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PrometheuSBoxeR

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Okay, let me start off by telling you a little bit about myself. I find that this helps get results im looking for in a new thread. Im 17, and am a senior at Hershey High School. I've been into computers for about 5 years now. Normally every night I will be on either ocforums, hardforums, or xtremesystems reading, reading, reading. I beleive this is the best way to get the best results. My first built system (Rig A) was put together about 6 months ago. Every part was bought new from newegg.

Specs on Rig A:
Case: ASPIRE X-Navigator
Motherboard: ASUS A8N-SLi Deluxe
PSU: ASPIRE 500W
Processor: AMD 64 3500+ NewCastle
CPU Cooler: Stock
Video Card: XFX 6800GT
GPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling NV 5 Silencer Rev.1
Memory: Corsair XMS 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 400
HDD: 10,000RPM 74GB Western Digital Raptor
Drive Bay 1: Lite-On DVD ROM
Drive Bay 2: Lite-On DVD Burner
Drive Bay 3: Nexus Fan Controller
Drive Bay 4: Nothing
3.5" 1: Nothing
3.5" 2: Nothing
Soundcard: Onboard
Mouse: MSFT IntelliExplore 1.1A
Mousepad: X-RAYPAD Thunder 9
Keyboard: MSFT Standard PS/2
Thermal Paste: Arctic Silver 5

Now that I have shared with you my old rig. Let me tell you the story. I was still pretty amateur in computers when I had purchased those computer parts, I was not near as well informed about computers as I am today. I strictly wanted a gaming computer, because me and 2-3 of my friends are computer gamers and we like to have a good time. We are always in competition and im constantly explaining to them about computers in one way or another. I spent about 1600 dollars 6 months ago on that computer. I recently have just sold it for 1400 dollars. I have been saving for some time now, and have accumulated $3000.00 USD (Please remember this is spending money) However, I have no intentions to spend all of the money, but Im just informing you its there. I have decided that Im going to be putting together a second PC. I do not have plans to sell this one off after 6 months, or upgrade it in 6 months. I am turning 18 very soon, and hopefully going to Penn State UPark for Business/Finance this comming summer.

My goals for a new computer:
A. Built professional looking
B. Good wire management
C. Near top of the line, if not top of the line.
D. Future-Proof
E. Definitly gaming capabilities
F. Relative quietness (My last computer was darn near very noisy)

I have a good general idea of whats going on in the world of computers, and computer parts. However there are still things that I have not yet experienced or have yet to encounter enough to learn about them. Watercooling is one example. I've done the air thing, I've done the stock thing. I am now looking towards Overclocking and getting the most out of my system, while maintaining a professional appearance, stablity, and safe hardware. The last thing I want is to do is spend a lot of money, and ruin it by a small mistake. There are tons of other things which I have yet to experience or am unknowledgable about, but that is besides the point. Looking into buying new hardware, I am evaluating all my options before committing. Like I said earlier, once this is done, its done. There is no turning back. I basicly want to plan my purchase as best as possible, and get my moneys worth. The following list (Rig B) is a list of components I myself have my eyes set on so far.

Case: Lian Li PC-V2000 Black
Motherboard: DFI LanParty NF4 SLI-DR
Powersupply: OCZ 520W PowerStream
Watercooling Kit: Swifttech Apex Heavy Duty H20
GPU WC Block: DD Maze 4
Processor: AMD 64 X2 4400+ Toledo
Video Card: eVGA 7800GTX
Memory: 2GB (2 x 1GB) Crucial Ballistix DDR500 PC4000
HDD: (x2) Maxtor Maxline III 250GB 16MB Cache SATA
Drive Bay 1: NEC DVD ROM
Drive Bay 2: NEC DVD Burner
Drive Bay 3: Nexus Fan Controller
Drive Bay 4-6: Nothing
Drive Bay 7: 3.5" Floppy
Soundcard: Creative Soundblaster X-Fi
Speakers: Still Looking
Mouse: Logitech MX518
Mousepad: RAZER eXact Mat
Keyboard: MSFT Standard PS/2
Thermal Paste: Arctic Silver 5

Now that you see what I have my eyes set on so far, you know everything is still in pencil. It is why I am here posting this in the first place. I have a few questions to ask that I follow through with a comment, that I would like to consolidate into this list - Hopefully all of them can get awnsered in one way or another:

Will I have trouble fitting a OCZ 520W PS into the V2000?
- I hear that some people have to use a Dremel to make room for the 520W PS

Will I do better buying everything seperate instead of a WC kit?
-WC'ing is not my strongest area, this will be my first time using it

DFI LanParty SLI-DR, is it a good choice, or should I go with a DFI Ultra-D?
-I have no plans in the near near future to run SLI. I read many benchmarks and preformance gains are minimal even from 2 7800GTX's vs. 1 7800GTX. I guess this has to do with bottlenecking, and the code of the games. Not worth the extra 500 dollars right now in my eyes, mabey later.

