this is WHY you buy the best psu you can afford.

[deathstar13]

when i built my rig i need everything fast and cheap.and good psu's arent cheap so i settled for a rosewill 450wt for $37
my oc started out ok at 2.5ghz but soon dropped to 2.46ghz as my max i could run stable and didnt matter what voltage i pumped in.
granted it did a decent job but i knew i had much more in my system but the psu just couldnt keep up.
http://img287.echo.cx/img287/1429/superpi12347oe.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

so fast forward a couple months and i have $$$ for the psu i needed.
i bought a nice used pc p+c 510 used for a great price.
first thing i did was bump my htt up and see how it went and low and behold i was doing 2.5ghz once again with no voltage increase.
i added a bit more and set it to 1.525vcore and i get this!
http://img287.echo.cx/img287/8279/newpsupic8zb.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

now this is just hardly no testing at all nor any more voltage additions have been tried.so i expect alot more also.

also ill add dont let mbm5 fool you the lines are in spec with a MM if i was to check them.my rosewill was also above spec with a MM and also the lines looked worse than this.
this is not to say you have to buy pc p+c to do this. any good antec or fsp or sparkle will do just as good,long as it matches what you system needs.
on one hand i knew this would be the results as this isnt the first time ive went threw this but some people out there just dont get what quality brings to the table besides a high price.

[Nebulous]

Awsome results! :beer:

Now I know why my clawhammer won't give me the 2.5Ghz. Dang pos BFG 550w psu is crap and can't deliver. Best I can do is 2.45Ghz, but evry once in a while she'll just crapout, so i'm forced to run 2.4Ghz till i get a new replacement psu.

[deathstar13]

Awsome results! :beer:

Now I know why my clawhammer won't give me the 2.5Ghz. Dang pos BFG 550w psu is crap and can't deliver. Best I can do is 2.45Ghz, but evry once in a while she'll just crapout, so i'm forced to run 2.4Ghz till i get a new replacement psu.could be many reasons for that happening,im not familier with who makes that psu for them?
im pretty die-hard fsp buyer but i thought id try this one out also.
but ive seen many cpu's loose alot of oc's due to crappy psu's as once you apply the voltage to the cpu it just cant keep a strong steady flow going.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Dang pos BFG 550w psu is crap and can't deliver.

It should be a Fortron built unit - BFG has been using them for a while.

From their Powertech subsidiary to be specific - it should hold up under most load conditions, being possibly one of the 550w server models in disguise. If it's not working right, maybe see about getting it replaced. How are the rails with a multimeter?

Edit - is it this one?
http://www.powrtech.com/new_page_67.htm

[9mmCensor]

I buy the best PSUs I can afford cause the cheap ones kill stuff(more often).

[larva]

this is not to say you have to buy pc p+c to do this. any good antec or fsp or sparkle will do just as good,long as it matches what you system needs.Quoted for truth.

[deathstar13]

seems to found a rather sweet spot with kinda low voltage and good oc.
still priming but looks like a setting to burn-in at and stability test for a few days.

anyhow its 2573mhz and 1.525 setting in bios and is 1.57v actual according to mbm5.
so a 115 mhz gain just buy swapping psu's!

now im gonna put my vdimm mod back on and see what it does now.it didnt do crap with the old setup as after the voltmod was done it was acting up and then the ram wouldnt run anything even the stuff i would normally pass at lower voltages on the vdimm.
im guessing the psu was crapping out also and sending dirty voltage into the line.

i just got 2 sticks of ocz pc3200 plat rev2 tcc5 in. not really any testing on them so far but im gonna do that later,im gonna snap my UTT value VX in and hit it with 3.3v or so and see if the psu had anything to do with it or the mobo was just acting screwy with the mod.

"edit" the old psu wasnt the cause of the vdimm mod acting up,it still does with the pc p+c also.

[Janus67]

this is a perfect example of what I try to explain to people who are building new systems, they try to cheat themselves out of getting a good quality PSU. Glad to see it is up and running strong.

