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sangram

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2001
Location
India
Hi

To start with, we don't get heatercores/rads/pumps easily around these parts. Machining is primitive, and tools are expensive specially for high quality, imported tools.

Plus hardware is costly, a 6800 Ultra is nearly as much as my monthly pay. So, we've been on air only, and stock air most of the time. Thermaltake products are available at a little over the SRP prices in the US (a lot more than the actual street prices or newegg prices).

Plus I'm having a heat problem, the PC is heating up my room a lot. Then the case becomes hot, then the PC becomes hotter. By the end of it my CPU sits at about 60 degrees load, case temp 40 degrees and ambient about 33 degrees. Sweaty. On stock speeds/voltages, my air is actually doing well (load about 54 degrees, case temps around 38 degrees), but it can't handle the OC'ed CPU too well.

So I was considering watercooling to reduce the heat load inside the case and keep the CPU a little cooler, so the case and PS exhaust could focus on the rest of the PC.

But, we don't get custom parts. Even motorcycles sold here are air-cooled with smallish engines, so no rads from there. Cars have huge radiators, not useful. I could scrounge around and use a car fuel pump or an aquarium pump, but that would take a lot of time and money.

We get one watercooling kit here, the Thermaltake Big Water.

(ducks to avoid missiles)

TT products are really the only ones available. And not cheaply, really, the above kit is just north of $200. As far as air goes, TT are again the only ones available at all. Coolermaster may be available but not easily.

Is it worth it or should I stick with what I have and lump it? I live in a short-term rented apartment so I was not thinking of getting AC. A new AC is about $250-300. AC rental is all the rage ($10-$15/mo) but rental AC machines are like having a small car with its engine running parked in your living room.
 
That kit will do the job, but I'm not sure it'll be a big jump from air.

If you were willing to go the homemade route you may be able to find other parts you didn't think of in cars. Heater cores out of cars are usually what we use here in the U.S. for homeade setups. Most are painted up and have shrouds to make them look pretty for some company to put their name on, but thats all they really are. Atleast one of the systems out there uses an automotive pump (easy as it runs on 12V). This normally pumps antifreeze at a fair rate in a car. An aquarium pump will do also, as thats what many of us also use (including me).

The thing you might look at is whether or not the risk of water is worth it to you if PC parts are that expensive there. I watercool with a homemade (overkill) system, but if it all dies right now from an accident or leak I can have new parts in within the month.

If it is, and you want to start small and easy with water and keep risk to a minimum the pre built ThermalTake may be the way to go. If nothing else this may be a starting point in which you can add to as you go to drop temps. In the long run this isn't the most cost effective, but you'll learn allot and know what to look for in the future.

Heck AC will probably drop temps big time and make you cooler too. Maybe the $200-300 dollars spent on it atleast first will be the way to go.
 
Thanks for the reply. The only issue I see with an AC is that it'll be like running the AC with a window open. My earlier setup was an AXP1800 Pally that runs quite hot, and living on the topmost floor of the house (inside temp>36 degrees). The AC was not able to push temps below 27-28 while the PC was on, I used to run with sidepanel off.

Switching the PC off would result in an immediate drop - 3 degrees at least.

But it does seem like the best solution now. I'm living rental and looking at a job switch, depending on how that turns out I would probably get an AC...

I know the TT will be only a small jump from air, if that, but it costs more than a 3000+ Venice right now so IDK if it's low cost. Expensive to me. Maybe I'll just ditch the whole thing and plump for the A64 setup, and figure out cooling as I go along. AFAIK the A64s run cooler than the XPs...

IF I decide to DIY, can I use solder for copper work? You know, hobby solder. The type used for PCBs, not auto-grade? Or two-part epoxy sealants used in plumbing repair? Similar to JB weld, but not quite that... And I do have a saw, again a small DIY hand-operated type with a 1/8" blade. Not sure if it's enough to cut copper. I don't have a vise. Is it a serious handicap? No dremel or other power tools, though I do have two power drills of dubious quality...

How do I make the waterblock with such a limited selection of tools, assuming I get everything else spot-on?

Do car air-conditioners have a separate radiator or is it part of the main rad? My car is an Opel Corsa (Vauxhall Corsa in the US) and it has only one rad, a huge one, but two fans one in push and the other in pull. I do seem to remember at one point car ACs having a separate rad.

Aquarium pumps should be easy to get as should be tubing. I worry on the fittings though, they may not be easy to find, or lock leakproof. That is my single biggest worry going DIY...
 
Suggestion:
See the water block in the pic on the left? The "Bong Block"?
I made this with only a hacksaw, a torch, a cheap tubing cutter, and regular old radio shack small diameter electronics solder (silver/tin mix would have been better, but harder to work with). It took a total of 4 hours from conception to finish, and is running in my setup right now.
Ive tried other things like a solid 1/2" thick plexi with the base milled to take a 3/4" piece of copper plate with some pins milled in, But since this was my first copper W/B, i use it most.

Pumps for automobiles shouldn't be hard to get, and if you can get your hands on even a little giant tool pump and add some barbed ends, this would work well.
Radiators... IDK if they have smallish vehicles in India, but ask for the lowest price heater core, or use a transmission cooler if available (all aluminium).

BTW, Opel Corsa's have a seperate AC condensor built into the heat duct, but good luck getting it out since they built it with the mindset that it would never be replaced (Uncle used to work for GM, Opel is an overseas offshoot of Buick).Good luck and happy hunting...
 
