Midphase hosting - avoid them

Pinky · Oct 27, 2005

I recently started receiving bills from a host ("Mid-Phase") I haven't been using in probably a year+. I replied kindly explaining that my account had been closed a long time ago due to their shotty service, and that I had even received a partial refund for the services not rendered (which, at the time, I thought was a nice gesture on their part... but I was still never going to recommend them again). Since then I've receive the following letter along with "password reminders" of how to sign in and either cancel my service (which they would have done prior), or pay the balance due. In one of my earlier emails I even explained that because it was so long ago I don't have any 'evidence' of the cancellation aside from the fact the forum/site is completely turned off and I haven't logged into the account in, like, a year.

The persistence as indicated in the response below tells me that they are simply out to milk a loop hole they created, and basically feel out how big of a sucker they think I am. My last response ended with "see you in court".

Dear William,

Whether or not you used our services isn't relevant. In accordance
with our terms of service, accounts are renewed until cancelled through
the cancellation form, (the cancel form can be found here:
cancel.midphase.com ). Further, to avoid renewal charges you must cancel your account
14 days before its renewal. Non-use is not a form of cancellation.

You can review our terms of service here,
http://midphase.com/html_files/terms_of_service.php

You have an outstanding invoice that must be paid off before we're able
to close your account. We need you to update your credit card
information so we can process this outstanding balance. To update your billing
information, login to secure.mpcustomer.com using the login details I’ve
sent to you by email. Once you are logged into the billing system click
on “Billing Info” then “Edit”. Once you’ve update your credit card
details let us know through this ticket and we’ll make sure your account is
paid off.

To close your account you MUST fill out the cancellation form,
cancel.midphase.com

We would love to keep your business. If there is a specific problem
that has led you to leave midPhase please let us know and we’ll be more
than happy to fix it for you.

Please let us know if you have any questions or need help. Thank you.

--
Brian Harmatuk
Billing Representative

Please note that my name isn't even William, and I have signed my name (Kevin) on all my previous emails. These are guys are really clueless. Buyer beware!

midPhase-Zak · Oct 28, 2005

Pinky,

I just wanted to stop by here, and all of the other places you're posting to say the exact same thing that I said in your ticket. If you can provide a cancellation number, we'll be happy to take your account down.

Here's what we are working with:

* You are unable to provide a cancellation number, but you claim that you haven't used the service in years. Fair enough, but refer to our TOS, which states the following:
"
7.8 NON-USAGE OF AN ACCOUNT IS NOT PROOF OF CANCELLATION OF SERVICE. Clients are responsible for full payment on all accounts whether or not the account is or was ever utilized. If a client cancels without using the account outside of the guarantee period, there is no refund allowed. "

We are simply not able to monitor your usage of your website. Even if we could, many customers don't use their website, they don't update it, they rarely get visitors, but they still want it open just in case, or for their own reason. LIKE ANY OTHER SERVICE, you must cancel by notifying us. We have a *very* simply cancellation form, which if you had filled out, you would have received a cancellation number via email immediately.

You can run around the Internet slandering us if you like. If you can't provide a cancellation number, and we can't find records of your cancellation, I don't believe it happened.

Zak

Kendan · Oct 28, 2005

midPhase-Zak said:
Pinky,

I just wanted to stop by here, and all of the other places you're posting to say the exact same thing that I said in your ticket. If you can provide a cancellation number, we'll be happy to take your account down.

Here's what we are working with:

* You are unable to provide a cancellation number, but you claim that you haven't used the service in years. Fair enough, but refer to our TOS, which states the following:
"
7.8 NON-USAGE OF AN ACCOUNT IS NOT PROOF OF CANCELLATION OF SERVICE. Clients are responsible for full payment on all accounts whether or not the account is or was ever utilized. If a client cancels without using the account outside of the guarantee period, there is no refund allowed. "

We are simply not able to monitor your usage of your website. Even if we could, many customers don't use their website, they don't update it, they rarely get visitors, but they still want it open just in case, or for their own reason. LIKE ANY OTHER SERVICE, you must cancel by notifying us. We have a *very* simply cancellation form, which if you had filled out, you would have received a cancellation number via email immediately.

