View Full Version : my 9700pro eats my 9600xt by 50% *both stock*
Overclocker550
11-01-05, 06:11 PM
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9214/9700pfear9wn.jpg
http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/825/fearspdemo20051021021407533lc.jpg
nice eh? Guess you naysayers saying oh no the 9700pro isnt much faster than the 9600xt are all wrong! In fact, some benchmarks and in other games show it being more than twice as fast! The 9600xt just makes no sense when you can get a far better 9700pro for the same price! I am getting near the performance my friend is with his oced x800pro and 4GHz celeron. He does have a far faster gpu(more than twice) but his cpu really holds him back so overall our games run about the same with the edge to him with aa/af and high details. I am done upgrading anything for a while like a year or more. Ill need to get a high paying job first and I got other priorities such as my own mobile home, my own bike for transportation and work on my coin collection :) my rig should last me more than a year anyway, its no slouch!
DDR-PIII
11-01-05, 06:17 PM
umm no, im not saying its faster for one thing, why would it be faster its only got have the pipes and 128-bit mem interface, sure iot has a faster core but thats nothing,my 6600 bas only 128-bit mem but it'll blow your 9700pro outta the water haha, same situation.
p.s. yes f.e.a.r. is a nice game, im just about finished it :) im in the vault :)
one more thing, the 9600 is dx9 right ? is the 9700 also dx9 ? if not thats probably why its faster"one more reason anyway".
Overclocker550
11-01-05, 06:19 PM
You KNOW you're not supposed to be trading outside the Classifieds, and you're not even supposed to trade software there. Don't let me see this happen again.
DDR-PIII
11-01-05, 06:20 PM
yeah its legit ofcouyrse haha my homie from the UK sent it over ;)
Yuriman
11-01-05, 06:25 PM
I am getting near the performance my friend is with his oced x800pro and 4GHz celeron. He does have a far faster gpu(more than twice) but his cpu really holds him back so overall our games run about the same with the edge to him with aa/af and high details.
Are you running with shadows on now? Is he?
Sentential
11-01-05, 06:30 PM
Are you running with shadows on now? Is he?
Nope. No shadows 4 him
R4z0r4mu5 Pr|m3
11-01-05, 06:33 PM
one more thing, the 9600 is dx9 right ? is the 9700 also dx9 ? if not thats probably why its faster"one more reason anyway".
the 9700 is dx9, it was the first generation and set of cards that were dx9, these include the 9500, 9500pro, 9700, and 9700pro.
Yuriman
11-01-05, 06:36 PM
The 9600 is also DX9, it was made later than the 9700.
Indeed. The 9700 pro's 256bit memory interface is largely what gives it the performance boost. I was waiting on the 512bit interface for the X1800, screw the rest of the features. That would yield the biggest performance gain IMO. Anyways, The 9600XT has a newer GPU with extra features, and it's clocked faster, but the 9600 just cant compete with the memory interface. I'd certainly say that 128bit is a bottleneck. 256 is quite a bottleneck now too.
About the 6600, it would probably do better than the 9700pro because it has quite a few extra things to make up for the memory interface, but it would be a marginal gain.
Yuriman
11-01-05, 06:58 PM
The X1800 does not have a 512bit memory bus, it has a "512bit ring bus controller". Still 256bit mem, but with much higher efficiency because of an improved controller.
What settings are you running? I haven't tried especially hard to tweak anything, but 40FPS is about all I seem to be able to hit with my card (which keeps pace with a 9800np when OCd)
JigPu
obsolete
11-01-05, 11:58 PM
Hes done it again! Give him an award! Same spot, 50% gain!! Wowzerrrrsss!! :drool:
Hrmm..why is this a surprise?? 8 pipe card versus 4 pipe card..It would take a lot of 9600xt gpu speed to match the performance of a stock 9700pro.
