What do you think?

[steveeb]

I'm currently trying to put together a new Intel system. Currently I'm running an old P3 933 and I think it's lifespan is just about up. My goal with this new computer is first, not break the bank, and secondly getting a system that will last me another 3-4 years.

I have read forums and reviews till my eyes cross and have come up with a list of components:

P4 820D
ASUS P5WD2 Premium
Corsair TWIN2X1024A6400 (DDR2-800)
BFG 6600GT OC
Dell 2005FPW monitor

What do you think of my picks so far?

I'm also hoping to overclock the 820D into the low 3's. The components I'm undecided on are the PSU (I'm leaning toward Antec True Blue 480W) and cooling system. I'm also not sure if the Corsair memory is the best for overclocking as I don't understand all the CAS number and what they mean. According to one site "This memory has been verified to operate at 800MHz at 5-5-5-12 latencies." is that good? or are lower numbers better?

[Jimbob7]

Welcome!

It's looking good, you may want to get a 6800GT, if you want the pc to last you another 3 years, although you can always upgrade. :)

You might want to get a slightly more powerful PSU, the 520W OCZ seem to be rather popular, just make sure its compatable with your motherboard.

Can't help you with the ram, i'm still in the DDR (1) ages. :)

More of a bump post really.

Scott.

[CarRamrod]

Those latency for the RAM isnt the best. A lot I have seen are CL4 or even CL3 for the high end ones. Any idea what your budget is around for this build?

[Stewie]

If longevity is your goal, and you are anything more than a casual gamer, you're going to want something more than a 6600GT. I have a feeling they won't even be able to run the next batch of games that will be released in the next 6 months.

Also consider the new version of Windows (Vista) is actually going to be pretty graphics-intensive. Transparencies, shadowing, and a few other new visual effects will require you to have at least a DX9 compliant card. Granted, that card is, but it's at the very bottom end ofthe new-generation cards. It's definetly not going to be able to keep up with the rest of your system.

[CarRamrod]

I agree. A 6800gt or ATI equivilant would be better to future proof it.

[steveeb]

Thanks for the replies:

I got the 820 today. Should get the P5WD2 Premium tomorrow. Still haven't ordered the ram or video.

I'm looking to spend no more that $200 on memory. Since I posted, I have been looking at other brands such as OCZ Gold and PQI. I'm leaning more toward the OCZ. The question now is: Would it be better to get the DDR2-800 or DDR2-667? After reading this forum, it seems that you can get good results from either either one.

As for the video card, I will take another look at the 6800GT. Although I'm not a real big gamer, and I really didn't want to spend that much, I do want a card that will last me a few years.

[batboy]

Nasgul already posted about everything I would say. Makes my job easier. ;)

To quickly recap, those dual core processors run a little warm. Consider getting a decent heatsink if you plan to overclock. Also make sure you have adequate case ventilation.

Power supply, don't skimp here. You need a 24-pin PSU that is stout enough to handle the high wattage of the dual core. The Fortron AX500-A is about the cheapest I'd recommend. I have an Antec 550w True Power 24-pin unit.

Ok, now for the RAM. For a modest overclock, you don't need the expensive DDR2-800 stuff. You do want RAM that will run at the 3:4 ratio. Good quality DDR2-667 RAM is all you need, like the Mushkin Extreme Performance series, Crucial, Corsair, OCZ, or PQI Turbo. I've been impressed with what I've seen with the 2X1024 PQI Turbo DDR2-667. Good RAM for a tight budget. Check out this Forum member review.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=410965

Video card. Of course make sure you get a PCI-E vid card. If you want to stay with Nvidia, then step up to the 6800GT if you can afford it. But, the vid card is something that can be easily upgraded later. So, if you are not a hardcore gamer, a good 6600GT will be good for now.

[steveeb]

I can't wait to finally put this thing together (see sig). It will replace my aging P3 933 (which will not overclock past 1GHz :bang head). I'm just waiting on the last of the parts before I can start. I'm hoping to get everything by Friday so I can build it over the weekend :p

[batboy]

Sweet... I noticed you took some of my advice too. That's going to be a huge jump in performance from your old P-III.

[steveeb]

Yep... Thanks BatBoy!

[dylskee]

Very nice setup steveeb! Let us know how you make out with your setup. I recently jumped on the dual core wagon and i'm pretty happy with it so far. :)

[steveeb]

Well, the memory I ordered last Wednesday still hasn't shipped (even though the site says it is "in-stock").

Needless to say, I cancelled the order this morning and purchased different memory from a different source. Hopefully, it is a better choice since I'm now paying about $75 more.

