Change team location to international?

[Stryfe]

I was looking over the top teams list and noticed that a fair number of the top teams have their location showing as international.
I know this team has plenty of users who aren't in the US (including me). What do you guys think, should we change our location to international?



*EDIT: Now there's a poll, so vote!

[SunRedRX7]

Definitly agree with you.

I always thought it said International but I guess I was mistaken after checking it.

[skab]

But we're number one in the US :clap: , and the US is number one in the country stats :clap: !! If we change to international we drop back to being the number 5 team in the 36th position :cry: :cry:

[ric]

But we're number one in the US

with the help of non us friends;-)

there are several pros and contras, both is valide.

whats the definition of "International", 50 % of member outside the native country?
Could it be a question of number?

perhaps a poll could give some more basic informations about needed/accepted/desired/refused/gusted

over the net, borders dosn't more exits.

[Cúchulainn]

I agree fully and think it's long overdue. 50% of the top ten in boinc seti alone are not in the US. Precisely because this is a borderless, team-oriented endeavour we should be listed as international.

[zulfy26]

Although 50% of top10 aren't US, thats only 5 people. There are 43 out of 220 people that are non us, not exactly a nice extrapilation. Anyways, i dont really care if its international or US.

[Vento1]

I don't mind international or US. It's the people who make up this team that make it the best in the world.

[Steven4563]

i dont mind altho i think it should be kept US because it has always been like that plus the ocforums.com is american after all :)

[Dk Jedi Allianc]

I don´t care about what is says in the far rigth column. It´s the one with team totals and position I care for :p

[The Wizard]

I'm one of the non us team mates !! Go Sweden...;-) :welcome:

I think international seems like a better name when there are
so many non us people in the team !!


Just my thoughts.. :)



The Wizard

[skab]

For BOINC Steti out of 225 listed at BOINCstats.com 179 US, 13 Canada, 8 UK, 2 New Zealand, 3 Sweden, 2 China, 1 Costa Rica, 1 Sinagapore, 1 Sweden, 1 Croatia, 1 Cambodia, 1 Mexico, 1 Portugal, 1 Slovakia, 1 Belgium, 1 South Africa, 1 Ireland, 1 Bulgaria, 1 Greece, 1 Argentina, 1 Netherlands. Close as I could get just browsing the flags, apologies if I missed anyone or mispelled any names.
There 1757 members listed for Seti Classic but no real way to tell were from.
One thing this shows for BOINC at least is that though the numbers of non-US members are not high they sure are diverse, I thought we had some members from Japan also though.

Edit: Realy don't care where the Team say's it's from, just hate to give up number one anywhere, any time. :p

[Shabadoo]

The thing I lhave always liked about Seti is the fact that it is supported internationally. I'm for making our team international.

[heezer7]

Just for another opinion.
I am i the US, doesn't matter to me though. What ever makes everyone happy :D

[rajausa]

I think that the people on our team that are from other countries may possibly want to vote on that !!!!! Have you ever thought that most of them may want to be on a US team. I think we ought to give a welcome and thanks to the other countries on our team for all their efforts in helping OCforums/Overclockers.com Seti/Boinc Teams when they could have very well of joined a team of their own country or another ; and did not choose so :clap:
"Thanks ; for all your help and support for this team in your help in makeing this team the best in the World and what this team is today :clap:

[Hamm3r]

Nice said Rajausa :=)
Lol im the only guy in the team from Croatia :).

[Enkidu]

Indeed Raja.

I'm from the US - all for internationalization of our team - it is just a flag - and we are all a community anyway :)

[ewl2]

Nicely said RajaUSA.

I'm from the good old US of A and i could care less which flag we use. I think makes sense to use the international one as we are very diverse. It may be a good idea to have a poll to see what people think

[Stryfe]

Is there a mod reading this who could to start a poll?
Also, who has access to change our team's info?

[sir_LOIN]

This is something I noticed a long time ago and it's been bugging ever since. The team name is Overclockers.com, it's general, not like if it was Overclockers USA or something. If it was that, I would've never joined!!! We should definitely change it. When I created the Einstein team I of course chose international...

[JigPu]

I'm turning this into a poll under the request of Stryfe (since I see no serious need to create another thread with this one already here :D). Go ahead and cast your votes folks! :)


~~~~~~~~~~~
Personally, I think that it should be made into an International team. Even though we're composed of mostly US members, a scan through the users will reveal that quite a number are not. This forum is truly an international forum, and our teams should be as well (regardless of the comparitive few non-American SETI members we may have) IMHO.

JigPu

[TC]

~~~~~~~~~~~
Personally, I think that it should be made into an International team. Even though we're composed of mostly US members, a scan through the users will reveal that quite a number are not. This forum is truly an international forum, and our teams should be as well (regardless of the comparitive few non-American SETI members we may have) IMHO.

JigPu
I couldn't agree more. I'll make the adjustment when we arrive at a solid conclusion.

[CRFIII]

This crazyness called Overclocking doesn't have any boundries... in fact, it's all about breaking down barriers and boundries... I'm proud to be one of you buncha nutz... I'm also proud to be an American... sometimes, that is... mostly when we remember that we're part of the world... and not separate from it...

The stars we're analyzing have no flags... thank God... and hopefully, they never will...

I vote International.

[{PMS}fishy]

Its a US team on a US forums. Thats the way that I see it anyways.

[CRFIII]

Its a US team on a US forums. Thats the way that I see it anyways.

Perhaps it is... but also, perhaps it might be better to be more inclusive and less exclusive... we should/mUSt honor our "foriegn" friends/comrades/amigos/fellow overclockers(whatever:~)... they're helping out a lot... and there might be more help if we're open to it... jUSt my two cents anyway. :)

[deez]

I always figured the country was where the team was founded not an indicator of its members in which case USA makes sense. Either way it makes no difference to me so I'm not voting. I'll just let the majority rule.

[AQUAJOE]

Can't we all just get along??

[rajausa]

I think e-mail shoud be sent out to everyone on this team to let it be known to them that there is a poll voting on this type of instance ; its only fair to everyone on this team . Is this for everyone or is it just for the people on this team that contribute to the OCforum on a regular basis !!!!! I hope that know one takes this the wrong way :) I have not cast my vote yet ; but i will because i see iff you dont vote you have no say.

[SunRedRX7]

Well I'm part of Team Overclockers.com not because what country its team affiliation is, but rather that this is the best Overclocking website/community in the WORLD.

So I see no reason to limit our team to being the USA overclockers.com.

[AQUAJOE]

I have to agree with RAJAUSA about the e-mailing peoples. Because if the decision is based on what people come in and actually participate in the forum that is not fair what so ever.

[SunRedRX7]

TC has the keys to change the name of the team and its Country affiliation.

Another point against something like Overclockers.com USA.
I wouldn't join Overclockers.com UK, not that I have anything against the UK, just that I prefer the team I belong to in this world wide effort to also be world wide and not limit itself to just one country.

[Stryfe]

This may be a dumb question at this point but is the founder of the group even willing to change the name? I haven't seen a post by the founder that this was even something he was willing to do.

When I asked JigPu to start the poll he checked with TC too make sure changing our "country" is even possible. TC is the one with access to make this change and it is deffinitly possible. And as you can see from his post in this thread he is willing given popular support.

[StormPC]

I think the real question is HOW WILL THE AFFILIATION CHANGE AFFECT THE TEAM?

I joined because this is the best US team. Since most of the crunchers on this team are from the US, even though there are some great crunchers NOT from here, it is logical that we will lose more crunchers with the affiliation change than we will gain. Maybe if the US/non-US crunchers were approximately 50/50 it wouldn't matter.

I believe it would hurt this team, so I voted to keep it US. There is simply nothing to gain by changing it.

If it ain't broke....

[SkyHook]

Just my two cents, but from a history standpoint other team are OC"this" or OC"that" mainly because WE have been OC for a very longtime. When "Skip", "Joe", & the rest of the founding braintrust got into the business of publishing an online site dedicated to overclocking and generally taking the best hardware and ringing every last ounce of performance out of it they were trailblazers. Same with when the Overclockers.com SETI Team was first formed, there was no need for any added tag cause we were the originals, everyone else has had to "tag" themselves for their identity. I personally have no problem with adjusting the country affiliation to "International", but why screw with a Team Name?

Respectfully,
SkyHook

[rajausa]

I agree with you SkyHook i couldnt of said it better. :) StormPC your right on :attn: Iff it Works dont mess with it or dont try to break it :) I dont think people from outside are atracted to this forum because team country affiliation . They are here because they like what we have and what we offer at the OCforums including a real good group of people trying to make things better !!! :)

[AQUAJOE]

I think the real question is HOW WILL THE NAME CHANGE AFFECT THE TEAM?

I joined because this is the best US team. Since most of the crunchers on this team are from the US, even though there are some great crunchers NOT from here, it is logical that we will lose more crunchers with the name change than we will gain. Maybe if the US/non-US crunchers were approximately 50/50 it wouldn't matter.

I believe it would hurt this team, so I voted to keep it US. There is simply nothing to gain by changing it.

If it ain't broke....

And this just reiterates my point.

[SunRedRX7]

Just my two cents, but from a history standpoint other team are OC"this" or OC"that" mainly because WE have been OC for a very longtime. When "Skip", "Joe", & the rest of the founding braintrust got into the business of publishing an online site dedicated to overclocking and generally taking the best hardware and ringing every last ounce of performance out of it they were trailblazers. Same with when the Overclockers.com SETI Team was first formed, there was no need for any added tag cause we were the originals, everyone else has had to "tag" themselves for their identity. I personally have no problem with adjusting the country affiliation to "International", but why screw with a Team Name?

Respectfully,
SkyHook

Well put, no matter what the vote results, keep the team name.

[TC]

I don't see any need to change the name itself. Isn't the idea being discussed here the affiliation?

[SunRedRX7]

Yes the idea being discussed is affiliation, but changing the name to include USA was mentioned so opinions are being voice on it to.


I think we should take it one step farther and it should be Overclockers.com -USA.

[StormPC]

I was speaking only about affiliation.

[Enkidu]

I voted ONLY based on team country affiliation - team name is not on the table for this poll - nor would I vote for it given Skyhook's always-eloquent reasoning.

(And if I'm wrong - Jiggy I'll need to chat w/you to help me change my vote :))
Enk

[Stryfe]

I voted ONLY based on team country affiliation - team name is not on the table for this poll - nor would I vote for it given Skyhook's always-eloquent reasoning.

(And if I'm wrong - Jiggy I'll need to chat w/you to help me change my vote :))
Enk

Yes, you're absolutly right. This vote is about the "country" displayed with our team not the name of the team in any way. The name is perfect the way it is.

[rajausa]

Im Sorry Guys :shrug: i wrote team name in my last post instead of team country affiliation . I made that correction in my last post. That is what i had ment to say . And that is what i voted on :) Thanks :) Can JigPu or someone tell me how long voteing on team country affiliation is going to last ???

[JigPu]

For clarification (in case you haven't picked it up yet :)), this poll is indeed regarding the country affiliation which is reported by SETI. This is NOT a poll to mess with the team's name :)

This poll is being run until a clear winner is decided as TC posted. It has no deadline like the forum poll.
JigPu

[StormPC]

I sorry. It apppears I was the first to mistakenly say "name change" when I mean't "affiliation change". Sorry everybody... :confused:

I made the correction in my post as well. :shrug: :bang head :santa:

[Cy]

My feeling is that the country of origin is what the affiliation should be. Our web site and forums should be/are a testiment to the great international mix that makes our team great. Each member gets to pick their own country affilitation regardless of where they live physically and so international representation is quite visible.

