View Full Version : Chip of Choice?
so batboy and all you noobs, whats the latest greatest? the 650 looks to be popular. i'm looking for 4ghz stable minimum on air.
my old 3.0 isn't cutting it and i know its not a great oc'r so i never bothered.
i've had this fatality board for a year and never overclocked with it. its time to put it to use. one of my problems right now though is cooling. even at stock 3.0 my rig is running 44-45 idle and 55-56 loaded. with the heatsink and fan i'm using i can't believe its this high. one thing may be that the heatsink is not on solidly because its a pain in the ass to install as its a VERY tight fit. which is also why i'm hesitant to take it off and put it back on again without a new chip being installed.
these temps are just using number crunching not including video card heat additions.
i really hate this case so it will probably leave when i do this little makeover. i'll make sure the new one has better airflow.
Maxvla
Egads. Long time :p
4GHz is a pretty tame goal these days. I figured even a lowly $111 P4 506 ought to do it, worst case, and it worked out. 630's are cheap these days, with 266fsb providing 4GHz. Most seem capable of 4.2-4.3GHz on air, so 4GHz is pretty much assured. Since your board is in spec at 266fsb it should be as easy for you to run a 630 at 4GHz as it is for me to run it with my 506.
As far as your XP-120 goes, make sure yours is working properly. Feel all pipes under load and make sure they are hot. I've seen reports of dead heatpipes (cold under load). Also make sure the base is flat, some have real problems as delivered. If you have any doubt I'd contact TR, chances are pretty good they will make it right, pronto.
If you want to shoot for more than 4GHz the 630s will do it, but of course more fsb will complicate ram/mb stability. 640s or 650s will do 4.2-4.4GHz reliably on air, but it's not as foolproof as 4GHz with a 630. And you can always push the fsb up from 266 with the 630 if you are feeling froggy.
ahh its my favorite worm! :cool:
yeah i figured 4ghz was tame as you said but i also said it was minimum 4.2-4.4 was really what i had in mind anyways. i haven't been in the know on P4's in about a year and at that time it was standard to get about 400-600mhz from a decent chip but not much more due to heat problems.
if i'm getting back into this i might as well give it a good shot. 640-650 best bet for ~4.4ghz stable on air?
while i have you here... any thoughts on video? my WoW performance is quite subpar even with a pretty decent system. 6600GT is certainly not a high performance card and i'm looking for something better. price limit around $350-400. really doesn't matter which nvidia/ati.
my ram should be good for plenty of ocing. when i bought it it was clearly the best ram nobody knew about (according to all the research i did on ram at the time) and i've never had a problem with it. i haven't overclocked with it yet, but i guess we'll find out soon enough. right now its running at a mild 266mhz 4 4 4 12 default voltage.
trigger_sad
11-27-05, 11:31 PM
I'd go for a 640, i'm was running 4.4GHz on it for quite some on really crappy watercooling (equivalent of good aircooling) so you should be able to do the same, and for $200 it's quite a buy.
Hey Maxvla, good ta see ya again. Missed you. :)
I'd go for a 640, i'm was running 4.4GHz on it for quite some on really crappy watercooling (equivalent of good aircooling) so you should be able to do the same, and for $200 it's quite a buy.
looks pretty good. 16x is a decent multipler.
is it just me or are good intel chips pretty cheap now? i honestly was prepared to spend 350 or more for a decent chip.
Hey Maxvla, good ta see ya again. Missed you. :)
Hey! been a while but nice to see you also. :cool:
trigger_sad
11-28-05, 12:09 AM
Yeah that's the beauty of good cheap OC chips, each company has it IMO. Intel has the 630-650s and AMD has the Opty 14x line.
if i'm getting back into this i might as well give it a good shot. 640-650 best bet for ~4.4ghz stable on air?It all depends on exactly what fsb you can support through your mb and memory's characteristics. Each step up will give you a greater multiplier and therefore lessen the chances of mb or ram limiting you at a given clock rate. Core quality seems consistantly high on all the 6xx chips, so it's just a matter of fsb x multiplier = cpu rate and what the implications of it are for your given set of components.
while i have you here... any thoughts on video? my WoW performance is quite subpar even with a pretty decent system. 6600GT is certainly not a high performance card and i'm looking for something better. price limit around $350-400. really doesn't matter which nvidia/ati.Without doubt I would recommend a 7800GT. That's why I got the LGA mb/cpu, to hold the 7800GT. They are less than $350 these days and kick all sorts of ass for that price range. The 7800GTX is a little better, but it's only a little--and that means the 7800GT is really damn fast too.
