have had both.

[Voodoo Rufus]

I look forward to reading the reviews.

[DSpot]

The MP05 SP is in the list, how about switching it with the LE version, the one with 432 pins?

Then there is the Storm revision 2.0.

For the chipsets, there is the MCW30

Radiators, there is now the MCR320 QP

[JEmlay]

Sharka.com

What the HECK is that supposed to be? I don't need any proffesional speakers ;p

[Voodoo Rufus]

I'll look into the LE.

The Storm Rev. 2 doesn't perform any better than the first.

I'll add the MCW30

I'm working on revamping the radiator ranking.

[JEmlay]

The Storm Rev. 2 doesn't perform any better than the first.

Do you have actual test results for that? The rumor was the unit performed better in high flow situations???

[Voodoo Rufus]

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/storm-r2.asp

The changes were primarily made for easier assembly with less chance for error. A .2 PSI change in dP is nothing to write home about and would be difficult to measure on test benches, to say nothing of the real world user.

[VballCoach]

No they aren't. When was the last time you used a normal machine screw on a case fan? Unless you are suggesting they used nuts to mount the fans?


you can tap the fans then use those allen head screws. pretty easy to do if you have the tools that is.

I may even be able to get you torx head screws if you want to be unique...

[jer6663]

You're welcome 1stOCer.

Ranking radiators is a very complicated issue, especially with a lack of test data. I may just do away with the radiator ranking and simply explain how to choose one based on goals and needs.

Don't do that, with the lack of info it makes it hard for us noob WC'ers to decide where to start. Your info gives us a place to start. I have found it very usefull and have decided to change my rad, Wish I woulda found this first before getting mine. Is a single pass better that a dual pass with a D5 and low cfm fans?

[Voodoo Rufus]

Don't do that, with the lack of info it makes it hard for us noob WC'ers to decide where to start. Your info gives us a place to start. I have found it very usefull and have decided to change my rad, Wish I woulda found this first before getting mine. Is a single pass better that a dual pass with a D5 and low cfm fans?


The thing is, I do not want to spread wrong information, and your last question involves too many variables to tell you exactly what radiator to get.

ALL else being equal, a single pass has half the pressure drop for a given flow rate, but of course your flow rate will be higher because of it.

For low CFM fans, you want thin radiators with less fins per inch. Also, more frontal area gives proportionally more dissipation capabilities for a given flowrate.

[jer6663]

I can understand that you don't want to pass bad info. But it does state that this is "not word" . Which most should take as "this is the best I can judge with the availible info." As I said, it's just a starting point for us noobs. We noobs should (And I have been, hence why I'm changing rads) do more research on the matter. I know I've been going circles looking for info between the BIP 1 and PA160 to match up with 1/2 tube, D5 pump, Maze 4 and TDX with #5 nozzles. I've learned much from these forums and pulling good info like that would be information lost. Heck I didn't even know there was a difference between high/low cfm rads til I found that. Your doing a good job.

[DSpot]

ALL else being equal, a single pass has half the pressure drop for a given flow rate, but of course your flow rate will be higher because of it.

For low CFM fans, you want thin radiators with less fins per inch. Also, more frontal area gives proportionally more dissipation capabilities for a given flowrate.

May I suggest providing a quick summary on the information on facts such as these. It may be enough for the users to judge for themselves. Users base their choices on the facts given here like fin density, whether it's single pass or dual pass, thickness and other dimensions of the radiators, etc.

[-aDaM^]

good review!

[Paapaa]

It would be nice to see some actual comparison of Storm vs. Apogee especially on dual core processors. Apogee might be better suited for dual cores having larger die area than Storm.

[Bunny771]

Great write up. I am considering buying some water cooling opposed to air cooling.
So this was a great heads up.

[DSpot]

I have keen interest in seeing the comparison between the Storm Rev2 & the MP-05 SP LE.

[megaez]

Yes I would also like to know about these newer blocks for I am looking to water cool and would like to know what the best cpu block is. So far I have checked and it does seem like the swiftech storm is #1, but does the rev2 bring anything new to the table?