Overclocker550
11-02-05, 01:44 AM
What settings are you running? I haven't tried especially hard to tweak anything, but 40FPS is about all I seem to be able to hit with my card (which keeps pace with a 9800np when OCd)
JigPu
If that xp1800 is the cpu your running, youve got a third the processing power and ram I do. My a64 is overclocked and im using ram at ddr500 speeds. I also got a streamlined win2k OS. Your gonna want to upgrade definately. I am getting over 100fps in some places and 60fps in many places. This is with all the eyecandy on with 4x aa, 16x af 1024x768
DDR-PIII
11-02-05, 12:20 PM
im pretty limited by my cpu and ram, but i get a decent 55+FPS with my card at 1024x768, i run 4xfsaa and 4xAS and everything to max accept for volumetric lights i only use medium and same with the soft shadows they arent on :) cant wait till the make a map editor :)
Yeah, I definatly need to hit up Newegg and upgrade this sucker :D I'll try some of the stuff DDR-PIII mentioned, perhaps it will give a descent boost. I already had the CPU settings down to medium, though I guess the high video card settings still take quite a toll on this 1800 and it's 4x AGP bus.
JigPu
speed bump
11-02-05, 12:36 PM
Hate to tell you this but thats only 43.333% not 50% but whatever.
Nice you are getting closer to the next gen by the way you can buy fear for like $36 at Walmart.
james.miller
11-03-05, 04:13 PM
If that xp1800 is the cpu your running, youve got a third the processing power and ram I do. My a64 is overclocked and im using ram at ddr500 speeds. I also got a streamlined win2k OS. Your gonna want to upgrade definately. I am getting over 100fps in some places and 60fps in many places. This is with all the eyecandy on with 4x aa, 16x af 1024x768
im finding that extreamly hard to believe when F.E.A.R is just about the most gpu limited game ive ever played......and my gto2 struggles with it at those exact same settings. mind you, F.E.A.R isn't F.E.A.R without soft shadows;)
Overclocker550
11-03-05, 06:00 PM
all games use a good amount of cpu power(as well as gpu) so while you have a good gpu to back you up, thats only half the equation. I gained quite a few fps in FEAR overclocking my cpu and thats with a 9700pro at that! Granted it was tested at lower res to make the gains much larger. A fast card would be cpu limited at higher resolutions. Go out and upgrade your cpu. If you can afford $300 for a video card, surely you can afford half that for a new cpu?
james.miller
11-03-05, 06:22 PM
what are you talking about?? ive got a 2.5ghz a64!
fear is the most gpu limited game i've ever seen. period.
CanadianTSi
11-03-05, 07:03 PM
What does your 9700 score in 05?
Unless he's talking to me, in which case I paid $150 for this thing 2 years ago, and I still can't really afford $75 for a new CPU (w00r for being a college student! :D). Perhaps I should ask Santa for a shiny new T-Bred for Christmas :santa:
JigPu
Overclocker550
11-03-05, 11:38 PM
why not ask him for a fx57 ;)
Because then I'd have to ask him for a new mobo, RAM and video card too! :D Of course, it never hurts to ask.... *compiles Christmas list* :santa:
JigPu
speed bump
11-04-05, 12:06 AM
Why not just ask for an inexpensive S754 package. a 3000 and lot of mobos are going cheap for s754, heck i'm still questioning why I comitted myself to PCI-e seeing how cheap a Dothan or S754 us at the moment.
should help out those Boinc stats a bunch to.
Blackmage
11-04-05, 02:07 AM
not again :P
snyper1982
11-04-05, 03:03 PM
This is news? Of course the 9700 will be faster. Good god man, I can't believe you even posted this. Get back to work on your coin collection :)
Keep it cool snyper. There's no reason he shouldn't have posted this, so just take it for what it's worth.
Besides, I don't think I've yet seen a review where one honestly can't say the same thing. :D To slightly modify your quote -- "This is news? Of course the 7800 will be faster [than the 6800]" Information is always useful, don't dis it just because it's old :)
JigPu
tom10167
11-06-05, 06:10 AM
Jigpu your cheerful attitude is really becoming a downer on this thread.