I got the EVGA 445/1070 Aluminum heatsink model for 339 w/free COD2 from ZZF. It does (with random Nvidia WHQL driver and no optimization) 25K on 3DM01, 16.6K on 03, and 7.6K on 05 with nothing more than my 506 to run it. Gameplay is superb. I ran those scores at 480/1170MHz.
my ram should be good for plenty of ocing. when i bought it it was clearly the best ram nobody knew about (according to all the research i did on ram at the time) and i've never had a problem with it. i haven't overclocked with it yet, but i guess we'll find out soon enough. right now its running at a mild 266mhz 4 4 4 12 default voltage.You should be able to run 1:1 mode and 266fsb at minimum, then. Just pick from 630, 640, or 650 based on multiplier, fsb expectation, cpu clock goals, and pocketbook. I can tell you 15x266 -> 4GHz is really safe, 16x266 -> 4.2+ pretty safe, 17x266 -> 4.5+ not as likely, etc. Obviously you can back the fsb down from 266 if you get a mediocre 640 or 650, but if you slide too far you end up with a pricey system that a 630 could match.
This is the crystal-ball side of intel overclocking. Due to the generally locked muliplier you have to guess before just how much speed your particular core will yield. Will it do 4.5GHz with ease? 4.4? Struggle at 4.25? Refuse to do over 4... The possiblities are endless, and each one works backwards to a different optimal fsb. I tend to take the safest alternative; you can select the one that strikes you as reasonable considering your budget for this operation.
trigger_sad
11-28-05, 12:24 AM
Very good explanation larva ::clap::
assuming a 630 would do 4.2-4.4 do you think a system would be able to run 280-295mhz stable? i really have no idea about what this 925 platform will do. i know i got my a64 up around 340fsb before it was unstable, but thats a completely different animal.
i had a feeling the 7800GT would be the way to go. i'll check some reviews for some real numbers comparisons.
larva i'm looking at those evga 7800gt's and i'm a bit confused. there are 3 seperate models on newegg. one is 445/1070 one is 460/1100 and one is 470/1100 with different model numbers and increasing price from 299 (MiR) to 349. which one did you buy? also from what i'm seeing you have to talk to the CoD2 people seperately to get your game?
what do you think of the xfx 7800gt? seems to be pretty popular and its a good price at $315.
Hey Max, good to see ya again.
I would recommend the 640. I think it would give you the best FSB match for your mobo. Those Abit AA8XE series boards seem to top out at about 285 to 290 FSB on average (mine will do 291 but flakes out above that point). If you get a good 640, then your mobo will easily handle at least 4.4 gig and probably up to 4.5 or so.
Ok, about the XP-120 heatsink. They can be a pain to mount squarely. Mine started gradually getting worse. I pulled it off a couple of times and finally figured out it had slightly warped. After carefully lapping it, temps went back down to normal again. Another thing to keep in mind is those Abit mobos tend to report a little higher temps than actual. One of the newer BIOS updates addresses this issue. I recommend updating to the newest BIOS, I saw a "drop" in temps just from that alone.
For your listed budget, I'd say one of the 7800 series vid card will probably be your best bang for the buck. Do a little research as to which one specifically.
If I remember right, you got Crucial RAM. That will easily do 1:1 with decent timings at 275 FSB (4.4 gig with a 640). You might even be able to run 3:4 ratio if you bump up memory voltage to 2.0v and relax timings. Good luck buddy, keep us posted.
speed bump
11-28-05, 10:07 AM
Maxvla you might wait one more month before upgrading as Intel is coming out with 65nm cedar mill chips for basically the same price as the 90nm chips they replace. They also seem to be alot lower in heat output and overclock well past 4ghz.
assuming a 630 would do 4.2-4.4 do you think a system would be able to run 280-295mhz stable? i really have no idea about what this 925 platform will do. i know i got my a64 up around 340fsb before it was unstable, but thats a completely different animal.Ay, there's the rub. I would counsel planning on a 630 at 266x15->4GHz or a 640 at 266x16->4.256GHz. If you get more with either, great, but don't count on it when rationalizing the purchase. I think an AA8XE and your ram should be good for some amount over 266 but I wouldn't count on it were it mine.
