Looking to buy some new RAM

I've decided it's time to buy some new RAM. I'm happy with my entire system, but I'd like to achieve higher OCs (now that I'm on water) with my Pressy, and I know that I'm being held back by my choice to stay with my crappy budget RAM. Currently, I'm on the hunt for a best-of-the-best 2x512MB kit, but I've got a few things I'd like to clear up for myself beforehand.

First of all, TCC5 or TCCD? From what I gather, TCCD is on it's way out (although still an excellent choice), and TCC5 is it's successor. My friend's having some good experience with TCCD on his A64 rig, but I'm not sure if I'll have the same luck on mine (P4 3.0E). I'm mainly looking for RAM that I can overclock enough to get my processor up to 4Ghz or so (if possible; we'll see), with relatively good timings. To my understanding, TCCD (and/or TCC5) fit this bill very well.

Secondly, this question has been burning my brain for quite some time now so I'd like to finally put it to rest. I understand that there is a divider on Intel systems which allows you to run your RAM:FSB out of sync (not 1:1). However, apart from overclocking, I've always ran my RAM:FSB at 1:1 (I can't directly set it in my BIOS but I have 800Mhz FSB/4 = 200Mhz and DDR400/2 = 200Mhz, or 1:1). My question is: Am I really going to see a performance increase if I jump from PC3200 to PC3500/PC3700 etc., given that they operate at a higher Mhz that my core clock? I can see where a divider (i.e. 5:4) comes into play allowing the two to operate at different frequencies, but what exactly does this do? To my knowledge, you can only operate as fast as your slowest component (in this case my CPU's clock), and in this case, the RAM would have a larger bandwidth pipe that the CPU cannot fill. Is this logic sound or is there something I'm missing which enables one to see a performace boost from faster RAM?

The divider comes into play when the ram speed can't keep up with the fsb. So you slow it down with a divider and it allows the ram to work properly. I can't get too technical on Intel because I am not that familier with them, but for the AMD's I can give you an example. I will use my rig.

the not as good ram setup:
A64 2800 (HTT 200x9) 1800MHz
Corsair Value Select pc3200 rated for DDR400 or 200MHz

When you start to raise the HTT(FSB) using 1:1, I can only to take it to HTT(FSB)229
with the ram being the same at 229MHz, because that is all the juice that ram has. You will then have to put it on a divider of 5/6. I was able to raise the HTT(FSB) to 278 with the ram at like 217MHz on the 5/6 divider.

the better ram setup:
A64 2800 (HTT 200x9) 1800MHz
Crucial Ballistix pc4000 rated for DDR500 or 250MHz

Right off the bat I was able to run the HTT(FSB) to 250 on 1:1 with no problem with ram at 250MHz. Then I raised HTT(FSB) to 278 on 1:1 with no problem again with ram at 278MHz.

So as you can see the higher the the rated ram (pc3200, pc4000) the more juice you can get out of them for running dividers or not.

Sorry for my ignorance, but I don't believe I know what 'HTT' means?

Also, thank you for clearing that up. Any patricular RAM suggestions?

HTT on AMD64 = FSB on all other systems.

Since there is no actual southbridge that handles the Front Side Bus (because it's replaced with a HyperTransport built right into the CPU), calling it FSB on an Athlon64 system is technically incorrect, hence why its called HTT in the BIOS.

but in terms of overclocking, it functions the same way. HTT x cpu multiplier = operating frequency.

p.s. on FSB-type systems, running the RAM with a divider is not optimal, so you usually try to make it 1:1. but on Athlon64 rigs, the HTT is already a divider of the CPU frequency, so running ram at a different speed with dividers makes virtually nil difference in performance.

Anyone?

Still trying to find the best RAM for my system. From the suggestions above, I'm probably going to get PC4000 or so, but as to what brand, I'm not sure. OCZ? Corsair? G.skill?

Or should I go with some kickass PC3200?

Well I've done it. Got myself some

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220033
(Patriot 2x512MB DDR400 Low CL)

We'll see how it goes.

I got Patriot 2x512MB (2 pairs) DDR400 LL 2.3.2.5 T1. I had 2x512MB Corsair XMS @ 2.3.2.6 saw Patriot was close. So instead of mixing with 1GB of XMS just got 2GB of the Patroit.

I would go for the GEIL UltraX, Crucial BallistiX 3200, OCZ VX 4000 or Mushkin Level II V2. Or just any BH-5 RAM of you like high voltage.