Of coarse if I were to go ahead and wc my current rig I would probably have to go with the DD RBX/TDX because of the socket connection. No holes for me:cry:

[JEmlay]

I'd like to hear some thoughts on the Blackice rads versus the Blackice Gen2 rads.

[Voodoo Rufus]

If anyone wants anything added to this thread, PM Nikhsub as he is in charge of it for a while.

[JEmlay]

Hum....

1. The following users were not found:
1. Nikhsub

[jopapa1267]

Hum....

1. The following users were not found:
1. Nikhsub
http://www.ocforums.com/member.php?u=9791

[Sneaky]

nikhsub1

[JEmlay]

Thanks, PM sent!

[nikhsub1]

OK I guess i'm on duty... I never visited this thread, gimme a day or so guys. I definately have some opinions on the Gen2 rads, but nothing concrete as I dont own one... just give me some time.

[JEmlay]

"Anything" is greatly appreciated!

Thanks nikhsub1

[nikhsub1]

OK, I've updated the first post with the DDC+, some tops that are available for the DDC which negate the 'mod'. Gonna post what I can find on the GT series.

[Ecca Ecca]

Do I need a chipset block?

[Sneaky]

you can add one if you want to spend the extra time to route everything better... but otherwise just throw a fan onto the chipset heatsink thats there, or get a decent HSF combo to put on it (eg: thermalright HR-05, etc.) if you're an absoluter freak for performance

[Ecca Ecca]

New month! Does that mean new update?!

[Rocky Mt. High]

I'm adding watercooling to my computer and am interested in how two new waterblocks may affect the next round-up:

(1) Aqua Computer's Cuplex XT placed among the top 3 performers in System Cooling's thermal tests (03-Apr-06): http://www.systemcooling.com/aqua_computer_xt-05.html

(2) Cooltechnica's "Limited Edition" redesign of its AquaXtreme MP-05 SP (NO3) now employs 432 micro-pins instead of the original 300. Will that be enough to push it over the top?

[Mr.Guvernment]

New month! Does that mean new update?!

I think it is updated on main page already with the best still.

[zbarnes]

Right now I'm kind of confused by the top 3 pumps. It looks like the 50z is about 1cm bigger than the D5 (not much), 3x less heat output, 3.2m head (vs. 3.1m for the D5), but less max flow (max flow ain't that big o deal compared to head). They are both around the same price too.

And I definitely don't know why the DDC is rated higher than the 50z.

I would like to know, because I am currently debating between the 50z and the D5.

[DSpot]

Nikhsub1,

Got any more info on the BI GTs? I am not very confident of it.

[Sneaky]

i just said screw it and ordered a BIX II myself... i was skeptical of the BI GT's as well

[DSpot]

I have something else in mind. Not BI.

[Rocky Mt. High]

A couple new radiators that I will try to figure out rankings for here are Swiftech's new MCR-120QP and 220QP, which have fin densities lower than the typical Blackice or Thermochill radiators.
Any thoughts yet on the Swiftech MCR "Quiet Power" radiators? Given their relatively low fin density and slim form factor, I wonder where they will place in your low noise application ranking.

For me, it's probably between the MCR120-QP or the Black Ice Pro. The Thermochill is too thick to fit in my case and the BI GT Stealth fin density seems to beg for a noisier fan.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Ask Nikshub1, he's updating the list for now.

I think the QPs should be excellent radiators though.

[y0bailey]

hey folks...some quick advice here.

I have a black ice pro rad (1x120) and i'm looking to just cool of my 805D. will that with a D5 pump and TDX be able to keep er cool without a tornado fan blowing through that rad?

[RichardKemp]

Hey, how does a NexXxos XP block compare to the top 5 listed here? Thanks..

[DSpot]

I was playing with a Nexxxous Bold yesterday. I must say it's a d*** good looking block. The workmanship is the finest I've ever seen. For performance wise, based on my setup, the temps are no different from my G4. I ran it on a Opteron 146 rig.

[natewildes]

hey folks...some quick advice here.

