Dual-core thread

[stmok]

Attention Moderators : Please make this a sticky. Thank you.

I have created a Dual-core thread.
This covers both AMD and Intel CPUs. It goes into whether you need a new motherboard, what to look for in existing Socket 939 and 940 motherboards, etc.

It also includes info about future Pentium-M "Yonah" as well (since its gonna be dual-core).

The thread can be found here:
=> http://forums.techwatch.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=4375


Current Updates are listed below. Dates are based on AUSTRALIAN (SYDNEY) TIMEZONE. If you're in the USA, minus approximately 1 day.

________________________
Status : Active

Ver 0.5a : April 9th 2005
* Pentium-M "Yonah" prototype notebook demo'ed at Japan IDF April 7-8 and some details about it. See Question 14 and 15.

Ver 0.5 : April 9th 2005
* Added : K8T Master2-FAR WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SUPPORT DUAL-CORE.
And the Tyan Tiger K8W (S2875) looks doubtful. See Question 13.
* Changed and added red comment for Question 3

Ver 0.4 : April 8th 2005
* Added notes about possible release date of dual-core Opteron and Intel President announcing timeframe of Intel dual-core CPU release.

Ver 0.3 : April 5th 2005
* Added many Intel dual-core reviews

Ver 0.2 : April 4th 2005
* Added Iwill's official news that ALL their workstation and server motherboards fully support DUAL-CORE!
* Added info starting to appear that dual-core CPUs will come earlier than expected.

Ver 0.1 : April 1st 2005
* Laid down the initial post post from OCAU, made minor changes from original.
________________________

[stmok]

Update...

Ver 0.5c : April 11th 2005
* Added, Intel WILL respond to AMD planned release dates...See Question 11.

Ver 0.5b : April 11th 2005
* Added rumoured release date for desktop A64 dual-core AND Opteron 2xx series (2 CPU only version). See Question 11.
* Added what a BIOS update adds for Opteron motherboards to support dual-core. See Question 16.
* Added Part II of Anandtech dual-core article. See Question 12.

Link : http://forums.techwatch.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=4375

[stmok]

Update :

Ver 0.6 : April 14th 2005
* Add new review from Hong Kong. It compares Opteron single and dual-core. See Question 12.

Link : http://forums.techwatch.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=4375

[diehrd]

Would be nice to have the thread written and set up here and links for reference,,Not that it has to be that way buy that is how I have seen stickies usually made.

[stmok]

Yeah, I tried that, but none of the Moderators did anything. I'll be glad to rectify it if its turned into a Sticky.

In the meantime, another update.

Update...

Ver 0.7 : April 16th 2005
* Dual-core Athlon64 official name is revealed, but not officially confirmed. See Question 17
* AMD's CEO, Hector Ruiz, confirms April 21st IS Opteron's (dual-core) release date. See Question 11

Link : http://forums.techwatch.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=4375

[stmok]

Update...

Ver 0.9 : April 21st 2005
* Added TechReport's article (review) on dual-core Opteron. And a quick discussion on the results. See Question 20.

Link : http://forums.techwatch.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=4375


The TechReport article does compare dual-core vs single core (SMP) setups. It turns out, its more beneficial using dual-core. :)

[diehrd]

That would make sense asw there is les bus overhead on a dual core compaired to dual socketed 2cpu boards..

[stmok]

Ver 1.0 : April 22nd 2005
* Updated Question 12 with two previews of Opteron and "emulated" Athlon64 X2

I put Anandtech and TechReports's previews under the right FAQ.

Link : http://forums.techwatch.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=4375

I'll wait a few days for a whole pile of previews to come before updating to ver 1.1


From what I see, these are Pros and Cons.

A64/Opteron dual-core
Pro
* Good performance (doesn't take a huge performance hit when loaded in a multitasking scenario)
* Far better gaming performance than equivalent Intel dual-core CPUs.
* Lower Power Consumption than Pentium-D or XE (90W to 100W)
* "E-revision" CPUs. (SSE3, etc)
* Performs better than a pair of Opterons (Opteron 175 vs 2x Opteron 248)
* Works on virtually any current Socket 939/940 mobo that can support 90nm CPUs (BIOS update maybe required).

Con
* More expensive than Intel dual-core desktop CPUs. (according to Anandtech's list)
The Opteron ones are ridiculously priced...Who the hell thinks up these prices?


Pentium-D/XE
Pro
* Cheaper than A64 X2.
* Strong in applications that are optimised for it. (especially with Hyperthreading).

