Swiftech, D-Tek, DD, WW, Maze, G4, BIX ... *newbie's head explodes*

I've read the guides. I've sorted through posts. I've reread guides (most of which are at least a few months old, if not several). I've looked in the classifieds.

And I can honestly say that I still don't have the first clue where to start building a water cooling setup that will be at least "better than average" for cooling a San Diego 4000+ and two MSI 6800GT's.

For the CPU blocks, I've heard good things about Swiftech, but then good things about WhiteWater, too, and finally, great things about G4's and G5's. To make things more confusing, several products are actually offered by different vendors under different names, or a combination of names. So far, though, I think I've nailed down the G4 as being one of the top performers for its price. Would that be a good assumption? Especially since they'll be available commercially in the near future?

Pumps - not a damn clue on. Still researching, but I'd like to go decently top-end ... something that will pump enough for the CPU and two GPU's easily. Would a single pump be best, or a relay of 2 (or more) smaller pumps at possibly cheaper prices individually that would outperform one single unit? And do you typically power these from your primary PSU or an alternate one (and I know standard AC pumps are available, too, but I'd like to keep the setup totally enclosed in my case. Case is 24" tall, some monster no-name brand I bought back in '99, so it should fit without too much trouble as I have tons of room).

Cores/Shrouds - Looked at the BIX3 and TC 120.3 ... and then look at Weapon's custom cores and shrouds. Is the performance difference of either the two commercial cores going to be anything near enough to justify the extra cost over a '77 Bonneville A/C Core with a Weapon 302 Shroud, buying the items direct from Weapon? So far, he looks like one of the best sources. Again, please offer any input into better choices (be it from Weapon's offerings, or other ones), but know that I don't have the time and tools for too much DIY cutting, brazing, modding, etc. Not that I'm helpless or can't do a touch here or there - I'm just swamped most of the time. As an addendum, I'd probably be using Panaflo 120mm fans, either High's or Ultra's (got some Mediums lying around that do ~ 86CFM, but I don't know if that would be enough).

GPU coolers - The 6800GT's I bought came with these: http://www.chillblast.com/customer/product.php?productid=390

They are 10mm inlet/outlet sizes, however, and I wasn't sure how stepping up to 1/2" would affect performance or bog down the rest of the loop. Would I be better off to sell these blocks and get a Maze4, or a NV68? Something else? Again, suggestions most welcome.

Resevoirs & Tees - Still don't quite get how to run and fill the system just using a T, but it seems a lot of people prefer that.

Water wetters, dyes, tubing - Think I can figure these out without too much trouble on my own.

The WC Loop - This is the one thing I need to read up on a bit more, as I've been pouring over the parts, but haven't figured out what the best way to setup a CPU, GPU, GPU cooling loop is. If you have any quick links or advice, feel free to share. I'll keep searching for information on my own, as well.

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So, there's the rundown from a newbie who's head is about to explode after the past 48 hours. The reason for my overload is that I want to have everything I need (aside from the G4, which I realize I probably can't get my hands on right at the moment, if that is indeed the best solution for me) by Saturday, July 16th. I'll be out of town for a week starting next Wednesday doing mission work, and in the meantime, work has been absolutely nuts and I come home and try to read up on WC only to feel stressed out from the information overload I've endured during the day.

Thanks for any help, pointers, tips, and recommendations you can provide. I'm always one to try and sort stuff out on my own before asking for guidance, and I think I've reached the point now where I need some honest opinions and suggestions.

Thanks,
Dave

EDIT: For a little more information about the system (after looking at the sticky "how to ask WC questions" again ), I don't mind cutting the case a bit, the mobo is a DFI SLI-DR, and the PSU is an OCZ 520W. Noise is a slight consideration (I don't want to be at the same dB level I'd be running a Vantec tornado), but absolute silence is no concern. I'm also the type who would rather spend $30 more for something he'd really like rather than cut corners and just be adequately satisfied.

I have a few thoughts for you PerlAddict.

For cpu blocks, swiftecs are a good value, but the G4 is a nice block indeed. Def can't go wrong there. The TDX is also a popular recommendation.

As far as pumps, the D5 seems to be the creme around these parts. This pump has good flow, good head, and runs off your psu power.

