Worth to upgrade?

mustrum · Apr 17, 2005

Ok this is my situation:
I got a 3000+ Winnie at 290x9. MY memory is 2x512 crucial CL3 (-5BC´Micron chips think)and i have to run on the 133mhz divider to avoid memtest errors.
The memory is currently running at 194ish mhz at 2-2-2-5 1T.
I can run with the 166mhz setting (3:2 i think) wich results in 240ish mhz but i need horrible timings and get an error after a while in memtest86.
The performance isn't really better witht he higher setting (thanks to timings i guess).

If i'd upgrade my memory so i can run 1:1 how much performance gain would i get? My current testing showed me that the A64 seems to have way eanough bandwith allready. If i get a great performance increase with new RAM i consider an upgrade though.

If it's useful what memory would bea bale to reach that speed? I'm not looking for memory that can do 250mhz since that is definatly not worth it to me. (Noone will buy my current sticks for a half decent price i am quite sure.)
The only memory that can do that is with TCCD chips right? But will the drop in timings be worth it? :shrug:

Xtreme Barton · Apr 18, 2005

what do you primarily use your machine for ??

i can tell you running memory at higher speeds will definetly increase your performance, but whether its worth the money to you.. well... is up to you.

have you benchmarled the two different settings you stated above ?? and if so, can you post up a screen of sandra for both the results..

also what is the voltages you played with to get it up to 240 ?

Rumrunner · Apr 18, 2005

If you decide to upgrade, then gskill LE pc4400 will run 1:1 at speeds like that. As far as performance gains, I agree, it will help alot. How much, well it's hard to say, I have some memory bandwidth benches posted in my sig, from the Si sandra bench running 1:1. Run it on yours and see what you get, and that would be the best comparison.

Rob

mustrum · Apr 18, 2005

Xtreme Barton said:
what do you primarily use your machine for ??

i can tell you running memory at higher speeds will definetly increase your performance, but whether its worth the money to you.. well... is up to you.

have you benchmarled the two different settings you stated above ?? and if so, can you post up a screen of sandra for both the results..

also what is the voltages you played with to get it up to 240 ?

I have no screens anymore but yes i benched. Sandra benchmark showed a huge increase indeed. Like 1k more bandwith but that's not what i am talking about. Sandra is a synthetic benchmark and nothing more. While benching actual games that bandwith increase didn't give me a noticable boost in FPS.
This is a pure gaming machine.

It seems that even the worst timing have only small impact on Sandra bench.

Edit: I could hardly touch em anymore!!! I think the micron chips don't like high voltage too much.
Currently i run em with only 2.7v on the tight timings. They are stable and cool at that setting.
I'd only upgrade if i get a noticable boost in gaming performance. Sisoft Sandra and 3dmarkxx mean nothing to me.
I only get 5.6k in Sandra atm and i hat like 6.5k at 240ish clocks with bad timings. The increase to 7.5k when running 1:1 is huge in sandra. The question is: What benefit will i have from that? Memory is not really cheap. Paying 200+ € for only 1 or 2 FPS more would be a waste. If it gives me a good boost i'd consider it though.

It seems that timings only have a very small impact on the Sisoft bench.

Rumrunner · Apr 18, 2005

Yeah about the Sandra, I agree only because many other reputable sources have told me so as well. I wonder why though. Even though Sandra is not real world, higher Sandra, scores go hand in hand with gaming scores; in my experience with it.

If you want, I can slap a gig of pc 133 that I have, put it in my rig and run a divider like yours, and run a 3d bench. Then I will run it with my gskill and compare the two 3d mark scores.

mustrum · Apr 18, 2005

rob 119 said:
Yeah about the Sandra, I agree only because many other reputable sources have told me so as well. I wonder why though. Even though Sandra is not real world, higher Sandra, scores go hand in hand with gaming scores; in my experience with it.

If you want, I can slap a gig of pc 133 that I have, put it in my rig and run a divider like yours, and run a 3d bench. Then I will run it with my gskill and compare the two 3d mark scores.

I don't use PC133 RAM.

If you have the time to do this for me you'd only need to set your current TCCD's on a diviter that results on a frequqncy around 200mhz. Run it with extreme tight timings and compare. I'd really be interested in the difference in real games (not 3dmark).
You wont be able to get to my frequency because of the other CPU multiplier you have though i guess.

Edit: I could get hold of TwinMos Twister Pro's that do 287 fsb 2.5-4-4-x relatively cheap (180€) Gskills are horrible expensive and not available in europe.
Still need to get confirmed if that is on 1T and in dual channel though.

Edit2: I found Geil Ultra X TCCDs on a forum. They do 300mhz easy!
Read this review: http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=geiluxpc3200
Wich made me buy them immediatly! No need for testing anymore guys. I'll do that myself soon and will post my results.
If that review isn't far off the boost should be immense!
290mhz here i come!
According to the seller they do 285mhz at 2,5-3-3-7 memteststable at 2.52v!!

CCUABIDExORxDIE · Apr 18, 2005

beware though, some tccds love 2.5vs and no more. i saw a pair of corsair that anything over 2.5v would kill overclockability and would give errors. he had his up to 285 with 2.5v too.