If you can select the proper chip, run the board at 266fsb or more, and end using up nearly all the chip's potential, you will have a great system. This is the sort of balance I try to strike. If I could have afforded it I would have bought an Abit 945p board, 2GB of cheapie DDR2, and a 630 and done the 266/4GHz thing. I'm pretty pessimistic when counting on a particular OC if I'm relying on the OC to make the purchase work.
i had a feeling the 7800GT would be the way to go. i'll check some reviews for some real numbers comparisons.Yeah, 7800GT brings all the traditional Nvidia virtues, great performance, and is affordable. My EVGA also brings nicities like a single link DVI port, a dual link DVI, HDTV out, and VIVO. A very deluxe solution, but be prepared to change the heatsink if you are noise-conscious.
larva i'm looking at those evga 7800gt's and i'm a bit confused. there are 3 seperate models on newegg. one is 445/1070 one is 460/1100 and one is 470/1100 with different model numbers and increasing price from 299 (MiR) to 349. which one did you buy? Mine is EVGA part number 256-P2-N515-AX. There are two models that are 445/1070, one that is 460/1100, and one that is 470/1100. My card ran 480/1170 on the stock heatsink, albeit with some noise. I think any of the stock EVGA cooling solutions will be loud under 3D load, so you may want to consider a AC NV Silencer, Aerocool VM-101 and a memory sink, or a Stasis 7800 cooler. All seem well able to deal with a 7800GT's heat output.
also from what i'm seeing you have to talk to the CoD2 people seperately to get your game?I don't know if the free CoD2 offer is still valid, but when it was, EVGA mailed you the CD seperately about a day after you registered the card on their site.
what do you think of the xfx 7800gt? seems to be pretty popular and its a good price at $315.I think all these 7800GTs are the same hardware, it's all reference Nvidia for the most part. The green PCB/reference aluminum heatsink 7800GTs are probably all made by Nvidia, anyway. I know my EVGA's PCB has an Nvidia part number right on it. Originality is not an active ingrediant, beyond the numbers and price. If you like the XFX deal better it's probably exactly the same hardware. The only variation I've seen is that I heard of a Leadtek that had Infineon ram instead of the common Samsung 2ns stuff most have, but it worked pretty well, too.
Hey Max, good to see ya again.
I would recommend the 640. I think it would give you the best FSB match for your mobo. Those Abit AA8XE series boards seem to top out at about 285 to 290 FSB on average (mine will do 291 but flakes out above that point). If you get a good 640, then your mobo will easily handle at least 4.4 gig and probably up to 4.5 or so.
thats what i was looking for :)
looks like 640 would be the best match if everything works out right.
Ok, about the XP-120 heatsink. They can be a pain to mount squarely. Mine started gradually getting worse. I pulled it off a couple of times and finally figured out it had slightly warped. After carefully lapping it, temps went back down to normal again. Another thing to keep in mind is those Abit mobos tend to report a little higher temps than actual. One of the newer BIOS updates addresses this issue. I recommend updating to the newest BIOS, I saw a "drop" in temps just from that alone.
interesting. i'll update the bios and see what that does and try to be more careful mounting when i get the new chip in. yeah i remembered abit boards reading high but this was a low end chip at stock getting these temps!
For your listed budget, I'd say one of the 7800 series vid card will probably be your best bang for the buck. Do a little research as to which one specifically.
spent a while last night reading up on 7800gt's and i'm pretty sure the evga 470/1100 for $349 is what i'm leaning towards. since most cards won't do much more than that i don't really have to bother with overclocking it.
If I remember right, you got Crucial RAM. That will easily do 1:1 with decent timings at 275 FSB (4.4 gig with a 640). You might even be able to run 3:4 ratio if you bump up memory voltage to 2.0v and relax timings. Good luck buddy, keep us posted.
what is considered good timings with ddr2? and you think this ram can do 366mhz relaxed with juice? :cool:
Maxvla you might wait one more month before upgrading as Intel is coming out with 65nm cedar mill chips for basically the same price as the 90nm chips they replace. They also seem to be alot lower in heat output and overclock well past 4ghz.
hmm any ideas exactly when or prices?
