Please help selecting CPU, etc.

[Ach3r0n]

Well after perusing the forums for a bit, I am now convinced this is not like that other forum where you can't get an answer regarding anything Intel w/o some big debate. Great! :)

Anyway, I've been looking at various chips for a new setup and unfortunately I can't really wait more than a week to order my parts so it looks like I won't be able to even check out the 9xx Intell CPUs.

Here's some info so I can get some better advice:

- Case: http://www.thermaltake.com/xaserCase/armor/va8000bws/va8000bws.htm

- HS: I don't have one yet but I'm most likely going for the XP90 or XP120. For reasons of weight, I was looking at the aluminum XP90 as all the reviews show it as only adding 2-3 degrees max over the copper solution.

- PSU: Looking at a few Enermax PSUs in the 550W+ range. In all honesty though, I've never setup a PSU with multiple 12v so could use a little advice on those if possible vs. the single 12v.

I'll be running 2-3 SATA HDDs (200GB+ each), 2 DVD burners, 2GB RAM (not purchased yet unless I use my old DDR 333?), an Audigy 2 Platinum and a low-end video card (yet to be purchased). atm the case has 3 fans. No plans to increase that unless I really need to.


I don't do any gaming aside form the occasional strategy game. Mainly I'm looking to build a multimedia PC (as you could probably tell from some of the components). I'll be doing a lot of encoding using AutoGK and CCE. Compression and multi-tasking are crucial also. I'd like to be able to encode something w/o having my PC virtually useless while doing so. Stability is a must also of course - but to me stable isn't simply being able to run the PC at full load w/o it crashing. I want to be able to keep it going for a week or more. :) OS can really be anything Windows (2K, XP, 2K3) - I'm willing to switch over. However, I am not willing to sacrifice use of some of my old apps which are definitely not multi-thread/core friendly. :x

My budget for the CPU is around ~$300.

OK, now for some of my dilemma here. The AMD X2 seems to carry with a lot of problems in regards to affinity. I'm really not willing to set affinity every time I open an app. Is this simply a dual-core issue or an AMD issue?

Considering that I will sticking with a lot of my old apps for some time, is it worth getting a dual-core over an HT CPU? The price differences are negligible to me.

The heat issues also cause me a lot of concern. At the moment I'm running a 2.8GHz P4 Northwood and although my aftermarket HS isn't the best, the thing already runs way to hot at load for my tastes (60C and climbing - then I shut it down). Seems 60C might be cool compared to some of the temps on the PD 830s and the faster single-core Intels. Anyway, I don't plan on OC'ing the CPU much .. perhaps just a little. ;)

Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. Any more info needed, just ask. :)

[3DFlyer]

Hi DsN! :welcome: to OC Forums!

You are correct in your findings about this forum. OCF is a place where nice folks come to converse about all things computers, and is geared toward overclocking. :)

If you're gonna run Intel, I would suggest going with a strong single rail PSU over a dual rail. Enermax PSU's are ok, but their QC has suffered some as of late, and some of the models don't live up to their specs.

I would suggest a good OCZ520, Fortron, or PC Power and cooling unit. In that order pretty much.

The OCZ520 will give you the best specs for the best price, and is a quality unit. The Fortron is a bit cheaper, but less efficient. The PC P&C is a very high quality unit, but is highly overpriced.

For an Intel based system, you cannot beat the OCZ520. It is a great unit, with very good protection circuitry, and is as powerful as they come.

XP120 would be the best choice for Air cooling.

If you are building a multimedia machine, you definitely want to hold out for the release of the new 9xx dual core Pressler CPU's. They will be released in January sometime. There is a chance they could be released by late December, but I doubt it.

I wouldn't worry about the AMD X2. it is dated technology, and is overpriced. It is also well outside your 300 dollar CPU budget. Those are geared for gaming and benching...not multimedia, so they wouldn't be the best choice for your needs. Also you want stability, and that means an Intel chipset, so that pretty much puts the AMD out of the picture, because they don't make Intel chipsets for AMD systems.

You need not worry about heat issues with the new 9xx series CPU's. They will be 65nm CPU's and they will also run on lower core voltages than any CPU has run on before. They will run cooler, and will OC higher on stock voltages than any CPU before as already shown through testing.