Dual Core?
-Everyone has thier mixed opinions on lets say the 4400+ X2 or my other option a single core CPU the AMD 64 4000+ San Diego. Both OC considerably well from reading reviews. I am looking in the near future at games like Quake 4. Q4 is to be released retail in October. Odds are its going to get kicked back some, but however the engine its running on is already becomming Multi-Threaded. Like I said earlier I don't plan on making a upgrade in the near future. This is my college rig+

Is it worth going 74GB Raptor vs. Something in the general area of a Maxtor Maxline III?
-In Rig A. I had a raptor, It was pretty nice to have, but I couldn't really tell a noticable difference when using my other friends computers. They had standard Seagate 7200RPM 8MB cache HDD's. Is there a reason for this mabey? I feel so far that the preformance gains are minimal. Having 2 HDD's allows me to possibly Raid 0, or just have one for OS and other files that are not accessed often. A second for Media/Games. Something along those lines.

Speakers, never used them?
-In Rig B, you could still see I am looking into speakers, I always have used headphones. My gaming is late at night and I do not wish to disturb the parents, or anyone else sleeping near me. There are plenty of times though I wish I had a good pair of speakers, to jam to while im doing misc stuff, or gaming during the day. Any suggestions in this aspect?

How is the MX518?
-Logitech G5 Laser mouse seems to be a dissapointment to most, and the Copperhead seems to be too expensive for how it feels, and what it offers. I picked the MX518 because I plan to invest in something that I know that works well, and gets the job done. Anything really is a upgrade as I was comming from a standard oldschool IntelliExplore mouse.

Is the eXact mat the best mousepad for the MX518?
-Don't get me wrong RAZER makes good products, however thier products I have a feeling.. they are made for RAZER products. Not Logitech. Mabey someone with better experiences can recommend a better mousepad.
Last question, Watercooling and moving it around?

-My parents being divorced for over a year now, forces me to go between 2 houses. I choose to go to each house every other sunday. Allowing me 2 weeks at each house. My computer comes with me, and I want to make sure that my WC will not leak on me or ruin anything in the process of being in the car for 20 minutes+ every two weeks.

Now that I have gotten those questions off my chest, and consolidated them for everyone. They should be pretty easy to pick out and awnser. You can see exactly where I stand, and what options I am a looking at. I come to you for any information what so ever to help lead me to a better decision and plan in purchasing new computer parts. Keep in mind my goals, my last PC, and what I picked out. Also don't forget about those questions.

PS: Id' like to make this more then an experience just for me, but to include your guys thoughts and opinons, so dont feel threatened to post anything. I look at every angle.

Thanks everyone at OCForums,
PrometheuSBoxeR
 
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long post... i'll try to answer a few in the time i have right now. the Apex Kit uses the Swiftech Radbox which mounts the Radiator in the back which might leak if you drive a little rough. As for the Raptors, they are no longer the "best of the best" as any hd with a 16mb buffer can usually do just as good as a job. I would go for 2x 500gb Seagate 7200.9 hard drives cause once you're in college and you have that awesome internet connection, you'll be downloading EVERYTHING. The Powerstream 520 is an awesome PSU and I haven't had any trouble mounting it inside a P180 so the V2000 should be fine for it.

Videocard choice isn't very good right now because although a 7800gtx is top of the line, come nov 1, the new X1k line will be out and tests show that an overclocked x1800xt can easily beat 2x 7800gtx in SLI. If you're going to go dual-core(which is highly recommended as it will be used in games soon) i'd go with a 3800+ manchester which can easily oc to 4400+ speeds.

Right now, If I were you, I would really consider the new Shuttle SLI SFF coming out soon and just putting a single 7800gtx in there with a 4400+ toledo or a manchester. Those psu's can handle anything you throw at them and the size of an SFF is nice seeing as how you're going to college and everything.

-1cem4n
 
My advice is to drop the WCing....with so much moving around, the potential for a leak increases greatly. I know WCing is fun, I used to do it, but the hassle of filling/bleeding, worrying etc for minimal results wasn't worth it. (think about how much more WCing is...it's often more then just getting the faster CPU/GPU...and sockets are changing so quickly that you can't keep the same hardware most of the time.

Video card...oh don't wait for the 1XK....nvidia is developing the xuys3rf...but wait ATI has they're rr23io4898235 slated for delivery 10 years from now which will blow all of those super computers outa the water.....you can wait....but they'll always be somethign around the corner, you have to bite the bullet or your never gonna buy anything.