All members of our team should be greatful to all other members of our team for any and all contributions from any and all countries.

EDIT: I should also mention that I am happy to go with the team vote on this issue. Its the Team that is important, not the team flag icon.

Cy

[douglasb]

U.S. seems most fitting, since almost 80% are from USA and the next highest amount (~7.5%) are from Canada, which has always been about one war away from being part of the USA :p (Just kidding about that guys, saw the movie "Canadian Bacon" last week so I thought of it). But when you add it all up, the team is almost 80% from USA, almost 88% from North America. So you could think of it as an American team with a few good "ringers." Either one sounds cool, but I've always thought of OCForums and overclockers.com as sites based in the U.S.

[sir_LOIN]

Now about this Canadian Bacon comment, here's a quick history lesson douglasb. In the region where I live there's this battle called The Battle of Châteauguay. And to make it quick, a small army of 1500 made mostly of french Canadian peasants with the help of a few Mohawks natives and very few british soldiers, kicked 4000 of your invading American butts back to the states! Now you don't see this little bit of history alot in American books. And in British books, they take all the credit for it even though they did almost nothing! History is written by the victor they say... Check it out :

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/fourth_dimension/2003/oct03/24_fd_e.htm

Now why did I post this, simply because this issue is becoming somesort of idiotic patriotic rant! So what if the majority of the members are in US? What if two years from now 80% of the team is from China or India, should we then change it again? Of course not. It should be made internationnal so that everybody is on the same level. It's neutral and politicaly correct.

[StormPC]

douglasb and sir_LOIN,

Please don't trash this thread with comments that have nothing to do with the topic. This is not a political debate.

You may make a US vs Canada thread if you wish, but you guys should at least attempt to stay on topic here.

[Cúchulainn]

Now why did I post this, simply because this issue is becoming somesort of idiotic patriotic rant! So what if the majority of the members are in US? What if two years from now 80% of the team is from China or India, should we then change it again? Of course not. It should be made internationnal so that everybody is on the same level. It's neutral and politicaly correct.
:thup: Here's to the peameal bacon! :beer:

[sir_LOIN]

You just didn't get it StormPC! It's precisly because I find this patriotic bs stupid that I posted this. The great thing about the internet is that it's worldwide, it doesn't belong to any country in particular. Boinc and distributed projects are just the same and I think we need to reflect that.

[StormPC]

You post "patriotic bs" because you think it's stupid? Forgive me if I don't get it.

I think you don't get it. This thread is to discuss the pros and cons of changing the country affiliation LABLE! It's not a political forum for Canadians OR Americans and trying to turn it into such is very disrespectful to everyone. This team is not just Canadians and Americans. Arguing the affiliation change based on "political bs" as you call it is obviously "stupid".

Do you have any opinions on topic? That is, NOT based on politics? Why don't you try answering the question I posed? How do you think the affiliation change would affect the SETI team and why?

[douglasb]

Now about this Canadian Bacon comment, here's a quick history lesson douglasb. In the region where I live there's this battle called The Battle of Châteauguay. And to make it quick, a small army of 1500 made mostly of french Canadian peasants with the help of a few Mohawks natives and very few british soldiers, kicked 4000 of your invading American butts back to the states! Now you don't see this little bit of history alot in American books. And in British books, they take all the credit for it even though they did almost nothing! History is written by the victor they say... Check it out :

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/fourth_dimension/2003/oct03/24_fd_e.htm

Now why did I post this, simply because this issue is becoming somesort of idiotic patriotic rant! So what if the majority of the members are in US? What if two years from now 80% of the team is from China or India, should we then change it again? Of course not. It should be made internationnal so that everybody is on the same level. It's neutral and politicaly correct.


Thanks for the history lesson. My JOKE really needed to be taken so seriously and countered with factual historical information. I am not very patriotic at all actually, and for the record, I would probably rather live in Canada than the U.S., if it were just a little bit more "commercialized" (more readily available retail shops....and if more places were willing to ship there :cool: ) Anyhow, I was going to make some off-color comments about "roid rage" but decided against it, because in actuality you probably aren't on them anyways, and if you ever got a hold of me, ouch!

That being said, my post was nothing about patriotism or anything of the sort. I said that the vast majority of the team is from the U.S. so it should stay that way. If 80% of the team is from elsewhere, you mention "changing it again," but in actuality my suggestion was to NOT change it a first time. There is a 4:1 ratio of US to non-US members on the team, and it just makes more sense to me that it should be represented that way.

How about we just change it to the Jamaican flag? That one looks cooler anyways. :shrug:

[StormPC]

Joking (especially sarcasm) does not go over well online. Even if it did this really isn't the place for it. I believe the creator of this thread wants us to offer points of view on a subject, not slapstick comedy.

It's easy to shoot someone in the forehead (well, for me anyway) and then say you're sorry. Doesn't help the dead guy much though no matter how heartfelt the apology.

I see your points though and I agree, but maybe not for the exact same reasons. :)

[sir_LOIN]

I wanted to shock people with my post, looks like I did! lol

I did it to prove the point that we must change it to international, here’s why. I’m sure I’ve shocked a bunch of you with that patriotic rant I did. Political talk is always bound to stir things up. That and religion are about the worst topics! So as I previously wrote, the only way to avoid this mess is that all of us must compromise. If it’s international, we’re all on the same level, there’s no patriotism and no favorites. I think it’s the most politically correct way to do it. All the other Overclockers.com teams are international already, why not Seti? For the moment, the majority of people in the teams are from the US, but who’s to say how it’s going to be in the future?

I did see Canadian Bacon and I loved it! Michael Moore sure made a funny movie. ¦¬) Now you all know the South Park lyrics, ‘Blame Canada, blame Canada’… lol!

Roid rage? Hey I'm not a baseball player! lol

[StormPC]

the only way to avoid this mess is that all of us must compromise. If it’s international, we’re all on the same level, there’s no patriotism and no favorites.
I was not aware of this situation. In what way are we not on the same level and in what way does changing a lable help (assuming it's true)?

I think it’s the most politically correct way to do it.
How will political correctness help the team? When I joined it was not a factor. Greatness is a factor, and this is a great team.

All the other Overclockers.com teams are international already, why not Seti? For the moment, the majority of people in the teams are from the US, but who’s to say how it’s going to be in the future?.
Again, even if this is true you have failed to show any link to the affiliation lable and benefit for the team.

I did see Canadian Bacon and I loved it! Michael Moore sure made a funny movie. ¦¬) Now you all know the South Park lyrics, ‘Blame Canada, blame Canada’… lol!

Roid rage? Hey I'm not a baseball player! lol

No comment. :rolleyes:

[sir_LOIN]

StormPC you confirm the saying that if you make something idiot proof, a better idiot will come along to prove you wrong!

[StormPC]

Really? How so?

Seems to me you're just spewing to hear yourself spew.

That's cool if you don't answer my questions (had a feeling you were just bs'ing more anyway) but no reason to lose your cool and attack me personally (as if you know who I am). Calm down there killer, and answer my questions. You know, dialog? :rolleyes:

[skab]

I think that some points need to be brought up:
1. This is not a "POLITICAL FORUM", please leave that C___p out of here!!!
2. How many WU's you do has no bearing on anything other than were you place in the team standings. THIS IS A TEAM!!!
3. This team's affiliation has always been United States and this has'nt changed, nobody snuck this in on anybody. When you register at SETI BOINC it states the team affiliation.
4. What the other teams are should'nt be a deciding factor here, if we were letting the other teams decide for us than we would folding or something else.
5. This poll needs to run for a "very very" long time, a lot of us end up going for long periods of time without accessing the forums due to various reasons.
6. Some of us don't like change, for any reason.
7. Can we change our affiliation to EARTH, that way we get a jump on everybody else when ET is spotted and avoid any political titles.

[/COLOR] Edit: #3 For accuracy added BOINC.

[SunRedRX7]

How will political correctness help the team? When I joined it was not a factor. Greatness is a factor, and this is a great team.

Its easy to say the affiliation has no bearing, until you look at it from the point of someone that is not from the United States.

[Stryfe]

7. Can we change our affiliation to EARTH, that way we get a jump on everybody else when ET is spotted and avoid any political titles.
Or how about Universal, that way we don't exclude ET from joining our team and helping look for other ETs :p

I believe the creator of this thread wants us to offer points of view on a subject, not slapstick comedy.
You're quite right. I wrote the initial post in a way I had hoped would inspire intelligent discussion of the issue. For the most part we've accomplished that so far.
I would hope people would try to only debate the points of others when they're objective points. Debating something that is subjective doesn't often go anywhere and tends to get the debaters riled up.


Its easy to say the affiliation has no bearing, until you look at it from the point of someone that is not from the United States.
Deffinitely. There's a lot of distaste for the US in the international community right now. I'm not saying weather it's justified or not just that that is the case. Someone who's looking for a team to join may consider us but decide against it just because they don't agree with US foreign policy or something like that. We here at Overclockers.com have nothing to do with US foreign policy so why should we let things like this have any affect on us?

[douglasb]

It makes the most sense to me to keep it the same because of the reasons I stated, but I can see where a lot of you guys are coming from. I guess my motto is just, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." But this is OCForums, so it's more like "if it ain't broke, overclock it, and if it breaks get a new one and try again!" I'm cool with whatever, but that was just my 2 cents on it. US is fine with me, International is fine with me, heck even some country or place that none of us belong to is fine with me.

[AQUAJOE]

YAY we have some others in here now that will get everyone off my case.
:)
lol

[SunRedRX7]

I'm cool with whatever, but that was just my 2 cents on it. US is fine with me, International is fine with me, heck even some country or place that none of us belong to is fine with me.

I VOTE ANTARTICA! It is an option and think of the overclocks one could get there! :D

[StormPC]

Deffinitely. There's a lot of distaste for the US in the international community right now. I'm not saying weather it's justified or not just that that is the case. Someone who's looking for a team to join may consider us but decide against it just because they don't agree with US foreign policy or something like that. We here at Overclockers.com have nothing to do with US foreign policy so why should we let things like this have any affect on us?

I agree with you 99.9999%....BUT...

1) I never said the affiliation doesn't affect whether a person joins us or not, only that it is not the main concern. I only joined the team a couple of days ago, and it was in part due to the fact that I am proud to be from the US and I wanted to be part of a good US team, which this is. Will I leave here if the affiliation changes? I don't know, but probably not. It's not that important to me. But judging from the number of US vs non-US members I can say that it is likely others DO feel that way and it may be important to them. At any rate, to change the affiliation of the team for what may or may not happen, or to be "politically correct" is unwise at best.

2) Most of those who are not from the US had sense enough to look at the affiliation. For all we know they could have joined BECAUSE they wanted to be on a US team. This is probably not the only reason but may be a big part of it. Maybe if this poll runs awhile we'll find out (if people can refrain from bashing each other which would be a very good thing) these people will make their voices heard.

Unfortunately there are too many crunchers that do NOT frequent the forums, so for this poll to be meaningful it needs to run quite awhile so that there is adequate representation.