I'm getting the drives today, the memory tomorrow, and the PSU on Friday. Looks like the weekend's a go :)

[macklin01]

Keep us posted! :) -- Paul

[steveeb]

Well, I received everything I needed to put this thing together on Friday. I spent Friday evening and all of Saturday putting it together and getting the OS installed.

I had a few glitches:

At first, the computer would shut down automatically about 20-30 seconds after powering up. Was able to troubleshoot with the help of the good people on ocforums. By reseating the stock HS the problem was fixed.

Secondly, since this is my first Raid system, it took me a while to figure out how to set that up.

Finally after setting up the raid and installing W2K, I was presented with "Error Occurred (0)" under the drive status of Raid disk 0 when booting. I ran Scan Disk and everything checked out but I was still getting the error, removed the raid and started over. Good practice right?

After all that, here I am, running my brand spanking new P4 820D system :santa:

Even with no oc thing is SWEEEETTTT!!! I downloaded HDTach software because the first thing I wanted to know was how these two Hitachi drives stand up against Raptors (I originally wanted to get Raptors but it was not in the budget). I've seen bench marks for x4 of these drives, but not of two. My results 341.3MB/Second Burst Speed!

Now all I need is to replace this stock HS unit. I like the Zalman 9500 for looks but the XP120 for performance and price (but it's kinda ugly). Any opinions?

Secondly, I need to know from you, what software is good benchmarking software. I have Sandra, PCMark04, and HDTach. Anything else?

Thanks again everyone!

[dylskee]

Glad to see you got it up and running.... As far as benchmarking, just get pcmark05
3dmark03
3dmark05
superpi
That should be enough. Post your results when you get them.

[steveeb]

I just installed PC Probe II and all the temps (CPU, MB, Power) keep jumping around from 33, 42, 51, 60, 33, 42, 51, 60... They keep repeating that sequence every 1 second it changes.

Also the vCore is jumping between 1.50 and 1.62V.

Is this normal?

[steveeb]

Does anyone have any idea why the numbers keep jumping around on ASUS Probe? When I go into bios, I get steady temp and voltage readings.

Also, I ran HDTach on my Hitachi 7K80 SATA II drives - pretty decent results.

[ZL1]

Does anyone have any idea why the numbers keep jumping around on ASUS Probe? When I go into bios, I get steady temp and voltage readings.

Also, I ran HDTach on my Hitachi 7K80 SATA II drives - pretty decent results.

how bad/often do they jump ? temps and voltages usually fluctuate, but they shouldn't do it too much
by the way you can go to www.lavalys.com and get everest, another way to check temps/volts

D

[steveeb]

The temps jump every second... 33,42,51,60.. and repeats

I called ASUS tech support and they think it's a problem with the Super I/O on the motherboard. AI Booster is also not working (keep getting the message that AI Boost is disabled in BIOS). The motherboard just isn't communicating with the operating system.

I got an RMA and the board is unfortunately going back to ASUS.

[ZL1]

The temps jump every second... 33,42,51,60.. and repeats

I called ASUS tech support and they think it's a problem with the Super I/O on the motherboard. AI Booster is also not working (keep getting the message that AI Boost is disabled in BIOS). The motherboard just isn't communicating with the operating system.

I got an RMA and the board is unfortunately going back to ASUS.

yep those sure dont look like usual fluctuations, sorry to hear that, hope you get a new one soon

D

PS: by the way do they do the same in speedfan and everest ?

[steveeb]

I downloaded SpeedFan & Everest and the numbers look fine.

Temp 1: 34C
Temp 2: 66C
Temp 3: 47C

Both programs reflect similar results.

They only flucuate 1 or 2 degrees depending on what I'm doing on the computer which makes me wonder if it's a software/compatibility problem rather than a hardware problem. I would assume PC Probe gets the numbers from the same place.

Are these numbers (66C+ for CPU) normal for a non overclocked 820 with the stock HSF? I've ordered the SI-120 and it will be here tomorrow or Thursday. The ambient temperature of the room is quite warm (80F+).

[ZL1]

I downloaded SpeedFan & Everest and the numbers look fine.

Temp 1: 34C
Temp 2: 66C
Temp 3: 47C

Both programs reflect similar results.

They only flucuate 1 or 2 degrees depending on what I'm doing on the computer which makes me wonder if it's a software/compatibility problem rather than a hardware problem. I would assume PC Probe gets the numbers from the same place.

