View Full Version : P-4 506 results
I don't ever attempt to have the newest/greatest/most expensive gear available, leaving that luxury to those of means. But I have a weakness for Call of Duty, and made the mistake of trying the COD2 demo. Suffice it to say the 'ole FX5900 had to go.
This brings a bit of a quandry for those in AGP-land. I tried a 6800NU, and it just wasn't peppy enough to make the difference I sought. That leaves the 6800GT, but they cost nearly as much as the twice-as-powerful 7800GT. 7800GT is the value, but is of course available only in a PCI-Express version.
Since a good video card mandates PCI-Express, and PCI-E mandates LGA775 (on the Intel platform, at least), a new cpu was in order as well. Enter the P4-506. This little jewel is currently available from the egg for $111, and is a dynamite value. I think of it as the super-celeron, what you get when you don't disable 3/4's of the L2 cache. And it's only $30 more than a similiarly clocked celeron. Like the latest LGA775 celly, the 506 bring EM64T to the party.
I chose the Abit AG8-V board because, firstly, it is cheap, and secondly, it is not junk. The 915p chipset used is limited from an OC-standpoint, but we don't actually have to OC the chipset due to the 20X multiplier of the 506. At Intel's envisioned 200fsb we produce 4GHz, not a bad goal considering current core quality and power/cooling concerns.
915p also supports the use of DDR ram, allowing me to maintain the 2x512MB BH5 sticks from my i865pe setup. Like all the rest of this, this is not the sexy way to fly, but hey, this is indeed the coach section of the OCing world.
Taken as a whole, this thing is, um, cheap. And it's pretty darn fast as well, at least in the places where it really matters. Gaming is what brings machines to their knees, and the 7800GT is the current answer. The 506 setup holds the 7800GT in position to do your bidding, and does not obstruct it much in doing so.
This particular 506 is no great shakes. It is very stable at 4GHz, but required 1.51V to stabilze in all tests and apps tried. Its default VID is 1.4V, I've seen another 506 with a 1.2875V VID. I'm sure it would reach 4GHz with less voltage than this example, but this one works. I'm not going to cry over endangering a $111 cpu, even if I did tend to spare the Vcore (which I don't).
Here's the benchmark results, draw what conclusion you may. While they certainly aren't amazingly good, they aren't terrible, either. Amongst P4s w/single 7800GTs, the 3DMark01, 03, and 05 are all in the current top 10. Could they be faster? Surely. Need they be faster? You have to supply your own answer there. Can they be faster on a shoestring budget? If you figure out how be sure to share.
3DMark01 - 25,059
3Dmark03 - 16,641
3DMark05 - 7,685
AquaMark3 - 76,275
SuperPI 1M - 33.984s
Bear in mind that these are real-world results. By that I mean zero benchmark-specific optimization. No LOD tweaks, full quality settings, etc.
Here is the current state-of-the-cheap:
Abit AG8-V i915p m/b
Retail P4-506 @ 200fsb/4GHz
Retail Intel aluminum heatsink
2x512MB BH5 in 1:1 (400MHz) 2-2-2-4
EVGA 7800GT, 480/1170MHz (stock cooling)
Sound Bastid Live
Antec TPII-480
XP Pro SP1 - 78.01 driver
Know Nuttin
11-04-05, 11:05 PM
very very nice. I always thought about what it would be like to get one of those instead of my 630.
To be honest, I'd rather have the 630. But it comes at a price. 630 needs fsb to OC, and that fsb really raises the financial stakes. I would love to have your AL8 and DDR2 ram, but I simply couldn't afford them along with 630 and a 7800GT. PC system design is always the art of compromise, and this is a compromise that works for me.
Killaapp
11-05-05, 12:23 AM
Larva - that is great to hear of your success. I still can't believe Intel offers such a great 4ghz solution for only $111! Do you plan on upgrading the hsf? Maybe something along the lines of an xp-120 or xp-90c?
Either way, that is very exciting, and I am very jealous of your new 7800gt!
Have fun, game away!
Jame Gumb
11-05-05, 05:19 AM
I was wondering what happened when I tried the demo out, I thought it was corrupted. I was about to buy C0D 2 next Thursday. I'm a devout C0D player and this has thrown me for loop. Not the kinda news I wanted to hear this early in the morning, thanks for the heads up larva. I need a loophole quick like.