You can run around the Internet slandering us if you like. If you can't provide a cancellation number, and we can't find records of your cancellation, I don't believe it happened.

Zak Boca

Is it possible that he cancelled by phone or email and your rep didn't cancel the account and he is caught up now because of the auto renew? If this is the case it would seem that the best course of action is to finish doing what was supposed to be done and leave kevin alone? I apreciate the fact you want to state your case here but if you don't even consider that it might be an error on your companies side then I really don't see how you will be doing anything but further alienating any customers that might see your responses to his claim.

Pinky · Oct 30, 2005

Kendan said:
I apreciate the fact you want to state your case here but if you don't even consider that it might be an error on your companies side then I really don't see how you will be doing anything but further alienating any customers that might see your responses to his claim.

Precisely. It's been assumed from the get-go that I'm some leech/crook. Also note that they have conceeded that I have NOT been using their services as they aren't even attempting to fight that claim. The thing about online TOS (terms of service) is that they can be changed at any time (by the service provider). That's why real companies always send a paper copy through snail mail. Unless you actually have proof you send letters with outlined terms, nothing you say is worth a hill of beans in court... which is where cases like this end up once someone like me sues you for damaging their credit rating with falsified collections activity. Those sort of crimes they will extradite people for. How much is 7 years of higher interest rates worth in (economic) punitive damages?? :bang head

What's funny is that I would have never received services from any online company without paying first. I'm being billed for future services then? Or services rendered? In the case of future services, I made it clear I wasn't interested (so until I pay there's no contract entered). If it's for prior services, is it common practice for midphase to provide services on a bill-me-later schedule?

Here's a quote from an email from the same Zac... sounds pretty professional to me. Definitely a company I would recommend to others

:

Too funny! It's amazing how much time people have on their hands, it
really is...

I've cancelled you out of our system, and am passing
this on to collections. If that isn't where you want to go to, you
should provide a cancellation number instead of these pathetic blackmail
attempts.

Blackmail? Sounds like slander accusing someone of blackmail when they've made NO DEMANDS. Are you stoopid or just not up for the challenging of using your brain?

If anyone is BEING blackmailed it's me. Or is it William? Or haven't you figured out who your sending to collections yet?...

Ocforums is a home to me. The people here know me. They know I'm an upstanding person. You'll have a hard time selling your lies here.

midPhase-Zak · Oct 31, 2005

Kevin/William,

It's funny to see you acting as if you don't know how the name William came up. If you don't remember, let me refresh you:

On February 10th at 3:29:44PM, you changed your real information (Kevin) to William. We have logs to document this change.

Since you have brought this matter public, we do reserve our right to our side of the story. To sum up everything thus far:

You, Kevin (William, or whichever other name you prefer), agreed to our TOS, which clearly states that the only method of cancelling is via our cancellation form. The idea that you cancelled over the phone isn't possible, because our phone reps. are not capable of doing that. We also monitor every single call, so I'm sure that we could pull up the call, if you sincerely think that you may have cancelled that way.

After not paying your bill for many months, our system continued to email you to inform you of this charge. You changed your information, to what I'm quite sure is ficitious, and you posted about how we're completely confused, and don't even have your real information.

It's evident you're doing your best to evade your debt. Again, bringing this information public is not in our best interest, but we do reserve the right to bring our side of the story.

We have nothing to gain here. I don't feel that you cancelled your account. If you did, we would have found yor cancellation by searching by your email address, your domain name, your cancellation ID (which you say you don't have), your username, or your name. I'm going to go ahead and just close out the account entirely. You won't receive any additional emails from us and you won't be sent to collections, but I would suggest that you stick to the facts of the story here. We have our proof on that.

Thanks

Zak

Pinky · Oct 31, 2005

midPhase-Zak said:
I'm going to go ahead and just close out the account entirely. You won't receive any additional emails from us and you won't be sent to collections, but I would suggest that you stick to the facts of the story here. We have our proof on that.

I win!!!

