Head on into Water cooling, How I plan to setup my system, advice pls

Been thinking for the last few days about setting up a water cooling system

1. Because i want reasonable temps
2. Lower the noise
3. Have abit of fun with abit of over clocking

So I looked into some kits and just don't have the money for them and i like to build things my self anyway. So I'm going to build it up. So i did some research..... and i found out i can use a heater core for a rad, I'll buy the pump and i can make a water block. Now I'm going to want to cool my cpu (of course) and my GPU.

Now my first thought (based on how well making my first wb goes, but in my head it seems easy enough) was to cool everything with water, cpu, gpu, chipset, harddrive, memory, i was even thinking the psu. This would eliminate all fans except the rad fans and i was planning on having the rad away from the comp. Now i know a lot of that was not necessary but why not. Well i came to my senses kinda and figured it wasn't worth it.

Now i have to sate that i plan on putting the hc outside in the winter (i'm in canada) and over a a/c vent in the summer (that's the best i can think of right now for the summer, just have clock it down a bit in the summer).

I thought great, what a good idea, nice cold water going over the cpu, then i did some more reading/research and found out there's a problem with that. Condensation.....(and that i wasn't the first to think of doing this, which would have surprised me if i was) Ok so the solution to that is isolate the cpu, wb, hoses etc... I really didn't want to go threw all that, don't want to make a mess of my board. So i saw that instead of insulating the cpu, you could cool the whole case with a second heater core. I liked this a idea much more as it A) solves the condensation problem and B) keeps everything cool. Eliminating any necessity to water cool anything other then the cpu and gpu (not that there was any real need before)

Ok so the last couple days i have been thinking (and reading) on how this is all going to be set up. So here's the parts i will need as far as i know, btw all my knowledge is just from what i read basically so any input is greatly appreciated

PARTS:
2x Heater Core - One for use as the rad, thje other to be used insie my case to lower case temps so the 2nd one needs to fit into my comp (now i read in a post that a 1977 Pontiac Bonneville (with a/c) works well, also was suggested to me by sewerbeing (thanx btw) here)
Pump - (this I'm not sure about, I'm gona by this for sure and figure i should get one that's is proven to work well for pc water cooling)
CPU Water Block - I'm gona make it out of a block of copper (more on that later)
GPU Water Block - I'm gona make it out of a block of copper (more on that later)
Shroud - I'll make it out of something, lots of options
Fans - According tho sewerbeing I'll need 2 120mm fans if I'm going to use the bonny hc and I'll need how ever many for the hc inside my comp
Reservoir - i heard that this isn't necessary and u can have a system without it but i don't see y not, not hard to make and you have move fluid volume
Hose - some suggested here by sewerbeing, i need some that can hold up to the cold well....i guess that's all you can ask of a hose other them it not to leak but i don't see a hose randomly deciding to leak
Other stuff - clamps, distilled water (when i finally have it all done) antifreeze
Mounting hardware - Bought or made

I think that's it, if I'm missing something let me know.

Sewerbeing, would u happen to know the dimensions of the bonny hc?
Is there any smaller heatercores out there?
What other cars have people used heater core from? What are the dimensions?

The water block I'm going to make out of copper and solder together, I'm going to make a pic of how i plan to design it and post it later and talk about it then.

For pump selection i want a pump that can pump good even when i have my rad away from my comp. About 4 feet probably but 6 would be good, i dunno how far I'm going need it away probably not even 4 feet but i want a pump that can work well still at about 6 feet if that's possibly just in case.

I guess that's about it for now, I'll work on a diagram of the water block and how I'm gona set it all up in my comp.

Oh and i read that the the hard drive and cd/dvd drives don't like it too cold, that makes sense to me so I'm gona close them off from the rest of the comp, not completely but enough to keep the warm enough.

All input is greatly appreciated, you all have a lot more experience then me and would like to here what you have to say

Thanx

i would vote for danger den parts. they are the main supplier of the heatercore/radiator's now and they are sending that to the customer, which means a brand new radiator for 40$ from them, plus they have the new adjustable pump, and of course their wonder GPU blocks and then the wonderful CPU TDX blocks.