Do you plan on upgrading the hsf? Maybe something along the lines of an xp-120 or xp-90c?I'm going to try my Freezer 4 with a 92mm fan fitted as soon as my Thermalright LGA775 adaptor gets here. If that won't cut it I'll order a SI-120 for it. Hopefully better cooling will allow me to drop the Vcore a notch or two.
Very similar O/C when compared to the 506 I played with a while ago. With good case cooling, any of the Abit or Asus LGA775 mobos will have no problem handling 1.5v and the Prescotts sure don't seem to mind either as long as they have good cooling too. Like you said, the i915 is not a great O/C star, but if you are running 200 FSB, then all you really need is stability and those AG8 mobos are rock stable from 200 to about 220 FSB (seems like ATI cards could tolerate up to 230-240 FSB). A well thought out budget system.
Yeah, I'm not particularly worried from the safety aspect, but OTH this chip doesn't appear to have any more than 4GHz in it. I think a better chip would achieve 4GHz on less Vcore and probably do 4.4GHz at this Vcore. But there is always a better chip...
I do like the AG8 mb. As long as you can abide by the fsb limits, it is very nice. It has an enormously robust PWM section, four phase w/4 FETs per phase with large inductors and capacitors. It doesn't struggle nearly as much driving this chip at 4GHz and 1.5V as my AI7 did driving my 2.8c at 3.6GHz and 1.7V. And this chip will likely stand 1.5V for longer than the 2.8c would have stood 1.7, so it's a definite improvement aside from the small performance increase.
(HR)Titan
11-05-05, 08:37 AM
larva , very nice job
good luck man
;)
Know Nuttin
11-05-05, 09:38 AM
I found this AL8-V and Mushkin combo for $185CDN + 7% tax. Brand new. I couldn't resist. If it was full price, I wouldn't have gone for it.
You are correct though, my setup requires much in the way of overclocking the FSB but I could sit pretty at 266FSB since the 945 chipset natively supports it.
Either way, you have a very fast system on the cheap. If I had to set one up again, I would probably go that route as well.
Yep 266fsb is specification for 945p, but it is an unrealistic OC for 915p. That was the point. Either way it drives you into a more expensive board, new ram to maximize what is in itself a more expensive cpu. I could not do those things and still afford the 7800GT, and the video need was what was driving the upgrade.
Looks like you got a great deal on your board/ram. I don't speak Canadian, but that seems like a deal, anyway :p If I could have afforded it I would have got the AL8, 2GB of DDR2, and a 630 and shot for 266fsb in 1:1 with the cheapest PC4200 1GB DDR2 sticks I could find.
Thanks for the kind words, all. This thread was intended to stress that there are many valid means for cat-skinning, even if this one doesn't fit the typical more-is-better approach to OCing. It's a compromise, but at some level anything is, and this compromise works.
Jame Gumb
11-05-05, 08:22 PM
big larva, how loud is that 7800gt on reboot? Seems like it was only yesterday that I did that Aerocool mod to my 5900. I think this is the loophole for me. I don't want to blow my entire load before Intel's 2nd quarter. I have to get C0D2 though.
big larva, how loud is that 7800gt on reboot? Seems like it was only yesterday that I did that Aerocool mod to my 5900. I think this is the loophole for me. I don't want to blow my entire load before Intel's 2nd quarter. I have to get C0D2 though.The fan used is very quiet, as far as I can tell. I still have the stock Intel CPU fan wailing away though, so until I get that puppy out of there it's hard to accurately assess the noise level of the video card's fan.
BTW, if it is the VM-101 AeroCool you refer to it will work on the 7800GT also. The 5900 makes more heat. I'm going to use mine on my 7800GT as soon as I can find a stock 6800GT or Ultra memory heatsink to use in conjunction with the VM-101. I don't like stick-on memory heatsinks, and I don't really want to epoxy a set on a card that carries a lifetime warranty.
Stratcat
11-05-05, 11:52 PM
Darn Intel & their new numbering system...I actually had to look this thing up! :rolleyes:
Very nice "build to suit the purpose", Larva! :cool:
I've seen several peeps I know from another forum doing very well OCing the 256K cache Pressy Celerys to a 200MHz FSB, but I was not even aware of this 1MB cache chip existing. Nice find.