As for cores, I def DO NOT think its worth the commercial x3 radiators over a weapon core. Those heater cores are very nice. I think the 2 would yeild similar temps, but the core being much cheaper.

hope my suggestions help

a BIXII is now cheaper than a Weapon HC - www.dangerdenstore.com has em for totally dirt cheap

Most certainly. Would the G4 outperform a TDX? The Swiftechs have been presented more of a "bang for your buck" product from what I've read, but it seems that superior cooling can be purchased without breaking the bank (I talked to Cathar about his G5's, and while they sound absolutely amazing, $210+ for a CPU block WOULD exceed my price range a tad. But I humbly bow to their design and those who can justify buying them, or can't justify buying them but do it anyway. )

Who makes the D5? Is that going to be the DangerDen one seen here: http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=175&cat=23&bestseller

That's actually the one I was looking at earlier today, but I had no frame of reference to compare it against, really, so I was still looking.

I think I'm sold on Weapon's core and shroud setups - I can't imagine that much else can match them as far as ready-to-go products.

Any thoughts on the GPU blocks? Since I'm going to be running SLI (with 6800GTs for now, and then probably again when the generation after the 7800's hits the market) I want to make sure I have plenty of flow and cooling power with two cards being so close together. And if those Waterchill ones aren't my best bet, I'd like to figure out what to swap them with.

Thanks for the help; I sincerely appreciate it!

Indeed the commercial rads came down in price, I completely forgot about that, thanks Sneaky.

I think he was eyeing a x3 radiator, which is still upwards of $80. Nice rads, but still a chunk of change.

Don't x3 radiators have a slim performance advantage over a x2 heatercore?

EDIT: (to avoid 2 posts in a row)
Yes, that is the pump.

Yes the G4 will out perform the TDX. The D5 is made by Laing, and yes thats the one at DangerDen. As for a GPU block in SLI go for the low pro Maze 4 Acetal top For tubing I would say get Masterkleer 7/16"ID 5/8"OD. Can be found over at McMaster on page 82 for 37 cents a foot

citronym said:

Don't x3 radiators have a slim performance advantage over a x2 heatercore?

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I saw the same temps go from a dual 120mm HC to a Thermo-chill 120.3. At the time I used the same pump, block, CPU( with same OC), same amount of tubing and the same fans.

I know the feeling. I was the same way starting out with watercooling.
Pump- Laing D5 has excellent reviews. I am using an Aquaextreme 50z and am very satisified with it.

CPU- The Swiftech blocks are very good performers, are solid, and are reasonably priced. The G4 and G5 blocks are the cream of the crop, but are only produced in limited runs so unless you can find them used, they are out.

I don't know if your GPU waterblocks are going to fit in a SLI setup. Most here use the low profile Maze 4. If they do fit and you don't want to pay for some more blocks, you can run them in parallel so as not to restrict flow too much. I personally would not spend the money on the NV68 as it is specific to this video card only and once you change cards later, you will have to change blocks as well. With something like the Maze 4 or the blocks you have you can probably just change the hold downs.

The BIXIII or Thermochill 120.3 will normally outperform the dual heatercore, depending of course on the fans. The BIX rads are currently more attractive as Danger Den just drastically dropped the prices. They also can be easier to mount than a heatercore. I had a heatercore and then went the BIXIII route and was happy with it as I could use more fans at lower voltages and still cool well which made them quieter.

The t-line is really quite simple. You just put a three way t fitting usually on the pump inlet line somewhere and then run a line up a few inches and put a barb on the end with a screw cap on the end. You can then fill through the end barb of the t-line. T-lines are nice in that they don't take up much room.

As far as setting up the loop, usually you just route the tubing the most efficient and least complicated way posssible.

voigts said:

The G4 and G5 blocks are the cream of the crop, but are only produced in limited runs so unless you can find them used, they are out.

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Sorry to say but your wrong. They are getting ready to mass produce the G4's. Stay tuned to find out where and when.

Basically, you will see similar performance between the WW, mcp6000 series, TDX and G4.

With the high speed fans go with a BIXII, price just dropped so thats a good deal. If you want to cut some noise get some slow fans and a BIPII. You could go with a HC but you will get better performance from BI. Either way fit as much shroud on as you can.

Pump MCP655(d5), MCP600, MCP350(ddc) are all good. You can consider the c-systems mag, we dont have much reviews/performance/reliabilty info on it yet but I would get it if I was rebuilding my loop. for 120v, ehiem, simply the best IMHO.

Of coarse you could have looked at the stickies and found this out. It really is as simple as what I stated above. You could go and look up all the quircks of the above components but in the end you will end up with maybe a measureable difference, but not knowticebly different IMHO.

The MCP655 is a very nice pump from what I've heard when talking with a few of the guys who frequent here & OCAU.