[madhatR]

my true control 550 died on me .. and i needed one fast and i got a neopower 480 .. wont hold an overclock for anything .. no matter wut .. i guess its time to ditch and get a pcp&c 510

[larva]

Try the Sparkle FSP550-60PLG from newegg. It will do the same job for a lot less.

[Dukeman]

I don't have anything in the Pcp&p range but my new PSU is solid for now. TTGI 400w Smart Cable but before I had 1) Compaq 250W which died and took out my motherboard, slowly. The mobo lost things like the network and sound overtime until CMOS corrupted and it wouldn't boot. The next PSU was a PowMax 550W which came with the case I bought. It died and killed my CPU, slowly. It wouldn't hold an overclock and over slowly it failed, damaging the CPU. Then I got the TTGI but by then it was too late, I began getting random reboots and BSODs. I tried backing up to an earlier restore point but no go. Finally it died and it wouldn't even post. This is after I had the new PSU for a month. Leary of any PSU I checked all rails underload with a DVM (mine actually tracks high and low over time so I can leave it and know there are no intermittant dropouts occuring). I now have a new CPU and will try overclocking this weekend.

[deathstar13]

my true control 550 died on me .. and i needed one fast and i got a neopower 480 .. wont hold an overclock for anything .. no matter wut .. i guess its time to ditch and get a pcp&c 510
the true powers were the only ones i used and the others i didnt think looked as good.

larva is correct,the fsp 550 should be as good as mine but cheaper.
i picked my psu up for $140 shipped.
and now in the classifieds is an amazing deal for $125

i feel they warrent the extra cost somewhat but you wouldnt catch me paying $200+ for one.

[deathstar13]

I don't have anything in the Pcp&p range but my new PSU is solid for now. TTGI 400w Smart Cable but before I had 1) Compaq 250W which died and took out my motherboard, slowly. The mobo lost things like the network and sound overtime until CMOS corrupted and it wouldn't boot. The next PSU was a PowMax 550W which came with the case I bought. It died and killed my CPU, slowly. It wouldn't hold an overclock and over slowly it failed, damaging the CPU. Then I got the TTGI but by then it was too late, I began getting random reboots and BSODs. I tried backing up to an earlier restore point but no go. Finally it died and it wouldn't even post. This is after I had the new PSU for a month. Leary of any PSU I checked all rails underload with a DVM (mine actually tracks high and low over time so I can leave it and know there are no intermittant dropouts occuring). I now have a new CPU and will try overclocking this weekend.
cheap psu's can do really bad things,but i dont think the old psu's clearly killed all those parts.
unless you could see large voltage spikes as you described with a meter and even then who knows.
usually they kill parts when they die a sudden death and take friends with them.

[speed bump]

Yep, people don't believe in buying high quality stuff and then wonder why they didn't overclock as high as the other guy. Then theres me Thermaltake PSU must fix instead of buying new ones. $70 later worth of sleeving, caps, and other misc I should of just bought a Fortron.

[JudgeDredd]

Yup, I'm pretty sure my overclock is being held back by my PSU. I have a Neopower, which normally would be a good PSU, but not with two 6800GTs attached to it. I'll be getting another here real soon.

[zer0nix]

I don't have anything in the Pcp&p range but my new PSU is solid for now. TTGI 400w Smart Cable but before I had 1) Compaq 250W which died and took out my motherboard, slowly. The mobo lost things like the network and sound overtime until CMOS corrupted and it wouldn't boot. The next PSU was a PowMax 550W which came with the case I bought. It died and killed my CPU, slowly. It wouldn't hold an overclock and over slowly it failed, damaging the CPU. Then I got the TTGI but by then it was too late, I began getting random reboots and BSODs. I tried backing up to an earlier restore point but no go. Finally it died and it wouldn't even post. This is after I had the new PSU for a month. Leary of any PSU I checked all rails underload with a DVM (mine actually tracks high and low over time so I can leave it and know there are no intermittant dropouts occuring). I now have a new CPU and will try overclocking this weekend.


how does one know when a cpu is dead or dying? -also, what does 'bsod' mean?


Try the Sparkle FSP550-60PLG from newegg. It will do the same job for a lot less.

holy fark, that's a $103 psu! :O are there any good ones for ocing that are under $70?