Xtreme Barton · Apr 18, 2005

2.5 is rather low to expect from tccd. 2.9 is usually key .. some say above that helps tighten timings quite a bit.. like mine did. mine likes 3.1. and runs 300 fsb no problem.

and for gaming.. it will help .. how much is unknown till you try it yourself.. i say a nice upgrade will suite you just fine. but your 6800 ultra will be the workhorse for games

mustrum · Apr 18, 2005

Yeah but he has also 300mhz at 2.7v and he has screens with it unter Prime and memtest. I think he's trustworthy.

CCUABIDExORxDIE · Apr 18, 2005

yea, id say hes reputable. maybe have him do a cpu-z validization while running prime95. just as a precaution.

mustrum · Apr 18, 2005

CCUABIDExORxDIE said:
yea, id say hes reputable. maybe have him do a cpu-z validization while running prime95. just as a precaution.

That's exactly what he did. I think it's some very solid memory.
The memory does 300mhz at 2.5 4-3-8 1T at 2.7v.

Rumrunner · Apr 18, 2005

mustrum said:
I don't use PC133 RAM.
If you have the time to do this for me you'd only need to set your current TCCD's on a diviter that results on a frequqncy around 200mhz. Run it with extreme tight timings and compare. I'd really be interested in the difference in real games (not 3dmark).
You wont be able to get to my frequency because of the other CPU multiplier you have though i guess.

Edit: I could get hold of TwinMos Twister Pro's that do 287 fsb 2.5-4-4-x relatively cheap (180€) Gskills are horrible expensive and not available in europe.
Still need to get confirmed if that is on 1T and in dual channel though.

Edit2: I found Geil Ultra X TCCDs on a forum. They do 300mhz easy!
Read this review: http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=geiluxpc3200
Wich made me buy them immediatly! No need for testing anymore guys. I'll do that myself soon and will post my results.
If that review isn't far off the boost should be immense!
290mhz here i come!
According to the seller they do 285mhz at 2,5-3-3-7 memteststable at 2.52v!!

Have you considered something that is gauranteed to run at high speeds. The gskill I have is gauranteed to run 2.5-3-3-7 1t @ 275mhz and 2-2-2-5 @ 200. So if they didn't do at least that I could send them back. My ram has no problem running 2.5-3-3-5 1t @ 295, it would probably do more, but my memory controller craps out.

mustrum · Apr 18, 2005

rob 119 said:
Have you considered something that is gauranteed to run at high speeds. The gskill I have is gauranteed to run 2.5-3-3-7 1t @ 275mhz and 2-2-2-5 @ 200. So if they didn't do at least that I could send them back. My ram has no problem running 2.5-3-3-5 1t @ 295, it would probably do more, but my memory controller craps out.

If they don't run at 290 i'll just set the 166 divider and live with it. (Using tight timings)
There's allways a risk.
I read that these Geil run awesome with the MSI K8N Neo2 though.
If the memory controller craps out - a reason to get a Venice sometime.

Rumrunner · Apr 18, 2005

mustrum said:
If they don't run at 290 i'll just set the 166 divider and live with it. (Using tight timings)
There's allways a risk.
I read that these Geil run awesome with the MSI K8N Neo2 though.
If the memory controller craps out - a reason to get a Venice sometime.

I'd just hate to see you have to go 2.5-4-4-7 with them to get 290 thats all.

mustrum · Apr 18, 2005

rob 119 said:
I'd just hate to see you have to go 2.5-4-4-7 with them to get 290 thats all.

Would that be so bad? I know it drops performance a bit but is 2.5-4-4-7 290mhz that bad?

Rumrunner · Apr 18, 2005

It shouldn't be more than about 15% in bandwidth, but nobody should pay top dollar for that. Almost any TCCD can perform those timings at 290mhz. For someone willing to pay a premium price, it darn well better hit 2.5-3-3. Thats why I said earlier, you can send gskill LE's back, but if you have any other brand, forget it, your more than likely stuck, even with a bad batch of tccd that barely hit 2-2-2-5 at stock speeds.

*edit* Gskill speed bins thier ram, meaning they test them and take the best performers and call them LE's, then they take all of the chips that are extra or only hit 2.5-4-4-7, and they sell them as gskill LC's.

Xtreme Barton · Apr 18, 2005

mustrum said:
Yeah but he has also 300mhz at 2.7v and he has screens with it unter Prime and memtest. I think he's trustworthy.

i wasnt suggesting he wasnt trustworthy. i am just giving a general rule of thumb with the tccd. some have better results, some have worse.. but most will end up in 2.9 range. he has got some killer ram for such low volatges. i wish i had some that would do the same honestly.

and no 290 at 2.5-4-4-7 or 8 isnt that bad. it will be better than what you have now ..

mustrum · Apr 18, 2005

I'm not paying top dollar either.
Paying 230€.
Gskill PC600 are 280€ (new) but they have CL3-4-4-8 warranted only wich is worse than these Geil can do.
Availability of TCCD's is horrible here too so you can't be too picky.

Xtreme Barton · Apr 18, 2005

you could always ask a mod or someone if they will purchase ands ship to you.. not sure what that would end up costing but its another avenue.

mustrum · Apr 18, 2005

Xtreme Barton said:
you could always ask a mod or someone if they will purchase ands ship to you.. not sure what that would end up costing but its another avenue.

I did that with the crucials i use. After tax it was just as expensive as here thanks to expensive shipping. In the end i didn't save a cent.

Worth to upgrade?

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