Folding machines...

[cornbread]

This mostly applies to users who have multiple folding machines. But when you build a machine for folding, what do you guys use? Do you just buy cheap mobo's and cpu's since it's only being used to fold? I know some of you just use donated parts and such too. The reason I ask is I was "thinking" of building another machine, but I didn't want to spend much at all, and I thought that since it would only be used to fold it really wouldn't matter what I used as long as it booted and folds. I was looking at some cheap micro atx boards on Newegg today, thought about going that route.

[Ven0m]

I wouldn't just consider it boot & fold. If machines aren't ****ty and are well organized, you can have a nice cluster for your personal computing too, if you wanted to compile more or make some renders. This way machines would be more useful.

[muddocktor]

The way I usually do it is to decide what I want to do (such as build a new main rig or a cheap folding machine or maybe try out some new component like ram), then use the parts left over to build or upgrade a new folding rig. Right now I have the parts on order to build up a new A64 folder and replace my MSI dually with it due to heat problems in my computer room. A single overclocked A64 machijne should output just about as many points as that particular dually and I plan to sell the mobo, ram, procs and hsf's from that machine and the heat generated by a single A64 proc overclocked will still be less than the dually was putting out. I also shop for bargains on components like looking at newegg's refurbs and buying from reputable peeps in forums. I try not to go with the very cheapest components and I always buy name brand memory and most of the time it's the higher end stuff too.

PS: These database error mesages really suck; I hope they get this fixed soon.

[samuraisam]

PS: These database error mesages really suck; I hope they get this fixed soon.

I second that.

I just get best price/performance. It seems at this point that Athlon XP Mobiles are your best bet.

-Sam

[ChasR]

I'll second Sam's nomination of the XP-M. There is no better bang for the buck. If you want to see what you can expect from an XP-M, read the thread on XP-M scalability. The XP-M, NF7-S and 512MB pc3200 ram cost $230 at Newegg. I've yet to find an XP-M 2500+ or 2600+ that won't run at least 2.4GHz (200x12)
And I third the database errors suckage.

[@md0Cer]

This mostly applies to users who have multiple folding machines. But when you build a machine for folding, what do you guys use? Do you just buy cheap mobo's and cpu's since it's only being used to fold? I know some of you just use donated parts and such too. The reason I ask is I was "thinking" of building another machine, but I didn't want to spend much at all, and I thought that since it would only be used to fold it really wouldn't matter what I used as long as it booted and folds. I was looking at some cheap micro atx boards on Newegg today, thought about going that route.


If you are thinking at starting a folding farm, it usually does prove to be much more efficient to build using cheap parts you can find a good deal on, vs. spending more on a more expensive rig.

I know from your post you are not planning on spending that much cash, but for the cost it would be to build, lets say a quad Xeon or Operon system, you could have built 5-10 or maybe even more cheaper systems for the same amount of money and be producing much more.

I say to keep an eye out of threads like "hey farmers, I have a deal for you" in this section, although I have not been seeing many lately.

Usually you can pick up a cheap Socket A motherboard that gets the job done for 10-20 bucks if you are able to catch a real nice sale, and an Applebred duron for pretty cheap as well. Then, usually forgetting optical drives and extra stuff you wont need, you can probably run it on a really cheap PSU. If you picked up a used but functional hard drive, a cheap motherboard (one with onboard graphics perhaps, may cost a wee bit more) and CPU, a cheap heatsink, and a cheap PSU, you could probably build a functional folding rig for less than 200-250 dollars.

Good Luck! :cool:

[00Buck]

I know from your post you are not planning on spending that much cash, but for the cost it would be to build, lets say a quad Xeon or Operon system, you could have built 5-10 or maybe even more cheaper systems for the same amount of money and be producing much more.

I say to keep an eye out of threads like "hey farmers, I have a deal for you" in this section, although I have not been seeing many lately.

