Some Help needed

[Cylix]

Hello. Im new to these forums, as you can probably tell.

Anyways, I'm looking to buy a new system(Already built). My price range is at $600 dollars, not that much.

What i'm having trouble with is finding a vendor that sells a complete system for my price range that includes a motherboard with PCI Express slots. As I will probably want to upgrade to a new video card(in the future), and PCI and AGP are getting old.

I've seen fairly "ok" systems, like Intel P4 3.0 ghz, 512 DDR, 160GB HD, CD-RW, etc. However they don't include PCI-E, just PCI, or AGP. I've also seen AMD systems, however they also don't include PCI-E slots. The higher priced systems(in the $1,000s) include PCI-E i've seen.

Do you think I have any chance of finding one that has PCI-E? I've checked Fry's Outpost, Circuit City, BestBuy, Dell. I've also checked CompUSA, and they had one with a 1X PCI Express. Video cards use X16 PCI-E, so what the hell is 1X PCI Express for?(Sorry I'm stupid..lol)

Anyways, Cool fourm you got here. :D

Thanks
Cylix

[dark_15]

:welcome: to the forums!!!

I know you are looking for a prebuilt system, but I highly doubt you will find anything with PCI-Express from a brand name under $1000.

However, if you are interested in building your own computer, you may have a little luck.

People here on the forums will be more than happy to help you build and set up a rig that would suit your needs perfectly. We have some great resources to help you choose what would be best for your custom system.

For instance, click HERE (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=347609) for a great resource to build a nice AMD system with PCI-Express.

EDIT: PCI-E x1 will probably be used for newer sound cards, gigabit network cards, and possibly other devices. Currently, there are not many choices to use these slots, but with a little time you may be wanting to buy more cards than your motherboard can handle ;).


If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or send me a Private Message (just click on my username and select "Send a Private Message to dark_15")

[LutaWicasa]

I've also checked CompUSA, and they had one with a 1X PCI Express. Video cards use X16 PCI-E, so what the hell is 1X PCI Express for

I would imagine the 1xPCI Express is referring to the number of PCI-E slots ;)

[dark_15]

I would imagine the 1xPCI Express is referring to the number of PCI-E slots ;)

Oops... maybe you're right... who knows. We'll find out when he comes back online!

[Cylix]

Hmm.. I don't think it means how many PCI-E slots there is because it says 1 PCI-E X1. It doesn't say there is a PCI-E X16(Video Card). Here is the system specs for that one I was looking at:

Processor Brand: Intel
Processor Class: Pentium 4 Processor
Processor Number: 519
Processor Speed: 3.06 GHz
Bus Speed: 533 MHz
Cache Size: 1 MB
System Chipset: Intel® 845GV Chipset
Memory Speed: PC2700 (333MHz)
Memory Technology: DDR-SDRAM
Installed Memory: 512 MB
Maximum Memory: 4 GB
Hard Drive Capacity: 160 GB
Drive Controllers: SATA/150
Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM
Card Slots: CompactFlash Card
IBM MicroDrive
Memory Stick
Memory Stick Pro
SmartMedia Card
Secure Digital(SD)/MMC
Sound Support: Intel High Definition (HD) Audio
Video Chipset: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator (GMA)
Video Integration: Motherboard
Shared Video RAM (Max): 224 MB
Monitor Included: No
Port Connectors:

* 7 USB 2.0 (1 in Media Manager, 2 in front, 4 in back)
* Ethernet - RJ45 Twisted-Pair (XBaseT)
* Parallel - 25 pin D-shell (IEEE 1284A)
* Serial - 9 pin D-shell (EIA 574/232)
* 3 IEEE 1394 Firewire (2 in back, 1 in back)
* Serial - RJ11 Modular (Phone/Telco)
* Video - 15 pin High-Density D-shell (VGA)
* 2 PS/2 (Keyboard and Mouse)
* 5 Audio (2 in front, 3 in back)

PCI Slots: 2
PCI Express x1 Slots: 1
Slots Notes:

* 1 PCI and 1 PCI Express x1 open

Additional Drives: DL DVD+/-RW
CD-ROM
External 3.5 Bays: 1
External 5.25 Bays: 2
External Bays Notes:

