-350f cooling?

[eivanho]

:D
I've discovered a new method of cooling any gas, liquid, or oil with what I call a thermal transformer. Without getting too deep, it simply cools with massive force, manipulating k meson particles themselves, soley responsible for the heat spectrum. This, in theory, can cool any chip to -300f or more perhaps, but would this be too cold? If it is, perhaps the chip(s) themselves can be engineered to work with this. I don't beleive it is patentable, since it makes direct current by transformation, and is outlawed in nato countries for overefficiency by the financial upheaval law drafted under nato treaty.(long story) Outside of this problem, anyone could build this device for themself, though not to be made available for commercial sale. Reply pm for skematics. Costs appx. 4 to 5k to construct #1, w/o mass production.

[PanteraGSTK]

Are you for real?

[Amedeo602]

the height of geekdom = building one of these :)


PS: Welcome to the forums oh he who promises so much! (Mayhaps this is the one spoken of in Legend... "The Cooler" ! (Sorry i've been playing too many RPGs lately...)


but thinking critically....if you *discovered* it then why is it outlawed by NATO? if you recently discovered this then NATO wouldn't know a thing about it......

[Warlord2]

yup I pretty sure thats too cold for any computer chip:D

[Crazy Jayhawk]

http://s.drunkencell.com/uh.gif

[Christoph]

Sounds like the ultimate ultimate.:D I'm not sure that it's possible to go too cold, although it's certainly counterintuitive.
The nerd in me wants to see the specs, but the banker in me is o trying to kill the nerd. 4-5k:eek: wow that'd be fun to brag about though. Maybe I'll email AMD an see if that's even work,

[joshiieeii]

Ummmmm..... could us non-technical types get that is plain English please, hehe:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)

[Thelemac]

Definately too cold. After about -50C you're looking at killing your chip...maybe not right away, but not too far down the road. When it gets that cold the silicone has contracted so much that it's pulling apart.

That sounds really sweet though....you could probably use it to coole several at once or something...an SMP cooler, if you will. :)

[SteenkyBastage]

i beg to differ, it is possible to get too cold....below absolute zero is definitely too cold (and also impossible). heh... but in reality -300F is probably a long shot on the overkill idea. if i remember right, reading an article about people cooling with LN2, their processors were crapping out at much much warmer temps.

granted, i've never tried...so i could be completely wrong. i'll try to dig up that article on LN2 cooling and post it.

[RangerJoe34]

sounds quite interesting, but what i am wondering.....why the hell would any person in the right mind spend 4-5k on cooling his computer to the max??? its WAY too much overkill, but if you just wanna do this for fun, to see what this will do, and you have the money, then i say go for it, sounds neat

later dudes

http://www.octools.com/index.cgi?caller=supercool.html

check out mission submersible number 2.....

[Ebola]

isnt absolute zero arround -250F

i believe it is impossible to get -350F

who uses F degrees when speaking of computers anyways. blasphemy.

[fatshlink]

Originally posted by Ebola
isnt absolute zero arround -250F

i believe it is impossible to get -350F

who uses F degrees when speaking of computers anyways. blasphemy.

ARE YOU SMOKING CRACK:confused: sorry
i believe absolute zero is a little less than -250

[Christoph]

Absolute zero is -273.15 *C or 0 *K. Atoms stop moving at that point, and I think that metals lose all resistance to the flow of electrons, becoming superconductors. If he could do that for a measly 4-5k, he'd win the Nobel prize

[fuzzba11]

Well, manipulating k mesons is tricky business, it's not like you can just add a few more fans :p

Unless there was some other experiment you know of to manipulate them like you're talking about that has inexpensive equipment, then please do share. I forget the details of my quantum physics, but do share.

[eivanho]

I find so often that fools will post things they know little or nothing about! in 1978 in boulder Colorado, the coldest temp recorded in a lab was -273celcius, which is equal to -459f.!!! My device reached appx -332f, but am pretty sure it could have done -350 with higher rpm's of meson induction. I'm giving free plans for this device for anyone interested in just looking or etc....; request from mw0440@yahoo.com

[Thelemac]

I have to admit...I don't really know a ton about this stuff...

How is it possible to have a recording of temperature (the average kinetic energy of a group of atoms) go below zero?

I believe that it's possible, but I wasn't aware of negetive kinetic energy. How does that work?

And how in blazes can you record that?

[Christoph]

Hey, you're from Oregon!
I think I'll build one. Has anyone got $5,000 I could have?

[eivanho]

Hey! didn't notice. I was just through Springfield. Was visiting some machinists in Eugene for this new project I'm working on. Fun as heck driving through the McKenzie pass in a Vette! Think I'd rather do it in a Porsche though. Can't judge corner of road too well. It's full of sudden sharp curves, rocks in the road, even an occasional water run, so it's all the fun of a German Autobohn...(did I spell that right?).....

[VashTheStampede]

Autobahn :)

~RT~

[Ebola]

so i'm not a chemist. hehe. :rolleyes:

[r0ckstarbob]

very very slick.

[r0ckstarbob]

overkill? likely. chrimeny... might actually have to INSULATE your board with styrofoam to keep it within operational parameters!!!

now isn't THAT somethin to think about???

[docJ]

You may have broken a few laws of physics, if you are not careful the physics police may come and take you away.

[eivanho]

Broken laws of physics? We used a low range thermal detector for the temp, which I only hope was accurate. In any case, it seems pointless to try this on chips, as someone reminded -that the silicon will contract, obviously breaking it. There is another possibility however; the device's cooling surface is a gold electrocoat on a sphere. If, in the future, conductive polymer chips can be made (poly carbon nanotubes), they can be made on the surface of this thing, and should have no problem with temperatures. Suppose this would be cheap as heck once the xformer cost might come down w/mass production. Anyone think this might work?

[-=HN=- Wild9]

well im guessing you built this thing b/c you mentioned it in before posts, got a pic handy that you could post. if your working with such high tech stuff im sure you own a digital camera, most ppl do, just take a pic, i would like to see it.

[Christoph]

Wait a second, does that thing use CFCs?

[eivanho]

I'm posting a page for the skematics so I don't have to keep replying to e mails. It will be at http://www.geocities.com/mw0440/thermaltransformer.html

[fuzzba11]

Just "attach file" to your message, your link isn't working

[Crash893]

broken link

sounds like bunch of therortical phisics to me

witch sound good in theory but im not sure if i would work

if you "make" -350 some where you have to put the the (350+outside temp above 0+procces temp)


alot of these things look good on paper but dont work in real life

but all means prove me wrong im kind of wanting to see it

[Christoph]

What I meant was that if this thing didn't use CFCs, couldn't you use a scaled back version for environmentally-freindly industrial cooling (like a walk-in freezer).