Speakers, kinda hard to say since your moving around so much you probably don't want a full 5.1 setup. Let us know what your lookin for...

What is your monitor? I'd recommend getting the best monitor you can buy since this will last for a while...and with all your traveling and stuff...definetly a LCD
 
if your really move around this much get a shuttle system with 1 HD for gaming. build a second cheap comp as your storage server you can leave in college (as in cheap= athlon, 256MB ram etc without HD you can get something for $250), get a monitor keyboad switch thing so you dont need 2 monitors etc. when you are in college.

Think about it, those shuttle systems are small, quiete, fast as hell and portable. And you dont need 2 DVD drives, trust me I hadly use my 2 drives, 1 is enough. And they are cool :)

Raptors: Not worth it.

Mousepad and mouse: God depends ...... I went through 3 mouse pads and 5 mince in 2 years. Try before you buy, but thats impossible since you need to test for a while.

Important: Get a nice screen, keyboard, mouse and CHAIR! that is the really important stuff since you wont upgrade these for a while.

PS: Onboard sound sucks (me audiophile)
 
1cem4n said:
long post... i'll try to answer a few in the time i have right now. the Apex Kit uses the Swiftech Radbox which mounts the Radiator in the back which might leak if you drive a little rough. As for the Raptors, they are no longer the "best of the best" as any hd with a 16mb buffer can usually do just as good as a job. I would go for 2x 500gb Seagate 7200.9 hard drives cause once you're in college and you have that awesome internet connection, you'll be downloading EVERYTHING. The Powerstream 520 is an awesome PSU and I haven't had any trouble mounting it inside a P180 so the V2000 should be fine for it.

Videocard choice isn't very good right now because although a 7800gtx is top of the line, come nov 1, the new X1k line will be out and tests show that an overclocked x1800xt can easily beat 2x 7800gtx in SLI. If you're going to go dual-core(which is highly recommended as it will be used in games soon) i'd go with a 3800+ manchester which can easily oc to 4400+ speeds.

Right now, If I were you, I would really consider the new Shuttle SLI SFF coming out soon and just putting a single 7800gtx in there with a 4400+ toledo or a manchester. Those psu's can handle anything you throw at them and the size of an SFF is nice seeing as how you're going to college and everything.

-1cem4n
Two things for you.
1. When is the X1800XT 512MB supposed to be released, and whats the expected price to pay? Also, while on topic of video card, will the 520W PS be able to handle that power consuming monster?
2. When is this Shuttle Case comming out? I have yet to look at it, but anything new can be eye catching. I don't mind carrying a large V2000 around though. However if Watercooling will increase my chance of causing a problem. I am probaly going to go with the best Air Cooling options avail.
 
ajrettke said:
My advice is to drop the WCing....with so much moving around, the potential for a leak increases greatly. I know WCing is fun, I used to do it, but the hassle of filling/bleeding, worrying etc for minimal results wasn't worth it. (think about how much more WCing is...it's often more then just getting the faster CPU/GPU...and sockets are changing so quickly that you can't keep the same hardware most of the time.

Video card...oh don't wait for the 1XK....nvidia is developing the xuys3rf...but wait ATI has they're rr23io4898235 slated for delivery 10 years from now which will blow all of those super computers outa the water.....you can wait....but they'll always be somethign around the corner, you have to bite the bullet or your never gonna buy anything.

Speakers, kinda hard to say since your moving around so much you probably don't want a full 5.1 setup. Let us know what your lookin for...

What is your monitor? I'd recommend getting the best monitor you can buy since this will last for a while...and with all your traveling and stuff...definetly a LCD
I was thinking speakers for strictly college mostly, once Im at college and moved in, my stuff isn't moving very much. Then again I could always just stick with headphones, I have no trouble doing that. If I don't get speakers I have no need to get the Creative Soundblaster X-Fi.
At my Dads I have a 17inch Dell CRT Trinitron. Its ok but its losing its edge quickly, its about 4 years old. At my Moms I have a NEC 2111FB 24" Ultra-Bright monitor. Things a beast and weights in at like 90+ pounds. I am thinking of selling off both my 17inch dell, and my 24" NEC and purchasing a high quality LCD. For traveling issues and save space. LCD's are not as bad as what they used to be. They get better and better everyday.
 
shuttle are barebone small form factor systems. Don't worry they are very good read some reviews on them on the big hardware site. Even hardocp recommends them and Kyle uses one and Zardon (siteadmin) from Driverheaven's main rig uses a shuttle too.

http://shuttle.com/ Seems the US site is a bit buggered at the moment. try the uk site

Enjoy!
 