Do cars have heaters in India? If so, they have a heatercore probably in the area your feet are located. That is not the same thing as the radiator that cools the engine; those are large.

You can make a copper-cap type block with a torch, solder, and something to cut/drill copper. This link should give you some ideas: http://www.overclockers.com/tips730/

Look for an aquarium pump. Automotive pumps are not a good choice.

Even with watercooling, your room is still going be just as warm. The heat has to have some path/vent out of the room for it to be cooler.
 
I'd use solder if working with tubing.

You say you have trouble with cooling but you know how to work with pipe? You know, if you did say strap a small car radiator to the side of your case you could have a quiet but very effective setup even with your ambient temps. Most people aren't willing to got this far but, if it's available, with in your ability to work with pipe, and you need a fairly extreme cooling solution this could be something to think about. As long as you attached it to the case it wouldn't be much of a pain and with the surface area you'd have you could even paint it to match your case without hurting without hurting it's performance too badly (you may not notice much difference). The setup could take the heat from your GPU too.

Just an idea to think about. It looks like the rest of your questions have been hit by the others.

Something else. If you look around and do some research you can find a motherboard that will accept a Mobile A64 proc to keep your temps lower no matter what method of cooling you choose.
 
PoX Freak: Awesome looking bong. And only a hacksaw, solder and tube cutter? You have given me hope.

I wasn't thinking of my AC condensor rad, but I know the people at the local Opel workshop and I could maybe scrap one from a damaged vehicle if possible.

We do have a small 800 cc car sold in India, and maybe I can find a rad for one on the cheap. Maybe not.

gungeek: Yes, some cars do. Thanks for the hint on the heatercore. I thought it was a part of the radiator. I'll look for one but I suspect it'll be more expensive than the rad.

And thanks for the link on the homemade block, too. I need to trudge though a few bylanes and find what I need.

Aquarium pump it is then.

YouEatLard: Thanks for the input. I will be using a regular soldering iron and 60/40 solder then. Mobile A64s are really not available in the country, even laptops with them are hard to find. When I said pipe I meant tubing, not copper pipe.

So anyway I backed off to stock settings and my temps are OK, about 52 degrees load, and the monsoon is on its way so hopefully the ambient will also drop in the next few days. I see my WC project beginning immediately, This Saturday it's time to make the block and source the rad. Next weekend I'll look for the pumps, those should be relatively easy. Thanks for the inputs everyone...
 
i bought the TTbigwater. anything you can do too avoid this product will save you money in the long run. however it will still do better then air. the money you spend with the TT you could build your own and do much better with a week or so research
 
outhouse said:
i bought the TTbigwater. anything you can do too avoid this product will save you money in the long run. however it will still do better then air. the money you spend with the TT you could build your own and do much better with a week or so research
Oh great, thanks for the warning. Don't really want to waste my cash. Have to get off my lazy butt I guess.

OK one last Q. How do you fasten the WB to the socket? I have the A7N8X, but the brackets look tough to make... Specially on the bong-type WBs. The regular ones should be less of an issue, I have some older sinks who can lend me their clamps.
 
Well, assuming you don't mind tinkering alittle, doing alittle research and moding I'd say most can make a watercooling setup that'll stomp a pre-built for about the same cost.

My setup:
dual 120 heater core
Koolance CPU-300-V13 cpu waterblock
Eheim 1260
7 feet of PVC tubing.
Cost: About $200 (USD), alittle more when you include shipping and thats with a $100 (USD) pump thats massive overkill.
If I would've gotten a normal-ish pump I could include the high flow gold plated Polar Flo block I bought in that price and still have kept it at around $200.

Justa thought. It's cool to see sangram is looking into his own setup.
 
As of now, looking, just looking. I will definitely NOT buy the Bigwater, I guess.

Depending on what I can find, I should be able to start but really it's not high priority for me that way.

I will HAVE to make the waterblock/get it machined to spec, the tubing, Rad and pump I'll have to buy commercial. It can be done, I know. I'm just trying to figure out the effort/payoff balance... Most of my DIY projects since last year have ended up half-finished. I have 70% of all the parts for a nice 5.1 HT power amp, which have been lying for close to two years with me, unused and unsoldered. So...
 
Most of my DIY projects since last year have ended up half-finished

I guess I have beat the odds then! If you can find copper caps in your area then you can make copper cap design blocks. Use the search copper cap and you will find much info on constructing one.

Good luck to you,
Bryan D.

PS- Click the sig below to see my DIY.
 
Does your motherboard have mounting holes? If so thats how you'd want to mount a DIY block.
 
Moto7451 said:
Does your motherboard have mounting holes? If so thats how you'd want to mount a DIY block.
Got that, but how does one make the brackets?

I thought of getting a base made which was the size of the mounting area, and drilling holes. But the cam box would be in the way.

The second idea I got from the main site was to get a nice heatsink and seal it up with some copper stock.

Though that would be seemingly easier, mounting becomes much more complex. I was thinking of a cross-bar structure where two strips of alumimum or steel could cross over the block and be secured into the mounting holes, in an 'x' over the block. But unsure of how much tightening pressure to use...

Thanks for the tips. I already saw the ideas on cap cooler, I have to scrounge and see what copper I can get my hands on. Plumbing stores carry only lead, PVC and cement pipes, I also saw what looked like galvanised iron... What are copper caps used for anyway?
 
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