[flounder43]

I can't believe I wasted my time reading this post, what a bunch of crap.

Hey, I wasted more time replying to it...

[YMAN]

I have to agree with Thelemac that the chip will slowly
die when you go below -50F mainly because the heating
and cooling. (on/off/on/off)

However the chip will function with -500F liquid nitro cooling.
I am sure it will with -350!
Just, What about condensation?

In my opinion you are going overboard unless you got lots
of extra $$$ to play with!

[Thelemac]

Originally posted by YMAN

However the chip will function with -500F liquid nitro cooling.


Not for long. It isn't the heating and cooling that kills it. It's the fact that after a certain temperature the silicone can't contract anymore without pulling at the other contracting silicone. Since it's all pulling at each other...it pulls apart.

Besides, that temp for liquid nitrogen is ridiculous. Nitrogen would be solid well before that temp...

[Christoph]

Solid nitrogen.:rolleyes: That's almost as crazy as cooling a CPU to -350 *F.

[YMAN]

Thelemac, sorry my statement about liquid nitro was a bit vague
but what I meant was.....
Another post thought that a processor will not function
past absolute 0, my point is that it will...But not for very long!!!
You are absolutly correct in that a cpu will slowly die
after -50F.

[YMAN]

I was a little off:
Liquid Nitrogen is about 395F/200C

[RangerJoe34]

alrighty, lemmy break it down for y'all

1. Once a chip passes -150c the entire computer will be ****** up, keys will not type the right letters, you wont be able to read anything on the screen.

2. You cannot go below ABSOLUTE zero. This is where all molecules stop moving. Hence ABSOLUTE.

3. It is impossible to reach absolute zero. Or at least at this point in time, no one has the technology to cool something THAT much.

4. Just like IdeaMagnate said, Liquid Nitrogen cannot turn into a solid.

5. Whoever will spend more than a few hundred dollars for a baddass watercooling kit/air cooled case should not be aloud to handle money. It is just a computer.

6. Anyone of is actually thinking that this would be possible is an idiot, and i hate stupid people, so shut the **** UP. You have no idea what you are talking about. So please save people like me with a crappy modem from taking longer to load this page, because you are just making there be more info to load.

lata

*This post edited by forum moderator*

We don't allow swearing here. Please don't do it again. You're also coming dangerously close to the line of flaming people. Watch that in the future.

Thelemac

[Crash893]

i think you cold do it but you would have to bring it down really really really slow

[Mac42]

YMAN:
I was a little off:
Liquid Nitrogen is about 395F/200C


Huh... that's a little hot for Nitrogen to be a liquid isn't it?

Yes, 395F = ~201.6...C

but -395F = ~-237.2...C


Anyway, just for random knowledge:

Nitrogen melts/freezes at -210.01° C (-346.02° F), boils/liquifies at -195.79° C (-320.42° F)

Absolute zero = -460F/-273.3...C

[flounder43]

OK people, this post was, from the beginning, a JOKE...Ok?

It was not serious. I don't know who this fellow was, but he sure had some of you going.

Didn't you people take chemistry?

[RangerJoe34]

who cares if he was joking or not, i just wanted to say that there are way too many stupid people out there.

lata

[flounder43]

I just read through this again, and noticed that this fellow "eivanho" kept up with his crap. He even gave link, at first non-working, which I now notice IS working and full of hocus pocus. I say it is time for "eivanho" to go and quit wasting our time.

[Christoph]

First of all, I didn't mean to imply that nigrogen can't be solid. It melts at 63.34 *K according to Chemicool (www.chemicool.com), therefore it has to be solid at colder temperatures. I meant that that's an unthinkably cold temperature.
Secondly, I don't think that he was making up that stuff about K mesons. I found several links to quantun physics sites, and I think that anyone smart enough to know about K mesons (I didn't) would have better things to do than this.
If you don't know, you ignorance i this field is acceptable, but don't talk about waht you don't know about.
I don't doubt that eivanhoe could go over our most of our heads in 10 words or less.
Thanks for your ignorance.:mad:
I might know less than you, but I try to make sure that I have a basis for what I say.

[Mac42]

Whether you believe it's possible or not, it was still a fun discussion to read. And btw, if you feel that these people are "stupid" then that's fine, but please don't start flaming them and cursing about it on the board (we do have younger readers here). Heck, I remember back when people talking about the possibility of a 600Mhz computer were considered "morons". Discussing ideas is never a bad thing, no matter how far fetched.

[flounder43]

Have you seen this guy's web page? First of all, he doesn't have an ".edu" web page or address. He is just a joker, or crazy, possibly both.

Second, look at his crap. He thinks that the Earth "flips" on its axis every few thousand years. As proof, he offers evidence such as the fact that wooly mamoths were not in fact arctic animals and their presence in Siberia as frozen fossils proves the "flipping".

His page is overflowing with vacuous blather, and I truly hope that nobody is intimidated by this charlatan's use of apparently complicated physics vocabulary.

***Finally, no offense to anyone, I know you were just going along with this thread's subject matter. Nevertheless, let's get rid of this menace.

[flounder43]

One clarification: what I meant about the lack of the ".edu" address is just that I would expect a link to some sort of research institute, or maybe even a company, not "geocities". That is all.

Thanks.

[Christoph]

Alright, no flaming people. I'll politely disagree and move on.
Example; flounder43, why do you need an .edu website to be credible? Also, don't be so quick to something utterly counterintuitive. Ask Galileo about new theories about the universe.
I can't even follow some of the stuff on his site, (but it's too late at night for heavy stuff like that), but I could follow that you picked a plausable and simple proof to dispute. How about disputing that they had to be quick frozen, or that they had buttercups in their mouths. Also, to properly dispute, you need independent confirmation. You'll notice that at the end of that section he gives a link of explicitly unconfirmed evidence. Such posts indicate intellectual lazieness, and I recommend a quick google search before your next refutation.

I'm sorry if I crossed the line between attacking you and attacking your idea. Indicate where I messed up, and I'll gladly edit it out; I want this to be thoughtful, not spiteful.