I think even if most are in favor of a change, unless someone can show evidence that it would benefit the team I am 100% against it! So far I have seen nothing of the sort, but I'm open.

[SunRedRX7]

2) Most of those who are not from the US had sense enough to look at the affiliation.

Many of us when we first joined the team, joined up with the classic SETI version.

Tell me where it shows team affiliation here?
http://setiathome2.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_94265.html

I joined completly based on how much I like this forum, and how much help I've received here from its members.

[heezer7]

I joined completly based on how much I like this forum, and how much help I've received here from its members.

Same here. I didn't even know it was a "US" team till this little war broke out. First off, I personally don't care what we are listed as. It seems like all the international people want it to be international and the US people don't care liek me or think we will scare off members. That being said, would anyone quit if it changed to international?

[skab]

:argue: Been looking thru Seti classic and hav'nt found anything stating affiliation of any kind one way or the other, does'nt realy appear to have been an option for teams in the classic version. Appears that in seti classic the International standings were just that, a list of all standings without regards to a country. Overclockers.comSeti team is not listed under any countries standings. :shrug:
:bang head Having been under the percerption that we've been a US team my self I find this disturbing as it shows how little it mattered to me at the team I joined this team.
I still say let's go with EARTH so we can at least keep our #1 ranking in our chosen affiliation. :p

[douglasb]

Same here. I didn't even know it was a "US" team till this little war broke out. First off, I personally don't care what we are listed as. It seems like all the international people want it to be international and the US people don't care liek me or think we will scare off members. That being said, would anyone quit if it changed to international?

I certainly hope not. Let's not forget what we are here for and why we do this.

[rajausa]

I know this is an old saying ; but if its not broke don't try to fix it !!!!! I dont know about some of you but i like this team just as it is ; and this is one heck of a very good group of people trying to make things better ; i see !!! Although we do have our differences ; and the voting is still in place ; a conclusion of all of this posting and voting will be reached . I just hope everyone can be happy to know that they have joined the best (Team) in the world and thanks to "---All----" that have helped make that happen :clap: :attn:

[StormPC]

Its easy to say the affiliation has no bearing, until you look at it from the point of someone that is not from the United States.Yesterday 01:55 PM

I joined completly based on how much I like this forum, and how much help I've received here from its members.Yesterday 06:03 PM

My what a difference a few hours make! :shrug:

[SunRedRX7]

My what a difference a few hours make! :shrug:

Your point?

Affiliation had no bearing on me joining the team. Pretty hard for it to have an impact when its not even mentioned on the SETI Classic pages where I signed up.

Your also still not looking at it from the point of view from someone outside the United States and that this is an INTERNATIONAL community in an INTERNATIONAL project and thanks to the WORLD WIDE web were all able to communicate with one another.

[AQUAJOE]

StormPC they are just not getting it. That some of us new members joined because it was the USA team.

[SunRedRX7]

But it is all but about 2 seconds to make another team Overclockers.com/USA.

Nice to see you'll go with whatever the vote is.

And will some people leave if it doesn't change? Maybe?

Your also not getting that everyone that joined the team in the classic days saw no representation of the team's affiliation. Which would be this list of members
http://setiathome2.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_94265.html

[AQUAJOE]

I have been crunching Seti since 2001 I understand that if didn't show country representation. But in the World of distributed computing they looked at what everyone else was doing and made some changes to try to keep up.

[SunRedRX7]

No I get that. But in order to draw in new members you need to do something different or throw some kind of bone out there.

I would say having this great Ocforum.com itself would be enough. I'd bet more people discovered our distributed computing teams thru the forums then going to the SETI website and sorting by which team was the highest for their country.

[SkyHook]

Well "AQUAJOE", it once again appears that you have picked up and taken your toys elsewhere. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me, cause quite frankly I've pretty much had it with this whole "New Era" BS. This idea that we have to "market" ourselves corrctly to succeed in the "business" of SETI, or that we have to be "Politcally Correct" lest we offend is not what this team was ever all about. We never used the "Hard Sell" to solicit members and we never advocated sneeky underhanded methods, sometimes referred to as "Borging" in order to gain the usage of unknowing machines. What we did do was be ourselves, a group of content and helpful individuals who welcomed anyone who read our results and liked the atmosphere we tried very hard to nurture here. When did the self-satisfaction of being part of a friendly group of hardware junkies get replaced by this "Big Business", "Global Entity" monster?

And when did I, as one of the "OldTimers", with antiquaited ideas become part of the "enemy"? I've read here recently that we have to scrap this old "horse and buggy" thinking if we want to get ahead in the "New World", well maybe I'm never going to be ready for the "New World" cause I fail to see the glaring flaws many of you seem to be so intent on correcting now.

For the "New Guard", I sure hope you have the stamina and dedication to see these great visions of yours through to the end, cause this team wasn't built by people who changed affiliations as easily as one changes underwear.

I've said my piece and will foster no debate on the subject, I am who I am and have no intention of changing.

Respectfully
SkyHook

[Stryfe]

Well said Skyhook, as usual. :)

I also joined this team because of the people. I'd been reading Overclockers.com since about 1999 and one day I was wandering the site and saw the link about the SETI team. I followed it and found out about SETI(I'd never heard of it) and also about the forums(I'd never visited them before). I joined SETI and started an account on the forums. For a few days while I was figuring out SETI I was pretty active in the SETI forum. What I discovered was a team full of friendly, intelligent, generous people. Three days after joining SETI I joined this team and it's been my home since. It's deffinitely the kind of people who make up this team that have kept me here, not our production or world standing.

I didn't start this thread with any intention of causing friction in the forum. I honestly just noticed we were US and thought, "I bet the guys in the forum don't even realize it's US and wouldn't think twice of changing it to represent our team's true nature." Apparently I was only about 55% right about that (at least so far).

[AQUAJOE]

Picked up what toys. My toys are still here for Seti and Predictor thankyou very much. I have alot of toys and can distribute them how I please.

When you get a Forum for Einstien and the other Boinc Projects maybe OC will get all of my machines.

But really what is to gain from changing the affiliation?? Thats all I am asking.

(Special note wear underware 3 days on each side) You can go longer between washings then. :bang head

Isn't this fun!!!

[sir_LOIN]

I had been crunching by myself for years and it's only recently that I joined a team. I also joined this team like many others because of the interesting forums. And like SunRedRX7 pointed out, the old Seti never had any country affiliation. Or if there ever was one, I never saw it. I'm not sure but I think that it's only with Boinc that they put this on. And it's a good thing that there wasn't any US affiliation because I would've never joined! Not that I have a problem with my US neighbors, but why would I crunch for another country than mine?

Now Skyhook, you wrote: 'This idea that we have to "market" ourselves correctly to succeed in the "business" of SETI, or that we have to be "Politcally Correct" lest we offend is not what this team was ever all about.' So if I get this right, you're saying that this team is not about being politically correct??? So it's ok to offend then. What's up with that?

[StormPC]

You don't see how these two statements...

Your also not getting that everyone that joined the team in the classic days saw no representation of the team's affiliation.

I joined completly based on how much I like this forum, and how much help I've received here from its members.

are completely contradicting this...

Its easy to say the affiliation has no bearing, until you look at it from the point of someone that is not from the United States.

I made the statement that affiliation shouldn't be a large factor but showed that it was a factor for me. Others confirmed that they also joined at least in part because we have an American affiliation.

You posted that "It's easy to say..." yada yada yada...suggesting that it's a larger factor than I was saying it was.

Now you have several posts claiming that it never was a factor for you long-timers.

Are you on drugs or just not paying attention to what you say? :shrug:

[SunRedRX7]

Now you have several posts claiming that it never was a factor for you long-timers.

Listen!!!

It Wasn't A Factor For Us Old Timers Because The Country Affiliation Did Not Exist Before BOINC

So if the Country Affiliation didn't exist, theres a pretty good chance I bet it didn't have an impact on us old timers joining up or not.

Sir_LOIN has already stated that the country affiliation would have had an impact on his joining if it existed back then.

The most there was to describe the team back then on the Seti site was this statement by the founder:

We are a group of hobbyists who overclock our computers to achieve maximum performance

[StormPC]

Take a pill dude. Try to keep your anger in check please.

So, why don't you tell us all, if affiliation was not a factor in the good ole days, why is it now?

And SkyHook?

If you feel this way...

"New Era" BS. This idea that we have to "market" ourselves corrctly to succeed in the "business" of SETI, or that we have to be "Politcally Correct" lest we offend is not what this team was ever all about."

...then why do you seem to defend those like SunRedRX7 and sir_LOIN who seem to think we need an affiliation change yet post no valid reasons for this desire aside from silly comments like "politically correct" and "the only way to avoid this mess is that all of us must compromise. If it’s international, we’re all on the same level, there’s no patriotism and no favorites."???

I repeat...if those who wish the affiliation to change can not come up with anything better than this I'd say changing would not be worth the risk.

Why don't we shut up now and let others voice their opinions, as I believe everybody knows our takes on the subject, eh???

[SunRedRX7]

Take a pill dude. Try to keep your anger in check please.

The large type was not anger, but rather an attempt to show you a point I have made several times.

if affiliation was not a factor in the good ole days, why is it now?

OK, one more time...

In the "good ole days", Affiliation, DID NOT EXIST.
Therefore, it was hard for it to be a factor since it did not exist.
Like how airbags were not a factor in automotive safety numbers back in the 1930s.

So from us "old timers" point of view, the affiliation was changed from None, to United States.

[StormPC]

I understand airbags. Until you can tell me why affiliation needs to change (please avoid the drama and just state your point?) I think you're just passing time.

Like what do you think it will accomplish and why do you think that?

If you can not give reasons then you probably have none. That would put you in a category known as unreasonable, which is how you appear to me so far. So say something to make me think this is something more than killing boredom.

btw...I like the idea of the affiliation being "none" but again, unless you can show that it will help rather than hurt the team I will oppose it.

[SunRedRX7]

1. We have international membership that deserves to be represented.
2. Some members do not wish to be part of a US team, national pride isn't just for Americans.
3. Team affiliation has always been NONE, till BOINC was released in July 2004 adding the team affiliation category.
4. Our team's affiliation is to overclockers.com if it belongs to any entity at all.

[StormPC]

1. Everyone's nationality is clearly shown in their individual stats. Changing the team affiliation will not change their individual nationalities, so this is not true.

2. How will changing the affiliation make a person more proud of his nation?

3. And how much productivity did we lose because of it? I'd bet it actually increased. This should definitely be researched by those with the data.

4. That depends on who you ask. If you ask me it looks like it's a US team. Most of the members are from the US. The guys who started and run the websites are from the US. The team affiliation is listed as US. So what is your comment based on? I asked you to leave out the drama but I guess you can't.

Sounds like more of the same *****e to me. What am I missing here? Can somebody help SunRed out here?