CPU: Swiftech Storm
GPU: Danger Den Maze4
Pump: Swiftech MCP655
Radiator: 1977 Pontiac Bonneville (with a/c) you will need 2 120mm fans for it and a shroud you can make yourself from cardboard even.

The cpu and gfx blocks are the best mass produced ones you can buy and the pump is the best fit. For tubing thats your choice some like tygon and others like clearflex you want 1/2" id and 3/4" od for clearflex though.

EDITED ALOT, look at first post

I wouldnt make your own blocks unless you got like a machine shop. Plus a good block is like $50 max.

Well i don't have a machine shop but my dad has a small engine shop.
I have drill presses, a machined large flat piece of steel he uses to "lap" head, i think its accurate to .01 of an inch for every 12 inches. He has a mig welder too but I'm not gona need it, i just need to solder it. Oh and a demel, you can do anything with a dremel lol.

I do have good mechanical knowledge, just haven't done pc water cooling. And I'll have my dad to ask for little stuff.

oh yeah and hes looking to get a milling machine anyhow, would be amazing if he got it sooner rather then later tho..... for my sake..

first off I'm sorry to crush your idea but unless you have several years worth experience in a machine shop, current access to one and a milling machine then you will not make a decent waterblock. Also to put it bluntly you lack the knowledge to make your own (knowledge like why a good waterblock is a good waterblock). So to keep this short I recommend you get a commercially made block which is known to perform. Also how would you do the mounting system and do you have access to blow torches and a lot of solder? Finally a shorter heatercore is a chevette heatercore which fits 120mm fan. Dimensions on a bonny are close to 12 inch long, 5 and 5/8 inch wide and 2 inch deep. That said stick with a bonny

SewerBeing said:

CPU: Swiftech Storm
GPU: Danger Den Maze4
Pump: Swiftech MCP655
Radiator: 1977 Pontiac Bonneville (with a/c) you will need 2 120mm fans for it and a shroud you can make yourself from cardboard even.

The cpu and gfx blocks are the best mass produced ones you can buy and the pump is the best fit. For tubing thats your choice some like tygon and others like clearflex you want 1/2" id and 3/4" od for clearflex though.

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You recomend all those high-end parts, and then a trashy-looking bonneville core with a _cardboard_ shroud?

Pro*Banshee said:

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You recomend all those high-end parts, and then a trashy-looking bonneville core with a _cardboard_ shroud?

Click to expand...

Voodoo Rufus is trying to figure out which is better the BIXII or a bonny core + shroud for high flow fan configs. I recommend the parts that give the best performance. People get into watercooling for performance and noise reduction so I recommend what is best. However on the rads the BIXII vs bonny is looking to be a very very close race however the BIXII costs more so I recommend the bonny to make up for some other parts. Its like paying more than twice as much for looks to get the same performance. Its against my philosophy on watercooling configs.

When I opened up my bonny I thought vintage (didn't look like new pennies). But with my dual-push-pull Aluminum shrouds connected, I like the look.

SewerBeing said:

Voodoo Rufus is trying to figure out which is better the BIXII or a bonny core + shroud for high flow fan configs. I recommeneded the parts that give the best performance.

Click to expand...

In Voodoo Rufus's sticky he has 6 rad's, how does the bonny at peak performance compare to those? Is the bonny's downfall just: size and looks? Does it slow the water down more than those 6 or something?

Pump: Swiftech MCP655
CPU: Swiftech Storm

I decided to change my block purchase to the storm --- in thought of cooling future CPU's.

I have to completely agree with Sewer. Unless you are DEAD SET on the bling factor, A HC is the better choice, simply because of cost. With some spray paint and a few hours of attention you can make a HC look just as nice as a pre fabbed rad.