Edit; I didn't see your previous post until too late. Ignore the part about .edu.

edit2: duh, don't say "stupid" about other people

[RangerJoe34]

alright, the dude sent me a link to his page
http://www.geocities.com/mw0440/thermaltransformer.html
right there

[r0ckstarbob]

um okay RangerJoe and the crew

just threw this guys site at a few friends of mine - a couple of PhD's (one guy's is in Physics and the others is in Quantum Mathematics), both professors here in Seattle at the University of Washington in Seattle.

this guys on the money. he's telling the truth. granted it's an extremely dumbed-down version of the process and what's behind it but they say that the things he's talking about have been done in the labs at the UW. they said that, granted it's a little out in left field but these theories are not new and not without considerable merit....

and you're reacting with the sort of paranoid knee jerk reaction of every boon hick hillbilly out there when presented with a concept that you don't immediately understand or grasp.

fear, paranoia, and anger... over a concept that you don't understand... it's absolutely ridiculous. not understanding doesn't make you stupid but your reactions are way out of proportion to the levity of this issue, either way.

ever see an initial concept sketch of something on a napkin that later turns into drafting plans and eventually gets built - like say a Ferrari? (which incidentally DID start out on a bar napkin)... this is a lot like that. it's just a concept sketch on a napkin so jack the smack talker can understand what he's saying and get the general idea of what he's talking about. thats ALL this is

"I have made this website easy to understand for both the complete novice and advanced physicist"

it's just a concept sketch yo, not the whole ball of wax, so chill. this guys not the mad scientist you'd have him to be.

and for the record, Eivanho isn't the first kid to forward the theory that the earth flips on it's axis every thousand years or so. in fact he's FAR from the first, and there's alot of evidence to point to that theory. the fact of the matter is though that we don't know, we weren't there... we can only speculate. his theory has as much credence as alot of other stuff.

native Americans thought Europeans had magic. turned out all they had were guns and gonorrhea.

we have hydrogen powered engines but do not use them. we have cars that run on water but do not produce them. we have walkman batteries that will last decades but will never see the store shelf. we have dishwashers that do not use water or detergent but will never see the light of day. there are ALOT of things out there that could revolutionize life as we know it, but that for economical reasons, you and i won't see until our great grandchildren walk the earth. this isn't conspiracy theory, this is economics and it's a fact of life.

just try to take a step back, breathe a second, and chill. all is good. this is just a discussion forum and nothing to get worked up about. flaming people doesn't do anything except make you a reactionary. if you can beat the physics point for point, then do it. if not, shut yer yap. maybe you DO know more then me and know more then this guy does. if so, then throw down and lets hear it. all i know for a fact is that eivanho knows a lot more then i do about this stuff - that's why i ran it by Ron and Kris to take a look at and to get their opinions. i can't defend the guy and won't try to, but if you can't argue his points with something more substantial then some smack talking, then just give it the head nod (or the head shake as the case may be) and move off, no harm done. torching this guy straight out of the chute is definitely in bad form and definitely counterproductive, especially in a forum dedicated to exploring new possibilities in computer cooling techniques, however unorthodox.

welcome to the forums Eivanho. if you have anything to add here or anywhere else, please feel free. last time i checked, everyone's opinions and input were welcome here.

[r0ckstarbob]

on a side note, while cooling your cpu to -350F might be overkill, i'd rather have to worry about keeping the board warm enough to use instead of cold enough to overclock, any day of the week and twice on sundays. :)

[lennytiger]

Originally posted by IdeaMagnate
Absolute zero is -273.15 *C or 0 *K. Atoms stop moving at that point, and I think that metals lose all resistance to the flow of electrons, becoming superconductors. If he could do that for a measly 4-5k, he'd win the Nobel prize

Absolutely right but Silicon cracks at this temp so you would need some way of keeping it at a safe temp!!

[Christoph]

Thanks bob! Sounds like what I would have done had I known someone with an appropriate PhD. I'm glad to see that this flaming can finally come to an end as far as those theories are concrened.

[Random Nonsense]

ok lets say this is real, why would it be banned from being sold commercially? and what the hell is nato to do with it anyway? i personally dont think its possible for $4000 maybe $40 000 or $400 000. anyway its all irrelevent as it would destroy a CPU really quick if you ever used it and thats what this is all about really!

[flounder43]

Ok, I am not flaming anyone, just want to get to the bottom of this post. Really, no flaming here, but this is really bugging me. There is just too much nonsense...

"Financial Upheaval Law"? NATO regulating patents? What?

Come on. Nobody has outlawed "direct current by transformation". Everyone has a power supply in your computer, right? Guess what? It produces direct current by transforming it from alternating current...AC to DC...easy.

K mesons "soley responsible for the heat spectrum"? No, I don't think so. First of all, it is called the electromagnetic spectrum. Heat is, more or less, energy at the lower wavelengths. Just do a search for a document anywhere on the internet that contains the phrase "heat spectrum" and "meson" in it... I did - None.

There are a lot of theories in quantum physics that involve heat and mesons and quarks, etc. However, we are being hood-winked with this post.

I welcome responses, especially from the original author...

Again, I am not flaming, I just want some cohesive theory with a factual basis.

thanks all,

eric

[Crash893]

3. It is impossible to reach absolute zero. Or at least at this point in time, no one has the technology to cool something THAT much.

i thought a bunch of guys at mit got something down to absolute zero if not it was really really close ( granted it was only a couple atoms) it was useing lasers i think.( i can explain it in more depth but ill hold off if you want to know pm me)

i think its funny becucase alot of people here are takeing this like a religous debate. a rather geeky religous debate.

i think its bs

but a think the theory is pretty neat
we can dream cant we

also if it was real there would be a working link

also if you dont like stupid topics mabey you shouldnt post in them

[Lynx]

This guy is talking bull. I know Electronics and there is no reason why this could create and electric current. And NATO is a military organisation/alliance it has no juristiction over business maters. Anyway basicaly what he is saying is if you spin this specialy shaped peice of copper it cools one end. BULL****! This guy is talking crap. Anyway if this was real it would have been discovered by a scientist and published. Put "thermal transformer" in any search engine and all I got was something about Microwaves. (The type you cook with so dont get excited.)

[eivanho]

The one we built had it's temp measured directly on it's surface. I have no clue how far it could travel, it all depends upon insulation; I would imagine , in theory though, that a magnetically suspended and positively ionized system could maintain refrigeration given walls that have a vacuum(no air inside).
As far as industrial cooling, that would be very expensive. The only way around it I'd imagine, is if I could re-engineer the thing to work with no moving parts, since the rpm's were it's limitation , and eventually it's end when the shaft began to bend suddenly by the inner bearing. If anyone makes one of these, suggest trying some strong magnetic frictionless bearings instead.
The device, if made solid state, could compress much more, but I've been working on other things the last few years/ ie; ion transformers which manipulate boson particles, instead of mesons.

[Lynx]

Mate can you please actualy respond to the comments we made not just witter on about crap.

P.S. There are no such things as frictionless bearings!

[cowanrg]

well guys, having some engineering and physics knowledge, i know it is theoretically (if not physicallly possible).

just recently, 2 professors recently recieved the noble prize for phsyics, for making a superatom. this atom can ONLY be created in very very cold temps. (close to 0K, absolute 0).

now, the temp was 1 nano-kelvin (10^-9), OR 0.00000001 K.

its possible, and his plans look way too simple to work, there is more to it. but, it could work, if he is only posting 1/3 of the actual plans :-)

check out germanphysiks website. speaker manufacturer. they make a speaker that "induces waveforms" rather than using a cone to push air. it doesnt radiate air, it changes the properties of the air to "make' sound.

there is crazy stuff out there.

