Rad questions??

Dak9767 · Nov 29, 2005

First off I'm new to this site and watercooing. The site has been very informative. Now my question. What rad would be the best to use the BIX2, BIX2 - x flow, or the Thermochill HE120.2? Also what is the difference is between the two BIX2 rads? Thanks for any advice.

Janus67 · Nov 29, 2005

From what I understand, the xflow is a single pass, and the 'regular' is dual pass. The dual pass has more restriction and therefore should cool the water a bit better since it will be in there for a longer period of time. The xflows I am guessing would be better off in a smaller system, or maybe working in parallel.

This is of course all basic observations, and feel free to take those with a grain of salt.

5|*42 · Nov 29, 2005

What are you cooling? Also what pump you have may effect this some.

CWynn · Nov 29, 2005

Out of all of those, I'd personally pick the thermochill rad. I always have used heatercores in my systems, and I have a dual HC going into my next system. Something to think about if you like DIY kinda stuff.

Dak9767 · Nov 29, 2005

I'll be cooling my cpu with a TDX block and my 2 6600GT's with Maze 4 blocks, also I'll be using a Danger Den D5 pump. Also if there is a better rad out there then the one's I've picked please let me know.

nikhsub1 · Nov 29, 2005

Id go for the PA series Thermochill or the BIP, NOT the BIX. The BIX series really needs powerful fans to have any benefit as the BIX's are quite thick. The BIP's are thinner and work much better with less powerful (quieter) fans. Ditto for the PA series Thermochill's.

Pirate_Freder · Nov 29, 2005

i would go with heater cores. i'm building a new system right now and i am going to be ordering a couple of the danger den heater cores and shrouds and putting the 1200mm evercools(80cfm/35db) on them.

EDIT- they are a bit trickier to mount but not realy a big deal. and feel free to pm me if you need help with anything else on this, i have been doing tons of research for a while now for my new system and have a bit of experience so

Dak9767 · Nov 29, 2005

So if I were to use 2 120mm silenx fans (64cfm) or 4 in a push/pull combo would they work on the BIX2 or a heater core? If not I'll go with the BIP3. Sorry for all the questions just want to get it right the first time without have to keep buying parts to get it right. I'm looking for a quiet to semi-quiet pc with good perfomance.

nikhsub1 · Nov 29, 2005

With those fans the BIP will perform better than the bix or the HC.

[O-CuK]Marci · Nov 30, 2005

And the PA will perform better than the BIP

GearShift3r · Nov 30, 2005

The Black Ice Xtreme series is designed with a double-pass system, hence why the radiators are substantially thicker which requires higher CFM fans, but you can handle more heat. The Thermochill and Black Ice Pro series are single pass and far thinner than that of the BIX series which doesn't require such powerful fans to be effecient.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

-GearShift3r

[O-CuK]Marci · Nov 30, 2005

BI Pro, BIX, ThermoChill HE & ThermoChill PA120 series are dual pass.

BIPro is single row. BIX, Thermochill HE and PA120series are dual row.

BIPro X-Flow, BIX X-Flow, ThermoChill PA160 are single pass
BIPro X-Flow is single pass single row
BIX X-Flow is single pass dual row
PA160 is single pass single row

PA120 will still outperform the thinnest BI rad with the same fannage. Thickness isn't quite the issue. Fin and row density is.

ALL Thermochill rads are thicker than the thickest BI rad.

Number of rows defines thickness, not number of passes.

FIZZ3 · Nov 30, 2005

Janus67 said:
From what I understand, the xflow is a single pass, and the 'regular' is dual pass. The dual pass has more restriction and therefore should cool the water a bit better since it will be in there for a longer period of time. The xflows I am guessing would be better off in a smaller system, or maybe working in parallel.

If a rad has more restriction it will NOT cool the water better. Think about it: There isn't any moment in a watercooling loop in which there is no water in the radiator, so there is no issue of 'time spent in rad'. It is always full, and hence more flow = better cooling.

[O-CuK]Marci · Nov 30, 2005

If a rad has more restriction it will NOT cool the water better. Think about it: There isn't any moment in a watercooling loop in which there is no water in the radiator, so there is no issue of 'time spent in rad'. It is always full, and hence more flow = better cooling.