Mine is EVGA part number 256-P2-N515-AX. There are two models that are 445/1070, one that is 460/1100, and one that is 470/1100. My card ran 480/1170 on the stock heatsink, albeit with some noise. I think any of the stock EVGA cooling solutions will be loud under 3D load, so you may want to consider a AC NV Silencer, Aerocool VM-101 and a memory sink, or a Stasis 7800 cooler. All seem well able to deal with a 7800GT's heat output.
alright i'll check into those. probly wait and see just how loud it is though.
what is considered good timings with ddr2? and you think this ram can do 366mhz relaxed with juice?
At DDR2-533 speeds, 3-3-3-8 is considered excellent timings for DDR2. Most DDR2 running at DDR2-667 or higher speeds are probably using 4-4-4-10 or 5-5-5-12 timings. From my experience and what I've seen, most quality name brand PC2-4200 will reach PC2-5400 (DDR2-667) speeds with more voltage and by relaxing the timings. Don't know if your RAM can hit 360, but it might and is sure worth trying. DDR2 can easily handle 2.0v to 2.1v and lots of people are pushing 2.2v to 2.3v.
Jame Gumb
11-28-05, 01:43 PM
hmm any ideas exactly when or prices?
According to INQ:
In January, the new 65 nanometre Pentium 4 lamps numbered the 661, the 651, the 641 and the 631 will be priced up at $400, $270, $220 and $180 respectively.
speed bump
11-28-05, 05:59 PM
Supposedly they will come out on like Jan 1st or 14nth or something.
RangerXLT8
11-28-05, 06:47 PM
Buy some DRR2 with timings of 3-3-3-8 max. I cannot stand high timings. I refuse to lossen the 5-3-3-8 timings I have now and I know it's what is holding me back.
At DDR2-533 speeds, 3-3-3-8 is considered excellent timings for DDR2. Most DDR2 running at DDR2-667 or higher speeds are probably using 4-4-4-10 or 5-5-5-12 timings. From my experience and what I've seen, most quality name brand PC2-4200 will reach PC2-5400 (DDR2-667) speeds with more voltage and by relaxing the timings. Don't know if your RAM can hit 360, but it might and is sure worth trying. DDR2 can easily handle 2.0v to 2.1v and lots of people are pushing 2.2v to 2.3v.
Batboy has some OCZ EB rev.2 Platinum LE DDR2-533 coming to him that does 3-2-2-6 667mhz with 2.2, maybe 2.3 I forget. The memory handles 2.3 volts no problem, heatspreaders barely warm so don't hesitate. I'm telling you the sticks I sold you are gems.
BTW batboy I pushed 2.42v the other night with this new Mushkin 6400 but I felt it was unsafe because the heatspreaders burnt my finger.
speed bump
11-28-05, 07:26 PM
BTW ZZF has the EVGA 7800GT on sale for $300 this is for the 7800gt like 460/1100 one with a copper HS or the 445/1100 one with free COD2.
ugh. january.... don't really want to wait that long so i'll probably get a 640 now and up to one of those later on.
hey ranger, i'm not really in a position to spend money on ram right now so i'll try this stuff and see how it does.
burning fingers are usually a sufficient indicator of too much voltage :p
I already have a pair of the same OCZ RAM that I just bought from Ranger. I was able to do DDR2-720 with 3-2-2-6 using 2.2v with my first pair. Most DDR2 won't do those tight timings though. I'm hoping they will play well together and do tight timings at 4X512. We'll see.
tight timings with 4 sticks? haha good luck ;)
CoreGamer
11-29-05, 11:35 AM
I find this very interesting as I just bought that fatal1ty board and im looking for a good chip....funny how reading other threads works out :P
i guess we'll find out. 850 dollars later i have a new:
640 p4
evga 7800gt 470/1100
60gb lappy hd (my other one died couple days ago :()
2x 128 memory key (for mom)
usb hub (mom again)
cdrw/dvd combo drive (yet again.. mom)
canon a410 digicam w/1gb sd card
wewt!
yet to order.. another 512 or 1gb lappy memory, replacement case for my main rig.
any suggestions on a case? i'd prefer 120s in front and back and aluminum construction. price limit around 150-200, no brand loyalties to speak of.