[deathstar13]

Yep, people don't believe in buying high quality stuff and then wonder why they didn't overclock as high as the other guy. Then theres me Thermaltake PSU must fix instead of buying new ones. $70 later worth of sleeving, caps, and other misc I should of just bought a Fortron.
this is exactly why i bought the cheapest psu i could that would work but not kill anything until i could afford better.
some people buy the cheaper than the better stuff to save money and thats a bad move.

if this werent oc.com forums and we didnt oc we could all use cheap psu's and get away with it most the time.but we oc,we need specialised psu's for our job at hand.buy outside that recomended list and you asking for trouble.

[zer0nix]

buy outside that recomended list and you asking for trouble.

which list? :shrug:

[deathstar13]

which list? :shrug:the imaginary list OKwolf and larva use to tell people what to buy.
isnt one really but would be nice,but would need to updated almost daily as the market has tons of options but unfortunatly not many are ones we should use.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56231
this one here is rather good and has some intersting info in it also.
thats about as close to a psu list i know of.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

the imaginary list OKwolf and larva use to tell people what to buy.

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've revealed my own whole list of preferences in one place for quite some time, so here goes:

My current top 5 based on company reputation for consistant build quality and low failure rates:

1 - Zippy/Emacs (not as often recommended being server oriented units)
2 - Fortron-Source/Sparkle/Powertech/Aopen/Nexus/SilenX
3 - Seasonic
4 - OCZ/Topower P6
5 - Enermax

Special mention: PC Power and Cooling (confirmed OEM's are Fortron-Source, Seasonic, and Win-Tact). Rumored/unconfirmed OEM's may be Zippy and Etasis - still trying to track down proof of those two. They know how to pick a good company to outsource from, and I wouldn't question the quality of any PSU they offer.

Also very good to average quality, but not as often recommended for whatever reason: TTGI/Superflower/Hiper, Antec/CWT/XClio, non P6 Topower (Tagan, A+GBP, Vantec, OCZ Modstream, BeQuiet, Aerocool, Globalwin), Enhance/Silverstone/Akasa, Etasis, AcBel/Coolermaster, HEC/Compucase/Heroichi, ATNG.

My run away screaming to just below average list: all Deer incarnations (and I know I'm going to forget some of these again) - Allied, Austin, Skyhawk, Foxconn, Eagle, US-Can, Tsunami, Mustang, Duro, Turbolink (some models), Okia, L&C, Codegen; Powmax/Leadman/Robanton/Raidmax/Real PC Power; Key Mouse; Q-Tec; Wintech/Ultra/MGE; Taiwan Youngyear/Aspire; Turbolink (all non Deer models); Sirtec/Thermaltake/Tisonic/Highpower; and anything else that provokes the words "I can't believe how cheap this 600w PSU is."

[deathstar13]

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've revealed my own whole list of preferences in one place for quite some time, so here goes:

My current top 5 based on company reputation for consistant build quality and low failure rates:

1 - Zippy/Emacs (not as often recommended being server oriented units)
2 - Fortron-Source/Sparkle/Powertech/Aopen/Nexus/SilenX
3 - Seasonic
4 - OCZ/Topower P6
5 - Enermax

Special mention: PC Power and Cooling (confirmed OEM's are Fortron-Source, Seasonic, and Win-Tact). Rumored/unconfirmed OEM's may be Zippy and Etasis - still trying to track down proof of those two. They know how to pick a good company to outsource from, and I wouldn't question the quality of any PSU they offer.

Also very good to average quality, but not as often recommended for whatever reason: TTGI/Superflower/Hiper, Antec/CWT/XClio, non P6 Topower (Tagan, A+GBP, Vantec, OCZ Modstream, BeQuiet, Aerocool, Globalwin), Enhance/Silverstone/Akasa, Etasis, AcBel/Coolermaster, HEC/Compucase/Heroichi, ATNG.

