"From Hotrodding To Golf?"

"From Hotrodding To Golf?"
Ed Stroligo - 5/21/05
http://overclockers.com/tips00782/

"It may be unfair to some degree, but it seems like the gaming industry wants to toss out the teens and college kids and turn gaming into a place composed of twenty-somethings who don't have a life, and even older ones who never got one."

This scares me.

"From Hotrodding To Gold"

"It may be unfair to some degree, but it seems like the gaming industry wants to toss out the teens and college kids and turn gaming into a place composed of twenty-somethings who don't have a life, and even older ones who never got one."

that scares me too..

Pretty soon it will be like Ed said... we won't have anything to turn to other than consoles for any gaming experience...

I have a hard time trying to explain to people that they need a video card that costs about half of the other parts combined just to be able to play HL2 and Doom3

And now we may need two cards to play decently? That's not going to sell well with many...

I bet, like the article said, Donald Trump may buy the games and hardware, but will he use them? He doesn't have time!

this sucks.

I thought that when info on the PPU was first released, it was said that it will only cost around $100. I thought it seemed too good to be true back then... guess I was right.

We are going to need to spend about $2000(candian) after tax on upgrades to be able to play games soon.

MS must love this as the X-Box 360 is some HOT hardware and cheap

Im not convinced. Sure, you can spend 1k on an sli vid card setup.

However, a geforece4 ti will still run any game out right now- for $50. Maybe not at the best settings, but they will run. A $120 9800pro will run must games at pretty good settings.

The only reason you need to spend more than $120 on a vid card is for exta eye candy.

I have a radeon 9800 and I agree, you don't need "the eye candy" to play games, all you need is something that will play them, even if that means the lowest settings.

Kevin007 said:

I have a radeon 9800 and I agree, you don't need "the eye candy" to play games, all you need is something that will play them, even if that means the lowest settings.

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I definitely agree, I don't want to start a flame fest but too many people around here seem to believe you need a 2-3 hundred dollar card to play games, but the truth is thats just for the obsessive. I am a teen, and I whenever I want something for my computer, I have to raise my own funds and because of that, I refuse to spend 300 dollars for some brand new tech when I can buy something that was brand new a while ago for less and games adequately. Gaming is nice, but like the first car I am gonna buy later on, I'm just looking for a machine that'll get me from point a to point b. Screw the tech companies cuz I don't see myself ever buying into there luxury items because (a) its gonna be cheaper in time and (b) Because if its too expensive, I'll just live without it

Sorry about the rant, but this is just my opinion

lincolnompa said:

I definitely agree, I don't want to start a flame fest but too many people around here seem to believe you need a 2-3 hundred dollar card to play games, but the truth is thats just for the obsessive. I am a teen, and I whenever I want something for my computer, I have to raise my own funds and because of that, I refuse to spend 300 dollars for some brand new tech when I can buy something that was brand new a while ago for less and games adequately. Gaming is nice, but like the first car I am gonna buy later on, I'm just looking for a machine that'll get me from point a to point b. Screw the tech companies cuz I don't see myself ever buying into there luxury items because (a) its gonna be cheaper in time and (b) Because if its too expensive, I'll just live without it

Sorry about the rant, but this is just my opinion

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But the thing about the PPU is that it's no just eye candy. Since Unreal 3 engine fully supports it, it will probably be used by many games. And since physics will have a major effect on gameplay (ex: imagine clearing out a room of enemies by blowing through a retaining wall and watching the water on the other side flood the room and kill the bad guys. And I'm not talking about a scripted event. Thats fully destructible environments and fluid dynamics. Two PPU things) and if you don't have one, you may not be able to play. And if the starting price is $250-$300, well, what are you going to do?

Think about it, the hardware companies may want to do all this, but the games companies don't, the hardware people can survive by selling half as much hardware at twice the price, but the games companies won't if only half the number of people are buying their games.

In the long run I doubt it will work.

Vid cards are quickly getting priced out of most peoples budgets with a decent 6800GT costing over $300? What gives? It used to be you could get a de-clocked full-piped GF3 Ti200 or GF4 Ti4200 for $150-200. The new situation with SLI doesn't help matters either. Most gamers can't afford it, or don't want to dump that much money on hardware.

I'm sticking with $200 and less cards. To heck with this, no matter how cool it may be.

What i cant get is why we need 2 graphics cards and all the memory data in two places. Come on ati/nvidia give us a powerfull one card solution.
Make dual core gpus! 2 cores as one card with 256mb and pcie16 == 2 crads with one core and 256mb on 8xpcie.

as for the phisics chip if too few people have duals/Hyperthreaded p4s for doom3 hl2 etc to decide to not code for them lets asume for the ppu to take off evryboady will need one.