I know the current Waterchill blocks I have for the GPU's will fit in an SLI setup on the DFI, because the person I bought them from used them on his setup after finding out his two NV5's WOULDN'T fit. At 10mm, the inlets are just over 3/8's of an inch. Would stepping that up to 1/2" tubing so it matched the rest of the system be an issue? As for the Masterkleer 7/16"ID 5/8"OD, is that a fairly standard size I'll be able to size up easily to the blocks and pump? Because I was originally planning on using 1/2", but if there's an noticeable advantage to the 7/16" I don't have a problem going that route. I just want to make sure the tubing will match up to all the components.

Looking at the BIX2 and BIX3, I think I may pay the little extra for the III, as it's not too much more expensive and still a good chunk less than the TC 120.3. Do I still need (or rather, would I benefit) from a shroud with these, as well?

And finally, given the design differences in the WhiteWater and Maze blocks, plus the TDX I've heard about (as well as any other block, really) what are my BEST performing choices aside from the G4/G5 that I could pick up, and then which brand (keep hearing Swiftech mentioned, didn't know what D-Tek and DD had comparable and who was tops, in your opinion).

So right now you've confirmed my thoughts on the D5, and I think I'll pick up the BIX3. So that still leaves tubing choices (1/2", 7/16", others?), CPU block (really don't want to skimp here if I don't have to), and GPU blocks (Waterchill, unless you think Maze4 would perform better).

Is there any advantage to having a resevoir over a t-line? Disadvantage is obviously space that it takes up, but any other disadvantages?

And finally, clamps and sealant to leak-proof it -- where's the best place to pick those up?

Of coarse you could have looked at the stickies and found this out. It really is as simple as what I stated above. You could go and look up all the quircks of the above components but in the end you will end up with maybe a measureable difference, but not knowticebly different IMHO.

Click to expand...

Like I said, I read through them. But when you call a pump a Liang, a D5, and a MCP655, and then start branding them with different vendor names - it's a bit overwhelming for newcomers. And that's just the pump. ONE pump. Put 'em all together and whaddya get? A massive migraine at the start, that's what.

You have to remember that terminology you've been using so long that it comes as second nature makes about as much sense to a newcomer as me telling me girlfriend I located the IP of the HTTP request to my URL that generated a 404 error using a tracert to count the hops back through the DNS to the point of origin, and then ran a WHOIS to find out the users ISP and what nameserver the request came from. Know what I mean, Vern?

Right now my whole system uses 1/2" barbs and I'm using 7/16" tubing. Here take a look at a post by Cathar on 7/16" tubing On the rads shrouds also help, altho I ahve never seen on for the BIX or the BIP. As for the block a Swiftech 6002 is a good bang for the buck. As for a res vs a t-line, a res bleeds alot faster then a t-line. I've used both in my time but think a t-line just looks better. As for clamps go over to your local Home Depot and get some metal worm clamps. Remember place the tubing over the barb then take a piece of black electrical tape and wrap around the tubing then place the worm clamp on and tighten. Doing this will keep the clamp from cutting in to the tubing.

heard alot of good things about Masterkleer, is the colored tubing any good?

Thanks, WK! Think I'll go with the t-line then, and I'll check out that info on 7/16" tubing when I get to work in the morning.

s random said:

heard alot of good things about Masterkleer, is the colored tubing any good?

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Are you talking about PrimoFlex? IF so then yes it's good alittle bulky compared to the Masterkleer 7/16" tubing.

If you want to either spend the money or time, you will absolutely benefit from a shroud. No argument there. You can make them out of anything.

Clamps, you can get the small worm drive clamps, commonly used on automotive hoses. Don't remember the size. Available at Home Depot and auto parts stores.

If you need sealant, you can use silicone, but what part are you sealing? If you are sealing threaded barbs, you want teflon tape, also at HD.

Here is a few pics of my rig first is with 7/16"ID 5/8"OD tubing and the second set is with 1/2"ID and 3/4"OD.


Pic 1
Pic 2



Pic 1
Pic 2

Swiftechs version of the G4 is at $75. If you are willing to spend that on a block, im sure you wont be dissapointed. As for pumps, the MCP655 (D5) is a great pump. Ive got one, not sure how it performs but its super quiet. You cant hear a thing unless you put your ear on it.

Which Swiftech model is the G4-comparable one? I'd like to keep the CPU block under $100, so that's nicely in range.

The new Swiftech Storm is the G4. Just go to Swiftech click on liquid cooling products, then click on Storm under CPU water-blocks.