Con
* 100W more in power consumption under load. (compared to Opteron 175)
* Takes a higher performance hit under multitasking scenarios
* Need a new motherboard

[DaveB]

The Opteron ones are ridiculously priced...Who the hell thinks up these prices?
That's always been my problem with Opterons. I built low-level 240 and 242 Opteron duallies but at 1.4 GHz and 1.6 GHz, respectively, they didn't perform where I wanted them to be and you really couldn't OC them more than 5% to 10%. So I went to the very overclockable Xeons where you can get a 50% to 100% overclock with the right setup.

[stmok]

Ver 1.0a : April 22nd 2005
* added initial prices of Pentium-D and Athlon64 X2. See Question 21

Athlon64 X2
Dual 2.4GHz, 1Mb cache per core
US$1,001 => AUD$1,290.54
Dual 2.4GHz, 512Kb cache per core
US$803 => AUD$1,035.27
Dual 2.2GHz, 1Mb cache per core
US$581 => AUD$749.054
Dual 2.2GHz, 512Kb cache per core
US$537 => AUD$692.327

Pentium-D
Dual 3.2GHz, 1Mb cache per core
US$528 => AUD$680.724
Dual 3.0GHz, 1Mb cache per core
US$314 => AUD$404.821
Dual 2.8GHz, 1Mb cache per core
US$240 => AUD$309.420

Looks like you're more likely to repeat what you did with Xeons. :(

[stmok]

UPDATE...

Ver 1.1 : April 25th 2005
* added Mini-ITX mobo that supports Intel Dual-core CPUs. See Question 22.

This great for you Mini-ITX fans. ;)
Its small and it supports dual-core!

[veryhumid]

sweet info! I'm definitely going to be looking at one this summer, especially if ati's upcoming 950 will not support agp.

[>HyperlogiK<]

glowing review of opteron 875 (first AMD dually). http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_dual-core_opteron_875/

[stmok]

Update...

Ver 1.2 :
* update Question 10 with more realistic introduction roadmap of Socket M2

It is estimated Socket M2 will be introduced approx this time next year.

[DrSpanky]

ok..............


(2) What do I need?

=> For the AMD side, you need a Socket 939 motherboard. I've heard from many sources that the chipset doesn't matter. (So it can be from AMD, Nvidia, SiS, ULi, VIA or even ATi). The most important thing is to see if the motherboard's VRMs can handle it AND if the manufacturer of your motherboard (or the one you plan to buy) will receive a BIOS update.

For the Intel side, if you currently own a LGA775 socket motherboard, (based on current news at this time), you'll very likely have to fork out more money for another motherboard with a chipset that supports dual-core. I'm not sure if nForce4 for Intel CPUs will be a problem or not...In any case, you need a new motherboard.




am i right in saying that u only get intel mobo's with intels chipsets? so if im correct in saying that....nForce4 lolage to teh max. if im wrong i will crawl back into the hole in the ground i came from.

[stmok]

???

What I'm saying is that, if you want dual-core on the Intel side, you need to get a mobo with a chipset that is either Intel (945/955 series) or Nvidia (NF4)...But what I'm not sure about is, if NForce4 on the Intel platform is officially supporting dual-core. (we know it does on the AMD side).

We also aren't sure if current 915/925 chipsets support dual-core. Intel is not always the "good guy" and have lied in the past to make sales. eg : Tualatin CPUs don't work on PIII class mobos, you need a new mobo...BS!



May 9th 2005 updates.

Ver 1.4 :
* Added one review of Pentium Extreme Edition 840 from Tech Report. See Question 12, Intel side.
* Added two reviews of Athlon 64 X2. See Question 12, AMD side

[DrSpanky]

What im saying is it wouldn’t matter if nforce4 was compatible with intels cpus as intel only use intel chipset unlike amd. thus the whole thing about nforce4 on an intel mobo is erroneous

[Nico3k]

Will there be a dual-processor board out that will support dual cores anytimes soon?
I've been looking at quad setups, and this looks much more realistic.

EDIT: So I read some articles; it appears that the dual-core opterons will only go up to 2.2GHz, and the dual-core X2 won't run in a dual setup?
So now the question is, will there be any s939 dual socket boards that support running two X2's instead of only opterons? Perhaps a hacked BIOS or some kind of socket mod?

[stmok]

What im saying is it wouldn’t matter if nforce4 was compatible with intels cpus as intel only use intel chipset unlike amd. thus the whole thing about nforce4 on an intel mobo is erroneous

Ok. I'm still not quite sure what you're getting at. Its really up to the OEMs and enthusiasts to choose what brand of chipset they want in their systems.


Will there be a dual-processor board out that will support dual cores anytimes soon?
I've been looking at quad setups, and this looks much more realistic.

