Is an upgrade worth it?

[johan851]

I'm wondering right now if a PSU upgrade is worth it to me. I'm running everything in my sig below on a Fortron 530w. I'm going to be doing a vdroop mod on the mobo and watercooling, so I want to get all I can out of this system.

Is the PSU I have going to be up to it? These Fortrons are great PSUs, but I'm not so sure if mine is really up to the increased load. I'm reading more and more about these systems wanted a lot from the 12v rail, and not so much from the 5v. Noise IS a concern, definitely, so I'm not certain that I could deal with the PC Power and Cooling 510 series...I hear a lot of people saying they're quite loud. Is there a way to make them quieter?

If what I have won't cut it, my budget is around $130 or so for a new PSU.

Things in my favor:
My four sanyo denki watercooling fans are being run off a seperate PSU (leaving two .13a 120mm's and a Panaflo L1A on my Fortron)
I'm only powering a 9800 Pro
My pump is AC, so it's not pulling load off the PSU

Things not in my favor:
My PSU says it puts out only 18A on the 12v rail. Certainly it's more than that?

[Bad ConNecTioN]

Well, its not really more as that is what the PSU was designed to handle. Fortrons are usually conservative with their ratings but it is still no 12v powerhouse. Its a good unit but not really for modern 12 oriented systems.

You may not need to upgrade now, but eventually you will have to. I really suggest you take a look at the Seasonic S12 series as they are showing to be excellent units and are as quiet as it gets with fanned power supplies.

[Deathknight]

That 12v rating is fairly conservative, I ran my dual processor rig on a 530w fortron for a long time. Your video card is also not as power hungry as the newer cards. 2 negatives to that supply would be the lack of headroom for future power needs and the noise (at normal fan speed its not that bad, but when you start putting a bit of a strain on it the fan kicks up a notch and it gets fairly loud).

Personally my recommendation to anyone looking at a new PSU is to deal in reality instead of guessing at their needs if at all possible. Doesn't sound like your Fortron should have too hard a time running the system with the changes you are talking about so why not get a multimeter and test it out after the changes are done?

[larva]

Here's the standard I judge this by. Set the system up with zero OC. Measure the 12V at the 4pin aux12V cpu connector at idle and with an instance of prime and one of 3DMark running concurrently. Note the voltage droop. It should be .1V or less, as little as .05V with a Fortron in many cases.

Now repeat the same procedure with the machine clocked up to its maximum stable speed. If the loaded figures droop .2V or more idle vs load, or the loaded figure ends up more than .3V less than it did with no OC the supply is loaded heavily, and replacement isn't really a luxury.

The temperature of the air discharged is pretty reliable with these supplies, also. If it's huffing hard and hot, it's loaded heavily. If it's breathing cool air, it's not working that hard. I think it's entirely possible that a stronger supply could improve your OC, but that is the sort of thing that you can only finitely quantify by trying it.

[johan851]

Thanks for the help. Right now, the fans are at low speed and it's pumping out nice, cool air with two instances of FAH running. Once I have the watercooling set up (it'll be isolated in a seperate box) the system temperature should be very cool, and the PSU will at least be getting cool intake air.

I removed the fan grill on the inside side of the unit too, so that might allow it to breathe a little better.

Once I have some more intense overclocking going I'll pull out my DMM and test it.

How do I measure from the 4-pin connector when it's plugged into the board?

I'll be in a better position to evaluate my budget in several weeks, so I'll look a little more seriously into a 600w Seasonic S12 then.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

I removed the fan grill on the inside side of the unit too, so that might allow it to breathe a little better.

More benefit can be had in moving that intake fan to the other side of that panel - the way they are from the factory keeps cool air from getting around the heatsinks to the output side of the unit.

Measure from the back of the 12v connector at a yellow wire using something like a sewing needle inserted carefully into it. You can also measure from a drive molex, if you're nervous about it - there's only 1 12v rail on these, so the reading will be fairly close to what you'll get from the 12v connector. If you get a low 12v reading (below 11.9v) and unusually high 5v (above 5.2v), the supply is overloaded.

[silentdebuggers]

Have you ever thought about building slave powersupply out off one of your old one's to run all your fans and what-not?

[johan851]

From your sig, it looks like you did that mod yourself, Oklahoma Wolf. How were the results?

[johan851]

Have you ever thought about building slave powersupply out off one of your old one's to run all your fans and what-not?
The first post mentions that I do have a slave PSU (also a Fortron...250w) running my three Sanyo Denki 120mm's. That takes about 2 amps off the 12v rail, so that helps. Not sure what else I could power with it that would help though...it's isolated, and the wiring would be difficult. I'd rather not use it on the video card, and that probably wouldn't help a lot anyway...I think the 9800's use the 5v rail for almost all of their power.

[Oklahoma Wolf]

From your sig, it looks like you did that mod yourself, Oklahoma Wolf. How were the results?

That I did - runs cooler and quieter. It does make the PSU a little long though.

[johan851]

An update for you guys. I'm not at max load because I'm still running with my stock cooler, and the temps are a little high for my liking. I'll have more when I get the watercooling together, which should be only a week or two longer. I also am using a 9200SE until I can get the watercooling running on my 9800 Pro too. Still...

At a moderate overclock...3.76GHz @ stock voltage, with low voltage all around, I get 11.94-11.95v idle and 11.87-11.88 with two instances of Prime95 running. So that's a drop of about .07v or so. That's ok, I guess, but I would hope for something a little tighter considering I'm not running up to nearly my full potential, and using a video card which doesn't pull much current.

I'm considering getting a Seasonic S12 purely for the quieter operation, although that's a bit of a budget stretch. :( What does a Fortron 530w sell for these days?