:)
Sleepy_Steve
11-06-05, 08:11 AM
lol, i like this as much as the next guy but:
Please use normal benchmarks =P Such fewer variables to disguss
and one more thing... 60:38 != 50% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Overclocker550
11-06-05, 10:50 PM
50% average in many different areas of the game. This one area I was getting even more than 50% gain :)
speed bump
11-07-05, 09:31 AM
You were getting less than 50% more performance in those screenshots by my calculations which say the difference between 30 and 60 is 50% and the difference between 38 and 60 is 42% not 50%.
Overclocker550
11-07-05, 08:40 PM
LOL I am getting 58% more performance from 38fps to 60fps. Check your math ;)
Cheator
11-07-05, 11:14 PM
There are too many variablesto take into account at this point. besides, I've had my 9600 XT score a mere 100 points less than a 9700 pro in 3dmark with marginal overclocking. I am by no means saying the 9600 is fast. I hate the thing. But i am simply saying that we can't count on only fear and any game for that matter for an accurate comparison
Dan0512
11-07-05, 11:40 PM
If you OCed the 9600xt say to 600/400, then it'd be pretty close to the 9700. The 9700 is a much faster card at stock, so there isn't really anything surprising.
Dan
Cheator
11-08-05, 06:14 AM
If you OCed the 9600xt say to 600/400, then it'd be pretty close to the 9700. The 9700 is a much faster card at stock, so there isn't really anything surprising.
Dan
Not at all. Its been known for quite some time.
...I get 50%...
"Relative Speed Comparison"
60/60 = 1 = 100%
60/30 = 2 = 200%
30/38 = 1.579 = 158%
OC550's 9700pro is 158% the speed of his 9600xt. (38 * 158% = 60.04)
"Relative Speed Difference (to 9600xt)"
(60-60)/60 = 0/60 = 0 = 0%
(60-30)/30 = 30/30 = 1 = 100%
(60-38)/38 = 22/38 = 0.579 = 57.9%
OC550's 9700pro is 57.9% faster than his 9600xt. (38*0.579 + 38 = 60.002)
JigPu
snyper1982
11-08-05, 01:05 PM
Keep it cool snyper. There's no reason he shouldn't have posted this, so just take it for what it's worth.
Besides, I don't think I've yet seen a review where one honestly can't say the same thing. :D To slightly modify your quote -- "This is news? Of course the 7800 will be faster [than the 6800]" Information is always useful, don't dis it just because it's old :)
JigPu
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was just giving him a hard time. Thats why I had the smiley at the end.
deathman20
11-08-05, 02:08 PM
Run the bench marks in fear comparing the 2 cards at least. Will give a better round number to where the card sits overall with benches.
Overclocker550
11-08-05, 05:32 PM
I think a fair comparsion is to compare both at stock and this is what I did. Overclocking may skew one in favor especially depending how well each overclocks. Fact is, the 9700pro is superior to the 9600xt at the same price. The 9600xt was never a good deal, neither was the 9800xt for the matter.
ninthebin
11-08-05, 05:53 PM
thats not what hes asking you to do - hes saying run the ingame benchmark and post results, not to overclock one against the other. Staring a wall of your choosing != fair test tbh
deathman20
11-08-05, 05:57 PM
Ya I just want to run a test. Showing action, fights and partical effects and to post the results that will give a more acturate test then viewing a wall because thats what will get you the highest frame rate.
Dan0512
11-08-05, 11:58 PM
Fact is, the 9700pro is superior to the 9600xt at the same price. The 9600xt was never a good deal, neither was the 9800xt for the matter.
The 9700pro never cost the same as the 9600xt! In their days I wanted to purchase a 9700pro, which could only be had for around $175 new. The 9600xt's were at $130. Used 9700pros could be bought for that price, but then you are not comparing the same thing.
Dan
Cheator
11-09-05, 06:18 AM
I think a fair comparsion is to compare both at stock and this is what I did. Overclocking may skew one in favor especially depending how well each overclocks. Fact is, the 9700pro is superior to the 9600xt at the same price. The 9600xt was never a good deal, neither was the 9800xt for the matter.
It, at one point, came with Half-Life 2, and in effect, HL 1, Opposing forces, Day of Defeat, Counter Strike, Half-Life: Blue Shift, Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, among others. I'd say that was a pretty good deal.