Are these numbers (66C+ for CPU) normal for a non overclocked 820 with the stock HSF? I've ordered the SI-120 and it will be here tomorrow or Thursday. The ambient temperature of the room is quite warm (80F+).

sure looks like a soft problem, you can try asus again and see what they say

yep those dual cores run hot, after all its like trying to cool two cpus with a single hsf

EDIT: I dont mean its ok for them to run high temps, I mean you need good cooling to run them

D

[steveeb]

Ok, I thought I'd just go for it and do a little overclocking. I was cautious at first, due to my high temp readings, but eventually got it up to 240x14 (3.36GHz). I ran SuperPi a few times and it never went over 70C which I thought was pretty good since my non-oc temps were arount 65-67C.

I'm still waiting for my SI-120. This household fan I have blasting at it doesn't do anything but cool the motherboard components by about 10-12C. It has no effect on the CPU temp. I'm hoping the new HS will get the temps down at least into the 50's and then I'll really crank up the FSB.

-- now for some inner thoughts --
After running 3DMark a few times and only getting as high as 3854, I'm beginning to wonder if I should have gone for the 6800 video card? However, when I check the prices for a 6800GT on pricegrabber, I quickly get snapped back to reality. $330+ on a video card that will probably be obsolete in a couple years if not sooner?!?!? I'll keep my 6600GT, my lousy 3854 score, and the $150+ difference :)
--

[ZL1]

Ok, I thought I'd just go for it and do a little overclocking. I was cautious at first, due to my high temp readings, but eventually got it up to 240x14 (3.36GHz). I ran SuperPi a few times and it never went over 70C which I thought was pretty good since my non-oc temps were arount 65-67C.

I'm still waiting for my SI-120. This household fan I have blasting at it doesn't do anything but cool the motherboard components by about 10-12C. It has no effect on the CPU temp. I'm hoping the new HS will get the temps down at least into the 50's and then I'll really crank up the FSB.

-- now for some inner thoughts --
After running 3DMark a few times and only getting as high as 3854, I'm beginning to wonder if I should have gone for the 6800 video card? However, when I check the prices for a 6800GT on pricegrabber, I quickly get snapped back to reality. $330+ on a video card that will probably be obsolete in a couple years if not sooner?!?!? I'll keep my 6600GT, my lousy 3854 score, and the $150+ difference :)
--

run a 3dmark at stock speed, Im having a thought here

by the way is this on a fresh windows install ? latest drivers ?

D

P.S. test cpu with dual prime

[steveeb]

Yep it's a clean W2K install. I installed the drivers that came with the card... good thought, I'll check to see if they are the latest.

3dmark at stock is 3387.

Where do I find this "dual prime"? I've tried searching via google with no success.

[ZL1]

Yep it's a clean W2K install. I installed the drivers that came with the card... good thought, I'll check to see if they are the latest.

3dmark at stock is 3387.

Where do I find this "dual prime"? I've tried searching via google with no success.

you can dl prime from http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm
then run a second instance using the command line prime95.exe -a1
before you start go to: menu>advanced>affinity and set each instance of prime to a separate core
then run the "small ffts" test on each instance

if you want to check your ram you need to go to http://www.memtest.org/ and dl memtest

also take a look at this thread http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=411387

D

[batboy]

I would not run Prime until you get better cooling. That's just to be 100% sure you are stable, but it will also run your system pretty hot. You can almost always get better 3Dmark scores with the latest "official" vid card drivers. I usually update them every few months. Also, if this is a fresh Wimdows install, make sure you have the latest DirectX installed too (I think DirectX 9C is still the latest version which can be downloaded from Microsoft). I'm assuming you were running 3Dmark using default vid catd settings. If you adjust all the sliders to "performance" you can increase the scores too. I don't leave the settings on performance, because I like having good video quality. Also, you can always O/C the vid card a little at some point in time.

[steveeb]

Ok, I got my SI-120 and installed it - mostly. The fan package states that it's a "PC Case and CPU Fan" however, it only has a 3 pin connector where as a CPU Fan connector on the motherboard is 4 pin. How to hook it up? Right now I have it on one of the case fan connections, but when I boot up, the board doesn't recognize a CPU fan and I get an error.

My temps went from 68C idle down to 41C idle.

[ZL1]

Ok, I got my SI-120 and installed it - mostly. The fan package states that it's a "PC Case and CPU Fan" however, it only has a 3 pin connector where as a CPU Fan connector on the motherboard is 4 pin. How to hook it up? Right now I have it on one of the case fan connections, but when I boot up, the board doesn't recognize a CPU fan and I get an error.