I have a black ice pro rad (1x120) and i'm looking to just cool of my 805D. will that with a D5 pump and TDX be able to keep er cool without a tornado fan blowing through that rad?

That should be plenty, but I'd go with at least a BIP II to get the temps way down there. The higher the airflow, the lower the temps....

[WhiteFro1306]

gg, i love this review.

[Rocky Mt. High]

On August 11, 2006, Marci posted updates to his comparative radiator tests. They can be found at the following link:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77260

[T07N]

Where is the best place to purchase water cooling equipment?

[Sneaky]

* www.petrastechshop.com
* www.dangerdenstore.com
* www.svcompucycle.com
* www.frozencpu.com
* www.voyeurmods.com
* www.performance-pcs.com
* www.jab-tech.com
* www.sidewindercomputers.com
* www.crazypc.com
* www.cooltechnica.com

[T07N]

Thank you!

[redham]

Can anyone give me suggestions on this soon to be config:

Currently running P4 Prescott 478 socket and upgrading to a C2 6800 in late Dec. or Jan 07.

As per the suggestions of this thread: (Thanks for all the hard work btw)

Shopping list so far for main components.

Swiftech storm
BlackIce Xtreme 3 Xflow rad.
Eheim 1046 (already own)

Questions:

1. Will the Black ICE xtreme 3 fit inside a Lian LI PC-75 ? (Under top Panel, Which I will probably cut and install a 3 fan grill to sandwich 3 x 120 fans in between the radiator to pull air out)

2. Will the stock 3/8 fittings be enough on the Eheim 1046? (I'm not shure if I can change them to 1/2)

3. Good suggestion for a front panel water res. and temp gauge?

Notes:
I'll stay with this basic system first and maybe add on a GPU bloc later. I'm not a big gamer so I don't OC big time but I do need the some extra power for photoshop.

Any help would be appreciated.

[TheCor4D]

If i remember correctly, the eheim 1046 is not going to have enough pressure to go with the storm block.

[Sneaky]

1. xflow radiators SUCK, HARD!!! get a normal dual pass black ice xtreme III, not the single pass xflow, PLEASE

2. get a new pump: my suggestion is the DD D5 or MCP-655 (same pump)

it has twice the flow of a 1046, and almost three times the pressure, you'll definitely want a better pump to use in a loop with a triple rad + storm block

[natewildes]

X-flow radiators don't suck at all, espescially if you're using a low-pressure pump.

[jcw122]

Swiftech MCW600x series don't forget, those are now discontinued. Where's the Appogee?

[drewnashty]

Where's the Appogee?

I'm thinking the same thing. I've only been able to find two reviews of the Apogee, of which between the Storm and Apogee they performed nearly the same for actual CPU testing but were way off from the die simulations. Of course I don't care about simulations just what happens IRL on my cpu.

http://www.ocia.net/reviews/apogee/page5.shtml
http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_apogee-13.html

Any other sources out there to run off. I'm looking into getting my first WC build and the $40 dollar difference between an Apogee and Storm are quite a lot for the results that I am seeing on these tests.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Alright alright if you insist..... :rolleyes:


My old favorite the MCW6002 has been removed since it is no longer available.

Blocks added:

Swiftech Apogee and MCW60.
Cleaned up the DDC/DDC+ pump description.

[dejman]

im looking at a new rig im building,
i want to give liquid cooling a round,
ive stuck to zalman 9500,
upgrading to the new conroe 6300, the 1.86,
wondering what would be a good liquid cooling for not so much money,
maybe like 150$ if thats even possile/worth it

[BlitzAceYuna]

No offence, but isnt the MCW60 a VGA waterblock?

According to Swiftech's webby, the MCW60 is a VGA waterblock while the MCW30 is a chipset one.

Could the MCW60 be used as a chipset cooler as well?

Also, are there any rankings for VGA waterblocks or can I just stick a Apogee/Storm on one?

[natewildes]

'Chipset' refers to both video cards and north/south bridge chips.

[BlitzAceYuna]

Ohh..

So does the MCW60 & 30 both come with NB & VGA mounts?