[ptcg]

Actually there are frictionless bearings.. They're called magnets.. If you can suspend the shaft inside a magnet, it can roatate freely with no friction at all.. That is what he was suggesting.

I for one would like to try to make this thing & see if it really works.. I'm the supervisor in a machine shop & I run CNC's day in/day out.. If I had the complete plans for this thing, I could probably make all the parts needed for it.. Even if I could make a miniature one just to get some temp readings from..

To be honest, I know almost nothing about this area of physics, and have no idea at all 'how' this contraption would work, but I would be very interested in seeing it work!

I'll have to read this guys site again & see if I can figure this thing out.

[Crash893]

im not saying it can be done.

but im giving the BS stamp

post some pics of it if it exists

[Monaco]

I want to thank eivanho for a really good laugh! I was taking it sort of seriously until he started talking about boson manipulation.:D

The wole time I was reading, I had this huge feeling of deja vu. Then it hit me- I've read the same gobbledygook in other places, but it wasn't about cooling- it was about turning lead into gold. At home. hee hee!!:D

PS anybody read the rest of the stuff there? Like the "anti-gravity page"? He based that whole page on magnetic monopoles- as any Niven fan knows, those are both amazingly useful and completely nonexistant. The cooler he describes looks remarkably similar to the AG device, also.

It seems he wants to talk theory and hey, I'm totally down- that's how we learn! Here's my theory- until I see some photos I believe this to be utterly bogus. And even then I'll want more evidence. It's not so much the device itself, it's the manner of presentation. Sounds like so many e-meter explanations to me......

What was it again? "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is?" Ah yes, that was it.....

I know I hold no degrees in physiscs, but I have a keen nose for snake oil IMHO. Honestly- I hope I'm wrong and he's right, as this would be a major development in several related scientific fields, as well as new CPU cooling tech! Either way, +10 points for eivanho for originality and creativity!

[Crash893]

you can tell every one wanted it to be true becuase look how many posts there are

to bad.

[eivanho]

WELL, there we go again. Caught another one who thinks he knows everything. Consider Zero-Point-Energy. In Australia, hundreds of vehicles are running from a device which uses the same exact principle of nonlinear metal layers- only in a tube(which is not as efficient). Consider that it uses water as fuel, and has the same water as exhaust. Consider how the hyrdrogen must become gaseous, ie; by positive ionization. Now consider that to get force, you must give force. The force given is made through the metal layers, forcing the hydrogen to ionize into light gas. It's not magic, and is not unexplained, it's quite simply ion field transformation without question! The car is really driven by the force of ion transformation, so why not consider the possibility of thermal transformation? The car's exhaust can reroute back into the intake. The thermal transformer simply transforms kinetic movements of mesons, into direct current. It was by the way, the surface of the device itself which reached -332f, not surrounding gas, so no, it is not too good to be true thank you.

[Thelemac]

For some of you that have researched these findings, keep in mind that the internet does not necessarily have *all* of the answers in the world. Just because somebody hasn't published it on the internet and given it to a search engine doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

The internet is not yet really regarded as a great source for reliable research (for professional research uses). This is mainly because anybody can put anything that they want on the internet for little cost.

[eivanho]

I have to thank Rock Star Bob for an excellent article. I realize this project is still experiemtal, and I never took photos or made proof of this thing, but even without there are still plenty of other technologies out there which would .
It was always my understanding that these chips were meant/made to operate at room temp, so I thought why bother? Considering the speed that chips are gaining every year, this project may never do much but double the speed- and for the cost, what's the point!!!? I just wanted to throw it out there, incase it does come to use and someone does want to experiment with it. Additionally, I never said you had to use light gasses. The gold gan be grounded to the gold coat heat sinc of the chip inside a vacuum. And maybe one day, a chip might actually be made on it's spherical surface, and beat all chips by a thousand fold. It's just an idea, if you want batteries included, forget it!

[Crash893]

pictures i want pictures
i will not lift the BS stamp till i get pictures

[Christoph]

Would you like photos of atoms too? :rolleyes:
What mighty power you wield with your BS stamp. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[r0ckstarbob]

*chuckle*

[eivanho]

Sorry crash man, you get what you get. You'll just have to trust me. I recycled the parts long ago for another project. It hasn't run for over 6years! There were never pics. It's not necessary for 2 simple reasons: 1: gold is proven to gyrate thermal waves inside it's cubical atoms, which is why it is the best radiation reflector and used on satellites. 2: The transforming technology used(nonlinear metal layers) was already proven long ago withe the Zero Point Energy device, which if you study yourself, will find the device is forcing positive ionization. No matter what it is forcing however, it must be getting force from somewhere to give cars double horsepower by running from water vapor, that can recycle back to intake. Heat is just that, force, waiting to be harnessed. Get the mesons to oscillate synchronously, and you have the ability to transform their kinetic wave through a nonlinear medium. That's what my device does. It's like an electric heater running backwards. -eiv-

[r0ckstarbob]

i guess my big question with this whole concept is, where does the heat go?

i'm pretty darn knowlegeable about thermodynamic theory and practice, enough to know that you can't have one without the other, no matter how many atoms or magnetic fields you move. the only way you can get extreme cold is by seperating the heat from whatever particles happen to be holding it. thats how a peltier works.

current is passed through copper wire to a length of Iron Bismuth wire. where the copper touches the Bismuth the copper becomes super hot, and where the Bismuth touches the copper, the Bismuth becomes super COLD. thats kind of a simplistic explination of it but basically thats the jist. it's essentially effecting heat transfer on the molecular level. it's called the Thermoelectric effect.

is that the basic principle here? you're seperating the heat from a layer of atoms and thus creating an incredibly cold surface? if so, where does the heat go?

my point is, something cannot come of nothing and i've personally got enough thermodynamic knowlege and basic common sense to understand that if you're generating that kind of cold, there has to be at least an equal amount of heat somewhere (because it's already present in the thing that you're cooling) and that heat has does have go SOMEWHERE else. if you're making something cold it's because you're removing the heat it already possesses.

on a personal note:
i've come to hate the term "cooling" because it implies that we're preventing heat from generating which isn't the case. we're absorbing heat as it's generated (to one degree or another) with the cold. the faster we're able to absorb heat, the cooler our chip remains. Cooling implies that we're taking proactive, preventitive measures to ensure heat doesn't generate. thats not true. The fact is, we're perpetually playing catchup, trying to absorb all the heat that it already posesses or is perpetually generating (as in the case of our CPU's). Cooling is a re-action by it's very nature. heat is generated and we take steps to deal with that heat. when learning about thermodynamics, that was my number one mental hangup - trying to get rid of the association of cooling as a pro-active method instead of thinking of it as the re-active technique that it is.

