Newb WC System / Budget -- Critique!

Goodolarchies WC Project (update)

UPDATE 6/28/05:
I've received everything in components so far, excluding my 120mm sunon fan from NE, and my chieftec matrix case, which the shipper was delayed and it is due in saturday. Since I can do anything without the case I thought I'd get everything else completely primed and ready to go.
Here's a list of the bulk I have now, or coming soon!

-Chieftech Carbon Black Matrix Case w/ Acryllic window.
-Swiftech 6002 WB w/ Intel P4 fittings (will buy a64 from frys soon)
-Maze 4 WB w/ Socket A fittings (will be going into my current system to test)
-Eheim 1048 Pump
-Bonny 2-302 (the larger) HC, w/ full fan shroud
-BIX I Chrome Radiator. Will probably stay w/ my Barton & Mid-tower
-DD "Custom" Resevoir. Its on their website and runs about $25. This was free w/ the pump, and is a nice little acryllic unit. It currently has 3/8" fittings though, so I must swap them out for 1/2"
-3 Sunon 43/107 120mm fans.
-Sunbeam 5.25" Rheobus, to quiet ^^^dem fans
-10' 1/2"ID - 1/8" Wall - 3/4" OD Clearflex 60 Hose.
-Oodles of SS and plastic clamps.

Pre-installation issues to deal with:
-The sweat fittings I soldered to my bonny core were SUPPOSED to be 1/2" Barb. Well they weren't. They're more like 7/16." Now my heater core is already flogged with fiberglass resin, solder, burned, etc, and I don't want to torture it any more with new fittings, so I'm just going to have to uberclamp (there is about 1mm of clearance between OD barb, ID hose) the hoses to it.
-The CF60 hose is a letdown. I'll probably have to get coolsleeves, as it kinks in anything less than a 6" diameter bend, damn it.
I wanted to cancel my order and get 7/16" Masterkleer but it had already been shipped. McMaster is fast!
-I have no case to test fit everything.
-I have been way too addicted to BF2's sniper and special forces kits.
-The fiberglass shroud for my HC is going to be somewhat odd to mount. My thought was this:
Get four 1/2" x 1/2" metal 'L' brackets, solder them roughly at the corners on the "corrigated" copper sides of the HC, and cut slots in the F'glass shroud to mount them to the inside of the case. This would also keep the shroud taught onto the fins of the HC, this keeping the good air in and the bad air out. Any thoughts on this?
...
that's it so far, will update. I'll also have a pics section soon.

Random last thoughts:
This project started out (not the WC project, the PC) as an upgrade to my current system, since my barton has been misbehaving recently and overclocking like $#@$. In fact, I have it underclocked at the moment. Plus I wanted to try an A64 chip. I planned on pulling the 160gb Seagate UATA drive and Kingston HyperX 2x512 ddr400 ram from the old system, plus a few drives and such. But now... I'm thinking get a small pump like a hydor L30, and use the Maze4 block to just WC the old barton system, use it in my living room as a heater for the winter, and for home theater use as well (interface it through TV, use wireless keyboard/mouse). If everything will fit into my current mid-tower case, I'm going to give it a try, see what temps I get with the BIX and the eheim.

Instead of the mag 3, I would get a AquaExtreme 50Z or MCP600 Rev2.0.

You could save ~$30 by simply buying a 1977 Bonneville heater core (2x120), make your own shroud out of cardboard, plexi, etc., mod in 1/2" barbs, then simply buy 10ft of Clearflex60 for $10.

Otherwise, look onm eBay/etc. for for used components, this can save a lot of money eventually.

Otherwise, your build looks good, good luck & post pics when you get it set up.

I like my Mag3 pump, so I'd say stick with that. You can probably find a better price though...shoot for $35.

You could also get the same heatercore for a little less (save on shipping too) at a auto parts store. Does anyone know what specific heatercore DD uses?

johan851 said:

I like my Mag3 pump, so I'd say stick with that. You can probably find a better price though...shoot for $35.

You could also get the same heatercore for a little less (save on shipping too) at a auto parts store. Does anyone know what specific heatercore DD uses?

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ive found for price and size for a single 120mm heater core the best would be the 1986 Chevy Chevette non-diesel.

and i would get the swiftech/danger den pump recommend before, i heard in some rare cases the mag pump can cause interfearnce, and plus ive been hearing/seeing its been discontinued.

The DangerDen HC is a Fedco 2-199 I believe. The 2-302 is similiar and there is a single pass 2-342.

For comparison: 302, 199, 342 (top to bottom)
http://www.cox-internet.com/weapon/images/3corcr.jpg

^^ That pic is from one of Weapon's threads, those cores have been modded.

honhon said:

ive found for price and size for a single 120mm heater core the best would be the 1986 Chevy Chevette non-diesel.

and i would get the swiftech/danger den pump recommend before, i heard in some rare cases the mag pump can cause interfearnce, and plus ive been hearing/seeing its been discontinued.