I intend to get a loop with :

MCP655
Black Ice Extreme III/II
Apogee / Storm
2 x MCW 60 / 30 ( Whichever is better or even possible )

Would that work?

[{FKR}Loki]

Excellent post http://img118.exs.cx/img118/7837/d0kcheers.gif

[Maviryk]

I think we need to update with DDC2 with Modded top. Prefereably Petra's or Alphacool, even DIY.

[QuietIce]

Has anyone except Petra's tested their top yet ...?

[Voodoo Rufus]

The modded top is already mentioned in the first post. As long as people simply don't look at the rank numbers and actually read the post, they will discover this.

[Farwalker]

After reading this thread and looking at the radiators below; I am facing a problem trying to decide what to buy based merely upon what is on the DangerDen internet website. I can't get a good look at the products and the text description is a bit sparse.

Has anyone personal experience with both the:

Black Ice X-Flow Xtreme III Radiator -


Single-pass Double-row Low Pressure Drop Radiator specifically developed for PC Watercooling ....
rated for 2445KCal per hour (9702 BTU per hour).
360 mm x 32 mm (4.72 inch x 1.25 inch) Double-row Copper core consisting of flat tubes for maximum heat conductivity.
412 x 133 x 45mm (16.7 x 5 x 1.69 inch) dimensions



Black Ice Xtreme III Radiator -


2-pass Double-row Low Pressure Drop Radiator specifically developed for PC Watercooling ....
rated for 2445KCal per hour (9702 BTU per hour).
Double Row 360 mm (9.44 inch) Copper-finned core consisting of flat tubes for maximum heat conductivity.
397 x 133 x 40 mm (15.63 x 5.25 x 1.77 inch) dimensions allows it to fit inside most mid-tower cases.


I note two differences the X-Flow Xtreme is a single pass & its dimensions seem to be greater; versus the Xtreme is a 2-pass. Both are double row and rated as 9702 BTU.

Oh, the X-Flow is a few dollars more.

Is one designed for high flow fans?

[Voodoo Rufus]

As far as I know they are identical except for the passes. The water velocity in general will be higher in the 2-pass therefore having better heat transfer. The 1-pass would be good if you had a really insane high flow setup.

[SolidxSnake]

The Black Ice series X-Flow radiators are not "true" single-pass radiators. They're the same core as the standard two-pass models, but they have different end tanks slapped on. Thermochill's PA series (is that the right model?) are true single-pass cores.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Still, they *are* single pass radiators.

[[O-CuK]Marci]

Thermochill's PA series (is that the right model?)

Only the PA160...

[wfarid]

good job, nice to see something like this!

[Poweredquest]

Well I a starting build up of a new mATX setup.
Beginning with the Ultra MircoFly case and a Ath. AM2 5000+ X2 with a biostar board. Yes going water cooled.

And considering that space is of a premium I am using the following simply because one can mount on the other. I am still trying to find a better choice for water block and rad however.

But what I have now for res and pump, Swiftect MCP350 3/8" and Thermaltake Aquabay. Figured it had a good size and allows the mounting of the pump to it instead of having to find a spot on the case.

I am looking at mounting the radiator outside of course, but only a single unless I feel like I want to make some monster mount feet for it.

[krag]

Is the Swifty storm still the #1 CPU waterblock?

The reason I ask is I need something to replace my Vapo-LS for my 6700-XE quad. So I need something with gutts!

*edit...how about this one....Aqua-Extreme MP-05-SP LE? (http://www.jab-tech.com/AquaXtreme-MP-05-SP-Limited-Edition-Universal-CPU-Water-Block-%BD-High-Flow-fittings-pr-3569.html)

[Voodoo Rufus]

I think the storm edged out the MP05. Check systemcooling's old articles. I think they reviewed it.

[SiGfever]

Is the Swifty storm still the #1 CPU waterblock?

The reason I ask is I need something to replace my Vapo-LS for my 6700-XE quad. So I need something with gutts!