[PanteraGSTK]

I was the first one to post in this thread asking if this was for real. And I for one believe him. Especially if two physicist agree that it is possible. Now if you hate stupid people(as do I) then do not show your stupidity by posting and asking rude questions that have been answered in previous posts. If you wish to join the ranks of the stupid person disagree with something you know nothing about. Stupid people aren't that bad if they admit their stupidity. By calling other people stupid you might as well be wearing a sign. This guy is obviously well educated on the subject, more than probably any of us here. You can disagree without being mean. How many scientists do you know that take pictures of everything they create just to prove unbelievers that they are wrong? If you consider yourself one of the "smart people" then don't say something is complete crap unless you know for a fact that it is. It brings back memories of a thread that AtomicGuy started about how his cpu was clocked to an unbelievable speed with air cooling. How do you know he isn't telling the truth? Are you there looking over his shoulder? No so keep you unintelligent opinion to yourself.

[Christoph]

I was drinking some water as I read you sig, Pantera. I'm surprised that it didn't fly out all over my screen. ROTFL, thanks for that gem. :D :D :D
Long live Linux!

[eivanho]

That is a very good question, where does the heat go? Mesons don't have to go, they just have to come to an order in flow. Heat is actually bosons moving apart, opening the atomic shell, caused by meson activity going haywire within. M-theory doesn't explain this, because they're still stuck on the idea of photons. It's like building ships. The first battleships made of wood got thicker and thicker, but something would eventually make that obsolete. Remember the Monitor? Anyway; Heat is omnidirectional, if it becomes unidirectional, there is meson flow, thus meson order, so it cools off/atom shrinks, maintains structure.

[Crash893]

let it die dude
just let it die


( that is unless you want to show us a pic something from prototype)

[eivanho]

I will never back down! Find another party to crash! I love a good argument, but hey, what IS this?

[cowanrg]

ya know, i was willing to believe this. it "can" make sense... however, i dont think the discussion should be reverted to petty, childish remarks such as correcting grammar. if you want to make a point, and get people to believe you, personal attacks will get you NOWHERE. (that is a fact you CAN prove ;-) )

[Christoph]

Eivanhoe, give it up. Most thinking people will believe you, and the ones who aren't convinced by now don't care what you type. Personally, I believe you and love to see little know theories like thoese on your site.
As for crash, your opinion is holding progressively less weight. You're not doing much with your right to free speech.

[cowanrg]

Originally posted by ptcg
Actually there are frictionless bearings.. They're called magnets.. If you can suspend the shaft inside a magnet, it can roatate freely with no friction at all.. That is what he was suggesting.


close, but no cigar. "frictionless" can unfortunately ONLY be obtained in a vacuum. air resistance and even magnetic fluctuation, as well as some other factors create friction (not in the typical "rubbing" sense though.)

its impossible to create a fully elastic reaction. however, you can get VERY close.

[nihili]

ain't entropy grand?

nihili

[Crash893]

Originally posted by eivanho
I will never back down! Find another party to crash! Power is nothing without control, not 'with' and 'out'; It's all one word spanky!

wow
way to change the subject
were just asking for some proof other than you say so.
the subject to personal attack
i fail to see what my sig has to do with your lack of convincing evidence


any person of science should know they have to prove there theorys/claims

you can say this new thing can make you jump over a building in a single bound but unless i see it on or some one else can back it up then its still a bunch of hoopla and snake oil .




:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[r0ckstarbob]

Originally posted by cowanrg


close, but no cigar. "frictionless" can unfortunately ONLY be obtained in a vacuum. air resistance and even magnetic fluctuation, as well as some other factors create friction (not in the typical "rubbing" sense though.)

its impossible to create a fully elastic reaction. however, you can get VERY close.

this might be a minor point but it's true. no such thing as a frictionless bearing. if we did, then perpetual motion machines would be a fact of life, and we know they're not. even a vaccum isn't enough. there's still friction from the magnetic fields themselves.

[r0ckstarbob]

crash, if you don't have anything constuctive to add then just shut your pie hole. i'm sick of hearing you whine. i'll lay good money that i'm not the only one.

[Mac42]

I don't really see the point off all this. This guy isn't saying "hey, buy this" or "you can make money off this if you pay me for the parts". He's just talking about an idea. Even if he did explain it in irefutable terms, who here would understand it? Some of you are acting like he's attacking you personally by even mentioning the idea. I'm personally very interested in the idea, but it's not like I'm paying admission. If it works the great... as long as he doesn't seel the information to some huge corperation that's going to cover it up and make sure no one can make it, it's a nice advancement. If he's just blowing smoke then who cares? What did you lose? Is it so bad to say "I don't know everything there is to know about this... maybe I should keep quiet until I know more"? I'm not saying you have to believe everything he says from the start, just don't act like everthing mankind will ever know about quantum physics is known before the year 2002.

I remember a lot of people that laughed at the idea of anti-matter existing. "Oh, that's just Star Trek... how can you believe that... I mean that's COMMON SENSE." Yea, that argumernt held up until they actually started producing the stuff in labs... granted it was only a few particles, but it's stiill there. Just don't be so quick to judge something as impossible... people have a way of making the impossible a household item (how many TV's and microwaves were there in the 19'th century?).

[ptcg]

Now we're starting to really nit-pick aren't we? If you suspend a shaft in a magnetic field & it can rotate freely, I think that is as close to 'frictionless' as your're ever gonna get. Sure there is friciton from air, etc.. but that amount is so small compared to bearings, I mean, come on.. Lighten up huh?

I was merely explaining the 'frictionless bearing' that eivanho was talking about because it was so quickly shot down as being BS.

[Christoph]

Originally posted by r0ckstarbob
crash, if you don't have anything constuctive to add then just shut your pie hole. i'm sick of hearing you whine. i'll lay good money that i'm not the only one.

Yeah, like $1000. It's a very safe bet.

BTW Mr. skeptic, when he says frictionless or any other absolute term, it's implied that there can be no perfect machine, ie that there will always be some friction, some irregularity etc.

For instance, in this forum, the irregularity is _________.
(Figure it out. All I see is a line segment.) :D :D

[eivanho]

Okay, maybe I haven't been statistical enough for some, but you'll never see me walking around with a sign saying "insert brain here". My apologies for correcting grammar however. There is proof for those who wish to beleive what they consider facts, but for those who are completely statistical, there will never ever ever be. It's like trying to reach a point on a graph, by moving half the distance left every time. You get closer and closer, but never arrive at point B!! So for now I leave this to ponder; On one hand, you have a skeptic without theory, but on the other hand, you have different fingers.