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Thanks for the supplies, guys! So, scratch the Mag 3. Looks like the MP-650 runs $80. That's almost half my budget. Anyone have a link to a similarly priced/performance pump for ~$50?

So the CPU/GPU blocks are solid, didn't hear anyone knocking them

To the radiator core. I do plan on running both my CPU and GPU (likely a 6800gt, but I'm waiting for next gen vid cards to come out first) and heavily overclocking both. I've read a few places that a single 120mm fan rad won't cut that, not nearly the cooling power a dual 120mm core will. I know the '86 chevette core would be very well priced (check my post above I mentioned it).
Except, since I don't have any fiberglass, solder, etc stuff around to use, I'd have to buy all of that, and I'd easily get into the $60 range, plus the time and cursewords in trying to make 2 good shrouds for push/pull, plus correct sized in/outlets. Am I wrong, or will the '77 bonneville pwn a '68 chev core in price/performance?

So if that is the core DD uses, and I'm pressed for space w/o a Full-size tower, it looks like the 199 (9.5" core) is best for me. Or any of those cores that were posted.
I do like this idea

Does weapon still sell shrouds for these cores? Or is DD the only place I can get one? If I had 'glass components to make I would, but I can just buy one cheaper and with less hassle.
BTW, I plan on using a T-line w/ filler cap on top. Maybe even a spare billet aluminum cycle filler cap I have in storage.

I've never seen the mag cause any interference, unless it's in an open case right next to your monitor.

Thanks for the supplies, guys! So, scratch the Mag 3. Looks like the MP-650 runs $80. That's almost half my budget. Anyone have a link to a similarly priced/performance pump for ~$50?

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That's the problem...all of these other "recommended" pumps cose $70-$80. It's pretty hard to beat the price of the Mag 3. Take it from someone who has used a Mag 3 for more than two years...it's a great pump, and there's nothing wrong with it. All you need is a little squeeze tube of silicon sealant for the O-ring, a screwdriver, and you're set.

I have a Mag3 and I'm pretty sure you'll love it if you decide to get one. Also if I was you I would look at some of the classifieds at different pc sites so you can save around 40% on the whole setup. I got my mag3 for $30 shipped with barbs and no leaks. Here's some sites if you're interested in used: Here and Here.

I too suggest sticking with the Mag 3, and sealing the O-ring. UNLESS you can find a MCP650 for cheap (~$45), then you might want to consider that. [Note: The MCP655 is going to be more expensive than the 650 as it is a new revision. 655 = black pump housing, 650 = blue pump housing]

As for shrouds/cores... Weapon still sells them, but you might need classifieds access to get them (100 posts).

EDIT: Also, maybe I missed it, what GPU block are you looking at?

for the prices you plan on spending for that HC you could get a BIPx2 or BIPII and have better performance as well as being more asteticaly pleasing and also easier to use.

Definetly look for a used pump, the mag dumps so much heat into the loop....

BTW, if you want ultra-cool and ultra-quiet you should reconsider some options. The sunons are pretty loud along with the mag.

If you really want a 12v pump, theres the D5/TDX deal right now at DD for $109.

Well, as for the pump I'll keep my eye out on the forums for a good one FS, otherwise with my budget I think I'll have to go with the mag3. ls7 (do you own one? ) - you're right, those sunon's are loud. But as I stated above I plan on running them at 7v or less. Only time they will be that loud is for heavy benching. Anyone know how many dba the mag3 is, off hand?
Thanks for all the replies, guys, my first order of business which I hope to have done is deciding on a tower case... and hopefully ordering one this weekend. Then I'll get to have some fun. I'm getting more hours this summer due to the fact that I'm out of class, so my budget is a little more flexible than I thought, which is also good. I'll keep you guys updated with my progress

I used a Mag 3 until just recently, as long as you can tame the vibration of it, it's not too loud.

Definetly look for a used pump, the mag dumps so much heat into the loop....

BTW, if you want ultra-cool and ultra-quiet you should reconsider some options. The sunons are pretty loud along with the mag.

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Have you ever owned one? I don't get it. Once the system is bled, the Mag3 is silent if you set it on a mousepad. Just needs a little vibration dampening. The heat it adds isn't bad either. Mine has lasted two years and shows no sign of slowing down. It's a great pump.

johan851 said:

Have you ever owned one? I don't get it. Once the system is bled, the Mag3 is silent if you set it on a mousepad. Just needs a little vibration dampening. The heat it adds isn't bad either. Mine has lasted two years and shows no sign of slowing down. It's a great pump.