You don't have to go the el-cheapo route to making a shroudn either. You can purchase a sheet of sheet metal, cut, fold and solder the sides. Spray some paint on it, add soem weather stripping to seal the fans and the HC, and WHAMMO you got a great looking radiator/shroud combo for much cheaper than a BIX2. Not very difficult to do either.

Wet Neophyte said:

When I opened up my bonny I thought vintage (didn't look like new pennies). But with my dual-push-pull Aluminum shrouds connected, I like the look.



In Voodoo Rufus's sticky he has 6 rad's, how does the bonny at peak performance compare to those? Is the bonny's downfall just: size and looks? Does it slow the water down more than those 6 or something?

Pump: Swiftech MCP655
CPU: Swiftech Storm

I decided to change my block purchase to the storm --- in thought of cooling future CPU's.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry to keep this going so far off topic. However the things that matter are how many fins it has (more fins = more surface area = more cooling) however more fins = more resitance to airflow so you need strong fans. Right now it is still up in the air as to which is better but its looking like it will be with in 1C of a difference. That said the heatercore is a lot cheaper than the BIXII so I do not see the need to waste money. All in all I think they have similar restriction. Also as Jas added if you spend the time you can make yours look awesome especially if you read Weapon's sticky up in the sticky section on how to mod it where he has painting instructions.

I'd go so far as to say even an unpainted core (that has been buffed and pollished) is pretty sexy by istelf. Of course the nice thing about using the core, is IF you decide to paint it, you can get creative with it, and produce something original.

OK well in response to sewerbeing's post

First off i don't see the necessity to have several year of experience in a machine shop to mill a path for water to flow threw a block of copper. I've seen water blocks at overclockers.com and in this form that are made from copper pumping caps and plastic..... they worked fine, of course not at the level of a commercially made block but that's expected. I have no need for the best performing water block, I'm not here to set records or beat someone else. I would have to spend lots more money on a system for that, money i don't have, not that i care to prove anything. Having the rad/heater core outside during the winter is going to give me pretty low temps as it is, whats 5 degrees between the best commercially available block to the average/worst. I'm not gona lie i don't know the range, but even if its 10 degrees from the best to worst. Its gona be around -20 outside on about average probably. Take 10 degrees away from that for a crappy water block and I'm still at -10. That should be enough for me, I'm not trying to go sub zero here or anything.

I may not have experience but where does knowledge come from, learning... so is it not possible for me to gather enough knowledge to at least build a block? Sure i don't have any experience as to what works and what doesn't but how am i going to get any if i just go and buy everything and hook up some hoses? As to knowing why a good water block is a good water block, your right i have no idea but like i said i need a water block not a "good" water block. And this isn't the hardest concept to grasp. There's pressure, flow rate etc.... i know they are all factors. Now i don't know what the best balance is but i don't think anyone does or there would be a post saying best setup here.... its part of have different options and trying to find what works best for your setup. Am i right? or no?

I haven't even posted my design yet, I know its not gona be innovative or anything special but it should work. Whats the worse that can happen? I waste my time and money on a block of copper, i think i would have to go threw a lot of copper blocks to justify the cost of buying one. Oh and also i want one for my gpu that's another 40, so I'm up to 80, another 80 for a good pump and i'm already at 160USD (as I'm in Canada that's a bit more here) also a water block from danger den for the nVidia's 6000 series is 120 ish USD!

So i build one and it leaks..... then it failed...build another and its too restrictive....so? Try again.

Here's the basic idea of the water block that i want to build. Quite simply it will have a barb to the center of the block to put cold water directly onto the die, then have 2 slightly smaller barbs to ether side as outlets. The block inside will just have straight channels from one side to the other, kinda like a heat sink and the water will flow threw the channels. Heat will go up into the "fins" of the water block but like a heat sink works and water will flow down them picking up the heat.

Now i plan to make these channels using a drill press and make a series of holes then cleaning it up with a dremel. Then solder a thich enough plate to the top. (yes i have torches, and i can get solder). Then lap the block on my dads machined flat plate of steel. i can check the flatness with a gauge my dad has to make sure its flat. Leak lest it, and see what happens.
Out of curiosity how do people normaly lap blocks? Because i would agree with what i read (i think it was the myths of water cooling) that lapping a block, atleast by hand, would make the surface uneven.