Overclocker550
11-11-05, 04:03 AM
I would take a used 9700pro over a new 9600xt anyday. The performance difference is quite significent. Both are good cards but the 9700pro is just more high end and will run your games with more eyecandy and higher res like 1280x960
Neuromancer
11-11-05, 06:19 AM
Yah but reviews like this are good because I just bought a 9600XT for 73 dollars :)
Nice thread and some REALLY funny comments
AngelfireUk83
11-11-05, 06:33 AM
Dosn't a 9700pro have more pixel pipelines over a 9600xt and ain't the stock clocks on it for GPU/Memory better as well.
deathman20
11-11-05, 07:06 AM
Dosn't a 9700pro have more pixel pipelines over a 9600xt and ain't the stock clocks on it for GPU/Memory better as well.
Well of course, your trying to compare a mid range card with the top end card of that generation.
The 9600xt is essentially a slimmed down (and sped up) 9700pro. It has half the piplines and memory bus width (4 and 128-bit vs 8 and 256-bit), but double both the core and memory MHz (500/600 vs 325/310).
Theoretically (and in the real world) the 9700pro holds an advantage over the xt since it's clocks are just over half of the xt's, allowing it's exactly double lead in pipes and width to take over. This isn't taking into effect speedups in the RV350 vs R300 core or slowdowns from easier bottlenecking of reduced hardware, but the 9700pro does hold the advantage.
JigPu
threeme2189
11-11-05, 04:02 PM
i still love my 9600xt
Overclocker550
11-11-05, 09:45 PM
the 9600xt was meant to surpass and replace the 9500pro and in many instances it does. It was never meant to be faster than the 9700pro but a midrange alternative to the 9500pro and to beat nvidia's ti4600 and fx5700 which it does nicely in many games, especially dx9
speed bump
11-12-05, 12:38 PM
...I get 50%...
"Relative Speed Comparison"
60/60 = 1 = 100%
60/30 = 2 = 200%
30/38 = 1.579 = 158%
OC550's 9700pro is 158% the speed of his 9600xt. (38 * 158% = 60.04)
"Relative Speed Difference (to 9600xt)"
(60-60)/60 = 0/60 = 0 = 0%
(60-30)/30 = 30/30 = 1 = 100%
(60-38)/38 = 22/38 = 0.579 = 57.9%
OC550's 9700pro is 57.9% faster than his 9600xt. (38*0.579 + 38 = 60.002)
JigPu
Well this math is off as well as mine was.
However the proper way to calculate this is 30/60=.5*100%=50%
therefore 38/60=.633333333333333 or 63.34 *100%=63.34% of the 9700 which means Oc550's 9700 beats out his 9600xt by 36.66% not 50% as stated.
Anyway I think i'll try this demo this morning with my x850xt pe and see what that does
I like math. But I can't stand statistics.
Actually, I think both our math is correct. Mine is relating the 9700pro to the 9600xt (ie, the 9700pro is blah the 9600xt), while yours is relating the 9600xt to the 9700pro (ie, the 9600xt is blah the 9700pro).
Your math determined is that the 9700pro beats the 9600xt by 37% because the 9600xt is 63% as fast as the 9700pro (a 9600xt is a 9700pro, minus 37% of a 9700pro).
My math determined that the 9700pro beats the 9600xt by 58% because the 9700pro is 158% as fast the 9600xt (a 9700pro is a 9600xt, plus 58% of a 9600xt).
Which better fits "beats by" is the question, and why I absolutely hate statistics :bang head
JigPu
Dan0512
11-13-05, 11:43 PM
The 9600xt is essentially a slimmed down (and sped up) 9700pro. It has half the piplines and memory bus width (4 and 128-bit vs 8 and 256-bit), but double both the core and memory MHz (500/600 vs 325/310).
The 9600xt memory speed is clocked at 300 Mhz (600 Mhz is the DDR speed, usually 3.3 ns not 1.6 ns :) ).... so theoretically it has a bit less than half the bandwidth of a stock 9700 pro due to the 128 bit bus.
If you clocked a 9600xt to 650/620(1.24 Ghz), then it probably match the 9700pro performance wise...
Dan
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