My run away screaming to just below average list: all Deer incarnations (and I know I'm going to forget some of these again) - Allied, Austin, Skyhawk, Foxconn, Eagle, US-Can, Tsunami, Mustang, Duro, Turbolink (some models), Okia, L&C, Codegen; Powmax/Leadman/Robanton/Raidmax/Real PC Power; Key Mouse; Q-Tec; Wintech/Ultra/MGE; Taiwan Youngyear/Aspire; Turbolink (all non Deer models); Sirtec/Thermaltake/Tisonic/Highpower; and anything else that provokes the words "I can't believe how cheap this 600w PSU is."id say i agree with that list but imo id have it this way

1 - Zippy/Emacs (not as often recommended being server oriented units)
2 - pc power and cooling
3 - Fortron-Source/Sparkle/Powertech/Aopen/Nexus/SilenX
4 - Seasonic
4 - OCZ/Topower P6

this is just me and we all are allowed are opinions.ive had several fsp's and i like the pc p+c better,but they loose points due to cost.but if thats an issue zippy/emacs are even more costly.
and id never buy an enermax. ive seen and read to many horror stories.


"edit" just some impressions ive noticed today running this psu.
i dont get where people say they are loud? i have 120mm fans at rated 29dba and i only hear air moving not the fan.anyhow i dont even notice the psu running and i consider my pc rather quiet.

also i do notice its adding some rather serious heat into my room.
putting my hand on the back of it and its definatly warm air coming out and at a rather decent flow too.

[Electron Chaser]

I buy the best PSUs I can afford cause the cheap ones kill stuff(more often).

I have seen this happen more then once. :rolleyes: "Well the guy at the store said it was a good Power Supply and that it was good to 580 watts. Is Powmax a good PSU?" "Do you think you can save anything?

[jcw122]

Great job Deathstar...I myself started out w/ a 350w Fortron (w/ the comp below), and it did me perfect, but I didn't OC anything cause I knew it might not hold so well (even though its Fortron), so I bought myself the Fortron Blue Storm 500w, this thing is a ROCK! very silent also, much more so than the 350w.

[deathstar13]

Great job Deathstar...I myself started out w/ a 350w Fortron (w/ the comp below), and it did me perfect, but I didn't OC anything cause I knew it might not hold so well (even though its Fortron), so I bought myself the Fortron Blue Storm 500w, this thing is a ROCK! very silent also, much more so than the 350w.thats the exact psu i was gonna buy.
but i found this used and cheap for what it is.

im not the type of person so much anymore i buy stuff just to say i own the best,or it costs $XXX,or buy above what i need.

im sure that psu will do anything you ask of it.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

2 - pc power and cooling

I always have trouble putting PC P&C in my top 5 just because of the fact they don't have just one supplier, while the rest of my most frequent recommendations either make them already or just stick to one OEM. And the cost is also a factor that tends to make them not worth it for me on low end models, where you're most likely to find a Fortron unit under the hood. So, I did the special mention thing ;)

Two of PC P&C's known OEM's are already on my top 5. The third and supplier of the guts in the 850w, Win-Tact, I don't have too much info on yet. I expect this one to be Zippy level, but I will likely never add them to my top 5 as they don't really sell to end users. PC P&C is the only source of them I know of.

I was reluctant to put Enermax on my list, however they're only there until Antec/CWT gets the fan issue dealt with on the True 2's. Then, Antec goes back in there somewhere and Enermax gets bumped back down to the second level.

[damarble]

I've experianced a weak PSU killing my OC. My little Celly would only do 3.4ghz on the junk PSU that came with my junk $10 case. After I got the Fortron, I could go over 4.0ghz! I'm a believer in the importance of a good PSU now.

[deathstar13]

its seems all the suppliers for pc p+c are all top notch except for the one unknown win-tact as which your comparing to the best zippy.anyhow imo it doesnt matter who builds it as long as its your specs and design and picked parts that are used that make the differance.
and by no means im a a pc p+c elitest as ive seen them and about made me never want to even own one.but it just sounds to me its due to the price as to why you dont rank them as high?
imo zippy is about same price and lower in some cases and better quailty.but zippy isnt an atx home pc psu maker and can have issues in home pc's ive seen.being a server market psu supplier.so seeing pc p+c is more home "focused" i like them as a enthusiest supplier.
but i will admit i like antec alot better than enermax.
wasnt too many years ago id say 2-3 that enermax was rated one of the bottom end psu's with line regulation and failiers.but they have goten better.
the enermax stuff is all opinion and isnt based on any single facts.

i dont want to sound like i know it all about psu's OK wolf im just chatten and love picken peoples brains for info i didnt know.so what sometimes sounds like im questioning your opinion its rather im trying to see why you have that opinion.
trust me your opnion is highley regarded here!