CoreGamer
11-29-05, 08:32 PM
Im no expert(might wanna try the case board) But I ahve heard alot of good things from this case, and it was in a PC Gaming magazine:
Aspire X-Navigator Aluminum ATX Mid-Tower Case:
http://images.tigerdirect.com/SKUimages/medium/A107-3012-main.jpg
I like the Antec Performance I P-160WF. I have a good buddy that has a Thermaltake Tsunami VA3000BNA and he loves it. Lian Li makes good solid aluminum cases with 120mm fans.
Im no expert(might wanna try the case board) But I ahve heard alot of good things from this case, and it was in a PC Gaming magazine:
Aspire X-Navigator Aluminum ATX Mid-Tower Case:
[ img]http://images.tigerdirect.com/SKUimages/medium/A107-3012-main.jpg[/img]
interesting case but i really need 120s all around.
I like the Antec Performance I P-160WF. I have a good buddy that has a Thermaltake Tsunami VA3000BNA and he loves it. Lian Li makes good solid aluminum cases with 120mm fans.
the antec is kinda ugly :o
the tsunami is definately more my style and cheaper. might go with that one.
CoreGamer
11-29-05, 09:00 PM
interesting case but i really need 120s all around.
Well, I just found the magazine and "PC GAMER" Used this case when they built thier "dream system". It has 2 temp cables, a 500w ps and FIVE 80mm fans
5 80mm fans = jet plane taking off
2 120mm fans = about 60% the same airflow and almost silent operation
speed bump
11-30-05, 10:47 AM
tight timings with 4 sticks? haha good luck ;)
It actually works well with Intels Fugger @XS.org has done testing and it even score better than two sticks in mem intesive stuff.
tight timings with 4 sticks? haha good luck ;)
It is indeed a little more risky to O/C as high with tight timings with 4 sticks compared to 2. We all know multiple sticks of RAM are only as good as the weakest link.
But, I have ran 4 sticks of OCZ EB PC3500 in my IC7 with no sacrifice in performance. I'm hoping for similar results here since both pairs are dual channel kits and both pair have a good track record.
Besides, they only need to do DDR2-617 with 3-2-2-6 at 2v using the 3:4 ratio (232X19=4400). I'll find out tonight. I picked up the RAM from the post office this morning on the way to work.
CoreGamer
11-30-05, 03:40 PM
5 80mm fans = jet plane taking off
2 120mm fans = about 60% the same airflow and almost silent operation
Lol, but I guess your right
Hey Max, I'm now running 4X512 of this OCZ rev2 PC2-4200 at DDR2-618 with 3-2-2-6 at 2v using the 3:4 ratio. By dropping down to the 14X multiplier, I was able to do DDR2-667 with the same timings and 2.1v. Even got a screenie of DDR2-700, 3-2-2-6, 2.2v. I have not tested anything else yet. Impressive. Think I'm going to like 2GB of RAM.
ordered that tsunami case in black. gotta figure out how to open up my laptop to see what ram i need to order to help it out.
For the price, that Tsunami ain't bad. Looks pretty good too.
starrwsn
12-02-05, 11:32 AM
I would go with 640 or 650 or wait until the new chip comes out soon.
CoreGamer
12-02-05, 11:46 AM
Waiting for a new chip would be a good idea, those 641 and 551 will do alot better and they should be out around january
OutS|der
12-02-05, 01:32 PM
new chip means new motherboard right?
so price of upgradeing goes up
i didn't want to wait so i bought a 640 which just came today its a SL7Z8 China. hope its a good one. i will get a the new series when it debuts however.
outsider, in this case the 2 chips (640/641) old and new would be the same specs as far as motherboard requirements since they are of the same family. no new board this time.
BigDan3131
12-02-05, 09:31 PM
Max, you bought the Dream Case? I love mine its easy to work with and I bought mine for 69.00usd only I had to send in a rebate to get that. Where the 90-92 sits I replaced it with the extra 2 120's I have. Did you get the windowed one or regular?
i got the thermaltake tsunami. it comes with 120s.