EDIT: So I read some articles; it appears that the dual-core opterons will only go up to 2.2GHz, and the dual-core X2 won't run in a dual setup?
So now the question is, will there be any s939 dual socket boards that support running two X2's instead of only opterons? Perhaps a hacked BIOS or some kind of socket mod?

(1) If you want a total of 4 cores for your system, you will need either a Tyan (nForce4 Pro) or Iwill Opteron mobo.

All of Iwill's current dual CPU Socket 940 mobos FULLY support dual-core Opterons. They have publically stated this...This includes their SFF dual CPU Opteron setup.

(2) Opterons have SMP ability, Athlon64 X2 don't. Buying a pair of A64 X2 and putting them in a dual CPU (Socket 940) mobo is NOT gonna work...I know you're trying to save money while trying to get 4 cores going. I like the idea, but the likelyhood of success is low. :)

(3) There isn't gonna be a dual Socket 939 mobo. (It's harsh, but that's the real world). If a mobo manufacturer did bring one to the market, (and they found a way to have a pair of A64 X2s working together), they'll sell like hotcakes...In addition to angering AMD. (Its something you do NOT want to do, if you want to maintain your business) :)

(4) Wait for quad-core CPUs?...They come in 2007.

You'll have to buy a new mobo using the Socket F (1207 pins), as all future Opterons (except Opteron 100 series) will be in this format.

[>HyperlogiK<]

What im saying is it wouldn’t matter if nforce4 was compatible with intels cpus as intel only use intel chipset unlike amd. thus the whole thing about nforce4 on an intel mobo is erroneous

What do you mean? SIS and VIA make intel chipsets and in the past so have Ali, Serverworks and probly a whole load of other manufacturers. And the talk of Pressies on an nforce 4 is not erroneous.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/28/review_gigabyte_nforce_intel/

[elec999]

" future Pentium-M "Yonah" as well (since its gonna be dual-core)."
Does this mean that Intel has a great chance to start off a P5 cpu line and beat off the Amd cpus, or there is no way at all. Anyone at all came accross a review site, that actually shows benchmarks for seti/folding benchmarks on dual core.
Thanks

[>HyperlogiK<]

not that I have seen, most of the reviews are for digital content creation and office stuff which isn't totally representative as few people will be buying dual core opteron machines to use just as word processors. They should kick ass for folding though, but more importantly we'll all be able to run 6 operating systems, 3 copies off Doom 3, play 18 CDs in winamp and watch a DVD all at the same time ;););)

[>HyperlogiK<]

(2) Opterons have SMP ability, Athlon64 X2 don't. Buying a pair of A64 X2 and putting them in a dual CPU (Socket 940) mobo is NOT gonna work...I know you're trying to save money while trying to get 4 cores going. I like the idea, but the likelyhood of success is low. :)

(3) There isn't gonna be a dual Socket 939 mobo. (It's harsh, but that's the real world). If a mobo manufacturer did bring one to the market, (and they found a way to have a pair of A64 X2s working together), they'll sell like hotcakes...In addition to angering AMD. (Its something you do NOT want to do, if you want to maintain your business) :)

They couldn't do it anyway, 939 chips have a totally different pinout to 940 and they dont have the extra hypertransport links. Someone would need to come out with a whole new very clever chipset to make it work, and it's not worth it because only a few geeks like us would buy it (all the buisinesses would keep buying from dell or hp, and most other folks would keep buying from pc world).

(4) Wait for quad-core CPUs?...They come in 2007.

Yay more inneficciency! and I'll be able to run even more applications while i get low framerates in Quake 4. Better hope we see very fast or very fat bandwidth memory and some very clever compilers.

[DrSpanky]

Ok i was wrong... i dont know where i got the impression that intel only let mobo manufactures use intel chipsets. maybe cause intel make chipsets for use with teh cpu, when amd dont.

anyway i will ahev to keep more up to date with wahts going on lolage

[>HyperlogiK<]

yeah, intel generally make the best mid to high end intel chipsets (at least since Granite Bay) so pretty much everybody on here (and most oc sites) with a P4 has an intel chipset board, the problem with the more budget SIS and VIA solutions is that if people want a budget solution they will probably go AMD instead. Also on the nforce 4 question the intel nforce 4 probably doesn't share much more than some of the southbridge and a brand name with the AMD one.

[Nico3k]

Ok. I'm still not quite sure what you're getting at. Its really up to the OEMs and enthusiasts to choose what brand of chipset they want in their systems.




(1) If you want a total of 4 cores for your system, you will need either a Tyan (nForce4 Pro) or Iwill Opteron mobo.