[AQUAJOE]

Sorry he is From Upstate NY. Last time I was in syracuse I was arrested.( at the Airport) I have friends in Watertown and Brownsville. ( Was stationed at Ft.Drum For thee years before going to Somalia) Not much help around for those in buffalo. (Cow tipping)

[Stryfe]

1. We have international membership that deserves to be represented.
2. Some members do not wish to be part of a US team, national pride isn't just for Americans.
3. Team affiliation has always been NONE, till BOINC was released in July 2004 adding the team affiliation category.
4. Our team's affiliation is to overclockers.com if it belongs to any entity at all.
1. Everyone's nationality is clearly shown in their individual stats. Changing the team affiliation will not change their individual nationalities, so this is not true.
2. How will making the affiliation make a person more proud of his nation?
3. And how much productivity did we lose because of it? I'd bet it actually increased. This should definitely be researched by those with the data.
4. That depends on who you ask. If you ask me it looks like it's a US team. Most of the members are from the US. The guys who started and run the websites are from the US. The team affiliation is listed as US. So what is your comment based on? I asked you to leave out the drama but I guess you can't.

Sounds like more of the same *****e to me. What am I missing here? Can somebody help SunRed out here?

#3 is why you two will never listen to each other. StormPC looks at this from the standpoint of production/standings/attracting new members, the "business" side of things. SunRedRX7 looks at this as being about if it's fair to the members that they went from being on a team that was global, to now being affiliated to just one country.

You're both looking at this so completely differently. Nither of you will see the other's point as valid because it doesn't acheive what you see as the goal of changing our affiliation.

Agree to disagree?

[SunRedRX7]

Agree to disagree?

Yes

[hitokiri_808]

I see no political boundaries on the internet. I vote remove any national affiliation from the teams. But thats not an option so I vote international. :p

[StormPC]

I see no political boundaries on the internet. I vote remove any national affiliation from the teams. But thats not an option so I vote international. :p

Correct! The way BOINC is set up is not under OC Forums' control so that's not within their power. They did not decide to include affiliation, Berkeley (also in the US) did. We don't have a choice to illiminate it, only to change it. I don't even believe "None" is an option. International is the closest option to none I believe.

Also, I'm not looking at this from a business standpoint. I was just under the impression that crunching well is good for the team. How can you say you care about the team and then ignore the possible negative affects of what should be a relatively trivial and meaningless change in affiliation?

You guys talk about being fair. Some might consider it unfair to the 75+ percent of our members who are from the US and are happy to be affiliated with a US team. Where is your sense of fairness for them?

I'm still waiting for someone to point out the likely affects of the affiliation change (assuming it happens) and the reasoning (not the drama) behind this agenda. I just don't see the point. Everything offered so far is just dramatic political garbage IMO.

[SunRedRX7]

Stryfe you hit this right on the head with your post.

Whats written for the most part in this thread is people's opinions and feelings on the subject which makes sense considering whats being discussed.

There is no clear cut right and wrong, opinions differ, read thru the entire thread and you'll see that there are feelings strongly on both sides.

Its not a matter of someone saying the Empire State building is 381m/1250ft tall and arguing over it being true or not. Its more along the lines of an argument of "Which building is better, Empire State Building or the Sears Tower?"(I could use way better examples, but I'm not going to mention them due to forum guideines).
We all vary on what is of importance to us when we judge something. Some may go by one being taller, location, aesthetics....

One thing for sure is that crunching is for the science and the teams are for creating a fun athmosphere. For fear of myself losing that feeling I'm backing off from this thread for a while.

On a lighter note:
I wish it would stop snowing, I wanted to rollerblade this weekend :rolleyes:

BOINC ON PEOPLE!

[skab]

UH, actually it appears that none is an option with BOINC, at least if you look at this page http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/top_teams.php. Although on some of the stats sites this would just show as international anyways. :bang head

[StormPC]

You'll notice the top twenty teams in your link are mostly NOT international affiliations. The Czech Republic, Netherlands, United States, Finland, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Japan and Croatia teams all have members not actually located in those countries. I wonder if these non-US countries have as little pride in their affiliations as many of those who have posted in this thread. Somehow I doubt it.

Too bad that humans have so little appreciation for what they have, and for what so many have fought and died for. And this is not politics, just truth.

I'm done with this thread as well for the time being.

[Stryfe]

You guys talk about being fair. Some might consider it unfair to the 75+ percent of our members who are from the US and are happy to be affiliated with a US team. Where is your sense of fairness for them?
Here's what I meant by being fair. Yes, roughly 75% of the team is from the US. However of those 75% at least half have been around since SETI classic. During SETI classic they joined a team that had no national affliation. Now their team has a national affiliation and they were never asked what they thought before hand. You can't just assume that because a member lists their nationallity as US they're happy having the team's affiliation changed to US. That's what this thread is about, giving our members the choice they were never given, one way or the other.


p.s. I'm glad the two of you have decided to leave this alone for a bit. You'd both refined your points and made them quite clear by repeating them to each other. Now they're here for people to read and think about when they make their own decision. But I think they're as refined as they're going to get and repeating them to each other isn't really going to get either of you anywhere but frusturated.

[JigPu]

...and then ignore the possible negative affects of what should be a relatively trivial and meaningless change in affiliation?
...Huh?

You point out that this should be a "relatively trivial and meaningless change", yet say that there are "possible negative affects". If it's trivial and meaningless, what negative effects would it have? You don't make this clear, and it's difficult to explain why we believe the change wouldn't be bad if we don't know the specific problems you see with it :)


You guys talk about being fair. Some might consider it unfair to the 75+ percent of our members who are from the US and are happy to be affiliated with a US team. Where is your sense of fairness for them?
Some might consider that LESS than "75+ percent" of our team who are from the US care that this is a "US" team. Remember, the VAST majority of members were automatically imported from the SETI@Home classic database, where there was no concept of "US" or "International". I would venture to say that the reason most joined was NOT that this was a US team, but that this was an Overclocking team.

I'm still waiting for someone to point out the likely affects of the affiliation change (assuming it happens) and the reasoning (not the drama) behind this agenda. I just don't see the point. Everything offered so far is just dramatic political garbage IMO.
Likely effects? Probably almost nothing. Like you said, this should be a "relatively trivial and meaningless change". If you can see some effects though, PLEASE point them out so that the rest of us can make better informed votes.

Reasoning? SunRedRX7 gave them already :) But since you offered counterpoints which have not been addressed, I'll do that now :)


1. Everyone's nationality is clearly shown in their individual stats. Changing the team affiliation will not change their individual nationalities, so this is not true.
Fair enough. :) Though if somebody else has a reasonable counter-argument, I'd love to hear it :D

2. How will making the affiliation make a person more proud of his nation?
Changing the affiliation won't make any person more proud of his nation. However, this isn't what Sun was getting at. What he meant was that national pride isn't something that exists only for Americans. If a German person has the choice between German, International, and American teams, which will he choose? Likely the German one to help national pride. In effect we are "scaring away" people from other nations. This of course goes both ways though, making our team much more enticing to American members as you allude in point 3, where I'll touch on the impact on production.

3. And how much productivity did we lose because of it? I'd bet it actually increased. This should definitely be researched by those with the data.
How much productivity did we loose? Probably none, because we were already members of the team and didn't care what the affiliation of the BOINC team was. However, how much more production could we have had if it were set to international? Obviously this is debateable, but I would look to the number of non-US BOINC members for that :)

Regarding research, unfortunatly, nobody can really know. If this were ONLY a matter of changing affiliation from "None" to "US", it would be possible. However, a transition from Classic to BOINC also occured durring the process which makes it impossible. There is no baseline of BOINC production prior to the "US" affiliation (beause that's what the BOINC team started with), and an attempt to somehow make a baseline based on Classic wouldn't work since it'd be far to arbitary and sensitive to the numbers you choose.


4. That depends on who you ask. If you ask me it looks like it's a US team. Most of the members are from the US. The guys who started and run the websites are from the US. The team affiliation is listed as US. So what is your comment based on? I asked you to leave out the drama but I guess you can't.
Very true. However, I would argue that there's more to it than members and where it was started. Specifically, I'd argue that "affiliation" depends on who an entity caters to. OCAU may be mainly Austrailian, but what really makes it OCAU is the fact that their news, reviews, etc are all geared toward an Australian audience. Overclockers.com and OCForums.com provide international news, reviews, etc, making us an international site (regardless of our high American member count).

JigPu

[AQUAJOE]

Nice Job Guys badgering the new guys when they have an opinion is not going to keep people here. So Storm is gone now.

Another High CS hitter gone.


Make the darn change and move the frick on.

Lets see how long it takes for you all to chase off coolblue.

[Stryfe]

Nice Job Guys badgering the new guys when they have an opinion is not going to keep people here. So Storm is gone now.

Another High CS hitter gone.


Make the darn change and move the frick on.

Lets see how long it takes for you all to chase off coolblue.

Storm did just as much badgering as anyone else in this thread has.
Besides he says he left because of anti-US sentiment. I myself haven't seen any anti-US sentiment but maybe I'm missing something?

(by anti-US sentiment I'm assuming he means people have something against America and/or Americans, not just being against having our affiliation showing as US)

[sir_LOIN]

We still haven't heard from the team's Boinc founder Daniel Edgar...I'd like to hear why he choose US in the first place and not international.

[Stryfe]

We still haven't heard from the team's Boinc founder Daniel Edgar...I'd like to hear why he choose US in the first place and not international.

I'm not sure that he actually did have anything to do with the affiliation being set. I think it was just something that was done automatically when BOINC was first setup. I could be wrong though.
Since I've joined the team I never seen anything posted from Daniel Edgar. I'm not even sure who he is. Maybe TC knows?

[JigPu]

Daniel ~ was the founder of the SETI team (from what I understand), and is one of the very early members of this site. If you think I'm an old fogie [queue old fogie jokes :D], he's been around since 12-16-00 (and possibly earlier, since there was some kind of forum change before I joined). Shortly after I joined though, he left because of disagreements with the staff and hasn't been back since. His last post was on 09-15-01 (2.5 years ago).

While I'm sure Daniel ~ would be pleased that the team has grown so much, it is not something I think he keeps tabs on anymore and would have comments about. TC has taken over his job as the person with the team controls, and is the person who would know how the affiliation was set by default.

JigPu

[mat1979]

you might have noticed that the "Alliance francophone" team, which is supposedly a team tailored to the french speaking people (but as it says, welcoming others as well), is made up of a very high proportion of french people (like 95% or something!), has been created by french guys, has a french forum and all and still is listed as an international team.
i think if the french can do it, so can we.
let's go for international

[StormPC]

you might have noticed that the "Alliance francophone" team, which is supposedly a team tailored to the french speaking people (but as it says, welcoming others as well), is made up of a very high proportion of french people (like 95% or something!), has been created by french guys, has a french forum and all and still is listed as an international team.
i think if the french can do it, so can we.
let's go for international

So the fact that you can do something means you should do it? Can you not shoot yourself in the forehead? I think you can. Should you? :shrug:

[SunRedRX7]

So the fact that you can do something means you should do it? Can you not shoot yourself in the forehead? I think you can. Should you? :shrug:

Can't you let anyone have an opinion that differs of your own?

[sir_LOIN]

I'm canadian french, anybody has problem with that?

Just kidding, won't open that can of worms! L'alliance francophone is a very good example actually. It's all based in France and they have a site kinda like ours www.hardware.fr with reviews, forums and overclocking... So your point is good mat1979, they're international even though the vast majority of the team is french.

And you're right StormPC it's not because others shoot themselves in the head that we must too, but it's also right that if we keep shooting ourselves in the foot that we should stop!

[mat1979]

stormpc, you don't like the french doing something not your way do you?

