Strong but with a limp..

Here is what I have gathered for my new system form new egg. Like I said my previous post, I need stability, speed and multitasking power but the price of the X2 has me making quality cuts all over the place. Now I'm at a point where my video card and hard drive have me limping.. acting as potential bottle necks. and this thing is already a tad bit more than I wanted to spend. What can I do?


AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum Ultra
OCZ Peroformance 2GB DDR400
POWERCOLOR R41AB-ND3 Radeon X700 256MB PCIE Video Card
Maxtor DiamondMax 200GB 7200RPM SATA150

LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM
NEC Black IDE DVD Burner Model ND-3540A
SAMSUNG Black 1.44MB Floppy Drive

SILVERSTONE SST-TJ05B-X Black Aluminum Case
THERMALTAKE TR2 430W PSU

Polyview V17E Silver-Black 17" 14ms LCD Monitor

I'm guessing I could downgrade to the 128MB version of the video card, I could drop $10 in going to OCZ Value but I'd loose the heat spreaders. The processor is nortorious however, but like I say I don't know how much of a multitasking difference there would be. I should goto bestbuy and circuit city and see if I can "feel" it.. if there are even any X2 systems on display.

If you don't lose timing you can safely ditch the heatspreaders. most the time they don't do much to cool the ram.
Also, try having a 3.0E presscott system w/ dual channel ram etc. and a 16meg video ram PCI Nvidia Vanta

Also, I doubt that the Thermaltake PSU can provide enough power, and is also (iirc) one of the untrustable modles. Check out the PSU buying sticky over in power.

Your tring to tell me that 450Watts isn't enough for that proposed system?? Well then how many watts are enough. Thanks for the heads up on the PSU tho.

I don't totally understand what you mean by if I don't loose timing I can ditch the heatspreaders. I know there is cheaper ram that doesn't have heat spreaders at all.

I need help people, I need to get this list finialized as soon as possible.

Wattage does not tell the whole story. To be short, I'd say look at a minimum of the fortron 500w, a very good powersupply.
HERE http://www.actbuy.com/details.asp?item=FS17500-2.0
OR
HERE http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=PS-FS500A
Also, since multitasking is so important, I suggest you go with pentium. For the videocard... i believe the 6600 bests the x700 and is in the same price range (unless you don't like nvidia then nevermind). Another option is to only get 1 stick of 1gb ram, then buy another stick later. Finally, unless for some reason it's mandatory that you have 2 drives, drop one, you probably don't need it.

Multitasking with a Dual core cpu will own an Intel Hyperthreading CPU. And, I’m not saying that 430W is not enough. I'm saying that ThermalTake can't be trusted for power supplies most the time. Check out http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=339732 for choosing a nice psu within your price range.

And, whether a RAM DIMM has a heat spreader or not means nothing. Its all about the RAM's timings.(CAS, RAS, etc) Newegg will list the ram's timings. What you really want is ram from a trusted manufacture with the lowest timings possible that still fits your budget.

Certainly any dual core machine will multitask excellently. Real SMP beats HT, even if HT is pretty nice.

The power supply is weak, as has been pointed out. The AX500-A Fortron mentioned is a practical minumum for this kind of machine, but even it may limit OCing. A Seasonic S12-600 would probably be ideal for this rig. And power supply wattages are ratings, next of kin to lies. Ratings are not measurements of output, and total wattage wouldn't really quantify the load driving ability of the supply, even if they were unerringly accurate.

Beyond this, looking at your configuration, there are several other things I would change. MSI boards are rife with unfinished edges and unresolved bios bugs. They can work, but they can also be a nightmare. And their DOA and failure-in-field rates were unnacceptable in the several attempts I made to use them in numbers. I eventually swore off MSI, they look good on the spec sheet and are cheap, but they aren't the quality of product you will get from Asus or Abit, which are better hardware with better bioses. DFI is another favorite of mine, but at times the bios situation can be as poor as it routinely is with MSI.

I also agree about the X700 video. I have a strong Nvidia preference, but even sweeping that aside, the X700 is an unimpressive card. I would recommend spending what an X800 of some sort would cost, or going to a 6600GT or 6800LE or NU.

You could certainly forego the DVD-ROM drive, it is not essential and could be added at any time. Not a huge cost savings, I know, but every little bit helps. I would recommend the LG Electronics GSA-4163B DVD burner over the NEC, as it is both a better burner and will lessen the advantage of a seperate DVD reader. The NEC is acceptable, but the LG is simply fantastic.

I hope you are realizing that your budget is simply not sufficient for a X2 machine of reasonable design and execution. All too often users decide that since they can't spend more than $5, or simply don't want to, that a $5 this, that, or the other is possible. My best advice is to be realistic about this, and either find more money for the project or back off on the CPU so you can do a better job on the rest of the system. Attempting to do too much with too little is a good way to waste what little you have.

It's not always about the wattage of a PSU that makes it good, it's the quality and reliabilty of it. Reliable brands of a PSU are Forton, Seasonic, OCZ, and PCP&C. Other brands such as Aspire and Thermaltake still work, but aren't as stable nor reliable for OCing. A cheap PSU to get is a simple Forton 500W for about $90, it has passive PFC and dual +12V

Drop the floppy for now, and drop another one of the DVD drives. Just get any drive that can work for CDs and use it as temporary.