As for the 1.5Vcore, I wouldn't worry at all, if these chips are of the same ilk as other Pressys, 'cuz they'll seemingly take as much Vcore as you can give 'em, as long as you can cool 'em!
And speaking of which...Is the stock HSF holding it's own under 1.5Vcore?
I'd suspect it might be getting a bit on the warm side using the stock HSF.
My OCed Prescotts (C0/D0/E0) never could manage stress testing using the stock HSF. But being hyperthreaded, I stability tested using dual Priming, which always seemed to add another 5 - 6*C to the temps.
Strat
Temperature actually seems very well controlled, considering the heatsink doesn't even have a copper core. I'm using the PWM-scheme fan speed control in my Abit's bios, with the fan set to 65C 100% duty cycle. The fan spools up with virtually any cpu load, and with anything like full load runs WFO (3500rpm). Although fairly loud, this appears enough fan speed to halt the temperature rise in its tracks. Loaded temp barely exceeds 60C.
Honestly, I was worried that the legendary power consumption and heat production of the Prescott would seriously upset my system's balance. But it appears it will be no issue at all, with the motherboard's power supply fully up to the load, the TPII480 able to cope, and the heat production workable. I think when I get a real heatsink fitted the noise level will only be a bit higher than it was with my Northwood setup.
jokers_greg
11-06-05, 10:19 AM
Larva im getting a 506 aswell, on stock cooling most likely, but with some crappy generic DDR2, and an AL8-V. YOu think i might get similar results? better, worse? not graphically though, ur 7800 will crap on my X700 pro.
From what I've seen my 506 is nearly as bad as they get, so I think 4GHz will be realized with nearly all examples. I would recommend a better heatsink than stock, but it doesn't seem necessary to stabilize my particular chip at 4GHz. I'm well over the noise, however. The use of DDR2 should improve your core performance slightly over the DDR I am using. I would expect ~1 second better superPi performance and slightly higher PCMark numbers with the use of DDR2. 3D performance will pick up a very slight bit, but of course will be masked by the X700.
jokers_greg
11-06-05, 12:06 PM
yea i know, the X700, well lets just say its not the cream of the crop.. lol. Anyways i was just wondering what you meant by ur chip not being nearly as bad as they get. There's only one revision of this chip right? umm, one more thing, would it be necessary to get tighter timed, higher clocked DDR2? i mean it is a 533mhz FSB cpu, so getting it to 4ghz is still leaving headroom for the RAM. (at a 1:1 divider). THink i'd see better oc's with better RAM? or is it not really worth it with a 533mhz FSB CPU?
Anyways i was just wondering what you meant by ur chip not being nearly as bad as they get. There's only one revision of this chip right?
Yes, but keep in mind that no two chips are identical.
yea i know, the X700, well lets just say its not the cream of the crop.. lol. Anyways i was just wondering what you meant by ur chip not being nearly as bad as they get. There's only one revision of this chip right? umm, one more thing, would it be necessary to get tighter timed, higher clocked DDR2? i mean it is a 533mhz FSB cpu, so getting it to 4ghz is still leaving headroom for the RAM. (at a 1:1 divider). THink i'd see better oc's with better RAM? or is it not really worth it with a 533mhz FSB CPU?As what said, cpus vary. It's hard to do much OCing without that fact being painfully obvious. As an example I've had P4-1.8s that could only run 2.25GHz, and ones that reached 3.42GHz.
As far as the ram goes, I don't have any experience with DDR2 to base an opinion on. You really need to ask somebody with DDR2 experience exactly where the smart money is spent. If you run 1:1 mode you can surely get by with about any DDR2, but I would try to run a multiplier at 200fsb to increase the ram speed beyond 400MHz. 1:1 is probably optimal for the DDR I am using, but likely would limit performance with DDR2. I would probably have bought some inexpensive PC4200 had I gone the DDR2 route, as the whole idea of a 506 system is to do things cheaply.
Nice setup bro, cheap and cheerfull :)
One question though - you said you found a 6800NU not up to the task?
I replaced my dead 6800gt with one, unlocked it and clocked it succesfully, and was able to score more than my stock gt.
As far as games go i havent tried the one you were reffering to, I have recently tried Q4 which i run at 1280x1024 4xAA.
