Best "bang for buck" folding farm layer

[dwschoon]

With the current WU assignment, what is the best bang for buck system to build for F@H. Im thinking of a low multi Celeron D overclocked to at least 200fsb folding QMD's. Are there better options? I figured that at cheapest I can get cpu, mobo, and memory for $150. What would be a good Mobo with integrated video. These computers will do nothing but fold. I probably wont even put them in a case.

[samuraisam]

From my experiences the Celeron D's do to pretty good.

But the A64's do about the same and use less power (I also have one of these). It's up to you.

-Sam

[man_utd]

Personally would go for cheapie a64s, but celerons can work.

[ChasR]

If you get a Celeron D 2.26 to a 200 MHz FSB you can expect about 120ppd/GHz (about 400ppd) every day on QMDs. The A64s, limited to the current mix of WUs, will return about 60ppd/GHz on Gromacs and GBgromacs, 85ppd/GHz on Tinkers and Ambers, 125 ppd on most big WUs, and 185 to 210 ppd/GHz on p1475-p1481. Oc'd to a respectable 2.6 GHz the A64 gets blown away, on average, by the Celeron D. If QMDs run out the tables turn. The Celeron will be at around 40ppd/GHz on Gromacs, GBGromacs, Tinkers, Ambers and around 75-80 on big WUs. There is no guarantee the Celeron Ds you buy will OC to 3.4 GHz. I think you've got to get the FSB to at least 180 to avoid bottlenecking the cpu due to lack of memory bandwidth. Bottlenecked Celerons fold at about 95 ppd/GHz.

[AlabamaCajun]

<clip> If QMDs run out the tables turn. <clip>
I gather the QMDs were released to keep Intel from putting the squeeze on Stanford for showing that AMD was superior before the 800s hit the market. I know it sounds like a conspieracy but hey in todays corporate run world order you march to their drum or else!
"All my extra rig money belongs to AMD!"

[davekusa]

I've been buying used P4 mobile Prescott's off of eBay. my last system cost 410.
(including case, keyboard, mouse, 80 gig HD, video card, 512 memory). Putting out 550 PPD.

If you really frugal, I'm sure you could get close to 300.

I've got a place in town I can pick up used CD ROM and hard drives for under 10

I looked at going the cheep way (AMD duron). It just seemed better price per point to go this way. If I fall on hard times I'm sure I can unload my 410 system for 600-700 on eBay.

[Silver]

Cheap celly d (I am using a 2.26), P4P800 (not se) board (dumpinggoods) and a 420w psu or so (I am using a 350w) oc'd to 200 with patriot 2,3,2,5 (2x256) is getting 430 to 450 PPD on qmds. SE board has the vdimm limited to 2.85 thus limiting things. P4P800 has a work around I believe.

[Arkaine23]

Hmmm I still like the $150ish AMD XP mobile 2400+ on a cheap NF2 board that has integrated everything and can set FSB to 200. 2500mhz AMD XP? (Yes, please)

[Posidon42]

I am currenly looking to add to my folding computers and am running into the same problem. I really don't want to spend more than $200 on cpu, mobo and memory so what should I get? My mobile AMD XP really doesn't seem to be doing all that well. According to EMIII, my processor is getting about 250ppd @ 2.4ghz. I have been looking into some of the recent Frys deals and a 3.0ghz P4 with mobo for $150 sounds ok to me.

Is there a listing somewhere of what we can expect each type of processor to do so I can determine whether I want to stick with my AMDs or go Intel?

[walaka7]

For long term expense (electricity+initial cost) I think the dothan reigns king. 21 watts for 1.6 ghz and overclocked to 2.8 is still under 40 watts. While on some wu's its weak (SO so on QMD's and soft on tinkers) there are some projects out there that allow mine to outperform just about anything out there at 900 ppd. Even the crappy one i got (2.4 ghz oc'd) still knocks down 750 ppd

[Posidon42]

ok, so based on what you guys have said in here so far, do you think I would be happy with this combo:

Foxconn 648FX4MR-ES (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186047) $32.99
Intel Celeron D 315 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819112196) $61.00
512 of memory either single stick or dual channel ~$40

Opinions??

[jstutman]

if someone can link me to the best "bang for the buck" as far as cases go, (shipping kills me everywhere). i could add 2-3 more rigs easily.

[Posidon42]

heh, just make a run to your local hardware store and build a cheap 1/4" plywood case. Then run to your local "mom and pop" computer store and buy some ATX power switches. I have had good luck getting a handful of these for a buck or two. Of course, that is before I moved to CA, so I don't have any good resources here yet. Anyway, that is what I did to set up my folding farm.

[z0n3]

Get some free boxes from the post office. Best cases you cant get :)

[jstutman]

boxes it is :D

so which motherboard for a 2.6 512/800 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135168

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186047#DetailSpecs

[Posidon42]

ok, last question.. for now :)

I have two options in front of me. I either get the foxconn / celeronD combo I mentioned in my earlier post for ~$100 shipped or I can get a 3.0ghz P4 / Asrock combo for $150 shipped. Which one is the best bang for the buck?