*edit...how about this one....Aqua-Extreme MP-05-SP LE? (http://www.jab-tech.com/AquaXtreme-MP-05-SP-Limited-Edition-Universal-CPU-Water-Block-%BD-High-Flow-fittings-pr-3569.html)
My MP-05 SP LE out does my Storm rev 2 by 1-2c on my P4d 945, great block.

[jimmsch]

I want to cool just my CPU with lquid. I also want the pump, rad and res outside my case, so all I have in my case is two tubes going to the CPU block. I also think a submersible pump would be best for quietness.

I like the sound of the 2 pass Black Ice Extreme rad, and I am gathering from these threads that I will want the Apogee to cool my X6800 and possible upgrade to 45nm whenever they arrive on the market.

I just have no idea what is the best pump for this. If I have to have a pump that is not submersible then so be it...I will. I am hoping to keep my CPU somewhere near room temo. Right now it is at 42C and the room is about 20.

I think I can solder all the three fan wires together ans run just one cable into the PC case for the fans , and if the pump is supposed to get power from the PSU also I can run one cable in for it as well.

So I guess what I am asking is what brand/model equipment do I want to use?

1...CPU block
2...pump (submersible?)
3...rad
4...res

Thanks -Jim

[jcw122]

Hows the new D-tek Fuzion?

[Voodoo Rufus]

Lemme think (and dig) on that....

[maxfly]

how do swiftech rads compare to the rest of the big manufacturers Rufus?good bad ugly?

[Voodoo Rufus]

Good rads.

[natewildes]

An update on waterblocks would be good, mainly the addition of the Apogee GT and DTek Fuzion (I know you're 'digging' on this ;) ), according to the tests I've seen, the new order in terms of performance would be:
1-Fuzion/Storm (Fuzion does better on multi-dies, Storm better on single)
2-Apogee GT
3-AquaXtreme MP-05 SP/LE
4-Apogee
etc etc etc...

Appreciate all your hard work Rufus! :D

[krag]

Where does the Thermochill rads fall? I bought this dual 120mm rad (http://www.jab-tech.com/ThermoChill-PA120.2-pr-3263.html) from jabtech for a whopping $120. I have heard very good things about it. Thats why I bought it.

[natewildes]

Thermochill rads are the best out there...but certainly not the best bang-for-your buck, for $120 you'd be better off with 2 2x120 GTS/X rads :). But if space is an issue and money is not, you chose well.

[krag]

Exacrie mah mang, space is the issue. Way to big with 2. But it would be cool to see some pics of a dual-dual rad.

[Evan_Poland]

What do you guys know about the Edvard Konig (http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/izdelki_eng.php) (EK) water blocks coming out of europe.
I think that their 8800gtx block is one of the best, but im wondering about getting one of their CPU waterblocks as well.
Also, will a single 2x120mm rad be enough for GPU and CPU goodness.(e6300), GPU to be bought and added into loop later.

[golfking222]

I'm confused about pumps. Is the MCP-355 a DDC? And can you change the top on the MCP-355 into say, an alphacool?

[jcw122]

I'm interested to see how the D-Tek direct impingment GPU, yes GPU, blocks will be. Says on their site that they are coming out soon.

I'm confused about pumps. Is the MCP-355 a DDC? And can you change the top on the MCP-355 into say, an alphacool?

Yes sir! If I'm right...it's the DDC+ and the MCP-350 is the DDC.

[SolidxSnake]

I'm confused about pumps. Is the MCP-355 a DDC? And can you change the top on the MCP-355 into say, an alphacool?


DDC Rev. 1, DDC-1, DDC, MCP-350 are the 10w version (Black impeller)

DDC Rev. 2, DDC-2, DDC+, DDC-Ultra, MCP355 are the 18w version (Orange impeller)


Both can have the tops changed to aftermarket ones, like Petra's, Alphacool's, Radiicals, etc.

The new ones ship with blue impellers, both the 8w and 18w versions. They can be interchanged with a simple solder bridge.

[golfking222]

K thx, that clears a lot up. So to get a DDC+ w/ an alphacool top you would buy a MCP355 and an alphacool top then just install the top yourself?