No, really, if you're so confident in your companies righteousness you mind as well throw me to the wolves, right?

So here's some puzzle pieces I've been saving for the right moment to reveal...

William Redhawk (personal friend from wells ny) is on the account because the ownership of the forum that used to run on your servers ages ago was transferred to him. Regardless of when that change took place, you were not on February 11th and are not currently our host. We have been with dreamhost for a while now (at least since February 11th, 2005). Perhaps you should visit them and find out how a real hosting firm is operated? www.dreamhost.com

Recently William was unable to maintain the role as owner and (unfortunately for me) the forums became my responsibility again. Hence why you have me responding to adkforum business emails now, as it's again my responsibility. Of course I'd have no reason to tell you any of this because you're no longer even on my internal list of sites I need to contact concerning this forum (hence why I have no beta on my old account with you people). You're old news to adkforum. A bump in a long road of horrible service providers.

Now, while you seem to suddenly have great account tracking/logging abilities (contrary to your previous contentions), perhaps you can share with those interested the type of activity on this account in the past 8+ months (hell, you can probably go back a lot further than that too). The short answer is there hasn't been any, and yet somehow a "bill" has been accumulating, despite no responses to (supposed) emails requesting payment. Interesting. Again, is it midphase's practice to supply services without payment? Every host I've ever used required payment up front for ALL services rendered, and immediate termination of the services when the contract ended and the services were not renewed.

The bottom line is that you're a bunch of so-and-sos and you're being taken to the cleaners publicly. I WELCOME legal action, it will only give me cause for my own action against you. Bring it on!

Pinky · Oct 31, 2005

Playing catch-up on other site things, and I found an active url to the old midphase account (listed as a referring site in my dreamhost stats)! So I guess you HAVEN'T deleted the old account. Liar.

Even has my last name in the url name. "Heckeler" and "Redhawk" don't even start with the same letter

.

Note the mouse over on "here" reveals the redirect to the current adkforum url. A simple trace to the adkforum's url will reveal the host is not midphase.

**Update** Now more threats for collections in my email just now...

Zac said:
William/Kevin,

That's because you changed your info. on February 10th at 3:29:44 PM.
Just so you know, the following info. was sent to collections, Kevin:

Kevin Heckeler
131 *****
Albany
122**
518-***-****

Slandering our name won't be tolerated, and I'll be updated the threads
you've posted with this information, William/Kevin.

So we have them publicly saying one thing, and privately the exact opposite. lol Now they're literally trying to extort money out of me!

midPhase-Zak said:
I'm going to go ahead and just close out the account entirely. You won't receive any additional emails from us and you won't be sent to collections, but I would suggest that you stick to the facts of the story here. We have our proof on that.

Pinky · Oct 31, 2005

Looks like they have a history of doing this sort of stuff!

http://webhostingtestimonials.com/hosts_name.php?id=midphase-reviews-ratings

Attorney General here I come!

Benvanz · Nov 1, 2005

and I am currently looking for a hoster....but your not on my "to look at" list (now)....i might change my mind if this resolves in a peacefull manner

midPhase-Zak · Nov 1, 2005

Benvanz said:
and I am currently looking for a hoster....but your not on my "to look at" list (now)....i might change my mind if this resolves in a peacefull manner

This has been resolved. The customer that was delinquent on a payment was cancelled out after evading his debt by changing his name in our system. As I've stated to him, the account is closed.

Thanks

Zak

Silversinksam · Nov 1, 2005

midPhase-Zak said:
Kevin/William,

It's funny to see you acting as if you don't know how the name William came up. If you don't remember, let me refresh you:

On February 10th at 3:29:44PM, you changed your real information (Kevin) to William. We have logs to document this change.

Since you have brought this matter public, we do reserve our right to our side of the story. To sum up everything thus far:

You, Kevin (William, or whichever other name you prefer), agreed to our TOS, which clearly states that the only method of cancelling is via our cancellation form. The idea that you cancelled over the phone isn't possible, because our phone reps. are not capable of doing that. We also monitor every single call, so I'm sure that we could pull up the call, if you sincerely think that you may have cancelled that way.