-eivanho-

[Christoph]

Hey, Eiv. crash may have had a point. I learned in chemistry that heat was essentially the movement of molecules, and I know that energy can't be made or unmade.
Is there a good place I can learn less simplified heat theory as it applies to your machine in a reasonably understandable language? I didn't mean to repeat his question, but there's a TON that I don't know. Where can I find Bosons and Mesons 101.

[r0ckstarbob]

Originally posted by ptcg
Now we're starting to really nit-pick aren't we? If you suspend a shaft in a magnetic field & it can rotate freely, I think that is as close to 'frictionless' as your're ever gonna get. Sure there is friciton from air, etc.. but that amount is so small compared to bearings, I mean, come on.. Lighten up huh?

I was merely explaining the 'frictionless bearing' that eivanho was talking about because it was so quickly shot down as being BS.

yup yup. you're definately right. was more just stating an observation then anything. anyone ever seen the "unbreakable" comb? or the "waterproof" watch? same concept. i mean it's pretty darn comparable and i'm sure in the end the differences are, especially for this kind of thing, miniscule and negligible at best.

[r0ckstarbob]

Originally posted by Mac42
I don't really see the point off all this. This guy isn't saying "hey, buy this" or "you can make money off this if you pay me for the parts". He's just talking about an idea. Even if he did explain it in irefutable terms, who here would understand it? Some of you are acting like he's attacking you personally by even mentioning the idea. I'm personally very interested in the idea, but it's not like I'm paying admission. If it works the great... as long as he doesn't seel the information to some huge corperation that's going to cover it up and make sure no one can make it, it's a nice advancement. If he's just blowing smoke then who cares? What did you lose? Is it so bad to say "I don't know everything there is to know about this... maybe I should keep quiet until I know more"? I'm not saying you have to believe everything he says from the start, just don't act like everthing mankind will ever know about quantum physics is known before the year 2002.

I remember a lot of people that laughed at the idea of anti-matter existing. "Oh, that's just Star Trek... how can you believe that... I mean that's COMMON SENSE." Yea, that argumernt held up until they actually started producing the stuff in labs... granted it was only a few particles, but it's stiill there. Just don't be so quick to judge something as impossible... people have a way of making the impossible a household item (how many TV's and microwaves were there in the 19'th century?).

right on brotha. you said it all.

now back to the business of overclocking... :) :) :)

[Christoph]

Hey! Nice avatar eivanhoe. You make it or get it somewhere?

Edit: I'm not envious though. I've got my own, and I'm quite happy with it.:D :D :D

[eivanho]

Yes, made the animation w/a micrographix program. Sitting for hours in front of this blasted computer does have it's rewards I guess.

[Crash893]

after reading some of my posts I realized that I was wayyyyy to into this than anyone should be

i realized that some of my post were a bit over zealous. witch would be a result of my actual interest in the topic.

so on the recommendations of several other members I will "shut my pie hole" till I have something constructive to say.

and without further delay
post away

[docJ]

If you think you really have something, get a paten on it. No point in losing out !

[Christoph]

Hey, thanks. I suppose that if I went over all my previous posts, I might find that what I typed and what I'd been thinking were two differing things. I'm glad that you've changed your mind some.
Now eivanhoe or anyone, are there any good sites where I can find some basic info on bosons and mesons so I can have an idea of what they are and why this mad machine works? I'd do a google search, but I'm not sure that I'd get info relevant to cooling. Until then, I'm just an enthuastic newbie.

Edit: Patents are expensive AFAIK, and if he's had the plans for 5 years and not patented it, he probably won't anytime soon either. I'm not him though.

[Frodo Baggins]

The way it works; the mesons are influenced by smaller partices, most obvious in electrical heating. The mesons don't move through the gold atom, while the electrons do. This changes the natural ratio of electrons to mesons, but most importantly, it must eventually force mesons to lock together into sets of ............*Zzzzzzzzz *snore*......

Sorry, my god. 15 year olds don't seem to comprehend this much.

Hehe, IMO, who the heck would take the itme to write this BS if it wasn't something they beleived in themselves

Absolute Zero...sounds cool :D

Anyways, as my parents once said, on the net, you can be anybody. You can say you have a PhD, or whatever, but pictures, and information can always be faked up. But whatever, this sounds like plans on how to make a time machine, and I'd love for someone out there to kill 5k US and make one of thesse shebangs

[Yodums]

Your nuts to spend 5K on cooling... Espically US money thats like roughly 10-11K here...

This is a computer.. I dont think it is no space shuttle or something.. Just wouldn't be worth spending all that money for a computer heh..

I got an idea you can do with that cash... Deposit it make a money order pack it in an evelope, then mail it to me... :)


That'll be my university scholarship...
pffft ... Once again it would be just lame to bring a comp down to -300F ...

[Christoph]

Originally posted by cricket
Your nuts to spend 5K on cooling... Espically US money thats like roughly 10-11K here...

This is a computer.. I dont think it is no space shuttle or something.. Just wouldn't be worth spending all that money for a computer heh..

I got an idea you can do with that cash... Deposit it make a money order pack it in an evelope, then mail it to me... :)


That'll be my university scholarship...
pffft ... Once again it would be just lame to bring a comp down to -300F ...

No affront intended, but I think that it's been established that, while extremely cool (no pun intended), $5k is too much to spend on cooling that would destroy your proc.

[eivanho]

There is only one way to satisfy the curiousity, so sometime in the next 1 to 3 months I expect to have a working model to show, so if you're not sure....
______________
Curiousity killed the cat, but it feeds the dog.
-eiv-

[Christoph]

Keeeeuuuuwwwwwlll.
Can't wait to see it.

What kind of other stuff do you make, and what's your job? Are there mad scientists over there in central Oregon?

[r0ckstarbob]

okay some things i learned

we have never been able to hit absolutely 0 Kelvin. we've been very very very very close, but have never done it.

okay. thats just a statement. this machine of his isn't suppose to get to 0K, it' suppose to get to 60.92777778 K (which IS -350F from what i found).

thats still awfuly freakin cold.

that being said, check this out.

the 2001 nobel prize was just awarded to three physicists who created a new state of matter called the BEC.

they created a new state of matter that cools to
0.00000002 degrees above absolute zero K. their discovery is suppose to revolutionize future computer cooling design and nanotechnology in the future.

incidentally they're accomplishing this by moving particles monodirectionally; in a very similar manner to what eivanho has proposed.

CHECK IT (http://www.nobel.se/physics/laureates/2001/press.html)

[r0ckstarbob]

http://www.nobel.se/physics/laureates/2001/public.html


this is a much better link. the word bosons is all OVER this thing.