Right now I am kindof leaning more towards the celeron combo, but I would like to know what you guys think.

[dwschoon]

Isnt it better to build farm rigs with boards that include onboard video?

[Posidon42]

well I plan to run them diskless using the LTSP client so once they are set up and stable, I can remove the video card, disable everything else and just have them run off the network. It is nice because then you don't have to have a hard drive or a cdrom drive to fold with.

[Silver]

Gotta tell ya that with a package deal, I would go with the p4 as the celeron d is going to need a board capable of clocking it up a good deal to get efficient production out of it. P4 is going to be the easiest solution and using clockgen you might move it up some over that 3 ghz and get some real good production out of it.

[ChasR]

What Silver said. BTW, good to see you back Silver. At stock the P4 will outpoint the Celeron D by a lot, 140ppd/GHz to 95ppd/GHz.

[Posidon42]

ok, that is what I was looking for. thanks guys!

[Silver]

What Silver said. BTW, good to see you back Silver. At stock the P4 will outpoint the Celeron D by a lot, 140ppd/GHz to 95ppd/GHz.

Thank you. Brought the xeons back up today. Should put up some points tommorow. Nothing is clocked as high but four of the five boxes are up. Now to find some one to play with. MJW and psyshack kind of got away from me during my hiatus.

[dwschoon]

ok, last question.. for now :)

I have two options in front of me. I either get the foxconn / celeronD combo I mentioned in my earlier post for ~$100 shipped or I can get a 3.0ghz P4 / Asrock combo for $150 shipped. Which one is the best bang for the buck?

Right now I am kindof leaning more towards the celeron combo, but I would like to know what you guys think.

Is the p4 combo through an online dealer?

[Posidon42]

sort of. These combos I am looking at are from Frys. I found a local newspaper that posts their daily ads online here: Frys ads (http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=2089791). Todays combo is ok, but last week they had the same mobo with a 3.0 for $149, not a 2.8. Yesterday they had a 3.2 with mobo for $179 that I almost got but I couldn't get to the store.

[dwschoon]

ahh. what i wouldnt give to live near a frys. outpost.com is the closest i can get to one, but they are more expensive.

[ChasR]

We have a Fry's near us but I found them to be far more expensive than newegg, zipzoomfly, ecost and just about all the online retailers. On a linksys WRT54GX MIMO wireless router Fry's was $179, new egg $133. A Linksys MIMO NIC Frys was $119, newegg $95. Newegg shipping was less than sales tax.

[Posidon42]

for most things I would agree with you, but I was able to get some cheap cdrom drives for $9, and newegg can't touch the prices that I can get these combos for. It is pretty much buy a processor get a motherboard free. While I agree that the mobos aren't the best, I can't buy from newegg anymore. Since I now live in CA, I have to pay shipping AND sales tax to buy from the egg... :( At least if I buy from Fry's, I only have to pay sales tax

[pscout]

I wish i had the same options here in Canada ... have found some good used combos on local newsgroup ... but not much current stuff at decent prices

[@md0Cer]

You can get a Venice with 256K L2 cache in S754 form for 59.99 at Newegg a.k.a. Sempron 64.

It has a multiplier of 7, so if should be able to hit around 350HTT or so with a good 754 board, still could be found pretty cheap. You could be looking at a decent 2.5GHz L2 halfed Venice with a board for around 120 bucks.

[muddocktor]

For long term expense (electricity+initial cost) I think the dothan reigns king. 21 watts for 1.6 ghz and overclocked to 2.8 is still under 40 watts. While on some wu's its weak (SO so on QMD's and soft on tinkers) there are some projects out there that allow mine to outperform just about anything out there at 900 ppd. Even the crappy one i got (2.4 ghz oc'd) still knocks down 750 ppd


I tend to agree with walaka7 on this too, except that if you have some high performance ram where you can get good memory bandwidth, the Sonoma series P-M procs will do well with the QMD work too. You have to get the memory bandwidth up for optimium performance on the QMD work though. And the next version of the client is supposed to be fixed so that the P-M procs will be able to draw QMD work from the assignment server.

[dwschoon]

I wonder about the celeron d 326 discussed in this thread. (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=4032194#post4032194) It does 200fsb for 3.8ghz on stock voltage, has emt64 support, and only costs $77.50 at newegg. There is also the p4 506 which is $119 and has emt64 plus 1mb cache.

[AlabamaCajun]

While on a hunt for what to use to plant my farm in I came accross a neat item that could be used. This one is at WallyWorld but you may find these elsewhere.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2164266

My thought is that the shelves are of the perfect size and height to hold mobos with heatsinks 10 by 17 inches of usable room per shelf. With 10 shelves, its enough to hold 8 boards and 4 psus assuming 8 for the boards and 2 psus each on the other 2 shelves. I'm still looking ;)

[z0n3]

For $40 you could build better than that. Get some plywood from the local hardware store. Then you can build to the size you need.