After not paying your bill for many months, our system continued to email you to inform you of this charge. You changed your information, to what I'm quite sure is ficitious, and you posted about how we're completely confused, and don't even have your real information.

It's evident you're doing your best to evade your debt. Again, bringing this information public is not in our best interest, but we do reserve the right to bring our side of the story.

We have nothing to gain here. I don't feel that you cancelled your account. If you did, we would have found yor cancellation by searching by your email address, your domain name, your cancellation ID (which you say you don't have), your username, or your name. I'm going to go ahead and just close out the account entirely. You won't receive any additional emails from us and you won't be sent to collections, but I would suggest that you stick to the facts of the story here. We have our proof on that.

Thanks

Zak Boca

While we always appreciate vendors popping in and helping rectify issues, you seem to have sidestepped what Kevin has stated and you are mincing words, he may have e-mailed you rather than called or used the 'official' means of termination, but this is irrelevant and I'll tell you why, also what name he listed is of no consequence as long as the billing was terminated, but I will explain more on that in a moment:

Pinky said:
I recently started receiving bills from a host ("Mid-Phase") I haven't been using in probably a year+. I replied kindly explaining that my account had been closed a long time ago due to their shotty service, and that I had even received a partial refund for the services not rendered (which, at the time, I thought was a nice gesture on their part...

All Kevin needs to produce is his banking records where Midphase hosting partially refunded him payment for services rendered or terminated. Once this record is produced, Midphase Hosting can talk all they want about this TOS breach, as it will be irrelevant.

EDIT:

midPhase-Zak said:
This has been resolved. The customer that was delinquent on a payment was cancelled out after evading his debt by changing his name in our system. As I've stated to him, the account is closed.

Thanks

Zak

The name has nothing to do with nothing, what happened? Here's what I believe happened, You managed to look up Kevins partial refund records for services terminated? Sounds like that's EXACTLY what happened as your outfit would sent this to collections if this wasnt the case as clearly exhibited by your demeanor. I handle all vendor issues and Mr Heckeler aka Pinky is an honorable guy around these parts.

d94 · Nov 1, 2005

Silversinksam said:
While we always appreciate vendors popping in and helping rectify issues, you seem to have sidestepped what Kevin has stated and you are mincing words, he may have e-mailed you rather than called or used the 'official' means of termination, but this is irrelevant and I'll tell you why, also what name he listed is of no consequence as long as the billing was terminated, but I will explain more on that in a moment:

All Kevin needs to produce is his banking records where Midphase hosting partially refunded him payment for services rendered or terminated. Once this record is produced, Midphase Hosting can talk all they want about this TOS breach, as it will be irrelevant.

EDIT:

The name has nothing to do with nothing, what happened? Here's what I believe happened, You managed to look up Kevins partial refund records for services terminated? Sounds like that's EXACTLY what happened as your outfit would sent this to collections if this wasnt the case as clearly exhibited by your demeanor. I handle all vendor issues and Mr Heckeler aka Pinky is an honorable guy around these parts.

Pinky · Nov 1, 2005

Silversinksam said:
All Kevin needs to produce is his banking records where Midphase hosting partially refunded him payment for services rendered or terminated. Once this record is produced, Midphase Hosting can talk all they want about this TOS breach, as it will be irrelevant.

Sam, I appreciate the support. If I had such records readily available I would have already produced them. Part of the issue is that this host and the host prior to this one were not used very long, and I had basically the same short term experience with both. I'm not 100% sure midphase was the hosting company I was thinking of. I'm also not sure which of several credit cards this would have been billed/refunded, so I've been pretty much given up hope of figuring that out. Add to that problem the fact I closed most of my credit cards a few months ago (to clean up my debt), and you see why it's not an easy issue of "show me the money". Now that it's clear what sort of company it is we're dealing with, I'd rather spend the time spreading the good word around the entire web.

MY POINT is that regardless of that fact, I never renewed a contract with midphase. I had paid for a certain number of months with them. Before even reaching the end of those prepaid/contract months I stopped using their service. Many many months later I suddenly receive an email stating I owe them like $100. Then they try to trick you into cancelling your account, so that they have (in their mind) "proof" that you JUST cancelled and that they have you locked in at owing them for the unpaid months. It's an extortion scam, bullying people with threatening collections if they don't pay.