[QuietIce]

Right! :thup:

Keep in mind it also voids the warranty ...

[Voodoo Rufus]

I have not had time to thoroughly investigate the Fuzion block, but it does appear to be a good one from end user testing. A lack of active testbeds really makes me leery about assigning a ranking to it.

[NoKtEm]

how come there isn't a GPU section in this thread =)

[OCnewbee]

how come there isn't a GPU section in this thread =)

Probably cause there are way too many video cards. Cause they make new one like every other month.

[RADCOM]

This thread is in need of an update I believe the D-tek fuzion and Apogee GT are new kids on the block no pun intended. Also aren't the Thermochill PA series the final word in radiator goodness? I have the EK 8800GTX waterblock and it has dropped the temp of the GPU to circa 38-40C and 49C at load.... give this man your money lol. Funnily enough the pump situation remains unchanged. just my tuppence worth!

[res0r9lm]

wrong info for chipset blocks. the mcw60 is a gpu block. The mcw30 is chipset block

[Voodoo Rufus]

By chipsets I meant GPU blocks. That was intentional.

I have done a small updated, and I am going to assume from now on that most people are running IHS'ed CPUs, and I will rank things accordingly.

Since there are no known active testbeds anymore, I am forced to rely on end user data. This is not ideal, but it is the only alternative to axing the whole thread.

I have eliminated Silverprop blocks as they are hardly available in the United States anymore.

[treatmentx]

This thread is in need of an update I believe the D-tek fuzion and Apogee GT are new kids on the block no pun intended. Also aren't the Thermochill PA series the final word in radiator goodness? I have the EK 8800GTX waterblock and it has dropped the temp of the GPU to circa 38-40C and 49C at load.... give this man your money lol. Funnily enough the pump situation remains unchanged. just my tuppence worth!

You're killing me... Now I wanna go run out and get a EK GPU block...

EK vs MCW60 for a 8800GTX (stock at 627/1000 XFX XXX edition)??? Any one experience with both? Any numbers for the MCW60 (since we have some #'s from RADCOM)?

[natewildes]

Time for an Apogee GT/X update to the thread :)

[ppe1700]

who makes the storm cpu block? every time i search for it on google i dont get much info.. if i had the manufacturer i think i would get more luck in finding a place that sells them..
i found the fuzion but im only single core

[aja]

who makes the storm cpu block? every time i search for it on google i dont get much info.. if i had the manufacturer i think i would get more luck in finding a place that sells them..
i found the fuzion but im only single core

Swiftech manufacture it on a contract basis with the designer, an Aussie I think...

[QuietIce]

Cathar designed and built at first - in later years it was built by Swiftech. However, the Storm is off the market AFAIK, replaced by the Apogee GT & GTX. The Storm is a great block for lidless chips but not as good with an IHS ...

[[O-CuK]Marci]

Storm G4 - mass produced by Swiftech. Discontinued. Some companies still have stock on the shelves (I've got 2 left at the mo!)

Storm G5 - limited edition - made by Cathar / LittleRiverWaterblocks. Limited quantities produced to order only. Now discontinued. Can only be purchased secondhand.

Storm G7 - limited edition as above, produced to order only. No more orders being accepted. Cathar has retired from waterblock production, other than completing outstanding orders of the G7 afaik.

[SuperMiguel]

is tha Thermaltake Aqua GT TMG2 any good?

[3Z3VH]

Where does the Thermochill rads fall? I bought this dual 120mm rad (http://www.jab-tech.com/ThermoChill-PA120.2-pr-3263.html) from jabtech for a whopping $120. I have heard very good things about it. Thats why I bought it.

Thermochill rads are quite good. If you use one, however, plan to use anti-corrosion additives to your water if you couple it with any copper blocks/accessories in your loop. All Thermochill rads, and even most of their line splitters, are all aluminum. Unless you have plated blocks, you will need an anti-corrosion additive to avoid the battery effect.

[[O-CuK]Marci]

Utter crap. Thermochill rads don't contain a single bit of Aluminium. You do NOT need to use ANY anti-corrosive additives with ThermoChill rads and copper blocks.

