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What are TCCD and TCC5 chips?

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Eric1285

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Well, I've been reading up on the forums, and I've been out of the game for a couple years. What are these new chips? What speeds and timings will they do with what voltages, and how do they compare to the BH-5 chips that were king not so long ago?
 
TCCD/TCC5 is Samsung's baby, an extrememly popular enthusiast and mainstream memory IC that has become the king of 'all-purpose' memory.

Mind, (IN MY OPINION - MANY WILL DISAGREE ;)) BH-5 still rules over everything given enough voltage, due to its ability to run tight timings. The new platforms (namely, the S939 nForce4 Athlon64 platform) also take BH-5 further than ever before, making it a force to be reckoned with.


TCCD is a memory IC specced for DDR500 (250 MHz) operation. TCC5, whilst physically identical to TCCD, is specced for DDR466 (233 MHz). TCCD/TCC5 chips will typically run 2-2-2-X timings to around ~220 to ~230 MHz, using under 3V of VDIMM. However, where TCCD/TCC5 really shines, is in its ability to scale quite high with low VDIMM overvolts, using fairly tight 2.5-3-3-X timings. A good TCCD/TCC5 speed bin (memory that has been tested en-masse to meet a certain performance standard) will often make it with stability to 300 MHz, 2.5-3(4)-3(4)-X using under 3V of VDIMM voltage.

For the mainstream user, the low-voltage overclocker, and as a day-to-day memory chip, TCCD/TCC5 is an excellent alternative to BH-5 (or the "new" BH-5, a memory IC with no factory standard of operation called UTT), coming close to matching the performance of tight timings through high frequencies.

TCCD/TCC5 typically sees it's overvoltage gains peak at around 2.8V-3.1V. Some older TCCD will continue to see gains right to around ~3.3V, but such memory is uncommon. Most TCCD peaks before 2.9V. A lot of the higher-grade TCCD/TCC5 speed bins seems to lose overclock integrity past 2.8V.

Because of it's potential at low voltages, TCCD/TCC5 can be purchased in some really outrageous guaranteed (binned) speeds. DDR600 TCCD/TCC5 memory can be bought off of the shelf. OCZ sells a TCC5 product specc'ed for 313 MHz. Through speed binning, enthusiast memory manufacturer's have made the most of the chip's potential.

Makes me wish that such aggressive binning standards were around in the BH-5 days :-/


As for TCCD/TCC5 measuring up to good BH-5 (or good UTT for that matter), if you can provide the voltage to the BH-5/BH-6/UTT, it's going to be a "close race" :)
 
Wow, thanks for all the info. TCCD/TCC5 sounds like great stuff, although it's probably not worth the money to upgrade from what I think are BH-5 sticks (still too lazy to check).

Is there any way to find out if my PC3500 HyperX (says 2.5v on the sticker) is BH-5 without taking off the heatspreaders? I've read lots of info saying that it is, but I've never really tried pushing it, and I don't want to ruin its looks by pulling off the heatspreader.
 
you can put the heatspreaders back on after you take em off. and to make sure they are bh-5, try running em at like ddr450 with 2.9-3.0v at 2-2-2-5, if it can do that,then its pretty much gaurenteed bh-5.
 
See if it will run with 2-2-2 timings, and see if it will boot at CAS 3. If it runs with 2-2-2 timings, but doesn't boot at CAS 3, then it's BH-5 (Kingston never used BH-6 in their PC3500). I've read that it is the SPD chip that affects BH-5 in this manner, rather than the IC itself, but only BH-5 and BH-6 will run 2-2-2, but fail to boot with a CAS 3 timing.

Anyhow, you don't need to worry, because Kingston HyperX "PC3500" (not "PC3500A", or "PC3500K2", which uses CH-5) always has BH-5 ICs, although the chips are rebadged :).