[flounder43]

My last post was a few pages prior. Wow this thread has taken on a life of its own. Two questions:

1. Has Crash893's BS stamp been lifted? I hope not.

2. What about those Wooly Mamoths?!?!?

[Christoph]

Hey Flounder,

Crash looked over his previous posts and desided then posted this;

after reading some of my posts I realized that I was wayyyyy to into this than anyone should be

i realized that some of my post were a bit over zealous. witch would be a result of my actual interest in the topic.

so on the recommendations of several other members I will "shut my pie hole" till I have something constructive to say.

and without further delay
post away

About that link, I remember hearing something about buckyballs and another element lining up to become superconductors at about 20-30*K.
This is some crazy stuff.

Edit: flounder, check the guy's website. There's lots on the wolly mammoths.
Also, why do you care about the BS stamp when some guys just got a Nobel prize for doing something similar?

[Frodo Baggins]

ahh well, can't wait to see it anyways

[RangerJoe34]

I WANT THE LAST WORDS MUAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Frodo Baggins]

*cough* bump

[RangerJoe34]

not trying to get the last word again.....but what the hell does it mean when people "bump"

[eivanho]

IDEA MAGNATE; What you're thinking of is not buckyballs, but carbon or polycarbon nanotubes. These are conductive, and both are made of carbon. I probably said it before , but I'll say it again; maybe someday soon i'll try running a circuit speed transistor switch speed test using polycarbon nanotubes, applied directly to the surface of this thermal cooler sphere- with only a layer of some non conductive to seperate. Much more to research once we get the thing running.

[flounder43]

OK then, I nominate Eivanho for the Nobel Prize...Will he win? We shall see.

But first, once again, someone, *please* explain that thing about NATO! Please Eivnanho, tell me why you couldn't patent such an invention. Overefficiency? I want a cite, and explanation, something.

You might be talking about stuff that is theoretically possible, but why all the other BS? And what about the mammoths?!? The Earth really flips on its axis every few thousand years?!? That is incredible! Take credit, if it is true, we heard it from Eivanho first!

Please, I will become a "True Believer" if Eivanho, or anyone for that matter will explain the NATO thing, mammoths, and the overefficiency thing.

Also, Eivanho, if you could please also post your Ciriculum Vitae, I would appreciate it.

Please note... This is not a flame! I only ask for facts, cites, etc. Please show me! I know about the Nobel Scientists, and everything that has been discussed this far, but I want specifics from Eivanho, especially about that NATO treaty! And by God, if it is indeed true that mammoths were not in fact the creatures we all learned about in science class, someone ought to say something!

I'll even give you a head start...www.nato.int

Thanks.

[Christoph]

Duh! Nanotubules, not buckyballs. Diamonds, graphite, buckyballs, nanotubules; it's all carbon anyway. Funny what a difference a few little bonds can make.:D :D :D
What do you do?
Also, how do they make buckyballs/nanotubules and how much are they? I don't care to buy them, but their recent prominence in science makes me curoius.

[Christoph]

LOL at your avatar flounder. I think that eiv. mentioned that those theories weren't his originally. I agree about that NATO thing. What's up with that? Something to do with neoliberalism, perhaps?

[eivanho]

The mammoths are explained quite well in the earth page. The nato matter is so obvious, if you don't see it, take the time to research by checking out the Electrifying times for example. This string is for cooling only. No more pointed sugg. Thanx.

[flounder43]

As I expected, no substantive reply.

Sorry, the NATO thing is not obvious, humor me. Please.

The reason I bring up the mammoth thing is that if you support a theory that the Earth "flips" on its axis every few thousand years and that woolly mammoths were not in fact cold weather animals, but were actually frozen by such a "flipping" Earth, I would have to also scrutinize your other theories with regard to "cooling" computers. Therefore, my questions are indeed germane to this cooling forum.

So, I ask again, politely: Please explain what Nato has to do with your invention. Why can't you patent it?

Also, again politely I would ask, can we see your C.V.? What is the source of your research? Do you have citations? Are you employed in this field?

I am serious about this. None of us are here for your amusement. Please reply.

Thanks.

[flounder43]

BTW, I am an attorney who is familar with patents. You don't need to abbreviate your explanation with regard to vocabulary or otherwise.

Once again, thank you.

Eric

[r0ckstarbob]

this is ridiculous.

sure. and while we're at it why don't we ALL list our qualifications for being on this forum and doing what we're doing.

chuckit. y'all can squabble amongst yourselves. i've got overclocking to do. i'm outa here.

this is scott saying

i gots me nothing else constructive to add to this thread.

peazzout all.

PS. go get a beer.

[eivanho]

What does nato have to do w/it... ; A NATO treaty law enforces to prevent the introduction of anything that threatens the nuclear power and oil industry. The thermal transformer turns heat into electricity, making far more power than it takes to spin the induction discs. If you don't beleive that someone in the Gov.is enforcing nuclear and gas co.monopolization, after all the evidence, you need to get your head checked. Try starting up your own power station using any such technology, there are hundreds out there.
On the earth flip; you obviously didn't read the material, I'm not wasting my time with you.
_________________________________
99% of lawyers give the others a bad name.

[flounder43]

Eivanho:
Thank you for your reply. I think it proved my point, and I hope *everyone* reads it. I am sure a lot of us need our heads examined...

My God people, listen to this guy! :mad:

BTW, what other crazy conspiracy theories should I subscribe to? Did we really land on the moon? Is Elvis really still alive? Did space aliens help construct the Egyptian pyramids?

Also, thanks for the lawyer insult. Super creative.

[venFiken]

Tech is and has been repressed. If not explain the consumer oriented digital camera I have from '88. It uses little red disks 1/4 the size of a floppy. No LCD just picture counter. Now why did it take some 8 years later before we saw digital cameras re-enter the consumer market.

[flounder43]

And I am sure you have a fond memory of the status of 'tech' from when you were 8 years old? (I looked at your profile).

Film was just fine in those days, trust me, I remember.

[venFiken]

Dense are we? Jest aside. I do believe I said "a camera I have from 88" Now if I said something to the effect of a camera I purchased back in 88 then a valid point could be made. Yet it would be nothing more than an exercise in futility to continue with something as irrelevant as this.

[nihili]

Originally posted by venFiken
Yet it would be nothing more than an exercise in futility to continue with something as irrelevant as this.

And I for one have already had my futility muscles exercised quite nicely thank you very much. ;)

nihili

[Christoph]

I've got big strong futility muscles, but I'm getting a cramp.
What was the topic again?
This is getting vicious. Why don't you two (eivanhoe and flounder43) exchange phone numbers over PM and work out your differences (or whatever is that people do with differences). It's getting hot in here.