So how about (we keep hereing cpus future is features not mhz) licence the teck to Intel/AMD have all the top end parts come with a intergrated PPU.
AMD already have the HyperTransoprt links and the cross bar and i dont see why a ppu cant be added to the cpu in this way, probably easyest to add it to the HT link.
A new version of the cpu can include the next PPU and how about 6 months after the launch of mk1 ppu inclusive FX/EE we all get it.
1. prove it works well.
2. bring it massmarket.

edit: if ur thinking how much will my cpu cost now!!! well since they hit a birck wall im not going to continue to pay up to a 800 premium or whatever amd thinks for fast dual core cpus put it this way if i spend 1000 on a pair of new cpus (as well as needing ram and a motherboard and new graphics card) they beter
a. be faster than what i have by a long way
b. have a lot of features.

since a is out of the question ( i want an 'oh thats fast' grin) u (amd/intell) beter start adding features. ie an opteron dual core 2.8ghz + ppu = $799 2.8ghz sans ppu $700 this would still be out side evrybaodys market thats why it must come down in a mater of mounths else the first version will not take off and the second will probably never be made.

you cant just add the PPU to the CPU its 125million transistors
Athlon 64's with 512 L2 have only 68.5 - 76 milion transistors for example.
you think CPU are expensive now, a PPU would more than double the cost

Dual core GPU's are here now http://www.amdreview.com/reviews.php?rev=ga3d1 its just a limited selection

lincolnompa said:

I definitely agree, I don't want to start a flame fest but too many people around here seem to believe you need a 2-3 hundred dollar card to play games, but the truth is thats just for the obsessive. I am a teen, and I whenever I want something for my computer, I have to raise my own funds and because of that, I refuse to spend 300 dollars for some brand new tech when I can buy something that was brand new a while ago for less and games adequately. Gaming is nice, but like the first car I am gonna buy later on, I'm just looking for a machine that'll get me from point a to point b. Screw the tech companies cuz I don't see myself ever buying into there luxury items because (a) its gonna be cheaper in time and (b) Because if its too expensive, I'll just live without it

Sorry about the rant, but this is just my opinion

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agreed, although it is nice to have "eye candy"

firstly i dont have a clue a bout the fabrication costs of cpus but im guessing a dual core cost $150-$200 USD to fabricate.

2nd, That gigabyte has 2 cores not a dual core gpu. yeha thats a start but its still a wastefull way to do it, mabey yealds are beter this way and so its cheeper for us but..... seams like a half a job.

The p4 dual cores start/cost ~$250 yeah? well lets a sume for a crazzy moment that intel makes money on those. They have ~250 million transisters. So intell makes maybe $75-$125 profit depending of yealds.

amd have ~120 million transisters in a single core L2==1MB and ~233in a dual so lets figure that that costs $200 to make with .090 teck asuming the yealds are not as grate as intel's (they could be better so mabey it cosst only $150 to fabricate but i dought that).
so as u see the ppu has fewer transisters than ether of the major desktop cpu manufactures

so on a dual p4 with 250 the addition of the ppu brings that up to 375 milllion transisters. if the ppu is fabricated later/seperately and intergrated in to the carrier then yeilds are not altered. If you can sell many things cheeply u make more money than selling a few items expensively. 1) people are less willing to pay again in 6 mounths time 2) some people will never pay; its like BT and the whole ISDN joke. "we can sell 10 isdn lines for £200 or we could sell 30,000 for 20 quid, lets sell them for £400!!"

NOW we are trying to predict the future here....
So lets asume the p4 is dead and we have .065 bainias Dothan desktop efforts (yeah i am a real dreamer) the date is 20/06/2006 no new teck makes much headway in the first 6 mounths after intro also intel have operatonal prototypes now so this isnt all moneshine. Its 6 mounth after the lunch of the ppu as a card and its availibility as a pci 32 and pcie4x or whatever card is corsing no end of people posting threads about what/which to get.

Intel have ditched the traditonal fsb for a interconect that alows ram gpus(via pcie bus) and other co-processors to be pluged in lego block style, and cpus nolonger have to contend with each other for use of it. The new cpus are costing intel a theoretical $125-$150 to fabricate. lets asume that whoever makes the ppu chips can fabricate the things on .065 for somewhere between $70-$100 and sells them to intell or whoever for a profit of 50% so up to $150.
so intel can make a chip, a wonder chip withintergrated grateness for $275.
now intel what $150 profit from the sdverage sale price of a cpu. oh and its power requirements including ppu are ~65w for a 3ghz model.
so price the top end 3ghz part at $659
and the cheepest say a 2.6 or 2.5 ghz @ ~$430 ish
celerons don't come with a ppu so start them at 275 for a dual 2.4 up to a price point of about $400 for say a 3.0 (play with cache amounts intel)

not nessiceraly that expensive realy.

Ibm etal make the cell, the cell has >230 million transisters ibm are a company so they want a profit cell can't cost more than a ps3.

And like i said id buy a cpu for featuers.
Oh and AGEIA are only concerened in making and selling as many chips and geting as many in computers as posible.
insummery things taht signal adoption 1. cheep 2. avalibility must make many 3. early adoption a result of geting 1 and 2 correct.

Dual cores are closer to $40-60 to make would be my best guess as single core CPU's are about $20-30

But you not paying so much for a CPU because of materials required to make a CPU, you are paying for R&D and the fact fabs cost over $2billion to build.

Also the larger the die is the more you are going to pay for that CPU, as cuurent waffers are only 300MM, incressing the core size by 33%-50% is oing to cut CPU production in 1/2. So either they build more fabs, and cost of the CPU's go up, or the just increase the cost of the CPU and sella little less.

i cant even buy a decent video card..why would people start gaming on computers at all anymore..

techun said:

i cant even buy a decent video card..why would people start gaming on computers at all anymore..

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Get more people asking that question, and console sales are going to go through the roof.

Or GPU prices will drop.....