If you don't wait, the 8xx CPU's would be the choice, but you'll pay for it in heat. For the system you are needing I would not buy a system until that 9xx CPU comes out. It is THE perfect CPU for your needs.

[larva]

It all boils down to noise. I'd get an 830 for that application if I was not terribly noise-sensitive. The resultant heat at full CPU load with two complete 3GHz prescott cores is substantial. If you run it as Intel intended at 3GHz, the issue isn't that big a deal, but if you OC the thing much it is a big deal.

And if you really expect to use the machine while it's encoding, true SMP vs HT is indeed a big deal. I can't stand to use a machine while it's encoding regardless, but a dual core will do it better. More importantly most of the programs that take good advantage of SMP are encoding/mulitimedia applications. Things will render/encode/compress faster if the software is good.

Honestly the Athlon X2 3800 is a much better dual core cpu. Power draw and heat production are vastly lesser than any prescott's. That being said, Intel chipsets are still much more refined than any other's, and fortunately the P4's primary performance advantage comes in the area of encoding. So if you can stand the noise of the fan it takes to cool it, by all means, the 830 (and don't skimp on the heatsink, go TR SI-120, Scythe Ninja, or TT Big Typhoon). The XP90C is a really good heatsink too, but 92mm fans aren't when compared to 120mm ones in a low-noise scenario.

Dual line supplies will drive this rig. Antec SP2-500, TPII-480/550, Fortron AX-500A, or best of all, the Seasonic S12-600. You could also use an OCZ 520/Sparkle 550/PCP&C510-style unit, but they aren't at all required unless you get really serious about the OC-- and none of them offer the efficiency and noise floor of something like the Seasonic.

[3DFlyer]

Here is some info on the pressler 9xx series CPU...

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=428173

There is also alot of info in this forum. You can find it by clicking "search this forum" on the upper right of this forum page, and entering Pressler in the search engine. You'll get lots of info, and there's lots of links to tests that have been done in those threads. I think you will find it quite interesting.

BTW, clocks of 4.5GHz on stock volts have been achieved with that CPU in the engineering sample versions. The release versions will be better, because they are always refined, and held to tighter standards than a experimental/engineering/review chip.

[Ach3r0n]

Thanks for the quick reply 3DFlyer.

I had noticed that some of the Enermax PSUs were getting nasty reviews lately. When choosing my selections, I avoided the ones that seemed to have QC problems. After looking at the OCZ reviews though, I think you may have sold me on those. :) Most of them seem to come in the dual 12v flavor though also.

I'd really like to hold out for the 9xx Intels but considering the stability issues I'm having at the moment, not sure I can hold out for the CPU + a decent selection of mobos to match. To put even more pressure on me, I have someone interested in buying my 2.8GHz box (though I will have to replace some things for them to stabilize this) but they have a deadline of Xmas. I'd hate to pass up the opportunity to have a new system partially paid by the sale of my old one.

I did look at the NVIDIA chipsets vs. the Intel 955 chipset and the performance seems pretty close. I don't really put a lot of faith in NVIDA's stability or compatibility after past experiences I've had with them so an Intel chipset was definitely where I was headed. :)

Again, I really appreciate that this forum seems a lot more level-headed and mature. :)

[3DFlyer]

Thanks for the quick reply 3DFlyer.

I had noticed that some of the Enermax PSUs were getting nasty reviews lately. When choosing my selections, I avoided the ones that seemed to have QC problems. After looking at the OCZ reviews though, I think you may have sold me on those. :) Most of them seem to come in the dual 12v flavor though also.

I'd really like to hold out for the 9xx Intel's but considering the stability issues I'm having at the moment, not sure I can hold out for the CPU + a decent selection of mobos to match. To put even more pressure on me, I have someone interested in buying my 2.8GHz box (though I will have to replace some things for them to stabilize this) but they have a deadline of Xmas. I'd hate to pass up the opportunity to have a new system partially paid by the sale of my old one.

