You guyz are good, so I come to you.....

[Gandalf]

for some advice.

I really want to start doing some programming, but the most I have done (if you can call is 'programming') is fooling around in the windows registry.

Any of you know where to start?

[JigPu]

Well, probably the most popular starting points are C (or C++) and Visual BASIC. I don't have experience with either (me just know BASIC and Pascal), however Visual BASIC is supposed to be really easy, and C++ something that everyone uses. Either one, somebody programs it!

JigPu

[nerd4life]

i read somewhere that BASIC is bad to start off with. think it said that microsoft had there own little way of doing things, and that you should have a firmer foundation such as C or PASCAL. if i can find that article, ill post it later.

[Gandalf]

Thanx man....I am patient.....

[nerd4life]

hmm,

seriously doubt ill ever find that article. i looked a little, and i have no clue where i read that. i posted the question on another forum, so keep an eye on this, maybe these guys can help too.

http://www.3dforums.com/?action=topicshow&forum_id=143&post_id=7497&page_id=1&loc=49

[azhari]

I've been using Visual Basic for years and love it. Who cares if Microsoft tweaks it to their own end, its easy to learn and use, and very widespread.

C++ is probably the most useful, but if you plan to write GUI programs, go VB. A simple GUI app may take a couple of hours in C++ or JAVA, but only a matter of minutes in VB.

If you are a student, you can get the Academic version of VB 6 Pro for very cheap, in fact, I got mine from our bookstore for about $75. Cant' beat the ease of use (for GUI) with any other language.

[dcarrera]

DO NOT start with BASIC. It is a crappy language, it teaches you bad programming and you can't do anything neat with it any ways.

C and C++ are popular and powerful, but they are also difficult. They are bad for a beginner.

I don't know VB, but my bad experience with BASIC makes be biased against it.

PASCAL is good for learning, but the language is kind of dying out. I don't think I've ever seen a real application written on it. It's often use to teach programming though.

I personally recommend Perl and Python. (www.perl.org and www.python.org). Both run on both Windows and Linux. Perl is good for text processing. Python is Object Oriented.

If you want to make a graphical program I'd say Python would be good for that.

[azhari]

Originally posted by dcarrera
DO NOT start with BASIC. It is a crappy language, it teaches you bad programming and you can't do anything neat with it any ways.

I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with you there. I have used VB to write all kinds of neat programs. From game utilities (for AD&D) to frontend control for nuclear physics experiments. Don't knock it till you've tried it.

I write programs in C++, Java, VB, and even Postscript (haven't tried Pearl or Python, but have heard good things about both). To say that a language teaches you bad programming is just not true. A programming language is just a protocol, not a habbit (ok, maybe an addiction for some :D ) BASIC is easy and if used in VB, VERY powerful. And VB does teach you OOP basics.

[Gonzo]

I wasnt going to get into this but I thought I might just throw out my input. I only have experience in VB and C++. I think for a beginer VB is the way to go. Once you learn the interface it takes only a matter of minutes to make a program that does something. But now that I think about it, it only took me like 20 minutes to make C++ print "Hello World". The point is that VB is good for beginners because it is reletively easy to make a working program, and it looks like the windows apps that we are all use to. C++ was discuraging for me because I took a semester of it and still had nothing but a command line interface, and it was nearly half way through the semester before we made any programs that did anything besides calculations.
VB is a confidence booster and it is easy to make useful applications. I picked up a book and started learning VB, the 3rd program I made was a picture viewer that I found useful and use it to this day.
Whatever language you choose to learn will be useful because you will learn the basic concepts of programming that apply to all programing languages (variables, if statements, loops, ect.) The best way to choose a language to learn might be to choose whatever language you have the most readily available refrences and software.

[dcarrera]

Originally posted by azhari


I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with you there. I have used VB to write all kinds of neat programs. From game utilities (for AD&D) to frontend control for nuclear physics experiments. Don't knock it till you've tried it.

I write programs in C++, Java, VB, and even Postscript (haven't tried Pearl or Python, but have heard good things about both). To say that a language teaches you bad programming is just not true. A programming language is just a protocol, not a habbit (ok, maybe an addiction for some :D ) BASIC is easy and if used in VB, VERY powerful. And VB does teach you OOP basics.