Usually you can pick up a cheap Socket A motherboard that gets the job done for 10-20 bucks if you are able to catch a real nice sale, and an Applebred duron for pretty cheap as well. Then, usually forgetting optical drives and extra stuff you wont need, you can probably run it on a really cheap PSU. If you picked up a used but functional hard drive, a cheap motherboard (one with onboard graphics perhaps, may cost a wee bit more) and CPU, a cheap heatsink, and a cheap PSU, you could probably build a functional folding rig for less than 200-250 dollars.

Good Luck! :cool:

i have a ? regarding your answer about more cheap rigs being better than say two duallie Xeons.

your inital cost may seem more to go with the xeons but what is the long term effect on the electric bill?

I'm sure the xeons (even quad xeons) will draw less wattage than say 10 Athlon XP-M and psu to run them. it would seem to me that after a certain point in time the xeons inital high cost will have recouped itself in the form of your lower electric bill. Now that might not be the best points/dollar but if you cant pay the bill to run the rigs was it really worth it?

I guess my point is when your talking budget never forget the electric bill in the final equation.

I'm sure someone here has hard facts to either prove or disprove my theory.
just my 2 cents worth. peace!

Fold ON!!
Buck
http://www.mentallyretired.com/h3/index.cfm/u_79506 (http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/user_summary.php?s=&u=79506)

[muddocktor]

00Buck, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with your post, in my instance at least. I have 7 rigs folding in my computer room 24/7/365 and my laptop too when I'm in from work. I try to go with as fast a folding machine that I can afford to at the time to maximize my points return for each machine. As it is, I had to add a 9500 btu window ac to my computer room to control all the heat from these rigs and I figure that running and cooling them probably adds around $100/month to the electric bill, expecially in the summertime. That's another reason I only have 2 Northwood P4's in my farm and the rest is either XP or A64 machines because of the extra heat a fully loaded, overclocked P4 generates compared to an XP or A64 rig running overclocked. The 9500 btu ac just barely holds it's own with my farm presently and is one reason why I'm presently replacing my MSI dually rig with an A64 machine, to lower the heat dumped in the room.

Remember, the electric cost not only encompasses the juice to run the farm but also cooling it too. I figure I'm dumping at least as much and maybe more than plugging in a strip heater in my computer room. Now if you don't have to pay the electricity bill, cheaper = better for your farm. As far as hard drives and cdroms and cases and such, I prefer to have my machines in cases and with a cdrom drive for convenience. For hard drives, I salvage what I can for the folding only rigs; I presently have a 30 gig Maxtor my brother gave me when I upgraded his box and a giant old Quantum bigfoot I had given me by my neighbor when I upgraded her old Compaq POS as spares.

[@md0Cer]

i have a ? regarding your answer about more cheap rigs being better than say two duallie Xeons.

your inital cost may seem more to go with the xeons but what is the long term effect on the electric bill?

I'm sure the xeons (even quad xeons) will draw less wattage than say 10 Athlon XP-M and psu to run them. it would seem to me that after a certain point in time the xeons inital high cost will have recouped itself in the form of your lower electric bill. Now that might not be the best points/dollar but if you cant pay the bill to run the rigs was it really worth it?

I guess my point is when your talking budget never forget the electric bill in the final equation.

I'm sure someone here has hard facts to either prove or disprove my theory.
just my 2 cents worth. peace!

Fold ON!!
Buck
http://www.mentallyretired.com/h3/index.cfm/u_79506 (http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/user_summary.php?s=&u=79506)

Very true, that is an extremely valid point in terms of electricty usage, however a single Intel Xeon CPU has a maxTDP of anywhere between 80 and 105 watts, a Duron or XP-M is much much lower, in the 35-60 range.


Now of course you do end up using more power since you have more hdd's, more PSU's, etc. But I think it would still come out roughly the same or less, 4 cheap Socket A systems to a quad Xeon system in terms of power usage.