My temps went from 68C idle down to 41C idle.

thats odd, usually the mobo header is 3 pin, you sure you're not mixing them up ?
you can disable the error via bios, it has a setting called "fan fail alarm" somewhere, I think in the hardware monitor section

nice temps, what fan are you running ? thats quite a drop


D

[batboy]

The new LGA775 mobos have a 4 pin motherboard header for the CPU fan. You can still plug in a 3 pin fan and it'll work fine.

[ZL1]

The new LGA775 mobos have a 4 pin motherboard header for the CPU fan. You can still plug in a 3 pin fan and it'll work fine.

didnt know, whyd they do that ?


D

[steveeb]

After reinstalling W2K for the third time, everything seems to be working. I installed the AI Probe and AI Booster right after a clean install and the SP4 update. That seemed to do the trick. Both AI Probe and AI Booster are working fine now.

At the moment I'm at 3.23GHz and idling at 44C as opposed to 68C at 2.8GHz with the stock HSF. I could probably get it lower with better case fans or even a better case.

To answer ZL1's question, the fan I'm using is a ThermalTake 120mm Smart Case Fan c/blue led. According to the specs, it delivers ~94cfm at 2800rpm. I have it at full speed.

[ZL1]

After reinstalling W2K for the third time, everything seems to be working. I installed the AI Probe and AI Booster right after a clean install and the SP4 update. That seemed to do the trick. Both AI Probe and AI Booster are working fine now.

At the moment I'm at 3.23GHz and idling at 44C as opposed to 68C at 2.8GHz with the stock HSF. I could probably get it lower with better case fans or even a better case.

To answer ZL1's question, the fan I'm using is a ThermalTake 120mm Smart Case Fan c/blue led. According to the specs, it delivers ~94cfm at 2800rpm. I have it at full speed.

:beer:

[Know Nuttin]

didnt know, whyd they do that ?


D

4th pin is for pwm. Bios will control the fan speeds according to temps.

[steveeb]

My next question is about case & cpu fans

Right now I have this 94cfm cpu fan. On my case are 2 80mm fans (one in, one out) that output ~33cfm each. If I have 33 cfm coming in and 33 cfm going out and a fan inside pulling and pushing 94cfm, the air for the CPU fan has to come and go somewhere. Am I correct in my thinking when I say that this CPU fan is rendering my other two fans virtually useless? And that the CPU fan is basically sucking air and pushing air out of every opening in the case including the case fans themselves?

I would think that I would need case fans with output greater than or equal to the CPU fan output in order to get the best circulation. Makes sense to me, but I could be wrong.

[batboy]

Well, you are right that it would be better to increase air flow through the case. Having a high CFM CPU fan is probably causing partial recirculation, so the air is partially warmed up from the first pass through the heatsink and then some of this warm air gets passed through the sink again. If you have an intake in front and exhaust in back, then one possible solution is to cut a blowhole in the side cover. Put the rear fan in the side cover as another intake and get a higher CFM fan for the rear of the case. The PSU does have an exhaust fan too, so the rear exhaust don't have to equal 66 CFM exactly, but something in the 40-50 CFM range would be good. If you look at my cheap case cooling mods, I put another blowhole in the top of my case for exhaust, so I have 4 equal CFM case fans (2 intakes front and side, plus 2 exhausts top and rear). The trouble with cutting a top hole is you have to remove all your components first to keep metal shavings from ruining something.

[Chuck D Sanders]

Has anyone had any luck with the 830d on the P5WD2 backing down the multiplyer to say 12 and then the FSB to 1066+??? I haven't been able to set it through AI booster and I can't find any manual multiplier in the bios... and sugestions?

[steveeb]

I just cranked the 820D (using Ai boost which I finally got to work) up to 3.64GHz (260x14). I'm idling around 49C and am currently running dual prime95 and it's measuring 58C. So far so good :)

[steveeb]

Still running at 3.64GHz, however, I am now setting the bios manually. I found AI Booster didn't necessarily set it optimally.

Using AI Booster to overclock to 3.64 (+30%) I got a SuperPi mod1.4 result of 40.369s for 1M decimals. Setting the bios manaully I got a 36.500s. I have yet to run dual prime to check stability on this configuration.

My idle temperature is hovering at 52C, but I have to keep my case open (I don't have sufficient "fan power". My office also gets a bit toasty after running this thing for a while. If I close my case we're talking 59C. Obviously, I need more fans so I'm considering doing a "Batboy" case modification to add a couple 120mm fans.

Anyhow, overall, I think I can count this project a sucess! Thanks to everyone for all the helpful feedback! :cool:

[xTrEmEoVrClOcKr]

Great results so far, nice system :).