SO does that sound so bad that i just couldn't do it?

Also if it all goes to hell I'm going to school for tool and die (which is working with milling machines and lathes). Then I'll just make one there on a mill. Hell if i know someone taking the CNC course then i can get them to cnc it for me. I wasn't planning on building this until the fall anyhow. And now that i might get a different board and graphics card and cpu later on I'm gona wait for that. Still want it all planed out and ready to do.

To the heater core discussion, i really don't care about the looks, well not over value and functionality. And yeah i can just paint it and make a nice shroud.

I found a rad sitting around at my dad's house, its off my 80cc honda shifter kart (the engine is from a cr80 honda dirt bike). I don't have the dimensions for it off hand but i may work well (expensive if u were to buy one but yeah for parts laying around). I'm gona need a small heater core for the inside of my case. It's only a mid tower so it can't be big. Not too much bigger then a 120mm fan i would guess, gona take some measurements later.

bnevest27: I'm sorry there was a bit of a misunderstanding here. I assumed all you had to work with was what you listed above which will not work nicely for making waterblocks. I also did not know you were taking courses in this which would make it easier. As far as your block idea goes its alright, you want thin fins and lots of em. Also if you could some how make small disturbances for the water as it flows through the channels that would be even better. However your idea will provide decent temps probably not looks though. Also lapping by hand (as in you move the sand paper over the block and don't put the sandpaper on glass so its straight) is bad because you will provide different pressures to each area. Again sorry for the confusion I was just going with your post above.

no problem, I'm sure a lot of people just jump in and say i want 2 build a water block so i understand your concern. and thank you

If I'm using the drill press, i was thinking when i was cleaning up the drilling is just griding off every other ridge on alternating sides, also the tip of the bit will cause a dimple in the bottom of the channels. That's all i could think of to cause turbulence.

The things that i haven't started to figure out that I'm gona have to spend a lot of time on is the actual dimensions. How tall to make the channels/block, width and length i guess would just be slightly bigger then the cpu.

The thing i think i'm goin to have the most trouble with is the balance between low resriction and vilosity.

Mounting actually won't be too hard i don't think there's two blots holding the plastic socket for the heat sink into a metal plate on the back of the board.

I read one of the sticky's and dunno what jet impingement is and would like to know more about the "boundary layer".... heres where i read it from

"mazes were pushed to the lower end with the release of the White Water, which utilizes jet impingement and mini fins. Jet impingement is the use of a conduit of water that is decreased in size, a restriction, to accelerate the water to fairly high speeds, so the water hits the base at a fairly high speed, reducing the boundary layer (a microscopic gap between the copper and the water, caused by imperfect copper and the surface tension of water)"

basically jet impingement accelerates the water through use of mini jets and then it breaks the surface tension of the water and keeps that layer were little to no heat is transfered to a minimun. However you do not have access to the tools for this. Cathar's blocks using this are made by a machine shop and they had trouble at first too because of the design so it is very complex. I recommend you stick to your channel idea and that dimple should be ok.

Well, for me, being short on time to research all this, I am gald I took the route I did.

Granted, I did choose a kit (swiftech 120 blah blah), but the result was more than what I'd guessed. Very good results, btw.

Kinda makes me wonder if there is a such thing as bad water cooling.

I'm sure there is though.

thermaltake bigwater for one they mix aluminum and copper in one setup which is suicide if you want to keep your loop healthy. Sorry for the off topic. Slammin, however making your own block is good experience.

thanx sewerbeing for the great info. yeah, i wouldn't ever think of trying to do that.

Yeah, i remember reading that somewhere, if i can recall, i think it causes corrosion from the reaction of the two metals.

speaking of that then, all the rads that are sold for water cooling, like the ones in the this months buyers guide sticky, are they made of aluminum?

oh also, what are the pros and cons to having a reservoir or not having one?