Obviously the 7800's are better, but I find this card runs anything i throw at it happily :)
Very nice thread btw - real nice to read through!
-Webzta
LesterP
11-06-05, 09:42 PM
i second the unlocked 6800 scenario. bought a used Gainward on craigslist for $100 and it unlocked and with a bit of voltage put to the ram and core - it runs 425/980 happily. a good deal faster than a stock GT. i realize that i got a good deal and a good card, but there are plenty of used unlocked cards on the various fs/ft forums that sell below $150, definitely won't touch a 7800GT tho, but meets the cheap requirement.
If a 6800nu happens to unlock and OC, yeah, its a pretty good thing. But mine did neither. At 12 pipes/5 vertex and 350/700MHz, it wasn't good enough to satisfy me. Believe me, I bought the card, ate the restock, and paid for the 7800, if I could have saved the money the 7800GT cost over the 6800nu, I would have.
I run my games at 1680x1050 resolution and essentially maximum detail, and resolution is a killer. Using the LCD makes you inflexible with respect to resolution in most games. Also, I've played Q3 deathmatch at 125+ fps for years, so I like things fast.
In my case the only was to get the 16 pipe 6800 performance was to buy a real GT, and those cost only $50 less than a 7800GT. The kicker was that the main reason I wanted a fresh video card was to play COD2, a $50 game included with my 7800GT. It's hard to imagine paying the same money for a 6800GT, considering the 7800GT is roughly twice as capable in most games.
3DFlyer
11-06-05, 11:52 PM
I read this thread a couple days ago, and just thought I'd point out that tis is very helpful. This is a good setup, and it didn't cost an arm and a leg. For people who want to play the high end games, but don't have large amounts of cash to spend on a system to play these new games it will really be helpful.
We see alot of the high end cutting edge stuff, but unfortunately that stuff is comes at a very high price.
I'm impressed with the performance that Larva got on this system, and it will help alot of guys be able to upgrade to a system that will play the latst stuff, and will also be useful as a good all around computer.
That's a nice setup larva! :)
microfire
11-07-05, 05:36 AM
larva:
Just out of interest, using EVEREST Home Edition, memory latency benchmark, what is your score?
I noticed about the AI7 compared to the P4C800-E, the latency was ~8-12% faster.
Personally I think latency is very important, in every aspect. Quicker you can tweak latency the more responsive the system as a whole becomes.
Is there any type of PAT or simular settings for your board in the bios? If not, any software programs to tweak it?
Fair shout mate just wondered :)
My mate has a dell fp something or other, 21" dvi - it's a killer as it auto selects res, he has to buy the latest+best card just to run most games :P
Nice system mate, and nice thread!
-Webzta
Jame Gumb
11-07-05, 01:35 PM
Wow! I just witnessed the math in that 630 thread, this 504 is a diamond in the ruff! I can't find her for $111 anymore though. I'm thinking about buying some insurance ($20), an upgrade path to cedar mill with the
ABIT AL8-V Socket T Intel 945P ATX ($120)
3DFlyer
11-07-05, 02:00 PM
Wow! I just witnessed the math in that 630 thread, this 504 is a diamond in the ruff! I can't find her for $111 anymore though. I'm thinking about buying some insurance ($20), an upgrade path to cedar mill with the
ABIT AL8-V Socket T Intel 945P ATX ($120)
If yuo were talking about Blackmages 630 thread, he was using an nf4 board. They are very low OC'ers. He is getting 3.9 on a chip that is capable of every bit of 4.3Ghz on air. Those boards are very poor, and they are terrible OC'ers.
Blackmage
11-07-05, 02:59 PM
If yuo were talking about Blackmages 630 thread, he was using an nf4 board. They are very low OC'ers. He is getting 3.9 on a chip that is capable of every bit of 4.3Ghz on air. Those boards are very poor, and they are terrible OC'ers.
yes it is, anyway great news im getting a P5WD2 when payday come's, nextweek :D. so i may have an SLI board up for sale for dirt cheap £70.