* None open

Internal 3.5 Bays: 3
Internal Bays Notes:

* 2 open

Network Support: Ethernet (10/100 Mbps)
Modem Speed: 56 Kbps
Input Devices: Keyboard
2 Button Wheel Mouse
Installed Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Included Software:

* Microsoft® Works 8.0
* Microsoft® Money 2004
* Microsoft® Picture It! Premium 9
* Encarta Online
* Adobe® Acrobat® Reader
* Microsoft® Windows® Media Player 9
* BigFix®
* RealNetworks Real Player
* CyberLink® Power DVD
* Nero 6 Suite
* Microsoft® Internet Explorer
* Norton AntiVirus 2005 (90-Day complimentary version)

In the Box:

* Premium Multimedia Keyboard
* 2-Button Wheel Mouse
* Amplified Stereo Speakers

Chassis Style: Tower (Mini)
Height: 14.3 in
Width: 7.3 in
Depth: 16.0 in
Weight: 23.0 lbs
Limited Warranty: 1 Year (12 Months)

The only downside to this system is that its an Intel. I've heard AMD's are way better for gaming. As you can see it doesn't say PCI-E x16. But PCI x1.

The Intels have 3.0ghz, while the AMD's have 2.2ghz, but some of my flight sim buddys tell me the AMD is just as fast or faster then the intels. They said the AMDs run slower, but do more per clock cycle then the intels.

What system do you think would be better for me, Intel or AMD, if I was use it for gaming, and digital imaging, and internet of course :p

Thanks a ton!

Cylix

[LutaWicasa]

I stand most humbly corrected. Check this (http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1087&page=5), it should shed a little light on the subject.
At any rate...you don't want it ;)

[dark_15]

Gaming - AMD
Pictures - Tie
Video Editing - Probably Intel (HT is sweet)
Internet - Either one is perfect.

Your buddy is correct. The AMD does more work per clock cycle compared to Intel.

What games are you looking to play? Doom3 or Half-Life 2?

And would you be interested in building your own machine, or do you really want something like a Dell?

[Cylix]

I usually play Flight Simulations. Like IL-2 Forgotten Battles/Pacific Fighters, Strike Fighters/Wings over Vietnam, Dangerous Waters(doesn't take much to run), Slient Hunter III and maybe Lock On:Modern Air Combat(it requires a pretty built system). I might also get some games like Half Life 2, Americas Army. But I'm mainly going to be using it for Flight Simulations, but I will prolly want to try some other games, like FPS.

So I guess I'm going to go with AMD. No I don't want a Dell, I don't like dell..lol.

I would "try" and build my own system, however this new system I will be getting is my graduation gift from High School, and my parents wont allow me to build one up. I plan on trying to build one, when I get out of high school and get a job/college. But as I said before I'm not that smart when it comes to computers. I've one built one, and that was my freshmen year in high school in a computer apps class, and from what I can remmber I had major troubles with the damn BIOS and CMOS crap, but finally got it to work.

I've been looking around the last few days for a system, mainly a Intel because I "thought" it was better for gaming. But today I've been looking at AMDs. My buddys say the Winchester 64 is the best, however I couldn't really find one for my price. But I've seen a few Althon 64s.

Heres one I seen:

Processor
Processor brand---AMD
Processor type---Athlon™ 64
Processor speed---2.4GHz
Level 2 cache---256KB

Operating System
Windows XP Home Edition SP2

Memory
RAM---512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
RAM expandable to: 2GB

Video Card
Integrated SIS Mirage2 graphics

Storage/Drives
Hard drive size---160GB 7200RPM Ultra DMA

Expansion
Total expansion slots---3 PCI, 1 AGP
Available expansion slots---2 PCI, 1 AGP

Ports
USB---7 USB 2.0 (3 front/4 rear)
FireWire ---2 (1 front/1 rear)
Parallel port---1
Serial port---1

Internet/networking
Network Interface Card (NIC)--Yes

Audio
Audio card---Integrated audio
Speaker type---N/A

Input devices
Keyboard---HP Internet
Pointing device---HP scroll mouse

General Features
Warranty Parts---12 Months
Warranty Labor---12 Months

Dimensions
Height---7.5 inches
Width---15.2 inches
Depth---16.5 inches

Costs-------$629.00----

Of Course, I'd prolly add 512 mb more ram, and a replace that crappy intergraded card with a better one. I've also seen one that was slighty better then this, that comes stock with an Nvidia Geforce FX 128mb card, I'll try to find it and post it.

