Retail bh-5 is still available!

[Reefa_Madness]

OK, first of all...I'm not advocating that you buy this because its not cheap. For that same reason I did not post this in the Cyber Deals...because its not.

It is however, retail KHX PC3200 (non A) or in other words...genuine bh-5 with warranty.

I was just looking through ZZF's ram listing and saw the KHX 256 sticks...each for $83 which is outrageously high, but it is available. That is $333 for a gig folks (but it does include shipping)!

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80092-9

Just thought I would pass that along. If you really wanted virgin bh-5 and only wanted a couple of sticks for benchies, well...here they are.

edit:
Single 512MB sticks are available as well, for $120/stick. A steal when compared to the 256MB sticks. Not a whole lot more for genuine original bh-5 vs the newer stuff for just under $200.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80097-9

[crimedog]

better yet, the new g.skill "bh"
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-231-013&depa=1

[OC/ingmaddog]

That's pretty sweet. Good luck for those looking for BH-5. I still got mine:D.

[ccbl91]

how does tat gskill compare to LA and LE's?

[|3ourne]

LA and LE use TCCD memory chips , which can clock higher than the GH model but albeit at looser timings. The GH uses the new Winbond Bh5 die which can clock upto about 250 mhz on an avg with voltage and 2-2-2-5 as timings. The thing about BH5 is that they dont work with loose timings , so your stuck with giving them more voltage to clock higher . That being said , performance should be no less than smouldering at about DDR520 at 2-2-2-5 timings :D .

[ccbl91]

so if i wanna clock as with the GH as high as the LA n LE, i'll need 2 pump alot of volts rite?

[Overclocker550]

I am sticking with my tccd, I have only 2.7v and I want 1:1 for venice

[ccbl91]

wait but i thought bh-5's had the highest overclocking speeds, even higher than tccd

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

nope, tccd has gotten up to ddr800 speeds. it was crazy, some asian guy did it. bh-5 loves volts and tight timings and maxes out around 250-70 max with 2-2-2-5. tccd loves lower volts and looser timings and maxes out around 275-325 2.5-4-4-7.

[ccbl91]

hey the amd 64 3200 multiplier is 10 rite?
10X270(venice) 1:1 with bh-5 if tat was possible, WOW

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

yea it would be pretty good, but it would require loads of voltage on the mem, and even then youd need some pretty special bh-5 to do it.

[ccbl91]

y would it be special?
i thought bh-5's maxed out in the 250-280's

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

well, 270 is really high for bh-5. the highest ive ever seen on bh-5 with 2-2-2-5 timings was 294 i think, and that was with intense cooling,

[Reefa_Madness]

Of course, keep in mind that the typical bh-5 clocks we all are accustomed to are those from the XP and P4 days (circa late 2002 and into 2003). Those clocks of 250 were hit usually with 3.4v-3.5v on modded boards.

Today, a very tweak friendly DFI board with a unlocked A64 FX and up to 4v at its disposal seems to be able to get more out of any stick than was previously thought possible. You hear more and more of guys hitting 270 and beyond with bh-5 (of course, those are the guys that didn't sell theirs when the TCCD ram became popular).

I think that good bh-5, on todays rigs, will surpass anything that was achievable back in its glory days.

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

the 294 i saw was on a newer rig with a dfi board. they utilized like the whole 4v's and it was crazy! i was like 294! i wish i could get 220, ofcourse that was back when i had my buffalo b-line piece of crap ram.

[ccbl91]

so basically bh-5 is better if u want tighter timings but in return has slightly lower speeds
tccd has greater speed but looser timings

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

yea. tccd is good for boards that cant do like over 3vs max. most tccd likes 2.8 or 2.9 and will get 275 at 2.5-4-4-7 as a rule, some lower. not many higher. bh-5 is a voltage lover, like to get to 250 some sticks need only 3.2 some need 3.6 it all depends

[ccbl91]

is the gskill a bh-5 or a memory tat's bh-5 like?
n would the kingston b a better choice becuz it has heatsinks?

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

gskills usually tccd. it usually says tccd. heatspreaders usually just trap heat, so most take them off and put active cooling on their ram like fans with clips keeping them on.

[ccbl91]

so i would take like a 80mm n put it rite above the ram?
where would i place the clips tho?
i plan to get the lian li pc-v1000b

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

well, look for the thread here or in cooling or at [h]ardforums that is intitled ram fan clips, inspired by thermaltake. a 60mm fan is usually needed only. its really indepth. ill link you soon when i find it

[ccbl91]

thnx in advancce

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=350891&highlight=ram+fans i found the crap outta that thread! it took me forever though. it was in the cooling section here. its a pretty good setup for bh-5/utt rams.

[ccbl91]

is tat gskill bh-5?

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

yes i think it is, cause of its low latency and really high price. it appears to be on a bp pcb aswell.