[Frodo Baggins]

Wow, 5 pages

[eivanho]

No worries IdeaMagnate;. I'm no longer arguing, just explaining. Ignoring the trailer park material should make this discussion more enjoyable. When I origionally posted, i didn't know a thing about cooling chips, but this has been very educational so far. Some specific points that some might not realize were as follows: the device should be able to cool many chips simotaneously, you can't build one small enough for 1 w/o spending more. The device might not be limited to cooling superconductor wafer as we know it, there are many new materials out there which would run far better, faster, using the low low temps this will prove capable of. I found links for a cold working transistor, and a few for materials that should superconduct at the temps this can bring. This is all that is necessary; the chip may be built around the device design. Hope to continue the string on this agenda alone. If this works in the amplitude estimated, the future will be putting wafer to rest, and working with these new materials for chip production. Something else of interest however; spotted a 1wavelength infared photo beam detector. Maybe someday, chips will be passed up with a holographic chip, using light and circuitry! hmmmmm.....

[RangerJoe34]

what the hell does it mean when someone says "bump"???

[Christoph]

It means that they want to "bump" the thread back to the top of the first page so more people will look at it.

Crazy stuff, Eivanhoe. I wonder if we'll be able to OC a chip on your cooler.
BTW, this is your invention, right?

[flounder43]

Crazy stuff is right!

Anyway, I am ducking out of this. I can't help but think that someone is at home laughing at my attempts to debunk this BS.

I would note that I did not try to insult anyone personally, unlike someone else in this thread. My criticizm, I hope, was issue related.

Nevertheless, I will spare everyone from my heretofore futile efforts at getting some straight answers. Please continue to lap up this carelessly strewn blather, at your own risk.

BTW, I really resent the trailer park crap. How cheap.

Very truly yours,
Eric

[jbell]

true or not - why would you want or need to go THAT cold? wouldn't that require q S-load of electricity to generate that cold?

[jbell]

WOOO HOOO I Broke 200!

ok I'm better now hehehe

[flounder43]

Ok, I lied. My friend read this thread and forwarded this link to me. It seems our friend Eivanho has ALSO invented a propulsion system similar to that used by UFO's.

http://www.hardevidence.com/bbs/messages/188.html

A must read!

I am out, this time for real.

[eivanho]

Magnate: yes,I invented this in 1994 before I finished my base for the physics theory. I came up with the idea of using nonlinear layering based on a spherical sense- nonlinear layering was already working in other techno's using cylinder designs, so I thought it should go further to make the vacuum work better. Nobody ever identified this vacuum better than Nikola Tesla, even through his maze of fallacies in describing an 'ether'. Too bad he hadn't the data we have from atom smashers today. Without it, just using field wave science, he designed the plasma torrid nuclear reactor; the idea behind which employs a method of making a particle vacuum of sorts- built on the concept of a gyroscope that has no feedback return. ie; spins off g force, but what particles it loses here, it can't gain back by rule of design. A torrid being a spiral flow inside a donut shape.

[drunkmonkey]

Originally posted by eivanho
I'm posting a page for the skematics so I don't have to keep replying to e mails. It will be at http://www.geocities.com/mw0440/thermaltransformer.html

in the end of that page it said the device gave off more DC than it took to run the motor, isn't that a perpetual energy device? which has never been made????? I'm so confused by that, my head hurts, I'm going to take all the physics classes i can take in college:)

[Crash893]

oh loooooooooord not this post again


this thing was SUCH BS

its like the holly grail of overclocking to get -350 with no massive energy consumption or a room full of equipment

but its never going to happen

[glass]

Originally posted by eivanho
I find so often that fools will post things they know little or nothing about! in 1978 in boulder Colorado, the coldest temp recorded in a lab was -273celcius, which is equal to -459f.!!! My device reached appx -332f, but am pretty sure it could have done -350 with higher rpm's of meson induction. I'm giving free plans for this device for anyone interested in just looking or etc....; request from mw0440@yahoo.com

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/olivier.granier/thermo/liv_tel/temp/temp.htm

some info on nearing absolute zero and temperatures in general

and here is a good link for you who are intrested in nearing the absolute zero k,

http://boojum.hut.fi/archive/index.html

Picture Archive
...... ... ... ...
of the Low Temperature Laboratory (helsinki university of technology)

http://boojum.hut.fi/archives.html

and just general stuff about it..


of course this has nothing to do with the issue in hand.

and yes, ln2 seems too cold for new athlons.

[Intraveinous]

Hehe... Wow, been about 6 months since I've seen this one... Seriously though, the more I look at Eivanho's posts, the more I feel like we're the butt of a larger scale SomethingAwful ICQ Prank... I know nothing of the physics other than that if all of this were true, we'd be reading about it in Science or Nature rather than on the O/C Forums. I do think it's about time that this thread died though...
Peace
John

[Christoph]

My! This brings back memories.
Uhhh, thanks for the superbump, drunkmonkey.
I'm glad this thread haasn't been killed, but I liked it better when I couldn't see it.
BTW, it does seem a little like a huge SA prank. LOL!

[Istari1]

ROFL! Ok, I'm sorry guys but I had never seen this before, after reading the initial start of the thread I knew this was BS , come on guys. Sometimes I think we want negative temps so bad we'll believe anything. Whoever sill believes this I got some nice Ocean front property in Nevada to sell ya, or better yet send me $5000 and I'll sned you my skematics for cold fusion:)

Josh

[drunkmonkey]

I found this thread while searching for thermodynamics, thought it was good enough to be broght back form the dead:D. My head still hurts from trying to understand all this stuff. last post before mine was 10-15-2001 lol, I never noticed

edit: i know for sure temps like that are possible, no doubt but for under $5k?? sounds a lil fishy

[Crash893]

Originally posted by Istari1
ROFL! Ok, I'm sorry guys but I had never seen this before, after reading the initial start of the thread I knew this was BS , come on guys. Sometimes I think we want negative temps so bad we'll believe anything. Whoever sill believes this I got some nice Ocean front property in Nevada to sell ya, or better yet send me $5000 and I'll sned you my skematics for cold fusion:)

Josh

thats what i said but every one was like mass hyptonized by this

youll notice every time we asked to see a picture or something he refered us to his lame website that didnt have any thing on it but a bunch of techno jargin he used to mask it

on paper you can come up with a lot of stuff like this but in the real world is diffent

[Spartacus51]

Man, I gotta look at dates sooner, can't believe I just read 5 pages of this when the original poster apparently is no longer around.

Anyway, interesting theory, terrible thread... Is it just me or was that an awful lot of flaming that would never survive anymore?

Maybe this guy dropped out of the forums cause he was too busy with speaking tours after winning a Nobel.. who knows. Some of it sounds phony, but either way I say the guy definitely knows a heck of a lot.

[KFB]

pardon me for not wading through all the posts in this tripe of a thread, but eivanho, i think i remember you. can you say cold fusion?