If yuo were talking about Blackmages 630 thread, he was using an nf4 board. They are very low OC'ers. He is getting 3.9 on a chip that is capable of every bit of 4.3Ghz on air. Those boards are very poor, and they are terrible OC'ers.Well, my chip is on a poor overclocker, too. I saw another chip that had a 1.2875V VID instead of this one's 1.4V, I'm sure it would hit 4.5GHz on air. The point of the comparison is not that either one of the rigs is optimal, but rather comparable. This allows some insight into what the 506 gives up, and what it doesn't.
ShakyJake
11-07-05, 09:36 PM
This particular 506 is no great shakes. It is very stable at 4GHz, but required 1.51V to stabilze in all tests and apps tried. Its default VID is 1.4V, I've seen another 506 with a 1.2875V VID. I'm sure it would reach 4GHz with less voltage than this example, but this one works. I'm not going to cry over endangering a $111 cpu, even if I did tend to spare the Vcore (which I don't).
I have a similar setup - 506 on an ABIT AS8 (I already had a 6800GT so needed an AGP board). I too require 1.51V for it to be completely stable. Runs a smidgen hotter than I'd like, but like you said the CPU cost $115..who cares if it's lifespan is a bit lower.
3DFlyer
11-08-05, 12:20 AM
Well, my chip is on a poor overclocker, too. I saw another chip that had a 1.2875V VID instead of this one's 1.4V, I'm sure it would hit 4.5GHz on air. The point of the comparison is not that either one of the rigs is optimal, but rather comparable. This allows some insight into what the 506 gives up, and what it doesn't.
I wouldn't say yours is poor. You have an Intel chipset. it may not be the latest, but I'll take that board anyday over one of the nf4's. Blackmage had to do alot of work to get that thing where it's at, and it took alot of voltage. On an Intel chipset board it wouldn't take that kind of voltage.
I think you have a very good setup larva. In fact, like I said earlier, I'm very impressed with it's performance. You have a knack for picking things that run very well, yet won't break the bank account. That's very helpful to other's.
I'm so glad Blackmage was able to afford the new P5WD board. I can gaurantee that he'll be able to go straight to 4.3, and probably hit 4.5 easily at 1.45.
He's currently pumping 1.5v through it and seeing 3.9. That is the board and the chipset casuing that. There is no call at all for having to pump that kind of voltage to get a low clock on a CPU that's as capable as a 6xx series CPU. We've seen it time and time again on this forum. People are so dang mad at nVidia for pushing those boards out. I'm not slamming what somebody bought. It's not their fault, it's nVidia's for putting out that stuff. They know better than that. Those boards are supposed to be enthusiast level boards, and the guys paid a hefty price for them. None of them will do above 270, and there are boards out there that do 300+FSB on Intel chipsets.
You know how I am about running Intel with Intel larva. I'm not like that because of fanboism. I got like that because Intel earned that good rep. They earned it with me and many others.
...and I STILL would take your board over that nf4. I know with an Intel chipset I get stability and reliability, and comes before OC'ing ability, OC'ing is the next thing I consider. A clock is meaningless without stability because you can't use it if it's not stable.
Like you said, it still may be a good comparison I was just pointing out the lack of quality on those nf4 boards. Your Intel board is what I would consider a very high quality board. Abit an Asus is topline stuff.
Blackmage
11-08-05, 03:11 AM
I wouldn't say yours is poor. You have an Intel chipset. it may not be the latest, but I'll take that board anyday over one of the nf4's. Blackmage had to do alot of work to get that thing where it's at, and it took alot of voltage. On an Intel chipset board it wouldn't take that kind of voltage.
I think you have a very good setup larva. In fact, like I said earlier, I'm very impressed with it's performance. You have a knack for picking things that run very well, yet won't break the bank account. That's very helpful to other's.
I'm so glad Blackmage was able to afford the new P5WD board. I can gaurantee that he'll be able to go straight to 4.3, and probably hit 4.5 easily at 1.45.
He's currently pumping 1.5v through it and seeing 3.9. That is the board and the chipset casuing that. There is no call at all for having to pump that kind of voltage to get a low clock on a CPU that's as capable as a 6xx series CPU. We've seen it time and time again on this forum. People are so dang mad at nVidia for pushing those boards out. I'm not slamming what somebody bought. It's not their fault, it's nVidia's for putting out that stuff. They know better than that. Those boards are supposed to be enthusiast level boards, and the guys paid a hefty price for them. None of them will do above 270, and there are boards out there that do 300+FSB on Intel chipsets.