[crimedog]

we don't call it bh-5 because bh-5 is old and out of production. however, for all intents and purposes it's bh-5 :) and yes it's on brainpower pcb which is a good thing.

if you're getting a lian-li V series case you don't need clips or anything for active ram cooling, you can just rest a fan on the divider. I have a 120mm over my bh-5. heatspreaders are useless for ram, and the ones included by manufacturers usually hurt heat transfer thanks to the frag tape they use.

[|3ourne]

Never heard of TCCD hitting DDR800 ever . Someone did put a memtest screenie but that was a bug in memtest with the DFI boards when it doesnt show that your actually running a divider. The highest TCCD I have seen till now is around DDR650 or so. Could you provide me with a link possibly since I would love to check that out.
Gaming performance , BH5 at about 270 mhz literally walks all over TCCD at DDR600 even though TCCD will have much more bandwidth. Its all about the timings for BH5 and UTT chips.
But running your ram at 3.6 V day in day out doesnt seem like a good 24/7 rig to me . For benching no doubt VX or BH5 would be the stuff to get but for daily use TCCD works out much better.

[ccbl91]

wat r dividerS?
o and i might switch my case to a thermaltake va4000 becuz of price

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

some asain guy over at xtreme systems got it up to ddr800 speeds,and was in windows. he had his cpu at like 7*400 and the ram was running sync. heres the link. its mad intense! http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56851

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

ps: if you read that guys sig, he got his bh-5 up to ddr600 speeds!!!

[Overclocker550]

If bh5 could go so high, howcome the highest bh5 or VX clocks ive seen in 3dmark is only 260-270? Macci himself had the best 3dmark stable bh5 at 262. I dont care what bh5 does if its not stable, a screenshot doesnt count, sorry. My friend's experience shows that more like 240 is what you typically expect from bh5/vx. I dont care for those anyway cause im limited to 2.7v on my mobo. when I go venice, im planning on getting 325MHz with tccd, id like to see any bh5 come close LOL

[dtc]

i got my ch-5 @ 260 stable 2 2 2 5 . needs 3.5v tho :) . i tried 270 but it was still getting errors in memtest @ 3.7 volts and i didn't want to push it with more since i only got a fan blowing on the ram and not the pwm chips :shrug: not bad for ram i thought would max at around 230

[deception``]

If bh5 could go so high, howcome the highest bh5 or VX clocks ive seen in 3dmark is only 260-270? Macci himself had the best 3dmark stable bh5 at 262. I dont care what bh5 does if its not stable, a screenshot doesnt count, sorry. My friend's experience shows that more like 240 is what you typically expect from bh5/vx. I dont care for those anyway cause im limited to 2.7v on my mobo. when I go venice, im planning on getting 325MHz with tccd, id like to see any bh5 come close LOL

Oc550, sometimes you can be so dense it's not even funny:

1. Macci does not have the world's best 3D Mark stable Bh-5. I hate to break it to you, but there are others that can actually bench higher than that.

2. Only a fool would base his perception on Bh-5/UTT from his single friend's experience. It might be true that your friend had little luck, but one person's results cannot be seen as representative of the whole. And for the record, standard OCZ VX is binned for 240 HTT, so he should at least be able to hit that.

3. In case you don't know, low latency memory running at 260+ HTT will easily outperfrom your TCCD at 300+ speeds. And let's not forget that these days a gig of good clocking UTT can be had for much less than your precious TCCD. Let's see you find a good GB of 300+ TCCD for under 150 :eh?:

deception``

[crimedog]

deception is right, oc550 is wrong once again. if i can bench my bh5 at 265 easily i think macci can do a little better. it all comes down to dividers at that high a speed. you find your sweet spot and sometimes 100mhz on the cpu makes up for 10mhz on the ram. oc550 i find it funny that you are willing to be constantly upgrading your cpu while whining about how much they cost when $120's worth of ram and a soldering iron or a booster would get you much higher scores in 3d01.

[ccbl91]

sum one wanna explain dividers 2 me?

[crimedog]

divider is used to lower memory speed when the HTT or FSB is high and you can't increase the multiplier. for example a 3000+ running 300x9 on a 5:6 divider has ram running at 250mhz, but that's a simple divider. a64 dividers are more complicated, and on an a64 running 5:6 300x9 it would actually be about 245mhz.

[ccbl91]

sry crimedog i didn't understand tat at all

[crimedog]

you use a divider to make your memory slower :)

[alinosa]

the 5:6 means that every 5 clock cycles on your memory there are 6 clock cycles for your cpu... i think. so a memory clock of say, 200 MHz (DDR400) would yield you a 240 MHz frequency on your cpu... i think this is right... i don't use dividers because of the performance hit i get on my board...

[Reefa_Madness]

sum one wanna explain dividers 2 me?