All of Iwill's current dual CPU Socket 940 mobos FULLY support dual-core Opterons. They have publically stated this...This includes their SFF dual CPU Opteron setup.

(2) Opterons have SMP ability, Athlon64 X2 don't. Buying a pair of A64 X2 and putting them in a dual CPU (Socket 940) mobo is NOT gonna work...I know you're trying to save money while trying to get 4 cores going. I like the idea, but the likelyhood of success is low. :)

(3) There isn't gonna be a dual Socket 939 mobo. (It's harsh, but that's the real world). If a mobo manufacturer did bring one to the market, (and they found a way to have a pair of A64 X2s working together), they'll sell like hotcakes...In addition to angering AMD. (Its something you do NOT want to do, if you want to maintain your business) :)

(4) Wait for quad-core CPUs?...They come in 2007.

You'll have to buy a new mobo using the Socket F (1207 pins), as all future Opterons (except Opteron 100 series) will be in this format.

Thanks so much for clearing this up. Makes perfect sense now.
I am ready to buy two 275's right now... just waiting for them to get released :)

[stmok]

Update :

Ver 1.5 : May 19th 2005
* Dual-core compatible mobo list added.
(See the 2nd post of that thread).

Link : http://forums.techwatch.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=4375


I got word that some US-based stores maybe getting in dual-core Opterons on the 28th May. They'll be in limited numbers.

[stmok]

Update :

Ver 1.5.6 :
* Added 8 more entries to Dual-core compatibility list.
( Thanks to Desti of http://planet64bit.de/blog )

Link : http://forums.techwatch.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=4375

A total of 17 entries have been added in the last 48hours.
(This is for Single-CPU desktop mobos)

PLEASE NOTE: There is a problem with VIA K8T890 chipset and A64 X2. I'm not sure if its fixable by BIOS update. Soltek and ASUS have not listed their K8T890 mobos as dual-core compatible. (Soltek initially did, but support was withdrawn a few hours later upon discovery of a problem).


UPDATE :

A VIA Chipset Does Not Support AMD Dual-Core Chips.
VIA Says K8T890 Incompatible with AMD Athlon 64 X2, Plans to Release New Revision
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/chipsets/display/20050603042038.html

You can scratch current mobos that are based on K8T890 chipset off the dual-core compatibility list.

[|-_-|]

I plan on getting teh new AMD 64 x2, but i'm still gonna cherish my K6-2!
But i'm still gonna wait for compatible motherboards, or atleast better ones since teh whole new dual core stuff seems too new. I dunno, i uber noob but i'm gonna try out teh dual core stuff.

[|-_-|]

woops sorry, didn't think it would be that big!

[stmok]

OK, some updates that have been made...(Most current is the first one)

Ver 1.5.10 :
* Added one entry to SFF in Dual-core compatible mobo list. See 2nd post.
See here : http://global.shuttle.com/ADVNews/NewsDetail.asp?CTID={A69AC49F-B90C-445E-A412-560BA5F2A03D}
(Thanks to Anarki (from OCAU forums) for pointing that out)

Ver 1.5.9 :
* Added new info about "Yonah" core, including prices for 1000 units. See 4th post.

Ver 1.5.8 :
* Added 6 entries to Dual-core compatibility list, including ASUS dual CPU Opteron motherboard. See 2nd post.
( Thanks to gto_pontiac (from OCAU forums) for pointing out AMD has A64 X2 compatible list. )

Ver 1.5.7 :
* Added 1 entry to Dual-core compatibility list. See 2nd post.
( Thanks to gto_pontiac (from OCAU forums) for pointing that out. )



Some have asked the reason for the dual-core compatible mobo list.

Reasons :

(1) As the VIA K8T890 chipset screwup demonstrates, not all chipsets support dual-core. Most do.

(2) Not all motherboards are 100% guaranteed to work with dual-core.

eg : Some Tyan mobos and one Shuttle SFF are known NOT to work with 100% stability. Meaning, when the manufacturer tested them, some worked, others didn't...The result? They will not label them as supporting dual-core (as they cannot guarantee 100% that every single mobo produced in that series will work). So, they will release a revised model to address the issue.

There is more to testing than simply plugging something in and turning it on. :)

(3) There is at least two mobos that will not work because of the onboard electricals.

In an effort to save money, and in turn offer a low cost mobo, some manufacturers will make mobos that are "under spec" electrical-wise (ie: Not in line with AMD guidelines and specifications). As a result, what you saved in your initial investment of the mobo will cost you when you cannot upgrade to dual-core.