XtremeSystems Memory List

HyperX PC2700 (2-2-2-5-1T) (KHX 2700) --chip--> first Samsung TCB3, then Winbond BH-6, CH-6, CH-5, relabeled unknown Chips.
HyperX PC3000 (2-2-2-6-1T) (KHX 3000) --chip--> first Samsung TCB3, then mainly Winbond BH-5, some BH-6, CH-5, CH-6 (maybe relabeled)
HyperX PC 3200 (old revision, not AK2, K2 or A) (KHX 3200) --chip--> Winbond BH-5
HyperX PC 3200K2 (2-2-2-6-1T) (KHX 3200K2) --chip--> Winbond BH-5
HyperX PC 3200AK2 (2-3-2-6-1T) (KHX 3200AK2) --chip--> Winbond CH-5
HyperX PC 3200ULK2 (2-2-2-5-1T) (KHX 3200ULK2) --chip--> Samsung TCCD
HyperX PC 3500 (rated 2-3-3-7 @ 433Mhz, 2-2-2-6 @ 400Mhz, old revision) (KHX 3500) --chip--> Winbond BH-5 (maybe relabeled)
HyperX PC 3500K2 (2-3-3-7) (KHX 3500K2) --chip--> Winbond CH-5
HyperX PC 3500A (2-3-3-7) (KHX 3500A) --chip--> Winbond CH-5
HyperX PC 4000K2 (3-4-4-8) (KHX 4000K2) --chip--> Samsung TCCC, Hynix D43, D5
HyperX PC 4300K2 (3-4-4-8) (KHX 4300K2) --chip--> Hynix D5
Kingston Ram w/remarked Chips as D328DW-45 --chip--> Before Week 18 Year 03 Winbond BH-5, after CH-5 (18 03 can be both)
Kingston Ram w/remarked Chips as D328DW-5 --chip--> Winbond BH-5
Kingston Ram w/remarked Chips as D328DW-6 Winbond BH-6
Kingston Ram w/remarked Chips as D328DM-6 --chip--> should Winbond BH-6
Kingston Ram w/remarked Chips as D328DM-5 --chip--> should Winbond BH-5
Value Ram 333Mhz (2,5-3-3-*) (KVR333X64C25) --chip--> may or may not contain Winbond BH-6, AH-6, Hynix D43, D5 look at the chips (maybe relabeled)
Value Ram 400Mhz (2,5-3-3-*) (KVR400X64C25) --chip--> may or may not contain Winbond BH-5, CH-5, Micron 46V32M8 -5B C, Hynix D43, D5, Samsung TCCC, TCC4 look at the chips (maybe relabeled)
 
Curses...I have KHX3500K2...didn't realize it. Oh well...I guess I'll try to trade for some BH-5.
 
Hm, from reading the sticky and some of the stuff in here, it seems as if in a Shuttle (with limited airflow over the ram) it might be better to go with TCCD, since I won't really be wanting to push the voltage much higher than 2.9 or 3.0v. 3.2 or 3.3 with very little airflow in the case would probably be a good recipe for deep fried ram!

Edit: Hmm...well, you said that s939 (which I'm running) gives BH-5 new life...but on the other hand, I don't think giving my ram 3.2-3.3v is a good idea in a shuttle. Any opinion on this matter? Would it be better to run say 240-250mhz at 2-2-2-x or 280+ mhz at 2-3-3-x? This will be in a system with an overclocked 3000+ venice...planning on using a gig of dual channel ram, although I just need to figure out whether to get BH-5 or TCCD!
 
Hm, oh yeah...which do you think will hold it's value better over the next couple years? I see that BH-5 is still worth about 80% of what it used to be. I'm pretty budget minded, and I usually try to resell or reuse what I have at the end of my upgrade cycles.

I still feel some sort of wanting to use BH-5, just because back when I was very much into all the latest and greatest, BH-5 was king and I had it drilled into my head that it was the very best stuff. Call me a bit skeptical of TCCD I guess. What are my chances of getting some TCCD sticks that'll run at 300mhz with timings around 2.5-3-3-x, and hopefully under 3.0v?

Also, how deadly can voltage be? I remember a long time ago, people used to even argue that heatspreaders on ram weren't worth the added cost, since ram didn't even come close enough to needing it. I guess nowadays with vdimms going past 3.3, they're needed, along with airflow? I'm just trying to figure out how high I could conceivably run the ram in my shuttle without frying it.
 
I still feel some sort of wanting to use BH-5, just because back when I was very much into all the latest and greatest, BH-5 was king and I had it drilled into my head that it was the very best stuff. Call me a bit skeptical of TCCD I guess. What are my chances of getting some TCCD sticks that'll run at 300mhz with timings around 2.5-3-3-x, and hopefully under 3.0v?