I did look at the NVIDIA chipsets vs. the Intel 955 chipset and the performance seems pretty close. I don't really put a lot of faith in NVIDA's stability or compatibility after past experiences I've had with them so an Intel chipset was definitely where I was headed. :)

Again, I really appreciate that this forum seems a lot more level-headed and mature. :)

DsN,
If you go with OCZ, avoid the dual rail units. With Intel, it is always better to go with a single strong rail. Intel's like amps. The OCZ520ADJ SLi has a single strong 33 amp 12+ rail. I have that unit, and recommend it highly. I have tested it and done stupid tests with it. I've tried to load it down with programs that bring most PSU's to their knees, and it won't phase that unit. You can get it for about 100 dollars after the 30 dollar rebate.

On the nf4 chipsets...

Oh boy...here we go again. I'm gonna forewarn you on this one...it might get rough, but I sure hope it doesn't. In case it does though, just pay particular attention to what actual Intel users tell you. nf4 boards are total junk, and if you want to OC it at all, you definitely want an Intel chipset. From a stability standpoint you cannot beat an Intel chipset. Nobody knows a CPU better than the people who make it, and when you go with a Intel chipset, you know your are getting the best compatibility between the chipset and the CPU. In fact, it's one of the main reasons I use Intel.

If you go with the 8xx over the 9xx you might wanna go with water. They do get hot, and you have to control it. I would not even consider stock cooling on one. Do you have any other system at all...even a laptop that can get you by until January? I'm very impressed by those new Presslers, and doggone it would be perfect for what you want it for. You might even want to buy a system that you can upgrade the CPU to the Pressler when it comes out, and resell the 8xx if you absolutely must upgrade now.

I've read the tests, and the one's from Anandtech were very detailed. Anandtech is a trusted source, and nearly every time I've read something on there it's turned out to be correct. They tested ES chips loaned to them by Intel for evaluation, and that's where the 4.5GHz OC on stock voltage came from.

It will definitely be a better CPU as far as cooling, and OC'ability.

[Ach3r0n]

9xx sound very promising but indeed, I don't think I can hold out long enough.

The idea of buying an 830 now (and then perhaps selling it off in a few months) seems like a viable option as from my reading, the Intel 955X mobos should be compatible with the new Intel CPUs - so I would only need to swap out the CPU and not get a whole new rig. (975X sounds even better but as usual my timing sucks)

I was hoping not to get into the whole H2O cooling thing but if I were to do so, anything you can recommend with some nice cooling w/o breaking the bank?

Oh btw .. no one made mention of the affinity issues. Are these something I should be concerned about with any dual-core CPU or do the serious problems only apply to the AMDs? (any of the AMD guys watching, restrain yourself please - I'm just asking a legit question).

[3DFlyer]

For air, an XP 120 with a good strong fan will probably do the trick, but it might limit your OC's a little. it will also be a little loud when you load the CPU, but you can turn the fan down with a fan control when it's not loaded. Since you said you didn't want to go too high that might be the best route.

If you want to go fairly high on the OC, or into max OC's, then water or phase will get you there. Phase will run about 1000 bucks by the time you buy the unit, and get some needed to equipment to monitor it, and maintain it.

Water can be had for 250-300, but 250 is the least I'd spend on it. You want good components with water. If you get the cheap stuff, you're temps will more than likely go up instead of down, and some of the cheaper stuff actually uses cheap plastics that can craze and break, and leakage/breakage with water...well, I'm pretty sure you know what that means.

The Swiftech's kit is a good kit if you're looking to get into it. it comes with a good Maze 4 acetal block (actually the best block out there right now), a good pump, and pretty decent radiator and fans. The tubing could be better, and the fans could be a little stronger, but it's really a decent setup.

With water you don't want to take chances. I've seen pictures where clear plastic water block housings have cracked and the result was hardware destruction.

On the water block, you want a good high quality Acetal or Delrin housing, and a copper block. You also want the res of the system to have the same metals. No mixing Aluminum, brass, steel (god forbid you'd find any steel out there!), copper and all that. It will cause electrolysis and is destructive to the water loop.

The learning curve for water is a little steep, but it's nothing too terribly hard. Just takes some study in the water cooling forum here and on other forums.

I will say it again to emphasize...it pays to get good quality parts with water. 200 is about the absolute minimum I would pay for a water loop. Any less, and I would go air.