We also don't and never will make line splitters.

http://www.thermochill.com/pa1202.php

Construction: Brass Tanks & Tubes, Cu Fins

Exactly the same as all the other made-for-pc radiators out there (other than Koolance).

For info on ThermoChill PA Series performance vs everyone else, see http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77260

[3Z3VH]

My apologies, I had Koolance on the brain when he said Thermochill, no idea how I read that wrong.

[JorisS]

Has anybody here ever tested the Innovatek G-Flow (http://www.webshop-innovatek.de/00000094271139704/000000942713b3501/50142494350d39f0c/53097597f00dab101.html) blocks, from Germany?

I currently have one installed and it seems to be a pretty decent piece. Unfortunately my current WC system/loop sucks monkeyballz, but that is soon to change I hope. Idle temps are currently over 40 degrees Celsius since my radiator can't really cope. Haven't done anything about it since I'm waiting in an AC Aquaduct which I plan to play around with soon :)

I've also ordered a D-Tek Fuzion, so if anybody is interested I could ofcourse do a round-up between those two blocks myself if I find the time.

In that case I'd like to get some pointers on what to keep in mind for such a job, as I've never really done it. I'm then referring to measures to make the results 'count' and 'reliable'. Such as perhaps several mounts, to avoid/minimize effect of better or poorer mounts? But how long to test, break-in time for AS5 or MX2 is some weeks but if I simply do not 'use' break-in times for any given mount, it should still be possible to do a proper comparison?

ah well... i'm ranting.


*edit*
clarified idle temps by adding unit :)

[voigts]

snip

Obviously this person works for sharkacomputers as this is the second thread he has pointed to products on that one site.

The Dtek Fuzion and the Swiftech Apogee GTX are the two best blocks on the market period.

[QuietIce]

Obviously this person works for sharkacomputers as this is the second thread he has pointed to products on that one site.

The Dtek Fuzion and the Swiftech Apogee GTX are the two best blocks on the market period. But I must add - "for IHS processors". ;)


While I haven't tried either of the newer blocks yet I can't imagine either one working better than a Storm on a bare chip ...

[satandole666]

Have there been any recent reviews on new blocks/pumps/rads or anything? I haven't been 100% in the loop but I haven't seen any innovation in a while.

Also, is the first page in this updated at all? I'm wondering if there are any decent upgrades to my Black Ice Extreme 3 for a decent price. I was thinking about trying out the MC320 or whatever it is, but I don't know how it perfoms relatice to my rad.

Thanks.

[Voodoo Rufus]

In my opinion if you're running any 3 fan radiator with decent fans you won't see a huge drop in temps. Save your money and spend it on better hardware.

[dansearle]

I've not seen anyone comment on the MIPS computer Gmbh chipset and MOSFET blocks. I'm wondering if the flow rate through their blocks is high enough to allow me to water cool CPU, GPU, NB, SB and MOSFETS in a single serial loop using the Thermaltake P500 pump.

[HDCHOPPER]

eyema thinking about going water yall is this thread still valid enough for decision makeing ?

how bout some of the all in 1 kits ? eye know anything thats all in 1 uasually is trash but ... thats what eye came here for to find your take on it all ;) fold on !

[Hazaro]

eyema thinking about going water yall is this thread still valid enough for decision makeing ?

how bout some of the all in 1 kits ? eye know anything thats all in 1 uasually is trash but ... thats what eye came here for to find your take on it all ;) fold on !

All in 1 is usually bad unless it's a Petra's or Swiftech or something.

Bump for thread resurrection.

[jer6663]

We got some new WC products from Freser out there. Anybody know about the new Rads??. I was thinking about swapping my PA160 for a dual. The 160 is just too wide for where I want to put it.

[Anubis_386]

Would a D-Tek Fuzion V2 + Quad Core Chamber Insert + Quad Core Accelerator Nozzle = The best block for a Quad .. lol .. Also, anyone know of any chipset blocks that are compatible with reference 790i boards? .. Ooo and can you get like a pump+res in one type things? ..