[douglasb]

you might have noticed that the "Alliance francophone" team, which is supposedly a team tailored to the french speaking people (but as it says, welcoming others as well), is made up of a very high proportion of french people (like 95% or something!), has been created by french guys, has a french forum and all and still is listed as an international team.
i think if the french can do it, so can we.
let's go for international

I'm gonna catch all heck for saying this, but France seems to have built up quite a reputation (whether it's deserved or not, I can't say) for giving in. Of course, this is based primarily on earlier military exploits, not on matters of priniciple or standing up for what they believe in. I guess my point is that this wasn't the best example for trying to sway someone to your side. Nothing wrong with doing as others do, but that should never be the main or only reason for doing something. Maybe I missed it somewhere, but I didn't see you list any other reasons for changing. However, my ears are open if you have any that haven't already been mentioned (and I've heard some good ones).

[sir_LOIN]

Again douglasb, you should pick and read history books... That nice avatar you have is a fleur de lys... Used by french monarchy among others and appears on the flag of where I'm from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleur_de_lys

Now one of my earlier points was that we should change to international to be fair to everyone and to avoid any patriotic or political mess, anybody want to argue this now with all these idiotic posts???

[douglasb]

Again douglasb, you should pick and read history books... That nice avatar you have is a fleur de lys... Used by french monarchy among others and appears on the flag of where I'm from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleur_de_lys

Now one of my earlier points was that we should change to international to be fair to everyone and to avoid any patriotic or political mess, anybody want to argue this now with all these idiotic posts???

Nah, I hate history and I don't care for books much either. Anyways, I never said that I believed that personally, just that such a reputation had been built (at least here in the U.S.) and that it may be undeserved (I really wouldn't know). Nothing against France (or any other country, really) but I just don't think that was a very good reason for changing. For the record, I am originally from Louisiana (lived there for 23 years, almost 12 of which where in the Lafayette area, which is about as Cajun as you can get) and have some French Canadian heritage as well. So I am well aware of what "fleur de lis," as we spell them, are ("fleur de lys" in proper French). It is also the logo for my favorite football team, the New Orleans Saints :attn: Which have a better chance of winning the Super Bowl than we have of getting everyone to agree on this issue. In fact, for the sake of unity, discount my "keep it the same" vote and let it be known that I think it should change now. Honestly, when I signed up, I didn't even look at national affiliation, or know that it was even there.

[katelin]

Interesting thread. In my opinion, one of the biggest "thing" about the internet is that it eliminates any national boundaries whatsoever. And for a distributed computing project like SETI that spans pretty much across the globe, you'd think they would not include any national affilation to the teams.

[StormPC]

stormpc, you don't like the french doing something not your way do you?

To tell you the truth I never thought about it. What is a french? You mean like fries at McDonald's?

[skab]

:cool: I think it's just amazing that with all the posts :argue: here that's it appears that most of our members realy don't consider this to be an issue. I base this on the fact that only 40 :shrug: members have bothered to vote so far.
Kind of puts the truth in the statement that most of us here for "OVERCLOCKERS.COM" and not for where it's based out of huh? :p

[rajausa]

Your comment appears to be true Skab !!! The prize is in the pudding ; over 1500 people have looked at the thread and most are not concerned . It looks like International it shall be :shrug: The choice has already been made . However I do believe ; I am on the best US team in the World ; and thats truely what counts here to me :)

[Tyrinon]

There! I voted! :p lol

[StormPC]

The topic is sort of rediculous. You could change your affiliation to "French" but if 75-80% of the members are Americans then in what way is it French?

Though humans constantly make this mistake, the map is not the territory.

[Stryfe]

The topic is sort of rediculous. You could change your affiliation to "French" but if 75-80% of the members are Americans then in what way is it French?

Though humans constantly make this mistake, the map is not the territory.Ummm, am I the only one who has no idea what you're talking about? What topic is rediculous?

[StormPC]

Ummm, am I the only one who has no idea what you're talking about? What topic is rediculous?

This thread has a topic, right? Did you read it? :shrug:

Affiliation???

You can change the affiliation to burritos if you wish. What will it buy you? Why change something when you don't know how it will affect your team? Obviously this thread failed in it's attempt to find out what the members want because ALMOST ALL OF THEM did not even find the topic worthy of a comment. They just don't care.

Change your affilation to burritos and I'll rejoin the team! :bang head

BTW: You misspelled Stirfry! :)

[Stryfe]

This thread has a topic, right? Did you read it? :shrug:Sorry, I had assumed you were talking about someone else's post in this thread as I didn't see how the topic of the thread could be considered rediculous.

Affiliation???

You can change the affiliation to burritos if you wish. What will it buy you? Why change something when you don't know how it will affect your team?From the point of view of the people who would like the affiliation changed it isn't about what it "buys" us. It's not about having/not having some competitive advantage over other teams. It's about accurately representing the nature of our team.

Obviously this thread failed in it's attempt to find out what the members want because ALMOST ALL OF THEM did not even find the topic worthy of a comment. They just don't care.You seem to be under the impression that every team member actually visits these forums. From what I've seen I'd guess that there's about 50-60 members who visit the forum semi-regularly. Given that most of them have voted on this thread.

Change your affilation to burritos and I'll rejoin the team!Would it also get you to stop thread crapping? Because that would almost be worth it. :p Really, anyone who's read this thread knows what your opinion on the topic is by now, there's no need to keep coming back and thinking of new ways to say the same thing over and over again.

[StormPC]

Are you sure? How about, because I find it entertaining. Not a good reason? Well what are your reasons for posting here? If it's to enlighten the other members I don't see it.

Ok, change the affiliation to burritos and I'll stop posting. :attn:

Just giving this thread a little bump. If I let it fall into obscurity (where it belongs) the other 4 members that may care about the affiliation will never get a chance to vote. :santa:

[Dk Jedi Allianc]

I could not care less what it says.. International or US...

I am here for the fun and the friends.

Heh just realized....I am a Danish guy on a US team (still!) but crunching with my mexican friend... :p

[Stryfe]

Well what are your reasons for posting here? If it's to enlighten the other members I don't see it.As the starter of the thread I've tried to keep the post on topic and constructive. It's been a challenge :rolleyes:

[Stryfe]

bump, since the poll is still open

[LandShark]

I've voted for International already, and would like more member to support/agree to this.

[Tyrinon]

I voted a long time ago...

[Dk Jedi Allianc]

OK. Did it. Voted International even tough I realloy don´t care.

[Hamm3r]

I voted a long time ago...

me 2.

[SunRedRX7]

Giving this a bump since its still an open poll, and its nearing the bottom of page 2.

[Hamm3r]

bump. No use of the pool if people do not see it.

[Careface]

I voted international, but I dont much mind.. Im gathering though as this poll is uber old that it wont get changed? ah well :) I'm just stoked I can finally wear a Top 100 badge :D just ticked over 100th place. woot! cant wait for the a64 to come in either :D

Careface*

[Stryfe]

How long is this poll open for anyway?
It's been almost three months now.

[sir_LOIN]

2/3 voted international, sounds good enough to me, time for Seti to be like the rest of all the teams!

[JigPu]

The poll dosen't close. Like TC said, "I'll make the adjustment when we arrive at a solid conclusion". 2/3 is probably solid (especially after so many months), but TC has the keys and may decide that it isn't quite enough (technically, we're 0.66% from a true 2/3 majority :D)

JigPu

[Stryfe]

Thought I'd bump this.
Is 65.71% good enough?

[btoups]

Sorry I joined this team to be part of a US team. If it goes international I may consider leaving.

[CRFIII]

You still only get one vote... jUSt like everyone else.

[slimm]

I say close it or I might leave :p

[OcX]

Sorry I joined this team to be part of a US team. If it goes international I may consider leaving.

Me too.

[skotti]

I say we ask seti for a new listing. EARTH. We are all sons or daughter of it and will return to it someday. And all we are doing is searching for a friend.
To the anti-foreigner out there, no one is without history of other countries and the language I am typing is only 5000 years old and has bounced from country/empire to country/empire. English-germanic-latin-greek-mesopotamia. Nations will use today could also too modern for the message. The message or signal must be over 12 year old and could easily from when we were roman, egyptian or earlier.

So my vote is "people of earth"

[heezer7]

I say we just forget about it. The thread was brought back up after being quiet for months. Most people seem to have posted saying they don't care. Everyone seemed to forget about it then and I suggest we do the same again. Its not a country, but a overclocking community.

(PS: I don't even remember how I voted and peronally don't care what we are called)

[Joe [SETI.USA]]

IF your team does decide to change their location to international... and IF there are members who ARE looking for a team that represents the US.... then you should consider joining team SETI.USA... we have the second highest RAC in the country (second only to OC and constantly rising)... we have a dedicated site... message board... and chat... we would love to have anyone who wants to join. :)

http://www.setiusa.net

[Hamm3r]

ufff my opinion is (from reading this thread from the start, dispite my vote for international) that if thats what it takes to preserve our common goal ( to be better than other teams I think ) then let it be US team. I have no problem with that dispite the fact that Im not from US. I joined this team because of the great people that are in this team, and in the end I don't care if its international or the US team. I think we lost too much people because of this already. :(

[skab]

My opinion also, we used to be fighting for 6th now we've got a good strong hold on 9th!!!! :bang head
:cry: "I think we lost too much people because of this already."

[Stryfe]

But the reason we've lost positions isn't that we've lost production, it's that our production hasn't grown as much as the other team's.

*EDIT: Could the reason our production hasn't grown as much is as a US team we don't have the same potential user base? My point is, you can point to our dropping position as an indication of either side of the coin.

[Alexhk]

Maybe I'm thinking about this the wrong way but I'm glad the team location has not changed yet. Even though up until a few days ago all my contribution has been to the Einstein team, which is international, I hope the seti team location stays United States. I'm not saying this because of some notion of national pride,( if I want to feel good about my country I'll just look at bonicstats.com and look at the country results) I'm saying it because it makes our team stand out. I think the more people that find their way over to this great community the better.

I know in the 4 years I've been coming here I've learned more than I ever did from the big hardware review sites. I say the more people that come here and ask "stupid" questions and actually get educated about the topic due to the fantastic people that frequent all parts of our forums the better. I see being the top team from a given country as facilitating this and thus if the choices are US or international I say keep it US but I would be open to changing it to a different country as long as we would be a #1 from it. I forget who mentioned Antarctica but if that was an option I'd so be for it ; )

[Sleepy_Steve]

Change it to international. We have to acknowledge the dedicated members we have whereever they may be. We wouldnt have any good stats to hold onto nor would we be able to build ourselves into an even better team without our members.

Given that we have a fair number guys not in the states, i sat sure why not move to international to give em equal credit in our accomplishments.

[Larry Quinn]

I voted, and I was going to vote International.

I guess I wanted to be as inclusive as possible..you know, in order to attract more users..

The more I have thought about this..the more I think that we should leave it as is...a USA team.

Now don't misunderstand...I haven't changed my mind about being inclusive..not at all!

The team has always been a USA team, yet we have members from all over the world!

We unite under the OVERCLOCKERS banner...and THAT is what our team is based on.

I don't think that my original thoughts on this have merit anymore.
Changing to international will NOT gain us more users. (My 2 cents)

And by changing from USA, we loose a bit of our identity.

Also...what's wrong with National Pride??? :shrug:

I don't think there is enough National pride as it is.

Just my thoughts....Not meant to flame.