[deathstar13]

I've experianced a weak PSU killing my OC. My little Celly would only do 3.4ghz on the junk PSU that came with my junk $10 case. After I got the Fortron, I could go over 4.0ghz! I'm a believer in the importance of a good PSU now.you know it,i know it,and 90% of the people here know it.

but truth be told 50% of everyone here will go against what they know to try and save a few bucks.some will get lucky and some will get burned,and some of them will get burnt parts and crappy oc's

i knew i was gonna get a crappy oc with the cheap psu i bought but i needed to get my rig up and running,but then i started looking into spending a few $$ more and get a so "called ok" psu.but then i remembered i know me and it would still suck ocing wise and would need to spend even more $$$ for the one i really needed plus the decent one i had just bought before it.

so sometimes we do need to buy the cheapest psu ever made.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

so what sometimes sounds like im questioning your opinion its rather im trying to see why you have that opinion.
trust me your opnion is highley regarded here!

No problem, I see where you're coming from - was just trying to explain my stance on PC P&C ;)

In short, why they aren't on my list is multiple OEM's combined with pricing that doesn't always make them the best choice in my eyes. Their newer Seasonic made Silencers, for example, are older designs - I would rather buy an S12 directly from Seasonic. Their Fortron made units, which are usually the lower watt models, don't compete too well with Fortron's own pricing.

It's up at the level of the 510w and 850w that PC P&C's prices start looking a little more competetive with Zippy, or other such enterprise oriented companies. The latest rumor I have is that Etasis is the one responsible for the 510w - if I can ever confirm that, I'll tie them with Zippy or Fortron. My early impressions are that Win-Tact is definitely Zippy level, but I don't have much knowledge of their units. Aside from the 850w and a 450w Turbocool I once saw online, I have no idea how many PC P&C are Win-Tact.

Here's that 450w for the curious: http://terasan.info/dengen/no041/index.html

Win-Tact's less than informative website: http://www.wintact.com/

[speed bump]

Oklahoma they would need a detailed spec sheet includeing every component used for their PSU, how thier assembly line works, and how exactly they figured out the ratings for their PSUs to be happy.

Wintact builds PSUs for slot machines so they have got to be reliable, could you imagine what happens when granny sits down with her pension check and the machine dies. :) I do wish they could post some of the specs for their ATX PSUs though.

[deathstar13]

good read man. well good pics anyhow :)
it seems its coming down to which unit thats being discussed.
in one way i only see 1 psu made by pc p+c thats really worth considering due to the price/perfomance stand point. the 510atx

but your right the fsp line is great up and down price/perfomance wise.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Oklahoma they would need a detailed spec sheet includeing every component used for their PSU, how thier assembly line works, and how exactly they figured out the ratings for their PSUs to be happy.

Totally agree, which is why I mentioned I wouldn't question the quality of any of their units ;)

I wish too Win-Tact would put more info up about their units - googling around gets you one or two of their server units, but there's not really much else to go on. I get the impression Win-Tact doesn't really need to market their own units.

in one way i only see 1 psu made by pc p+c thats really worth considering due to the price/perfomance stand point. the 510atx

They rock indeed :D

I've been recommending them more and more lately for those wanting SLI - I might actually throw this one model up there as a Fortron tie at #2 just because it's been so good for so long. Price is getting better too. And when a batch got shipped with bad inductors, they fixed the issue but quick.

[Dukeman]

how does one know when a cpu is dead or dying? -also, what does 'bsod' mean?

BSOD means Blue Screen of Death for windows based systems

In my case the system began to randomly crash with shorter and shorter times from boot to crash until the OS wouldn't even boot and the system during POST and then it just quit posting.

I figured it out by testing the memory and CPU at work and the symptom traveled with the CPU.