Now, based on what I learned reading the many testimonials on the web concerning this company, it appears they intentionally avoid contacting customers with overdue accounts for many months (probably until the account balance reaches $100+). Then they email the customer stating they had been emailing with no response (William has verified no such emails were ever received) and drop the news that there's a balance due. Their "terms of service" may or may not have any hidden "you MUST cancel or we can keep your account opened and accumulating debt indefinitely" clause, but whether that clause in practice will stand up in a court of law is something only the Attorney General of Illinois is going to find out. Just because you hide I can take your car and first born child when you click "yes" below doesn't make it a valid contract.

It's worth restating that no company worth their weight refers to an online terms of service. Real companies send you a paper terms of service at the time the services are purchased, so that if such an issue were to occur i nthe future there's no "well, it didn't say that when I signed up". For all we know, they re-wrote their online terms of service last Tuesday and are going through their database trying to screw people. But as I said, whether or not that clause is in there doesn't make it "legal".

shellshock · Nov 1, 2005

HAHA I love the google search line, LOL :clap:

go sss and pinky!

cornbread · Nov 2, 2005

Pinky said:
Attorney General here I come!

If I were you I would seriously consider this. For some reason I have a bad feeling about these guys.

Pinky · Nov 2, 2005

cornbread said:
If I were you I would seriously consider this. For some reason I have a bad feeling about these guys.

I have already contacted them via email. In the coming days I'm downloading the PDF and sending it away. I'm actually a little too tired to finish that step tonight.

Pinky · Nov 2, 2005

midPhase-Zak said:
As I've stated to him, the account is closed.

Funny, http://esc27.midphase.com/~heckeler/printthread.php still loads my old forum software. "Closed" must not mean the same thing to you as it does to the other 6 billion earthlings.

Midphase is a joke. Can't even close an account properly and you want people to trust you'll maintain their sites for them?

Pinky · Nov 2, 2005

Okay, I decided now was as good a time as any to file. It's an electronic form you print out, so here's the contents of my complaint:

This company has a history of this behavior (a simple google.com search will reveal testimonials much the same to mine). In February 2005 I stopped using this company to host a website. I had pre-paid for a certain amount of time (think it was 4 months). This pre-payment also included basic setup fees. It was approximately $100. Beginning February 11th, 2005 I moved all active content to dreamhost (my current web host). Essentially I stopped using midphase. They were long forgotten until a few weeks ago.

Fast forward to October 13th 2005 (8 months later, and 7 months after my last prepaid month ran out) and I receive notice from midphase I owe them $100.14 . I reply explaining that I had stopped using them a long while back. The types of replies that followed were made public by myself on the following public web forum:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=420564

Quick summation of my discoveries in the past 2 weeks: 1) Midphase created a loophole that they exploit, 2) this loophole gives them 'justification' for allowing any and all unused accounts to become past-due indefinitely, 3) midphase has no interest in correcting the wrong or technical problems since they rely on these "issues" for revenue, 4) midphase immediately threatens to send the matter to collections if they don't receive immediate payment, 5) midphase has a history of intentionally allowing accounts to become delinquent, 6) midphase encourages delinquency in order to collect from prior customers for services never rendered, 7) midphase refuses to close accounts even when they said they would, 8) midphase never sends overdue notices like they claim, 9) midphase will not close an account until the balance is paid in full, 10) midphase will continue to assess fees and will continue billing until the balance is paid and the account is closed.

dark_15 · Nov 2, 2005

Pinky said:
Funny, http://esc27.midphase.com/~heckeler/printthread.php still loads my old forum software. "Closed" must not mean the same thing to you as it does to the other 6 billion earthlings.

Midphase is a joke. Can't even close an account properly and you want people to trust you'll maintain their sites for them?

At least it still works for once...

>.>
<.<

:sn:

cornbread · Nov 2, 2005

Keeps us updated Pinky

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