Try here, about half way through the guide.

http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=overclocka64

Performance is always better when these two are in sync, however, not everyone has memory capable of running at 1:1 ratio with their cpu. By using the dividers you are better able to adjust the relationship of the memory and cpu speed. It allows you to run the ram at one speed and the cpu at another (usually higher) speed which results in you being to maximize your cpu speed but at the same time not exceed the capabilities of your ram.

[ccbl91]

aite so basically, dividers allow ram to run slower than the cpu while making the cpu run faster

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

yes. it gets rid of ram as a ocing bottleneck while overclocking the cpu.

[el]

the reason for the low 260 or 270 in 3dmark is they all run fx55 with crazy 12-14x multiplier and that is all the mem controllers can handle.

[ccbl91]

so the ff-55 makes it run slower than an average amd 64?

[BeerHunter]

].

Hey man that's a strange avatar. Blue + A64? Looks like Intel got ahold of it ... :p

Anyway, OP, I definity can't afford this!!! Anything in the $100 range that performs well with A64 systems?

[Reefa_Madness]

so the ff-55 makes it run slower than an average amd 64?

el was responding to this part of OC550's post, when he made the comment that you are asking about.

Quote from OC550's post:
*********
If bh5 could go so high, howcome the highest bh5 or VX clocks ive seen in 3dmark is only 260-270? Macci himself had the best 3dmark stable bh5 at 262.

End of quote
*********

I believe that the point he (el) is making in his response is that the FX cpu, which has the upwards (as well as downwardly) adjustable multis is being used with high multis therefore it does not require as fast of a ram speed to hit the cpu's max. A cpu, such as a 3200, with a 10 multiplier would require a ram speed of 280MHz in order to hit 2.8GHz (if it could), however, an FX using a 14 multiplier would be able to hit the same 2.8GHz at only 200MHz ram speed.

So its not that the FX "makes" the ram run slower than average, its that it (FX) doesn't "need" the ram to run as fast as some of the lower speed cpus.

[tresmonos]

Here's Geil bh-5 memory for $162 ($202 before $40 rebate).
Its confirmed bh-5:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...ead.php?t=56460

Geil support:

http://www.geilusa.com/forum2/topic...591&whichpage=2

[man_utd]

Pretty sure OPB holds most of the records, if not all, when it comes to memory. Perhaps Hypro still has a higher bh-5, but I thought that OPB had surpassed that.

[Reefa_Madness]

Records...just meant to be broken...OPP, Macci, Hipro5, OPB, you, me (ha!) we all get our turn at the top.

Of course what is really important is that it means that people continue to get better and better performance from bh based ram...even years after it first came out.

That in itself is one heck of a testament to how good it is...do you know of any other computer part/component that is years old and is still used in top-performing rigs today? Years later it is still used as the measuring stick for ram performance.

[MrCooper]

Records...just meant to be broken...OPP, Macci, Hipro5, OPB, you, me (ha!) we all get our turn at the top.

Of course what is really important is that it means that people continue to get better and better performance from bh based ram...even years after it first came out.

That in itself is one heck of a testament to how good it is...do you know of any other computer part/component that is years old and is still used in top-performing rigs today? Years later it is still used as the measuring stick for ram performance.

I'm not getting you here, So you're trying to say that the old bh-5 die is the same as the utt since ocz have somehow branded now as BH5? :bang head :shrug: :p

[Reefa_Madness]

No...when I stated performance from "BH based ram" in reference to overclocking records and getting better and better performance I was referring to the fact that original Winbond BH-5 ram is still being used today in many of these new record setting rigs. The newer boards and cpus still appear to run best with the "old" ram when the goal is record setting performance.

I do believe that the UTT ram is basically the same BH die with some tweaking done to them based on the relationship between Winbond and Infineon, but that's just my guess. I don't believe that Winbond went out and re-designed BH and CH ram from the ground up to then sell it as UTT, but I also don't believe that these are identical to the original BH/CH. I never bought into the stories that the equipment (and more importantly) the engineering behind BH/CH had been destroyed or lost when Winbond quit production in late 2003. I do think they have tweaked the old designs somewhat. Being an outsider to the inner workings of Winbond, I'm just guessing and postulating and anyone's guess is as good or better than mine with respect to UTT.

As for the last part of your post...if I remember correctly OCZ doesn't brand them as "BH-5", they just claim that these new BH based modules have the same performance attributes as the legendary BH-5. TwinMOS, on the other hand, does label them as BH-5, but keep in mind that these are untested and unbinned BH and CH die based ram, so if they get rated to work at DDR400 speeds by OCZ or TwinMOS, then they are "BH-5", they are just not "original Winbond BH-5", they are now "OCZ BH-5" or in TwinMOS's case "TwinMOS BH-5 or CH-5" since that is how they advertise them (Speed Premiums PC3500 and PC3200, respectively) on their website.

[CCUABIDExORxDIE]

beerhunter, my avatar is the a64 logo, but the colors inverted. i thought it looked original. so i just went with it.