[Posidon42]

true, but that takes time and effort. This is all ready to go as soon as you put it together :)

[z0n3]

Putting together the farm will take time and effort. :p

[AlabamaCajun]

http://www.mindspring.com/~alabamacajun/farmcabinet.gif

This is what I'm thinking of building.
I have the wood, shutter doors and glass.

The dimensions in inched are 18W x 12D x 54H or about 58" high with casters.

[damarble]

boxes it is :D

so which motherboard for a 2.6 512/800 ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135168

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186047#DetailSpecs

I had a 2.4 Celeron in that Foxconn mobo, and it sucked. The performace was absolutly horrible compared the the Abit mobo I had used before with the same CPU. And the OC options for the Foxconn are laughable. No vcore and FSB up to 199 only for the Celeron.

[Posidon42]

I had a 2.4 Celeron in that Foxconn mobo, and it sucked. The performace was absolutly horrible compared the the Abit mobo I had used before with the same CPU. And the OC options for the Foxconn are laughable. No vcore and FSB up to 199 only for the Celeron.


Well I am glad I ended up buying a combo from someone here on the forums.

As for that cabinet in the above thread, it looks good, but make sure you have adequate airflow. Especially if you are going to keep the layers horizontal. I built a custom enclosure for 6 layers one time using mATX boards and I mounted them all on some 1/8" plywood vertically. I could still pull individual layers out if I wanted to and the heat always had somewhere to go that didn't affect the other layers. I would advise against using the front doors on the cabinet too. Just my $0.02 :)

[Joe Camel]

http://www.mindspring.com/~alabamacajun/farmcabinet.gif

This is what I'm thinking of building.
I have the wood, shutter doors and glass.

The dimensions in inched are 18W x 12D x 54H or about 58" high with casters.

wow NICE!!

no duct-tape or coardboard....

cooling:
if you had 2-3x 120mm fans mounted through the plate that divides the "glass 1/2" from the "wood 1/2" right up in front blowing UP
then stagger / step the "layers"....guess its time to show my paint skilz :rolleyes:

BRB with art-work...

thought of another option... and/or fans from the back with top exhaust:

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/3536/farmair2rv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

side view, NTS (lol)


now on to the wal-mrt rack idea...
here is my cheep-o-rack:


http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3852/pict03228zv.jpg


the end-table is just a temporary setup, i plan on having a rig in the middle of these 2x
(the middle rack would be about 16" tall)
thats scrap 3/4" MDF

[AlabamaCajun]

I was thinking along the same lines with simple wood dividers but the wife got on my case about mobos sitting open on wood or shelves. The cabinet got approval.
Thanks for the airflow tips, Joe has a great Idea since the mobos can be placed so that the HSF is just sticking out where the shelf above does not block it. All HSFs will blow up except the top board which will blow down. This should facilitate upward flow and these boards don't have much heat on the MOSFETS, I'll sink them. Another option I've been kicking around the room is a labarynth of openings to direct airflow to each board with at least two 90 fans I will start with 2 layers, an Athlon 2100 and a P3-1.2G Tualatin and minimal graphics. This will give me some time before I add a P3-800 Copper. No forth board is planed yet so I have time to play with airflow and heat problems. I think I'll put the PSUs up in the top and add about 4 inches to the height, this would increase airflow. I've run the P3s in cases with just one sucking 80mm fan and the only heat they created was the PSU. When I oc them then I'll need extra cooling.

[Quailane]

For long term expense (electricity+initial cost) I think the dothan reigns king. 21 watts for 1.6 ghz and overclocked to 2.8 is still under 40 watts. While on some wu's its weak (SO so on QMD's and soft on tinkers) there are some projects out there that allow mine to outperform just about anything out there at 900 ppd. Even the crappy one i got (2.4 ghz oc'd) still knocks down 750 ppd

Under load, venices will use the same power. Intel does their power ratings at 80% load, while AMD does it at 100%, what it would be folding.

[walaka7]

Under load, venices will use the same power. Intel does their power ratings at 80% load, while AMD does it at 100%, what it would be folding.

Close perhaps, but the turion would be a closer comparision to being the "same" in power conumption, at least in the real world tests done so far. Also givin the oc ability of the dothan vs the venice, one would be hard pressed to rule it out as the "best" folding investment.

Performace wise. The dothan and the venice appear to be pretty close in terms of ppd/ghz. Except of course in the areas of the 147x-1481 and of course QMD's. and tinkers where the venice has a real advantage. In the next revision, the dothan will be able to get QMD's, There is not much hope for AMD's to get them any time soon. ALso tinkers are likely to be phased out, another AMD edge. Now the dothan is weak at stock with QMD's. But overclocked, and with good memory, it appears that muddoktor has been able to overcome the bandwidth issue that killed the dothan on QMD's. This, of course, is another thing to consider when making a folding choice.

One thing about the venice though, it should be cheaper to set up. Overall a nice choice for folding. the best bag for the buck?... Well thats what this thread is for :D