Larry

[KenCo]

I voted, and I was going to vote International.

I guess I wanted to be as inclusive as possible..you know, in order to attract more users..

The more I have thought about this..the more I think that we should leave it as is...a USA team.

Now don't misunderstand...I haven't changed my mind about being inclusive..not at all!

The team has always been a USA team, yet we have members from all over the world!

We unite under the OVERCLOCKERS banner...and THAT is what our team is based on.

I don't think that my original thoughts on this have merit anymore.
Changing to international will NOT gain us more users. (My 2 cents)

And by changing from USA, we loose a bit of our identity.

Also...what's wrong with National Pride??? :shrug:

I don't think there is enough National pride as it is.

Just my thoughts....Not meant to flame.

Larry


I couldn't have said it better.

The one thing I would add that I don't think I've seen mentioned is that many of our "international" members are actually US members crunching under the banner of another country. And that's fine, because like Larry said "We unite under the OVERCLOCKERS banner...and THAT is what our team is based on."

[sir_LOIN]

Well then if we're all under the Overclockers banner, that means that it's represents no specific country, but the whole world...

International is still my vote!

[skab]

You're not crunching seti though:
sir_LOIN
Hosts 1 - 11
Sorted on Total credit
Total number of hosts: 11



Pos.

CPU
#
CPU
Operating
System
Total
credit
Credit
/day
Credit
/week
Credit
/month
Average
credit
Over
take

Options

1 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz 1(2) Microsoft Windows XP 56,658 Not active -
2 Intel 698MHz 1 Microsoft Windows XP 38,816 Not active -
3 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 2800+ 1 Microsoft Windows XP 26,771 Not active -
4 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2500+ 1 Microsoft Windows XP 15,715 Not active -
5 Mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1500+ 1 Microsoft Windows XP 13,230 Not active -
6 mobile AMD Duron(tm) 4 1 Microsoft Windows XP 12,097 Not active -
7 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Mobile CPU 1.70GHz 1 Microsoft Windows XP 9,020 Not active -
8 Intelx86 Family 6 Model 5 Stepping 2 350MHz 1 Microsoft Windows 2000 7,492 Not active -
9 mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP-M 1400+ 1 Microsoft Windows XP 5,533 Not active -
10 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2500+ 1 Microsoft Windows XP 2,136 Not active -
11 AMD-K6(tm) 3D processor 1 Microsoft Windows 2000 1,357 Not active -

Pos.
CPU
#
CPU
Operating
System
Total
credit
Credit
/day
Credit
/week
Credit
/month
Average
credit
Over
take
Options

[sir_LOIN]

So what, I've crunched 200000 Seti credits, now I'm crunching for other Overclockers.com Boinc teams, I might eventually crunch for Seti again... So your point is?

[Magicky]

I used to do a LOT of IRCing back in the day, and have always thought of the people who communicate via the Internet as the first global community. As virtual entities we are meshed in a way that transcends all the physical, political, and cultural boundaries.

That said, as a team we are members of an effort that bases it’s output through Overclockers.com and to me it makes no nervermind as to our regional designation.

I’ve crunched for SETI for years (and do wish the Classical stats reflected that) and feel the effort to reach for extraterrestrial communication is the goal, not really where I stand in relationship to others. I’m proud to be a part of the team and will abide by what the consensus is; USA or International we’re still #1 ;)

[skab]

"So your point is?"
You have been one of the people who have been the most admant about switching our affiliation, yet you've stooped contribiting to the cause so to speak as we're droppinbg in the standings steadily.
We have lost crunchers over this issue wether to other teams or just other projects is immaterial from the point standings and IMO if your not crunching SETI then your vote should'nt count for SETI.
Being that the affiliation at this point is USA and we are a democracy when the final tally is in and the decision is made one way or the other then it'll be whatever it is. I still think that the only votes that should count are those of "active SETI crunchers".
Or else if it's decided that this should be a FORUMS issue then this post would need to be moved to the a different section and the issue should include all forum teams.

[sir_LOIN]

Don't blame this all on this issue, I'm sure that the people that left had their own reasons whatever they may be. Now you say that this is a democracy, fine by me, 2/3 of the people voted international some time ago, now why haven't we changed?

I was still crunching a little for Seti when this vote started but this is irrelevant. Since we're all crunching for the overclockers.com team, I believe every member of this team has the right to vote. The old seti was a one project deal, but ever since boinc started, it's multi-project, people come and go between projects and that's fine too because in the end, all the credits go to the overclockers.com team! To me, the most important stat is the overall boinc total, and at this we're team #8 in the world, not to bad at all.

To say that only active Seti crunchers should be allowed to vote goes against all what being in a team stands for. Try to see past your own nose, not everybody wants to crunch exclusively for seti, there's plenty of cool boinc projects out there. And like I said, at the end of the day, all these different boinc project credits go to the overclokers.com team and that's what matters most.

[skab]

Try to have a reaonable discussion without pointed insults and maybe this issue could be resolved in the near future :clap:
All the other BOINC projects are international affiliated, even under the main BOINC header it is an international affiliation.
I realize that there are people out there who consider BOINC to over-ride SETI, I'm not one of these and therefore feel as I've stated before.
Not an "active" cruncher in SETI, should not have a vote in the team affiliation.
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/ as stated on the main BOINC page, none of the other BOINC projects are related to SETI other than they use the BOINC platform for distributed computing. I don't think the people who are folding should realy have a vote in this issue either unless were going to start requiring all overclockers teams to this!

[sir_LOIN]

Perhaps a simple Harry Potter analogy could make it easier to understand... Boinc is like Hogwarts, and in this school there's different houses like Gryffindor, Slytherin etc, now these are like the different boinc projects, there's competition between these houses but in the end, everyone takes a part and fights for Hogwarts. Much like Seti, Einstein, LHC and all the other projects, the credits are added to the overclockers.com boinc grand total...

I didn't say that anybody should be allowed to vote, I however believe that any overclockers.com boinc team member should be allowed since we're all crunching for the same team in the end. Not allowing them to vote would be like only allowing medical personnel to vote for a country's law on hospitals for example wich is completely ridiculous.

And as you say, every other single overclockers.com boinc project is international so I don't see why Seti should be different.

[Larry Quinn]

Interesting points....

You know, I never considered myself a Member of the Overclockers.com BOINC team !
Never even crossed my mind.

I have always thought of being a member of the Overclockers.com SETI Team.

BOINC just happened to be the new "Tool" that we used to rack up points.

Something "New" for me to think about..

But the next question begs to be asked.

If there is a BOINC team, Why is there no Forum?
All I see for Overclockers.com teams are

Folding
Seti
3DMark

Looks to me like 3 Teams.

Now I'm not trying to play stupid, Nor am I trying to torque anyone off.
I know there are other projects that use BOINC...but as far as TEAMS I only see 3. Hmmmmmmm...




I agree that it's hard to argue that you should have a vote on the SETI Team being International or American if your not an active member of the team.

For instance, I would never presume to have a vote on what the Folding team wants to do since I am not, nor ever have been a member.

It's the BOINC issue that throws me...

It blurs the line between Teams.

Do I consider myself a BOINC team member, or a SETI AT HOME member?

For me it's simple, I'm a one project guy...All SETI..ALL OF THE TIME!

I do have some things to think about....but still prefer that the team remains an American Team.

Larry

[skab]

Quote: "For me it's simple, I'm a one project guy...All SETI..ALL OF THE TIME!"
:clap:
:eek: Unfortunately this is no longer considered 'a good thing' around here lately :rolleyes:

[sir_LOIN]

My point is that with Boinc we're part of a bigger whole, it's not just about a single project anymore. Being Seti all the time is not a problem at all, because all these credits in the end go to the overclockers.com grand total. My problem is the seti only attitude as if only that project matters here and the rest doesn't...

If there is a BOINC team, Why is there no Forum?

Well that a very good question we did a poll on this some time ago. The admins seem to have chosen status quo or the first option, but I'll restart the debate because now that we officially know that the old seti will die soon I think we definitely need to change the forum name. Boinc as forum name seems appropriate to me since it's general and it includes all the overclockers.com team projects...

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=373714&highlight=poll

I'll bump it...

[Larry Quinn]

Good idea....

Maybe the addition of a BOINC forum with sub forums for each project.

General BOINC posts placed in the "Main" Boinc Forum, and project specific discussion under it's appropriate Sub Forum.

Am I Mistaken, or is folding still it's own project? (I.E. Does not run under BOINC)?

Larry

P.S. I hope I'm not giving the impression that I'm trying to marginalize the other Projects?!?!

I KNOW they are excellent projects, and a TON of people believe in the work they are doing.

I can only speak for myself when I say my loyalties are to the SETI Project (Team) First!

If my work helps the BOINC Standings for our team.... So much the better!

[sir_LOIN]

Of course you help Larry, whatever Boinc project we crunch for, all the credits add up to overclockers.com grand total... It's a fact that we need to get used to because there's new boinc projects coming on all the time so whether we want to or not, it's a multiproject thing. As for folding, it's only a matter of time before they also have a boinc project since they've had the beta for some time now. http://fah-boinc.stanford.edu/

[KenCo]

My point is that with Boinc we're part of a bigger whole, it's not just about a single project anymore.


For me being part of a bigger whole is merely a necessary evil. I dislike BOINC and would much prefer SETI was still a stand alone project. For me it IS about a single project. I only wish to participate in SETI and have no interest and no stake in any other BOINC project. And in my opinion participating in another BOINC project does not automatically give a person a right to vote in a Overclockers.com SETI Team poll.

[Larry Quinn]

Ahhh...another good point...and I pretty much feel the same..

Boinc is merely the TOOL ...SETI is the Project.....and the TEAM is based on the project not the Tool!

Like I said..I'm glad my points help the BOINC stats of Overclockers.com..but that's not the thrust of what I'm doing.


Devil's advocate for a moment....

Say I only work on BURP...yet I would like SETI to change it's affiliation from USA to International.

I'm not working on SETI...thus Not a member of the team...should I have a "Vote"?

I say "No"..I know some may not agree...but entertain me for a moment.

Take it a step further.....since I can't vote ...I decide to add SETI to my BOINC on one computer.
I upload a single W/U for Seti...and join the overclockers.com seti team..........I am now a member, and I'm ACTIVE.
Do I have a "Vote" now???

Well the simple answer is YES...you should now be listed on the team stats page..thus your a member..thus you have a VOTE.

Ok..I get a vote..I vote that I want things around here to CHANGE.

After the voting ends I simply..stop working on SETI, I just go back to BURP.

Now what?????

Does the vote still "Count"?

How does one track this to insure the validity of the "Vote" itself?? :shrug:


Just trying to make heads or tails of the situation...and now my head hurts...

Please join me for a :beer:

You Too Sir_LION......Looking at your Avitar...I just hope to GOD your one of the ones that gets "Friendly" after a few.

If your a "Mean Drunk" it's Dr. Pepper or Coca Cola...I'm not taking ANY CHANCES!!!!! :santa:

Larry

[KenCo]

Actually the vote issue is a moot point since anyone can vote in this poll even if they do not do any distributed computing project at all and they are merely voting out of an anti-USA sentiment. That's why this poll should not in any way determine the team affiliation no matter what the number becomes.

And thanks, I think I will join you in that drink. Egg Nog and Cognac for me. :)

[Larry Quinn]

MMMmmmmm Eggnog and Cognac.... .