You know how I am about running Intel with Intel larva. I'm not like that because of fanboism. I got like that because Intel earned that good rep. They earned it with me and many others.
...and I STILL would take your board over that nf4. I know with an Intel chipset I get stability and reliability, and comes before OC'ing ability, OC'ing is the next thing I consider. A clock is meaningless without stability because you can't use it if it's not stable.
Like you said, it still may be a good comparison I was just pointing out the lack of quality on those nf4 boards. Your Intel board is what I would consider a very high quality board. Abit an Asus is topline stuff.
I like you.(no not in that way) i agree 100% the system is unstable when overclocked, also sometimes at stock i have found that nforce has problems with Direct 3d and not openGL, as i have been playing games and CS: S a DIRECT3d games sometimes becomes unstable where i can play doom3/quake4 for ages.
i can't wait to sell this suck to some one for really cheap. egg is selling it for 166.00 im going to sell it for $120
larva:
Just out of interest, using EVEREST Home Edition, memory latency benchmark, what is your score?
I noticed about the AI7 compared to the P4C800-E, the latency was ~8-12% faster.
Personally I think latency is very important, in every aspect. Quicker you can tweak latency the more responsive the system as a whole becomes.
Is there any type of PAT or simular settings for your board in the bios? If not, any software programs to tweak it?Sorry, forgot about this question.
Everest reads ~85ms with my BH5 running in 1:1 mode at 400MHz with 2-2-2-4 timings. As I recall my AI7 read about 75ms with the memory in 5:4 at 250fsb for 400MHz, with 2-2-2-5 and GAT SR. There are no PAT-like features in the AG8 bios, just voltage, speed, and timings.
microfire
11-11-05, 11:47 PM
Sorry, forgot about this question.
Everest reads ~85ms with my BH5 running in 1:1 mode at 400MHz with 2-2-2-4 timings. As I recall my AI7 read about 75ms with the memory in 5:4 at 250fsb for 400MHz, with 2-2-2-5 and GAT SR. There are no PAT-like features in the AG8 bios, just voltage, speed, and timings.
Have to comment you make good logical choices when building your main rig.
The latency has decreased with the new intel chipsets.
The new technology makes your new build an excellent system, combo of the right selected parts without decreasing your wallet.
The AI7 with 1GB of BH-5 at 233 MHz 1:1 and timings tweaked scored 58ns, thats 10ns faster than the P4C800-E (only reason I changed, the Asus can handle 2GB of BH-5).
btw. See the SBLive! still there in the sig, still standing the test of time.
I appreciate the kind words, but the main logic at work here is "cheap"... heh. But it is always fun to see just how far you can make six cents go, even if you find you aren't really saving anything in the long run. And as 3D game-playing power was the goal, and it is almost entirely a function of CPU power and graphics card, it was possible to create decent results on a shoestring budget.
The other logic at work is the knowledge that anytime you can find a 133fsb chip you can run at 200fsb you are going to have OCing fun and a fast system on the cheap. This is why I overclock--to reveal the $111 64bit 4GHz 800fsb non-HT Prescott Intel never built. Think of it as a the de-crippled Celeron from Hell.
I found some AI7 numbers, I was running 68.2ms with my razer-sharp 257fsb/5:4/411MHz 2-2-2-5 GAT SR 2.8c tune. I tried 2GB in that setup and it **** all over itself. I can understand the Asus handling 2GB better than the AI7, it can get nothing but better in that regard. I can also see 58ms happening at 233fsb/1:1. But even though it makes sense in a relative manner, it is shocking to think that Intel manages that kind of latency without the benefit of an on-die controller.
The AG8 surely doesn't push the ram as hard as the AI7 did, but like your move to the Asus, that may be just the ticket as 1GB starts to look puny. I've got some OCZ Value that will be here Monday that I am going to try to run along with the BH5. Try that with an AI7.
One thing that is rinky-dink about the AG8 is the lack of the nice Intel HD sound codec typically found on i915p boards. It has the same-old same-old ALC658 6 channel setup. I find the CPU utilization of it high in games, so the Sound Bastid Lives!.
TheRedDawg
02-12-06, 11:46 AM
But it is always fun to see just how far you can make six cents go.
My time is worth more than the money saved. LOL
:rolleyes:
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.