Although, you would be able to build more than 4 cheap systems for the price of a quad xeon system and end up folding much more, despite perhaps, a slight increase in power consumption. It would all depend on how much you were willing to pay for the systems, and how much you were willing to pay in electrical costs.

[@md0Cer]

00Buck, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with your post, in my instance at least. I have 7 rigs folding in my computer room 24/7/365 and my laptop too when I'm in from work. I try to go with as fast a folding machine that I can afford to at the time to maximize my points return for each machine. As it is, I had to add a 9500 btu window ac to my computer room to control all the heat from these rigs and I figure that running and cooling them probably adds around $100/month to the electric bill, expecially in the summertime. That's another reason I only have 2 Northwood P4's in my farm and the rest is either XP or A64 machines because of the extra heat a fully loaded, overclocked P4 generates compared to an XP or A64 rig running overclocked. The 9500 btu ac just barely holds it's own with my farm presently and is one reason why I'm presently replacing my MSI dually rig with an A64 machine, to lower the heat dumped in the room.

Remember, the electric cost not only encompasses the juice to run the farm but also cooling it too. I figure I'm dumping at least as much and maybe more than plugging in a strip heater in my computer room. Now if you don't have to pay the electricity bill, cheaper = better for your farm. As far as hard drives and cdroms and cases and such, I prefer to have my machines in cases and with a cdrom drive for convenience. For hard drives, I salvage what I can for the folding only rigs; I presently have a 30 gig Maxtor my brother gave me when I upgraded his box and a giant old Quantum bigfoot I had given me by my neighbor when I upgraded her old Compaq POS as spares.

Hmm, I didn't think about the cooling since it hasn't really been much of an issue with me.

I guess that would play a vital role as well. It would depend on where you lived and the climate of the room the computers were in, and again, your budget for utilities.

[00Buck]

Thanks to both @md0Cer and muddocktor for
a: being very nice to a folder from another team
and
b: being open to another view on the age old question. how the @$#% do we get more rigs folding for less or the same amount of cash while still putting full effort into finding a cure?

Fold on!
Buck
http://www.mentallyretired.com/h3/index.cfm/u_79506 (http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/user_summary.php?s=&u=79506)
P.S is my above image legit to post here? guess i should have asked before doing so :eek:

[@md0Cer]

Thanks to both @md0Cer and muddocktor for
a: being very nice to a folder from another team
and
b: being open to another view on the age old question. how the @$#% do we get more rigs folding for less or the same amount of cash while still putting full effort into finding a cure?

Fold on!
Buck
http://www.mentallyretired.com/h3/index.cfm/u_79506 (http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/user_summary.php?s=&u=79506)
P.S is my above image legit to post here? guess i should have asked before doing so :eek:


Thanks for the thanks. :thup:

I would rather see someone fold for our rivals rather than see them not fold at all. :cool:

As for the image, I don't really see why not. Although it may be frowned upon as sig images are disallowed. Technically that is not a sig image even though you are posting it at the end of every post like it is. So, im not sure. You could ask one of the moderators who is online down at the bottom of the forum index.

Ask someone in green (moderators), administrators (red) could help, but they are very busy people. ;)

[samuraisam]

Welcome to the forums!

-Sam :D

[muddocktor]

Your welcome, 00Buck. :) Like @md0Cer said, at least you are folding. As for myself, I hold the [H]'s folding team in the highest regard; you all have a fine, well organized team with some great members. Have you asked this question over there at your forums? If so, what was their consensus?

EDIT: Personally, I have folded for 2 different teams. I started here at O/C in December 2001 and then moved over to the Short Media team for a long while. Now I'm back here to help my original team out to catch up to the [H] and OCAU. :D

And @md0Cer, down here in south Louisiana cooling the farm is a big problem due to the subtropical climate. I'm already having to cut the darn grass, bummer. :(

[@md0Cer]

Your welcome, 00Buck. :) Like @md0Cer said, at least you are folding. As for myself, I hold the [H]'s folding team in the highest regard; you all have a fine, well organized team with some great members. Have you asked this question over there at your forums? If so, what was their consensus?