BigDan3131
12-04-05, 03:33 PM
Its the same thing I just didnt feel like writing it all out. Stock on the side panel is a single 90-92mm fan. It gives you enough room in it to hide wires out of the way.
got the new stuff installed last night. the heatsink indeed was not level as i found there was a cap on one side of the cpu that was less than 1/16th of an inch above cpu level where the sink was situated. i reoriented and had to remove the black plastic cover for the OTES, but with the 2 fans still there and with a 120mm fan on top.. its not going to matter. the new chip is currently warming up at 3.2ghz stock til i get more time. idle its sitting at 35C, much better than previous heatsink mounting.
the 7800GT is purely amazing. i'm running world of warcraft 1280x1024 8x AA 16x AF triple buffer full effects and i still get 35-40fps which is smooth as glass. before with the 6600GT i was running at 1280x1024 with no AA and only 4x AF and it was just barely jaggy dipping as low as 18-20fps sometimes.
I must say i'm impressed with the thermaltake tsunami dream case. thanks for the suggestion. with the 2 120s i'm getting good airflow and its still quiet.
hopefully i can get a chance to spin up the gerbil and see what this p4 will do. i'm currently packing and getting ready for a week long trip so we'll see.
Ach3r0n
12-07-05, 02:23 AM
Im no expert(might wanna try the case board) But I ahve heard alot of good things from this case, and it was in a PC Gaming magazine:
Aspire X-Navigator Aluminum ATX Mid-Tower Case:
http://images.tigerdirect.com/SKUimages/medium/A107-3012-main.jpg
From experience I can tell you that Aspire cases offer looks and little else. When I read the reviews for my Aspire case, everything looked well laid out and thought out. When I got it though, I could immediately see the problems. There was an intake fan that was mostly blocked by the front cover. All fan cutouts were 80mm. The temp display lasted about 2 weeks before the light went out and another week and the display went out entirely. The front panel is near impossible to get off my case also. Takes a flathead for prying a ton of patience. USB, firewire, etc are located on the bottom of the case - didn't realize what a pain in the a** that would be. The case appeared roomy inside and the reviews said such also, but in actuality, everything is very difficult to access. Now my case is different than that one, but my case was featured in a "dream PC" setup also and all the reviews gave it 4.5/5, 9/10, etc. Testing a case for a review and real-life usage can turn out to be very different animals. ;)
the antec is kinda ugly :o
the tsunami is definately more my style and cheaper. might go with that one.
I went with the TT Armor Super. I haven't set it up yet but the case is definitely well thought out and well made. So far my only complaint is the front flaps are 'squeaky' - some WD40 would probably solve the problem though. I would definitely recommend most of the current series of TT cases. :)
got the new stuff installed last night. the heatsink indeed was not level as i found there was a cap on one side of the cpu that was less than 1/16th of an inch above cpu level where the sink was situated. i reoriented and had to remove the black plastic cover for the OTES, but with the 2 fans still there and with a 120mm fan on top.. its not going to matter. the new chip is currently warming up at 3.2ghz stock til i get more time. idle its sitting at 35C, much better than previous heatsink mounting.
the 7800GT is purely amazing. i'm running world of warcraft 1280x1024 8x AA 16x AF triple buffer full effects and i still get 35-40fps which is smooth as glass. before with the 6600GT i was running at 1280x1024 with no AA and only 4x AF and it was just barely jaggy dipping as low as 18-20fps sometimes.
I must say i'm impressed with the thermaltake tsunami dream case. thanks for the suggestion. with the 2 120s i'm getting good airflow and its still quiet.
hopefully i can get a chance to spin up the gerbil and see what this p4 will do. i'm currently packing and getting ready for a week long trip so we'll see.
I have the same stepping 640 sat on my desk, any chance you could post what you're able to get out of it, as i only used mine on a stock heatsink.
sure webzta, i might have some time tonight to mess with it tonight.
ok mate any results appreciated, I have a XP90-C sat on my desk, with fan But no mounts for 775 yet.. I'm actually having to run my 660 heavily underclocked to run the stock heatsinkfan in silence.. I think the china ones are in the top end of the 640 chips.
sorry webzta, ran out of time and i'm on my trip now, but i'll work on it when i return next week. :)
xTrEmEoVrClOcKr
12-11-05, 11:16 AM
I want to see how far your 640 goes.
sorry webzta, ran out of time and i'm on my trip now, but i'll work on it when i return next week. :)
No worries mate time whenever you get time - have a nice trip :)
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