Anyways,
Thanks for all your help

Cylix

[dark_15]

That setup looks like it has promise. Now you are aware that it is an AGP motherboard, so a PCI-E card is out of the question. However, you are still in luck if you want a decent video card. Some high-end cards (such as the radeon X800XL and X850XT) are being ported from PCI-E to AGP.

In all honesty, stay away from the FX Line. Go with something from Radeons or a 6600GT if your price level is $200 or less. Now if you can afford a $300-$400 card, look for a X800XL or 6800GT.

And another stick of 512 RAM would be perfect for that machine. It's cheaper for you to do it yourself anyways. I recommend some Corsair ValueRam (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-026&depa=0) for your machine.

Hope that helps!

[EvilCloudStrife]

looks like he is being taken care of.. alright, go at it dark_15!

[Cylix]

That setup looks like it has promise. Now you are aware that it is an AGP motherboard, so a PCI-E card is out of the question. However, you are still in luck if you want a decent video card. Some high-end cards (such as the radeon X800XL and X850XT) are being ported from PCI-E to AGP.

In all honesty, stay away from the FX Line. Go with something from Radeons or a 6600GT if your price level is $200 or less. Now if you can afford a $300-$400 card, look for a X800XL or 6800GT.

And another stick of 512 RAM would be perfect for that machine. It's cheaper for you to do it yourself anyways. I recommend some Corsair ValueRam (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-026&depa=0) for your machine.

Hope that helps!


Yeah I know its not PCI-E, but I think I will just get an PCI/AGP board this time, and when I get enough money to build my own system, get an PCI-E Mobo.

My buddys tell me that HP's computers can't be fitted with too much stuff. They say the power supplys that come with them are too crappy to run a better video card, and that no other power supply will fit into the case.

I think they just want me to get a custom built PC, however those are around 900 and out of my range.

I'm defintley going to get a new video card and a stick more of 512 ram for that system. Could I fit a batter Power Supply into it? Like a 400W?

Cylix

[Cylix]

I was bored, so I made of a list of parts I would put into a system, if I had the money and time, I would build a system with


POWMAX Black/Silver Mid Tower ATX Case with 400W Power Supply
(Side Window & handle)

ASUS "A8V-E Deluxe" VIA K8T890 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 939 CPU
Supported CPU: Socket 939 AMD Athlon 64/Athlon 64 FX
Chipset: K8T890 + VT8237R
FSB: HyperTransport 1000/800/600MHz
RAM: 4x DIMM for DDR400/333/266 Max 4GB
Slots: 1x PCI-E X16, 2x PCI-E X1, 3x PCI
Ports: 2x PS/2, 1x LPT, 8x USB2.0(Rear 4), 1x IEEE1394, 1x RJ45, 2x S/PDIF out, Audio Ports
IDE: 2x ATA 133 up to 4 Devices
SATA: 2x Serial ATA with RAID 0/1 JBOD
Onboard Audio: Realtek ALC850 8-CH
Onboard LAN: Marvell 88E8053 GbE Gigabit Lan PCI Controller
Onboard IEEE1394: TI TSB43AB22A 1394 Controller supports 2 x 1394 ports
Form Factor: ATX

AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 512K, L2 Cache, Socket 939 Windows Compatible 64-bit
Model: AMD Athlon 64
Core: Clawhammer
Operating Frequency: 2.2GHz
FSB: Integrated into Chip
Cache: L1/64+64KB; L2/512K
Voltage: 1.5V
Process: 0.13Micron
Socket: Socket 939
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2, 3DNOW!, 3DNOW!+
Packaging: Retail Box (Heatsink and Fan included)

Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200
Manufacturer: Corsair
Speed: DDR400(PC3200)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 2-3-3-6 1T
Support Voltage: 2.6V
Bandwidth: 3.2GB/s
Organization: 64M x 64 -Bit
Warranty: Lifetime

Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
Capacity: 160GB
Average Seek Time: 8.9 ms
Buffer: 8MB
Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM
Interface: Serial ATA
Manufacturer Warranty: 3 years
Packaging: OEM Drive Only

ASUS CD-S520/A5 52X Black CD-ROM Drive
Read Speed: 52X CD-ROM
Interface: E-IDE/ATAPI
Buffer: 128KB
Access Time: 80 ms typical
Data Transfer Rate: 3,450KBps (23X) - 7,800KBps (52X)

ASUS 52x32x52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive, Model CRW-5232AS, OEM Black Bulk
Write Speed: 52X CD-R,32X CD-RW
Read Speed: 52X CD-ROM
Interface: ATAPI / E-IDE
Buffer: 2MB
OS Support: Windows XP/2000/Me/98SE
Features: FlextraLink and FlextraSpeed technologies
Packaging: OEM Bulk Bundle

NEC Black External USB Floppy Disk Drive, Model UF0002S-102, OEM

US Robotics 56K V.90 Internal PCI Modem, Model USR263090 - OEM
Interface: PCI Interface
Standards: V.90 and earlier ITU standards
DTE Rate: 115200 bps maximum
Fax Speed: 14400bps

Creative Labs Sound Blaster 16 Pre-Amp PCI Sound Card
Channels: 2
Polyphony: 128-voice
Digital Audio: 16-Bit
Sample rates: From 5kHz to 48kHz
PC Interface: PCI
Connectors: Line out, Mic In, Auxiliary In, MIDI/Joystick port
Special Features: Microsoft DirectSound and DirectSound 3D

ASUS nVIDIA GeForce 6600GT Video Card, 128MB GDDR3, 128-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, PCI-Express
Chipset/Core Speed: nVIDIA GeForce 6600GT/500MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 128MB GDDR3/1000MHz
BUS: PCI-Express x16
Ports: VGA Out(15 Pin D-Sub) + TV-Out (S-Video/Composite) + DVI
Support 3D API: DirectX 9(Shader Model 3.0), OpenGL 1.5
Max Resolution@32bit Color: 2048X1536@85Hz
RAMDACs: 400MHz
Cable/Accessories: TV out Adapter, DVI to VGA Adapter, Manual, Driver CD
Retail Box (See pics for details)

Grand Total -- $980.00

Probably not the best, or the cheapest parts. But its still pretty good.

Cylix

[dark_15]

As to your first post, I would not know if HP would allow you to switch power supplies. That would be something you would have to ask HP technical support (more than likely, it would be a no).

I am looking at your list of parts in your second post, and from what I can tell, that looks pretty good. However, I would make a few changes:

Drop the soundcard. You will likely be pleased by the integrated sound and I really don't see a need for a seperate card right now.


The PowMax case - I don't know about cases, but PowMax is nototrious for poor quality power supplies. If you're going to spend your money on a decent computer, you must get a decent power supply. Here (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-934&depa=0) is a good example. I also found this case (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=145012) for a decent price and it should provide plenty of air to circulate inside your machine.


The processor - I would grab one of these (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-500&depa=0), one of these (http://heatsinkfactory.com/cgi-bin/HFAstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=HS-008), a little bit of this (http://heatsinkfactory.com/cgi-bin/HFAstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=TM-001), and finally this (http://heatsinkfactory.com/cgi-bin/HFAstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=CF-035) to keep your processor cool. Plus, you will probably be able to overclock that 3200+ to 3500+ speeds and beyond.


The optical drives - do you really need two? If not, then I would buy this (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-106-967&depa=0) instead and get the added feature of being able to burn DVD's (and once the price for media comes down) dual-layer DVD's.

I am also going to PM a mod and get this thread moved to the General Discussion Area, so that more people will be able to see this and help you even more. Good luck with your build! I will check in on this thread every once in a while to see what you think and help you solve any more questions. Good luck!