The phase I was talking about is extreme sub zero cooling, and the learning curve on it is steeper yet. It is expensive...very expensive, but like anything else, it will give the best performance. It's not for everybody though, so if you contemplate it, be sure to read up on it thoroughly...like for at least a month, and then some maybe.

The devil is in the details with water and phase. If you are meticulous with the setup and rigging, and choose good stuff it works well, but if you don't it can perform very poorly, and can even cause damage and/or destruction.

On the affinity issues, I have never see an issue with that here on this forum. I won't say it doesn't exist, but I've never seen it, and I do alot of reading here, and on other forums. I would be willing to bet it's an AMD only issue. Intel is not the sort of company that would release something that you had to manually set every time it needed to be used. That would be like having to configure your e-mail account every time you wanted to check your e-mail! LOL

[Ach3r0n]

Hi 3DFlyer,

Thanks again for your input. Over the last 2 years I've done a little reading on H2O and phase change but never really did a lot of research on either. Phase change I know is out of my price range though - the wife would kick my a**. ;) Water cooling is a possibility and I absolutely understand the importance of quality parts. I even looked at that non-conductive coolant they were selling a while back but it was insanely expensive compared to the traditional coolants. From my perspective (based on my reading in the past), a quality system is unlikely to leak if properly care for and maintained.

I can change from my XP-90 choice to the XP-120. :) I've seen flip-flop results between the 2 in reviews but already you and larva recommended the 120 so I'm willing to go with that ... plus the 120mm vs. the 92mm on the XP-90.

In regards to the affinity issue, I hadn't seen any Intel users reporting that problem either - here or anywhere else. That's why I asked really. I thought maybe I missed it. lol @ the email comment btw :D

This definitely won't be the end of my questions I'm sure but I'm sold on the 830 vs. any other chip available right now. I'll definitely be looking at the 9xx when they become available though. I've read up on the specs of the chip now and the accompanying chipset due out and I can certainly see the potential. I'm also happy to see the 930 will go for nearly the same price as the 830. :)

[Ach3r0n]

Not saying that I need 600W but the OCZ does seem to carry enough on the +12V2 - it's rated at 18A (with the +12V1 @ 20A), which should be plenty for the 830 under load, which I believe uses 11-12A typically. I haven't spec'd out what I would need in terms of power yet, just exploring the options atm and keeping some planned upgrades/additions in mind. :) I do wish they would have kept everything to just 1 12V though - makes things easier.

[3DFlyer]

Hi DsN,
18amps may sound like alot, but it's not anymore. It really takes 30 IF you want to OC and want the rails to be stable. 18 amps would probably be OK for a stock system, but the thing about it is, the OCZ520 is cheaper, it's stronger, and doesn't exibit the cross-loading isues that the 600 does.

Both are good units, but the 520 is better. Most people don't run into cross loading issues, but I don't like that issue being there. The OCZ520 doesn't have it. I highly recommend going with the 520 over the 600 for an Intel Rig. if you get into the more serious OC'ing, you'll be glad you did. The 520 is actually stronger than the 600. Actually I think they shgould've switched the ratings on those two units...seriously.

On the water, ther's all kinds of tricks I've picked up from the forums. Things like "Keep the fill line or resevoir high to keep air out of the system", "always leak check the system prior to running", and all kinds of other things. Obviously, those two things are basic stuff, but there are lots of little tricks. Shrouding the fans, and sealing them to force air through the rad is another one.

It's just like with air. If you get a good HSF, and you put it on there right with good AS TIM, and get the right amount, and use the right fan, it cools very well, but put a cheap one on there with a gob of TIM, and a low CFM fan, and it'll be burning up. hehe There's alot more tricks with water that'll shave off a degree here and a degree there, but starting off with good quality parts is the main thing. You can't make a low quality system run cool no matter how hard you try, and moe than likely, it will probably break or craze, or crack...water and electricity don't get along real well. ;)

[CoreGamer]

Pressler is on the 27th of december....you should try and wait

[Ach3r0n]

Pressler is on the 27th of december....you should try and wait


Last I read it was the middle of January. Bumped to Dec. 27 now? That might be doable for me if that's true.