Larry

[skab]

Ahh, but this is the "SETI" Team, there's a lot of us that don't like the idea of someone else telling us that "they've" decided that we are'nt all about SETI anymore.
Nobody asked me if I wanted to give up being all about SETI, which I don't and I realy resent anyone trying to force me to change.
Just because thier are other projects out there that Berkeley is running under boinc that should not neccessarily force a change in my choice of what I want to do with my computers. I paid for everything I built with my own money and will do what "I" want with it, which is SETI, and only SETI, and always SETI!!!!
" the seti only attitude as if only that project matters here and the rest doesn't..."
Yea, my daughter says it's muleishness, my boss says I can be damn adament, my crew and bro's use the other 'a' word. Have to admit that you know where I stand though.

[Stryfe]

Actually the vote issue is a moot point since anyone can vote in this poll even if they do not do any distributed computing project at all and they are merely voting out of an anti-USA sentiment. That's why this poll should not in any way determine the team affiliation no matter what the number becomes.
How would you suggest we ever determine the wishes of our team regarding any issue then? Are you suggesting this team isn't a democracy but a dictatorship?
Although you do make a valid point, it's not as if there's hundreds of votes on this suggesting that multitudes of outsiders are wandering in and voting.

...they are merely voting out of an anti-USA sentiment. In the future when making a point about the validity of a poll or discussion you might want to try not to allow your bias to show. The outsiders you're proposing are voting on this poll could be voting out of anti-USA sentiment but they could also be voting out of pro-USA sentiment.

[KenCo]

How would you suggest we ever determine the wishes of our team regarding any issue then? Are you suggesting this team isn't a democracy but a dictatorship?


I suggested nothing of the sort. Even in a democracy outsiders aren't allowed to participate in elections. How can a poll open to anyone who want's to respond to it - whether they're on our team or not - serve our team's best interest.


Although you do make a valid point, it's not as if there's hundreds of votes on this suggesting that multitudes of outsiders are wandering in and voting.


No, but there could be dozens for all we know. And the fact is, it seems there are only two people who are obsessed with making this change happen.


In the future when making a point about the validity of a poll or discussion you might want to try not to allow your bias to show. The outsiders you're proposing are voting on this poll could be voting out of anti-USA sentiment but they could also be voting out of pro-USA sentiment.

In the future you might not want to take quotes out of context. I believe a more accurate quote would have been "even if... they are merely voting out of anti-USA sentiment." And I hardly think you are in a position to be preaching about letting one's bias show.

[Sleepy_Steve]

No offence but i just plain dont like Canada... that is all.


Blame Canada



The point I'm making here is that this thread is naturaly going to generate strong nationalist feelings in the people that read and vote on it. Weather its people wanting to have thier own nation represented, or they wish to dis associate themselves from the US is not the issue here, and the motivation for thier choice and oppinion does not matter. The people voting are the OC Forums members, and as the OCforums team, we represent them and should listen to thier oppinions.

As for using canada...thats only cause i had to listen to a rant from some canuk recently about the slow downturn of voter turnout from the mid 60's to present... Frankly i was offended. Please dont complain about my political system - Thats for me to do. Ass.

Ok, ending rant, just ignore the second paragraph if you happen to be from Canada.

[Stryfe]

I suggested nothing of the sort. Even in a democracy outsiders aren't allowed to participate in elections. How can a poll open to anyone who want's to respond to it - whether they're on our team or not - serve our team's best interest.I understand that. I should have left that democracy/dictatorship line out. You didn't answer my question though. How do you suggest we ever determine the wishes of this team regarding any issue if we can't use votes??


No, but there could be dozens for all we know. And the fact is, it seems there are only two people who are obsessed with making this change happen.
I'm not sure who you're refering to nor does it matter. The fact is that many people have supported both sides of this discussion, but there are undeniably more supporting one side than the other.


In the future you might not want to take quotes out of context. I believe a more accurate quote would have been "even if... they are merely voting out of anti-USA sentiment." And I hardly think you are in a position to be preaching about letting one's bias show.After rereading your post I agree that the way I chose to display that quote does put it out of context. Still it would have been better to say something more along the lines of "they are merely voting out of anti/pro-USA sentiment"

As the person who started this thread and requested the poll I've tried to remain as objective about this as possible and allow the other team members to do the debating. Looking back through this thread I can't find one post where I've made an arguement for any one side. I have offered a rebuttal to some points but the rebuttals have been neutral in nature.

[Stryfe]

As for using canada...thats only cause i had to listen to a rant from some canuk recently about the slow downturn of voter turnout from the mid 60's to present... Frankly i was offended. Please dont complain about my political system - Thats for me to do. Ass.
Whoever was ranting obviously hasn't been paying attention to politics at home. Voter turn out has been on the decline in Canada for at least the last couple decades.

[TC]

Gents this is getting way out of hand. Take a step back and think before you post anything else in this thread.

[Larry Quinn]

You know..something that COULD get into a VERY heated debate..really hasn't...

Stryfe, Kenco, SIr_Lion..ect...ect....EVERYONE ALMOST WITHOUT EXCEPTION, has done a really great job explaining their views and stance.

I re-read a lot of the above posts..and can say that I see a lot of thought going into these posts..

You gotta admit..this topic could have seen the discussion sink to a really LOW level..but it hasn't.... Cooler heads seem to prevail throughout!

Sure, at times it appeared to be getting ready to turn into a shouting match..but it hasn't..and that alone speaks VOLUMES!


I Defy anyone to find another site..where people disagree so Agreeably!

It must be the fact that we really are a TEAM...
Our commonality comes first..our differences last!


Everyone here has an Opinion on the subject...and eventually we will come some form of agreement on the status of the team.

Some will not like the decision..and some will.
Hopefully when everything washes out..the Majority of the team will be happy..and the rest will have to come to grips with the decision.

Or if they simply can't live with the decision, they will persue other teams or other projects that reflect their feelings on the subject.

I hope these will be few and far between..because as I said before.."We unite under the Overclockers Banner".

Way to disagree!!! Above Board!!!

Crunch on.. (Now that we can again get work!)

Larry
:cool:

[TC]

I see there are roughly twice as many votes for International, thus I'm changing it to that. Case closed.

[Enkidu]

Thanks TC - making a decision that is tough no matter what you decide is not a fun task! We live in a world of grey, there are rarely black and white issues where one choice pleases everyone.

Thanks also to everyone for voting and for communicating your thoughts and concerns - I think it is fair to say this issue has been well vetted.

Now that the decision has been made - let's get back on target and focus on uniting under the Overclockers team banner that we all respect - time to kick some major butt! I for one have a new toy I'll be deploying over my upcoming winter holidays - more info soon :)

Enk

[KenCo]

When 46 people, likely not even all from this team, can speak for over two thousand, it's time for me to move on. So not without some sadness I have left Overclockers.com and joined Team SETI.USA.

[heezer7]

When 46 people, likely not even all from this team, can speak for over two thousand, it's time for me to move on. So not without some sadness I have left Overclockers.com and joined Team SETI.USA.

I am sorry you feel this way. I wish you luck on your new team and you will be welcome back here anytime.

[skab]

Appears there are going to be some openings in the top 10! I'ld like to add the disappointment I feel for the small percentage who even bothered to vote.

"When 46 people, likely not even all from this team, can speak for over two thousand, it's time for me to move on. So not without some sadness I have left Overclockers.com and joined Team SETI.USA."

[Larry Quinn]

When 46 people, likely not even all from this team, can speak for over two thousand, it's time for me to move on. So not without some sadness I have left Overclockers.com and joined Team SETI.USA.


Although I understand the decision that was made, I do agree with what KenCo has said, and have also taken the same course of action.

Larry

[TC]

When 46 people, likely not even all from this team, can speak for over two thousand, it's time for me to move on. So not without some sadness I have left Overclockers.com and joined Team SETI.USA.You know it's not that 46 people spoke for the whole team. The people that didn't vote either chose not to, didn't care, or are not even aware of this vote because they don't frequent the forums. So for them you can say essentially they gave up their vote by not participating.

As for your decision to move on, I hate to see that, but I guess it shows that some people are more concerned about the country affiliation than the organization the team is based on. I'm here because I like overclocking.

[KenCo]

I like overclocking too, and I will continue to overclock my computers and overclockers.com will continue to be one of my favorite sites. But yes, I must admit that my affiliation with my country does outweigh my affiliation with a web site.

At any rate I know it was a tough decision TC and I know it was one you didn't make lightly. I certainly do leave with no hard feelings.

[Stryfe]

When 46 people, likely not even all from this team, can speak for over two thousand, it's time for me to move on. So not without some sadness I have left Overclockers.com and joined Team SETI.USA.Of those 2000 only around 200 are active. 72 people voted in total. If we assume that the people who voted are active crunchers than about 1/3rd of active crunchers voted. Undoubtedly not everyone who voted is an active cruncher so it may be more like 1/4 of active crunchers voted. As TC said, the others either chose not to vote or aren't active forum members and don't know this vote exists.

I'm really sad to see people leave over this. That certainly was never my intention. I wish those who are leaving the best of luck with your new teams. I'd be happy to see any of you come back should you find your new team isn't the fit you're looking for.

Now that the servers are returning to normal we should really get a race going ASAP to get the positivity and excitement flowing around here again.

[eaglescouter]

Too bad that we were not able to cast one vote per seti workunit/cs. Thus allowing those with more committed assets to carry greater weight.

[Stryfe]

Too bad that we were not able to cast one vote per seti workunit/cs. Thus allowing those with more committed assets to carry greater weight.But that would be like giving people votes in an election based on their income.

[skab]

"So for them you can say essentially they gave up their vote by not participating."
That's the saddest part of this whole thing, IMHO. Between this and the what I see as a change in emphasis towards other BOINC projects and away from SETI which is my reason for being on the team I think I'll be moving on also.
"I'm here because I like overclocking."
I agree here and I plan on continuing to be on the forums, just not this particular team.

[sir_LOIN]

Good decision TC, now we can move on as a team.

[Alexhk]

As for your decision to move on, I hate to see that, but I guess it shows that some people are more concerned about the country affiliation than the organization the team is based on. I'm here because I like overclocking.

Is there a reason you felt it necessary to say that? Maybe I'm just in a daze after finishing finals but it seems like your implying that their decision to change teams somehow means they don't care about this community. Last time I checked crunching for overclockers wasn't a requisite to being a great member of the ocforums and there are in fact many good people here who don't crunch for us ( feel free to join in of course .) I'm just saying I actually see Larry, Skab, and Kenco in other areas of the forums and I don't even think I need to say I hope I'll see them around because I'm sure I will. Just because they aren't crunching for the oc team doesn't make them lesser members of our community.

That said if you three think about it, no matter what team you crunch for your credits still go to the US. Just check bonicstats or any stats page that has an option to list stats by country. You can still crunch for us and your credits are still counted towards the country you want. Sure maybe they don't explicitly go to a US team but they still count, just something to think about. See ya around guys.

[TC]

Maybe I'm in a daze because my mother just died from cancer - but it seems like a perfectly clear observation to me. They decided to leave the team because of the change from US to International. What more can you say - that meant more to them than the principals upon which the team is based. I'm in no way knocking them or anything else they've done for the forums - it's purely an observation about this turn of events.