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There seems to be quite a stir about this pump round these parts

Doesn't look like any of the folks that own and operate one are dissatisfied w/ theirs. From everything I've read, the pump dissipating heat is minimal between models, and can kind of be tossed aside. Many folks posted higher models and "just buy this and that," but I don't want my cooling budget to be 30% of my entire build! Higher flow would be nice, but what can I say.. I'm on a budget!

Like I said, I plan on buying this one new from the site above, unless someone can link to a site for cheaper). I'll keep my eye out in the forums for a used one somebody is selling, but I can't wait around too long.

Oh... Chunkymonkey, you said just buy the clearlex 60 for $10, which is what I was planning on doing, but who sells it retail? If I don't have to order it cool, but I don't know who would sell it.

BTW- I called around to parts stores. The cheapest I found ANY of the above cores was the 199 core for $32 from autozone, out in BFE from where I live, so the DD unit is still a better buy. I will try a few other stores tomorrow, but unless I can find one for under $30 (I want the 342 most of all), I'm just gonna order that stuff for $68 shipped. Its not a bad deal IMO, it includes the tubing and dual fan shroud too, with the 1/2" fittings pre installed.

Doesn't look like any of the folks that own and operate one are dissatisfied w/ theirs. From everything I've read, the pump dissipating heat is minimal between models, and can kind of be tossed aside. Many folks posted higher models and "just buy this and that," but I don't want my cooling budget to be 30% of my entire build! Higher flow would be nice, but what can I say.. I'm on a budget!

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Fair point. The Danner does put a little more heat into the loop than other pumps, but not by a significant margin. In terms of flow, the Danner puts out about 10.5 ft of head...as good if not better than the more expensive 12v pumps. Just saying...you're not really losing anything in terms of flowrates.

Sorry about the stir...whenever I recommend this pump, I get bashed by a slew of people who have never tried it. *shrug*

buy the danner mag 3 from marinedepot.com, for 45 or so shipped, it will do 200gph at 5 feet of head, or 375 at zero feet, i use one, and it really isn't loud at all, i have it sitting on a cotton rag, so it isn't even properly dampened, and it is only a very quiet humm, the fans i have are louder than that, and they are essentially 7 volted.

the heat the danner puts in is negligeble, in an 80 degree room right now, i have my cpu at 107 degrees, and it puts out about 95 watts or so, with a maze 4 block try the caprice classic heater core, it is a 2x120 variety, and you don't need to even put barbs on it, as the pipes are bent nicely right out of the box, a little boiling water and some half inch pipe, and hose clamps, and your set

basically the danner is a great pump, will never fail you, adn if you want 2x120, look to the caprice classic

johan851 said:

Have you ever owned one? I don't get it. Once the system is bled, the Mag3 is silent if you set it on a mousepad. Just needs a little vibration dampening. The heat it adds isn't bad either. Mine has lasted two years and shows no sign of slowing down. It's a great pump.

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Your right, but I do know he can get a BIPII for 53$ and a ddc for 72$. compared to a HC for 69$ and a mag for 47$. The BIP and ddc system wins hands down.

10$ more will make a phenominal difference in both performance as well as noise, astetics and ease of use.

Really I have a hard time trying to swallow recommending the mags to most users.

edit:BTW cool technica.com

ls7corvete said:

Your right, but I do know he can get a BIPII for 53$ and a ddc for 72$. compared to a HC for 69$ and a mag for 47$. The BIP and ddc system wins hands down.

10$ more will make a phenominal difference in both performance as well as noise, astetics and ease of use.

Really I have a hard time trying to swallow recommending the mags to most users.

edit:BTW cool technica.com

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The $69 from DD breaks down like this:
$35 for the Fedco-199 Core w/ 1/2" barbs prefitted
$13 for the 2x120mm shroud
$10 for 10' Clearflex-60 1/2" tube
+ $10 shipping
So its not like I'm paying $70 for an old car HC. I think it's a good deal when you consider the following:

I spent all morning calling around to auto parts stores. I keep reading ppl saying Autozone sells the '77 Bonneville core (w/ and w/o AC) for like $18. Well not here in Portland, OR! In fact, the cheapest I found it was $25. Then I would have to buy proper barbs, plus flux core to fit them. What I really wanted was the 2-342 core (69-72 chev pickup w/ ac), but the cheapest I found that was $39. I think ppl's guides need to be updated, as these cores cannot be found for under $30, even the chevette core. Cheapest that was $31.99. I called about 10 different chains and local stores. Basically it made me lean heavily towards just getting the whole pre-fab setup from DD. I'll get to bang and saw metal later when it comes to fitting everything into the case, which I may be doing a lateral blow-through setup. I'm still looking for a good deal on a chieftec or chenming tower case that will fit a 2x120 core up front and meets some other criteria.

I've had a recent offer on a Hydor L30 pump for a good price, which I will probably take. The numbers on it are nice, and best of all its small