I apologize. I my criticism was based on my experience with BASIC. I haven't really tried VB so I will widthold judgement.

BASIC was easy, but later on I realized that it encouraged bad programming (for instance, it encouraged the use of GOTOs).

I agree 100% that C and C++ are hard for a beginner. That's why I suggested Perl and Python. Both are well designed and easy without compromising power.

[JigPu]

GOTO isn't a horible statement, it just has better alternitives. GOTO is the only branching statement (other than GOSUB and such), but you can still use it with IF statements to controll the program. It does make things look messy (and can make things impossible to read if you aren't carefull), but with the BASIC versions I program with, things are much easier to read than with the old BASIC interface. So what do you guys use in C to branch??

This wasn't ment to bash what you said... I know all about the bad programming BASIC teaches you, but if you know what you are doing, and want to ever make sense of the code again, you have to use it wisely.

BASIC is what I write EVERYTHING with (unless I need to use graphics.... BASIC and graphics don't mix). I've gotten very good at it over the years, and can make a program that can do almost anything (as long as you don't want graphics.... I know Pascal for graphics purposes).

I'd go with VB or one of the C languages (never tried either). BASIC is going out of date, and nobody uses it anymore. Same with Pascal. C has cleared the way for the future of programming.

JigPu

[dcarrera]

Thanks for not bashing. I don't intend any bashing either, but in reply to your comments about GOTO:

The problem with GOTO is that there is a branching statement at all. It is poor technique to have your program jumping all over your code. You should use function calls instead (and objects in larger programs).

The fundamental of good program design is to split it into small, logically-contained pieces, so you only deal with a manageable chunch at a time. GOTOs go largely against that philosophy. The require you to be aware of other parts of the code. That might be okay on a small program, but it doesn't scale well.

[jbird]

If you are looking for a job as a programmer, C/C++ and/or JAVA. JAVA tends to be easier than C++ while C is still used for "speed" programs.

[PolyPill]

I learned from writing BASH and PERL scripts in Linux and then skipped C and went straight to the object orientated C++ (once you know C++ C is very easy to pick up)

I think that VB is horrible, but then I think Visual anything is bad programming practices.

I say start with scripting languages to get a feel for how things are done, it's much harder to just right into C/C++ without any knowledge of programming. If you don't believe me go sit through any 1st or 2nd year Comp Sci class. Most of the students don't have a clue what they're doing, and takes them a lot longer to learn.

I think Linux is a great learning environment for programming because all the tools are freely available and you have more options of what you want to try.

If learning a new OS is too much, then pick up a JAVA book. I say JAVA because you don't have to worry about memory leaks and things like that. Maybe play with BASIC, but don't spend too much time with it, there's just too many limitations.

[ButcherUK]

Originally posted by JigPu
So what do you guys use in C to branch??


Well usually if, for or while... but you can even use goto (though it;s not usually appropriate). Unless by branch you mean call a function (that's more like gosub though).

[a_yeap]

I'm still very much a beginner but I had the same problem and I jumped about programming languages...

I think C and that set of languages are harder to learn but its good because you don't need an expensive IDE

VB makes nicer programs and yes, a confidence booster...but it doesn't feel like what a programming language is supposed to be like...I think its better just to get into the command line and compile **** from there...Unix style

PASCAL is the easiest...you need a PASCAL compiler but it does feel like you're programming with commands and stuff without point-and-click frills...PLUS...PASCAL was designed as a beginner's programming language to teach people to program...

Its up to you which one you choose

[nil_esh]

I started on BASIC and it screwed me up for years, at least as far as structured programming is concerned (though I ended being very comfortable with assembly, state machines, and low-level stuff). C/C++ and Pascal are the obvious starting points. Though I would also recommend Java, start out writing some console applications. Its relatively easy to write useful apps in Java, and you'll learn plenty from the experience. RAD tools like Borland C++Builder and JBuilder (and Delphi) will allow you to ignore the complexities of writing GUI functions, but if you jump straight into them you won't get a solid foundation of the languages. Don't worry about GUI in the beginning. RAD tools are definitely something to look into later.

VB is great for writing quick little programs that you don't plan to use constantly. If you don't really want to be a "programmer" and just want to throw together apps, VB might be a good way to go. Though I find Borland C++Builder just as quick and easy. Don't use VB if you plan on distributing your apps :)

Good luck!