If you buy DDR600, you are guaranteed to get TCCD/TCC5 that will run at 300 MHz :). 2.5-3-3 timings are not uncommon, but will take some tweaking and some work to get completely stable. 2.5-4-4 is practically guaranteed to be stable with good DDR600, such as OCZ's offering.

OCZ sells some DDR600 TCC5 based sticks for fairly cheap, here they are on newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227208 - $260 for a gig. It is highly unlikely that this RAM will see any sort of gain above 2.9V. As I mentioned, a lot of the higher-grade TCCD/TCC5 speed bins actually peak at around 2.8V, their overclock often starts to degrade with further overvolting.


Also, how deadly can voltage be? I remember a long time ago, people used to even argue that heatspreaders on ram weren't worth the added cost, since ram didn't even come close enough to needing it. I guess nowadays with vdimms going past 3.3, they're needed, along with airflow? I'm just trying to figure out how high I could conceivably run the ram in my shuttle without frying it.

I run my BH-5 at 3.78V for day-to-day use. I have removed the heatspreaders from the sticks, and I actively cool them with a single 80mm fan. If you have space for such a memory-cooling specific fan in your case, and if your motherboard can supply the VDIMM, BH-5 is still an excellent choice. Check this thread out for an easy-to-make memory cooler :): http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=350891

However, for a day-to-day stable memory overclock, TCCD/TCC5 is probably a better choice, also considering that it is easily and inexpensively available. The low voltage requirement, and the huge frequency headroom make it an excellent choice both for overclocking, and for day-to-day use.
 
All right, well I was looking around (as usual) and I came across a test conducted on Anandtech, which showed that for Athlon 64's, lower latency is much, much better. With this in mind now, will TCCD have any chance of doing 2-2-2-x at 250mhz. I know BH-5 will do it, but it'll probably require like 3.0 or more volts. If TCCD can do it with 2.8-2.9v, I'd much rather have that...and at the same time, have the option/possibility of getting up to 300mhz.
 
There's very little chance you'll get any TCCD/TCC5 running with 2-2-2 timings and any degree of stability much past ~230 MHz :-/.

Dumo HERE has a set of TCCx running at 230 MHz 2-2-2, but that's exceptional to be honest.
 
Hrm, I guess I'll probably go BH-5 then. Currently, my shuttle (SN95G5) is bios limited to 250mhz HTT fsb. Most people are predicting a bios update that'll let us get to 300 though, and if so, then I'll be running a 166mhz divider and ending up at 250. I'd rather have something that'll do 2-2-2-x at 250 then 2.5-3(4)-3(4)-x at 300, according to a few tests and benchmarks I've been looking at.

Any idea if running BH-5 at 3.0 volts or higher in my shuttle will fry the ram? There's very little airflow over the ram.
 
Eric1285 said:
Curses...I have KHX3500K2...didn't realize it. Oh well...I guess I'll try to trade for some BH-5.
Don't trade them just yet. Those are probably CH-5 and they can behave very similar to BH-5 with the right voltage.
 
You should be O.K., although without active aircooling, I would not want to exceed 3.3V. You might want to buy some OCZ or Mushkin UTT, it comes with a liefetime warranty that covers it up to 3.5V.

I strongly reccomend that you fabricate some sort of aircooler for your memory - even a 60mm fan blowing over the sticks will make a large difference.
 
fldrice said:
Don't trade them just yet. Those are probably CH-5 and they can behave very similar to BH-5 with the right voltage.

Yeah, I just read that too! I'm going to go test right now. Apparantly they just have some sort of onboard voltage inhibitor...I heard that it gets bypassed once you go pass 3.1v.

felinusz - Yeah, there's a 92mm fan sucking air from the front to the back, but the ram is sort of on the bottom towards the right...there's a small 40mm northbridge fan that hits part of the ram, but not much. If I end up having to go over 3.3v, I'll definitely get some cooling on there.
 
D'oh...in my excitement I forgot that my board only goes to 2.9v....guess I'll have to give TCCD another look. Either that, or volt mod my shuttle!
 
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