EDIT: Personally, I have folded for 2 different teams. I started here at O/C in December 2001 and then moved over to the Short Media team for a long while. Now I'm back here to help my original team out to catch up to the [H] and OCAU. :D

And @md0Cer, down here in south Louisiana cooling the farm is a big problem due to the subtropical climate. I'm already having to cut the darn grass, bummer. :(


I agree, [H] has obviously put forth a massive effort in their folding team, otherwise they wouldn't be in the top three like us and OCAU. :) I do have to admit though, it will be an awsome day the day we overtake [H]. :D

Ouch, down in Louisiana, it must be very hard to keep those rigs cool. Unfortunatly, our team is going to take a big hit when summer comes around, bigger electricity bills, lower overclocks, farms shut down or slowed, and big borgs in schools shut down. :(

[Albigger]

Just thought I'd post this, not sure if you could overclock it at all or if Duron's suck for folding but it is a cheap deal.


http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=372966

[@md0Cer]

Yea I saw that!

An Applebred Duron is bassically a Barton core with one fourth the cache enabled. Either that, or it is a Tbred core with half the cache enabled.

From a while ago when I saw the 1.6 and 1.8Ghz Applebred Durons were popular for farms back in the day, they did do a nice 2.2-2.45ish GHz on air (depending on the climate, the quality of the specific chip, and the quality of the air cooling of course ;) ).

I might also add that you can get a 90nm Sempron. It is the Palermo core. In a nutshell it is a Winchester with half the cache and no 64bit instructions. Also with single channel memory only. If you can find a really nice deal on one, it shouldn't be bad at all. They don't generate much heat at all being 90nm with the ability to run on lower Vcore.

[RoadWarrior]

Applebreds are 64K L2 cache chips, that means 1/4 cache of a Tbred or 1/8 Barton.

I've just set one up....
MIUCB (Not a great stepping) Duron 1600 $40 (A while back)
KG7 Motherboard $10 new at a comp fair, insane overstock deal, guy had a pallete full
Stick of DDR $30
Case with 350W PSU $12 new, comp fair deal.
Used coolermaster heatsink $2 \___ See my thread in cooling for details.
Nidec Gamma Blower $7.........../
2G HDD, NIC and 52X CD, PCI GFX card, floppy... Free in a junker
And I've got a 2133Mhz Gromacs stable overclock out of this with the help of the L5 mobile mods and CPUMSR (16x133) and it tore through a 50 pointer in under 12 hours, so figure 700ppw worth for $99 runs 40C gromacs load in 20C ambients, so should survive 30C ambients in the summer.

That's an example of what you can do, I'm actually just running the crappy PCI card and 2G HDD for testing and folding and burning in. (Might push it a few hundred more) Because this won't be a pure folding rig, but a second rig for me (of course it will still fold), so I'm putting AGP graphics and a 40G harddrive in her along with a DVD burner and PVR card, but that stripped down config is folding just fine right now, and could be pared back further with no optical drive etc, or just the optical running knoppix/overfoldix, it's a fairly complete machine as it is right now. I like having things in cases better, than running them bare though. Too many curious cats.

Road Warrior

Edit: BTW, I don't find the lack of cache hurts the Durons much, the Duron @ 1600 in my sig seems to produce the same as the XP1800 palomino @ 1600. The duron has DDR and the XP1800 is on SDRAM though. Durons might be down only 10% on Tbreds max. 3 Duron mobo/CPU combos cost about the same as 2 "good" Tbred + mobo combos, if you get MIUHB or MIUJB or MIXIB steppings then 2.4G out of them should be possible. The Duron in my sig is a MIXIB, I'll get it tuned up and flying soon. I know from some quick testing I did when I got them that it's better than the one above.