Heatspreaders on RAM don't do anything. It's only useful if you have pretty hot ram such as Mushkin. Heatspreders are only useful if you have active cooling on it, like fans blow towards it, or some good amount of ventilation in your case.

You could get the Epox board, which has had great reviews and some say it's second in OCing to the DFI. The Epox board is about $10 less.

I would say the Geforce 6600 might be better then the X700, but if your against nVIDIA, then go with ATI.

Which processor:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16819103532,N82E16819103539&SubCategory=343

Should I get?

The 3700+ is a San Diego core, so it has 1MB L2 Cache, you won't feel much of a difference in gaming, and even for benchmarking, it'll give you a few more points. But regardless of that, it's still a great core.

Out of your choices, I would pick the 3700+, its the best choice if you don't have enough to afford the X2 3800+ or any of the FX chips.

Well to be blunt, if your planning to OC, the 3200+ can OC to speeds that are almost on par with the 3700+.

I have the 3400+ Clawhammer, and it only OCs to about 2557mhz with stock heatsink, but that's mainly because I have generic ram too.

darksparkz, thanks for responding.

I just noticed the retail 3500+ is cheaper than the OEM. WTF?

If the 3200 can barely touch the 3700 then maybe the 3500 can exceed the stock 3700 so I'll put that one on my list for now, and for now it will be the retail version too.


Also on a side note, I usually am working all night long and thats when the crazy stuff starts happening on new egg. Like right now prices are changing on me... again. This is fun.

For some reason needs to get rid of existing stock and the price of the retails become cheaper than the OEM's. If thats the case just grab the retail and keep the HSF. Regarding the 3200+ etc...What is recommended is usually a 3000+ or a 3200+ since they will most likely give you the same clocks as a more expensive 3500+ or 3700+

insigma....if your hardcore into multitasking and stuff look into getting some 1.6ghz LV xeons...they OC incredibly well. You can get a mobo, chips, and HSF's for 300 bucks and 2.8-3.0 is a standard OC when you do the wire mod (don't be afraid, it's easier than installing heatsinks). You'll be limited to 200fsb (800 quad pumped) and PC3200...but it's a hell of a platform and you can keep your 9700p (because the X700 is more of a sidestep than it is an upgrade).

- Changed to 3200+ OEM
- Picking cooler...

- Do you think I have too much memory?

The 3200+ has a multiplier of 10x
The 3000+ has a multiplier of 9x
Everything above that has a multiplier of 12x, I think, not too sure on that.

The 3000+, 3200+, 3500+, 3700+ all OC to nearly the same speeds on air, but as the processor increases, their potentials are also increased. For example, the 3700+ can hit about 3.5ghz on phase change, but the 3200+ can only hit about 3.2ghz on phase change?, something along those lines.

So yeah, on air cooling, they all OC to about the same speeds, maybe just a difference of at most, 70mhz between the 3000+ and 3700+.

But get something like a Clawhammer or San Diego core, since they have L2 Cache at 1MB, and that extra cache might may a little difference in multitasking performances.

ajrettke - This is a totally seperate computer so taking the 9700Pro isn't really an option.

darksparkz - Then it becomes the $190 3200+ 512Kb vs. $264 3700+ 1024Kb
A difference of $74. Not so sure about that yet. I'll think on it.

- Do you think I have too much memory? Should I shoot for 4 - 512MB Modules? How would that be as far as performance wise?

2GB isn't too much memory but it all depends on what you are going to be doing mainly. You are better off getting 2x1GB rather than 4x512 as you will need to set your memory at 2T with 4 sticks.

The lower all the numbers in the timing the better right?

Lower number in timing= Better performance, less OC
Higher number in timing= Less performance, more OC

2x1GB is recommend over 4x512. It runs better in two sticks, you can have dual channel, AND possibility of future upgrade.

In my current rig I have a FSP Group 530 Watt PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104968). The thing dies on me one day after close to a year of continuous operation. I had to run it in for an RMA to newegg. They got me a new one, I just hope after close to a year again it doesn't die.

Anyway...

Over the past few hours I've made some changes and am now at a much more respectable price overall:

- Changed PSU to ASPIRE ATX-AS500-SV 500W ; Big savings doing that.
- Changed Video Card to ABIT RX700PRO ; Upgrade in power
- Changed LCD to acer AL1715B Black 17" ; Black casing to match case.
- What are your feelings on the x700 vs. x700Pro?
- What Cooler should I get for my OEM 3200+ Venice?

darksparkz said:

Lower number in timing= Better performance, less OC
Higher number in timing= Less performance, more OC

Click to expand...

Sorry, but that is BULL. At stock speeds lower is ALWAYS better. You will almost always have to raising the timings on every stick of ram you buy when you clock it above stock speeds. Thus, lower is better so you will still have pretty good timings at an increased speed. Not to mention, most the chips that have decent times are underclocked DDR500 chips or something. Things like Mushkin's CL2 ram (Used to be TCCD, DDR500 chips clocked down to 400 for better timings) also have the tendancy to overclock quite well, partially becuase of what i've noted and also becuase... They just overclock well and like a little extra voltage.