My BallistiX did 250MHz with 2.5-3-3-5 timings with 2.85v, not too shabby in my books.

First of all, see what your CPU is able to so. I had a 3.0E "E0" revision, which did 3.9GHz stable (260MHz FSB). I ran it @ 250MHz 24/7 with my RAM 1:1. So, if your CPU does the same, get some RAM which will do those speeds. The 3.2c in my sig did only 235MHz FSB, therefore I didnt really need high end overclocking RAM, I ran it at 225MHz with 2.5-2-2-5 timings.

Edit: Just seen you have an MSI Neo2 865PE mobo. Well, for that I would really recommend some RAM that does at least 218MHz with 2-2-2-5 timings. Because then you can enable the "Ultra Turbo Mode", overclock the CPU to 218MHz and get all the "bonuses" from PAT. It increases the memory bandwidth and overall performance. My system overclocked to 218MHz using PAT was just as fast (SuperPI, PCMark04, SiSoft Sandra) as when I overclocked it to 235MHz FSB! And since 218MHz FSB are almost stock, you dont even have to increase v-core and v-dimm in most cases.

I haven't really messed around with DOT/MAT/PAT as to my previous understanding, they didn't do much for your box when it's OCed; I guess I mis-read.

I opted for the low voltage Patriot 2-2-2-5 PC3200 as I've heard it can attain high speeds at relatively good timings. My board also can't support >3.0V Vdimm.

I have a D0 revision proc., and I was able to attain 3.8 on air, but my budget RAM was my downfall and it wasn't stable while testing.

I'll have to give PAT a shot and see how it goes.

Ok, well I've got it all installed. After a few issues with stability, and me feaking because I thought my pump died (bad PSU strand and temps went up to 71C idle ), I've finally found the sweet spot; for now.

Currently, I'm running @ 250mhz RAM (DDR500) w/ 2.5-3-3-7 (2.7 or 2.75V; I forget) and 1:1 ratio, so my FSB is 1Ghz and my CPU is 3.75Ghz. Also with Ultra-Turbo MAT enabled, I was able to break 6000 on Sandra's Memory Bandwidth test. Are these acceptable results with this RAM?

Although, I did run into a few errors in Prime95, I'm hoping to tweak it a bit more to get it entirely stable, and then try for a higher (CPU) overclock. I'll post my results.

Stewie said:

Ok, well I've got it all installed. After a few issues with stability, and me feaking because I thought my pump died (bad PSU strand and temps went up to 71C idle ), I've finally found the sweet spot; for now.

Currently, I'm running @ 250mhz RAM (DDR500) w/ 2.5-3-3-7 (2.7 or 2.75V; I forget) and 1:1 ratio, so my FSB is 1Ghz and my CPU is 3.75Ghz. Also with Ultra-Turbo MAT enabled, I was able to break 6000 on Sandra's Memory Bandwidth test. Are these acceptable results with this RAM?

Although, I did run into a few errors in Prime95, I'm hoping to tweak it a bit more to get it entirely stable, and then try for a higher (CPU) overclock. I'll post my results.

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GOOD JOB.
I myself went ahead and bought Patriot XKLB 3200 Yesterday. It is a very good ram. and too bad that OCZ rev2 changed to TCC5 from TCCD. This ram is TCCD and it was tested by anandtech against OCZ (TCCD, before they changed to TCC5) and run side by side and in some areas better than OCZ but overall OCZ was about 1-2% better performance, not a biggy. You got yourself a good ram and $10 cheaper than TCC5, take care of ur baby.
Dont worry about Prime95 w/ some errors since the ram is still new and need to be burn-in. So I suggest keep running prime95 and any other burning program you get hold of and keep burning-in the ram (12-15 hrs 3-5 days), and then try tweeking afterward. I bet you will get 600 out of it-anandtech took this ram up to 630 mhz with no problem w/ stability.
Below is the review on this ram:
http://anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2390

btw, this ram was $225 4 month ago.
PS: If I was you, I go get me a small window unit (A/C) and run a duct from CPU to it. Just kidding
But on the serious note this may not be a bad idea. Hope you have a very good cooling for your cpu.

ochungry said:

btw, this ram was $225 4 month ago.
PS: If I was you, I go get me a small window unit (A/C) and run a duct from CPU to it. Just kidding
But on the serious note this may not be a bad idea. Hope you have a very good cooling for your cpu.

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None other than....water!