Not quite, the time issue is correct (ie: that time spent in rad is completely irrelevant), but more restrictive can beat less restrictive for other reasons - we all know dualpass is more restrictive than singlepass for instance, but in which case how could a dualpass rad beat a single pass rad if all other variables the same (ie: BIP vs BIP X-Flow - BIP generally wins over X-Fow variant)? Answer - Dualpass = more flow turbulence. Turbulent flow tends to mean more for cooling performance than laminar flow... because singlepass loses out on flow turbulence, it requires higher flowrates to match an equiv dualpass at lower flowrates... see http://www.over-clock.com/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=21

There is no clear cut "singlepass is always better than dualpass" way of looking at it etc.

Where single pass falls down though is the tubing velocity. Because the water is presented to all the tubes at once, the water velocity through the tubes is half of what it is through a dual-pass radiator. Increased water-velocity increases water turbulence, which in turn increases the ability of the water to pass the heat that's stored within it into the metal walls of the tubes that its flowing through.

If you now suddenly halve the water velocity by making a dual-pass radiator into a single pass radiator, you will lose the heat transfer benefit being provided by the higher water velocity through the tubes.

Perseus · Nov 30, 2005

nikhsub1 said:
Id go for the PA series Thermochill or the BIP, NOT the BIX. The BIX series really needs powerful fans to have any benefit as the BIX's are quite thick. The BIP's are thinner and work much better with less powerful (quieter) fans. Ditto for the PA series Thermochill's.

The BIX isn't only thick, it's dense as well. If you look down through it, at a slight angle you can't see any light. And yeah, the BIX requires a powerful fan(s) to function well, but under that circumstance it REALLY performs.

[O-CuK]Marci · Nov 30, 2005

However ThermoChill HE is more dense, thus beats the BIX with appropriate fans...

With high powered fans that can penetrate such denseness, the dense rads tend to win... and the more dense they are, the more heat they tend to be able to remove, providing the fans are up to the task... but then you have the noise factor. The fans typically associated with these rads for BEST performance are high airflow v. noisy fans. (Typically in excess of 130cfm)

The denser the rad, the more powerful the fan needed... so if noise is an issue, avoid dense rads entirely.... go for PA series, MCR120QP or BIP variant.

We already know MCR120QP beats BIP, and we also know that PA120.1 beats MCR120QP... so it becomes a matter of what you can afford. Ultimate best performance comes at a price... if you don't wanna pay that price, I recommend the Swiftech MCR x20 QP range of rads

NextGen rads predominantly came into existence because more and more users are running away from noise...

Les56 · Nov 30, 2005

[O-CuK]Marci said:
....., and we also know that PA120.1 beats MCR120QP ...

You have data to show this?
It may well, but I have seen no evidence.
Have not modelled either, have no specifications/dimensions.

[O-CuK]Marci · Nov 30, 2005

Not public data yet (not releasing dribs n drabs of testing - awaiting complete testing data then will present all at once)... but yes... (not done by me)

FIZZ3 · Nov 30, 2005

[O-CuK]Marci said:
Not quite, the time issue is correct (ie: that time spent in rad is completely irrelevant), but more restrictive can beat less restrictive for other reasons - we all know dualpass is more restrictive than singlepass for instance, but in which case how could a dualpass rad beat a single pass rad if all other variables the same (ie: BIP vs BIP X-Flow - BIP generally wins over X-Fow variant)? Answer - Dualpass = more flow turbulence. Turbulent flow tends to mean more for cooling performance than laminar flow... because singlepass loses out on flow turbulence, it requires higher flowrates to match an equiv dualpass at lower flowrates... see http://www.over-clock.com/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=21

There is no clear cut "singlepass is always better than dualpass" way of looking at it etc.

Fair enough, flowrate isn't the only determinant of performance, even turbulence can have an effect... point taken. I just felt that the erroneous time story shouldn't be taken as truth.

[O-CuK]Marci · Nov 30, 2005

Indeed... as time goes by, more myths of watercooling are revealed... we're all here to learn and pass on what we've learned

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