[KenCo]

lol, the principle upon which the team is based is that we overclock our computers to achieve maximum performance. Sorry, just seemed funny.

Very sorry to hear about your loss TC. That's a tough one.

[TC]

Well you know what I mean. The way I see it (and this is just my opinion of course) we join teams because they represent something we can relate to and/or are interested in. In our case overclocking. If you simply want to show your allegiance to a country then join a country branded team, like Team USA. I'm not taking a crack at anyone that wanted to leave by any means, it just seems to me that you guys were more interested in the country than what the team motto is all about.

[Larry Quinn]

No "Simply" about it TC....This was a decision that I did NOT come to lightly!

I've been with the OC Seti team since the first day I crunched a W/U. So I DID/Do Feel a lot of loyalty to the team!

I could see from where the "Push" to change FROM a USA team Came.

And everytime I had to ask myself What were the motivations I saw.

Now that the desision was final ( and I am NOT one to whine about loosing..you had to make a call ...and you did..KUDOS)

But almost immediately after..you could read certain posts where the same individuals that pushed the issue admitted that "They were sick and tired of searching for aliens" and had moved to other projects.

Now you tell me, Honestly, does this sound like someone that had the SETI TEAM in mind at all???

Anyway...personally I did what I felt I had to do..

You made the call..and you did what you had to do...I respect that..and have no hard feelings about it at all.

Larry

P.S. A truly Heartfelt Condolence on the passing of your Mother. You seem to be holding up better than I could ever hope!

[skab]

TC, very sorry to here about your mother. This issue is probably not what you need to be dealing with at this time either.

The decision for me to change teams was based more on what I percieve to be a shift towards BOINC vice SETI. Added to this feeling was this decision to go international which was pushed by (IMO) several of the same members that are the driving force behind the move towards BOINC becoming the main priority of this team just made of tough decision a little easier.
Country affialiation is as good a reason as any other to join a team but with the main emphasis of SETI, then all the more reason for me.

[SunRedRX7]

Well good luck finding a team thats sticking to "SETI, only SETI, always SETI!!!!" because BOINC is here and multi project is the way its going everywhere

http://stats.kwsn.net/teams.php?proj=all

Team USA's SETI RAC (http://stats.kwsn.net/tgraphs.php?proj=all&teamid=8407) is 26% of their total BOINC RAC in case anyone wondered.

[sir_LOIN]

LOL I never bothered to check!

[Vento1]

TC, very sorry to here about your loss.

I dont have much time of late to visit this forum and i am very sad to see people leave because of a name change, I am British and very proud to be so, i used to crunch for a British team but changed to OC.com because of the people here, it maters not the country the team crunch for, but the fact that we choose to do this together for Overclockers.com.
I do think with all the different projects under the bionc banner that we should have seperate places to post for your project of choice lets make the seti part of this forum for seti.

[KenCo]

I didn't make the decision lightly either. But I felt that there was not enough consensus to make this change. Only 44 people have posted in this thread. Since I had a little time I went through every post (again) and made note of each poster position. For some I had to make a judgement call but I think this is very nearly accurate. 23 posters were for the change to international, 16 against, 2 didn't care (and I had no feel for their leaning), and 3 gave no indication at all. Most posters didn't seem to have a stong opinion and seemed happy to go either way.

The percentages come out similar to the poll. But I don't think 23 opinions is enough to have based this change on. 4 of those 23 are inactive and 3 others I don't see on the stats page (could crunch under another name).

I value every member of whatever team I'm on and have equal respect for them no matter where they are. But for me it is important to be affiliated with a US team.

Well good luck finding a team thats sticking to "SETI, only SETI, always SETI!!!!" because BOINC is here and multi project is the way its going everywhere

http://stats.kwsn.net/teams.php?proj=all

Team USA's SETI RAC is 26% of their total BOINC RAC in case anyone wondered.

That's all very nice, but we joined SETI.USA and SETI.USA is 81.5 percent SETI@home for total credit and 89.6 percent SETI@home for RAC.

http://stats.kwsn.net/tgraphs.php?proj=all&teamid=21389


EDIT:

One last little tidbit. Not that any of this matters, but I thought it was interesting. Of the 19 (active) members who posted with a leaning to change to international, only 6 had a non-USA location listed. Of those 6 non-USA members, 4 of them explicitly indicated that it was not important to them either way. That leaves only 2 active non-US members who cared about this change.

[Larry Quinn]

Well good luck finding a team thats sticking to "SETI, only SETI, always SETI!!!!" because BOINC is here and multi project is the way its going everywhere

http://stats.kwsn.net/teams.php?proj=all

Team USA's SETI RAC (http://stats.kwsn.net/tgraphs.php?proj=all&teamid=8407) is 26% of their total BOINC RAC in case anyone wondered.


Look..Rationalize it any way you want.....But Kenco has the correct numbers.

Who are you trying to convince?
Your happy where you are...I'm happy for you.

I can see no justification in your attempt to belittle other people's decisions.

Larry

T/C...this is going nowhere..maybe it's time to lock this post for good or delete it completely.
You decision has been made, and there is no reason to carry on the discussion anymore.

From this point all that's left, if we continue, will be hurt feelings and animosity.
Let's all just move on.

[sir_LOIN]

Larry, apply what you just said to yourself! Rationalize it any way you want, but you lost! Now you can either accept it like a man and continue to crunch for overclockers.com or you can leave like you seem to have done. I can see no justification either in your attempts to belittle other people's decisions. You left the team, now why the heck are you still debating this in here, the change has been made. Move on!



I just couldn't help laughing at the irony : If we apply your standards stated earlier, than you have no say at all in this manner anymore since you forfeited your vote when you left the team! lol

[Larry Quinn]

See..I knew this was going to start...Now look who is insulting my Manhood.

Way to Rise above. :thup:

I will miss your "Charming" Personality.

Yes, My View wasn't shared and the decision was made to change...I didn't "Loose" anything.

Unlike the respect that you LOST with that above post.
Well...actually you didn't loose it...You GAVE it away freely.



To Everyone else...

Crunch On!!!!!
Larry

Unsubscribing from the thread now..since I'm obviously Not Welcome...

[KenCo]

Larry, apply what you just said to yourself! Rationalize it any way you want, but you lost! Now you can either accept it like a man and continue to crunch for overclockers.com or you can leave like you seem to have done.


Actually, the only real looser was the overclockers.com SETI Team, thanks in no small part to you sir_LOIN.

Today for the first time ever SETI.USA has surpassed Overclockers.com SETI Team in daily RAC.

[Enkidu]

T/C...this is going nowhere..maybe it's time to lock this post for good or delete it completely.
You decision has been made, and there is no reason to carry on the discussion anymore.

From this point all that's left, if we continue, will be hurt feelings and animosity.
Let's all just move on.

I couldn't agree more.

Good luck with your new teams to those who left - good luck to those who stayed behind - I hold no hard feelings at all in either direction.

[eaglescouter]

This has been the most destructive thread that I have seen on the SETI forum.

We all joined the team the way it was, now this change is causing distress and departures.

This is how wars are begun, fighting over flags and other irrelevant items. This site and this team is about SETI and Overclocking.

I personally regret that this topic was ever discussed, and I am wondering how many more we will loose if somebody brings up the SETI vs BOINC as the forum category title.......... Just leave things alone, dont tinker with a working team.

[SunRedRX7]

That's all very nice, but we joined SETI.USA and SETI.USA is 81.5 percent SETI@home for total credit and 89.6 percent SETI@home for RAC.

http://stats.kwsn.net/tgraphs.php?proj=all&teamid=21389


Sorry about that, I just looked at the first page with the top 50 teams thinking it would be one of the USA teams on there.

[KenCo]

One final thought.

Pro USA sentiment is not the same as anti-international sentiment.

You can still be a good international citizen and yet support a US team. For anyone who wants to contribute to the Number One USA team and (in my opinion) the team most likely to replace SETI.Germany as the number one team in the world... consider joining us at SETI.USA!

Look forward to having you as a team-mate at SETI.USA!

Ken

[TC]

Where are the F'ing mods when you need one... I requested this thread be closed yesterday.

[Mictlan]

I'm starting to get tired of this thread. I won't voice my opinions about any kind of national zeal in this forum as is against the rules, but as Tim has said I'll report thios thread and ask for the lock of it.

Also more propaganda about the USA SETI team is not encouraged in this place. This is OC.com forum, we've been very tolerant to any other team members (at one time we have had visits fom AMDmb.com, Phoenix Rising, SETI.Germany, etc) in the past, and with respect and freedom of speech have open our arms to them.

We haven't in no way (apart form a friendly joke here and there) mentioned that we do a masive propaganda of any team, based in hardware preference, nationalilty or credo. As said in the forums elsewhere, we accept all kind of opinion as long as they are kind and non-offensive.

The issue here is not if this team is in the mayority composed of USA-citizens, USA-immigrants, USa-lovers, the opposite of any of the before mentioned, or Mars-citizens. We were just asking about the smallest of details in one of the stats of the team rooster. I won't voice my opinion about this, but I would gladly remind you all that this is a poll , and so far I know, when you ask the people, what comes as the opinon most voice over is considered the opion of the mayority....that's what democracy is all about.

Anyway, people please remind that this is a community, we should be open to new ideas, and the main point is having fun.

[eaglescouter]

Lock requested.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Closed by request.

[JigPu]

Firstly, let me apologize for posting in a locked thread. It's a major taboo here, and I really hate to do it. However, I feel that such a post is required on my part -- please forgive me for taking such action (or flame away at my PM box)

Allow me to apologize for my complete lack of action since this thread resurfaced. I have recievced two PMs in the last two days to close this thread, and action was really required earlier than that. I have been absent from the forums since the begining of December (personal issues) and so did not even noticed this thread until I checked my mail several minutes ago, finding a notice of new PMs. I am extrordinarily sorry that I have been absent from this, and wish I could have made several posts in the two weeks this thread has been up. All I can do now is post this apology for my inaction, and what I would have posted as the final post had Voodoo Rufus not had to step in.

Unfortunatly, my absence will continue for some additional time (I believe early January I can return to active duty). Voodoo Rufus has put in a request to be made an official mod of this section though, so I hope that my absence does not continue to be a serious problem.


To all of those who have left the team:
I'm sure you've all thought long and hard about your decision, and that no post by me or any other member would bring you back. I'm sad to see you guys leave this team, though hope that you find whatever you found lacking here in your new ones.


To everybody in general:
BOINC is bound to change things, and if you thought the past few years of waiting have been strenous to our team and it's sense of identity (are we a SETI team? are we a BOINC community? are we both? can we be both? should us and the folding team unite? do we want to be/have a general DC community?), the next few weeks may be worse as SETI classic finally gets shut down and the real changes begin. I'll hopefully be posting up a revised poll for what should happen as promised (after returning to active duty), and we may see more people leave us as our team might change to something that isn't what they originally came and joined us for. Conflict and opposing points of view are bound to appear, but that is just a sign of the change that is occuring. Regardless, I find something posted on the front page to be overridingly true:

"We are a team. We are a community. We are a fellowship made strong by mutual respect and shared dedication to the task of enriching all who come here. We are respectable, for we share our bounty. We will endure, for we continue to grow. We will continue to grow as long as those who come to us find what they need for their own betterment, and the betterment of those who follow after them."

JigPu