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germanjulian said:
if your really move around this much get a shuttle system with 1 HD for gaming. build a second cheap comp as your storage server you can leave in college (as in cheap= athlon, 256MB ram etc without HD you can get something for $250), get a monitor keyboad switch thing so you dont need 2 monitors etc. when you are in college.

Think about it, those shuttle systems are small, quiete, fast as hell and portable. And you dont need 2 DVD drives, trust me I hadly use my 2 drives, 1 is enough. And they are cool :)

Raptors: Not worth it.

Mousepad and mouse: God depends ...... I went through 3 mouse pads and 5 mince in 2 years. Try before you buy, but thats impossible since you need to test for a while.

Important: Get a nice screen, keyboard, mouse and CHAIR! that is the really important stuff since you wont upgrade these for a while.

PS: Onboard sound sucks (me audiophile)
I said in the reply above, I don't really mind moving a huge case like a V2000 around. Besides once im at college the computer will not be moving as much, since I will live on campus. I am going to keep this new shuttle case comming out in mind though. Calling for LAN :)
You say 1 Drive is all you need. Would I just get a NEC DVD-Burner? I know they can read DVD's and write DVD's of course, but do they do a good of a job at reading DVD's as a DVD-ROM would? If you know what I mean.
Raptor, definitly not getting one, they are not worth the 180 dollars for the small preformance gain if any. Also they are quite noisy.
 
I would spend the most cash you got in order to purchase a 2405 or 2005...and awesome speakers.

The reason is good speakers and monitors last a long time. I had my Klipsch 4.1's for 5 years...I moved into a new apartment and use a reciever and 2 Klipsch floor standers and a huge 12" powered sub hooked uyp to a reciever which runs everything I own (the original klipsch speakers are actualy my satellites)

For speakers I say Klipsch 5.1's....and for monitors...dual monitors are dream...2405 and 2001 if your budget can swing it but that's a lot...a 1704 and 2005 would cost around 600-700 bucks.
 
Since I decided to go with air, I need some help deciding what is best. I will need a CPU Heatsink/Fan, GPU Heatsink/Fan, and possibly a DFI Ultra-D Chipset Cooler? The CPU is a AMD 64 X2 3800+, GPU is a eVGA 7800GTX, and chipset is off a DFI Ultra-D.

My thoughts:
CPU Heatsink: Thermalright SI-120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835109123
or Ninja Scythe
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835185122

CPU Heatsink Fan: Panasonic Panaflow 120mm Hydro Wave Cooling Fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835180081
note: There are a ton of 120mm fans out there, not exactly sure which is the best for preformance while still maintaining a quiet environment. There are like 4 different 120mm Panaflo's to begin with, what is the best?

GPU Heatsink/Fan: Zalman ZF700-CU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118117
note: Do I want to replace the stock fan on this badboy, or is it unnessesary?

Chipset coolers? Don't even know where to begin, and if its even worth it? I hear the Loudest part in most systems it thier DFI Ultra-D chipset fan though. What are my options?
 
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Have you considered surround headphones?
Based on another gamer's advice, I bought these Medusa 5.1 Surround Headphones. Let me say I am impressed. The cost is a bit high (~$150 for everything), but I think it's worth it.

Anyway, your choice of items is pretty good. It's up to you whether to get a 3800+ X2 instead to save some $$$, or whether to wait until X1800XT releases in a month or so.

Either the Scythe or SI-120 are good choices, as they're not too heavy (Moving around a lot with a heavy heatsink = bad).

:)
 
Im glad you showed me those Headphones, they look amazing. I always use surround sound with headphones, but I dont thnk my headphones were made for it. Vantec Stealths in my case, on the heatsinks everything.. is what I am thinking. They sound silent but do they give off enough air?
 
why not get good fans with sunbeam fan controller, because when you're gaming you have your headphones on anyway...turn them down when you're just in your dorm
 
Are you still going shuttle? cause if you're not, check out the P180 since it's BUILT for silence. I have it but i'm using the highest power fans I can get and I still don't notice (my hearing isn't as great in my right ear but the computer is on my left). I would also look at the v1200b(full tower is just too big to me) from lian li or the CoolerMaster Centurion.

The way I see it, if you're going to have speakers or headphones, you can use high speed fans because with headphones, you can't hear them and if you're going to use speakers, they will probably cover the noise. My computer is RIGHT next to my bed too and I don't wake up in the morning with my ears bleeding.

If you can fit it(not sure) i highly recommend the MicroCool Northpole:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/minochcokit.html
or the swiftech MCX159
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmcchco.html

-1cem4n

EDIT: the shuttle SLI can be found here:
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=1237&redirect=yes
the powersupply can handle ANYTHING except for a high powered watercooling probably but a 6800gt puts out 1w less than a 7800gtx(nvidia finally figured out why their cards were so hot)
 
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