Restricted apogee vs. Storm

FooTemps · Dec 8, 2005

Right now I'm running an mATX system with:

A64 x2 4400
7800GTX
OCZ modstream 400watt

With the upcoming winter break I'll finally have time to finish modding and install a watercooling setup. The problem is that my case is an SG01 and there is a clearance issue with a block as tall as the SG01. I'd either have to cut down the barbs or modify the psu casing to have more clearance for hoses. I'm thinking that if it's possible to fit 90 degree fittings to an apogee I could still get decent cooling without clearance issues.

I figure the restriction would be about the same if I had a restricted apogee or storm. I'd like to see someone else's opinion on this.

clocker2 · Dec 8, 2005

FooTemps said:
if it's possible to fit 90 degree fittings to an apogee

I'm not sure that either block has enough spacing between the barb mounts to allow two 90 degree fittings to be screwed in.
One, certainly- two, doubtful.

FooTemps · Dec 8, 2005

clocker2 said:
I'm not sure that either block has enough spacing between the barb mounts to allow two 90 degree fittings to be screwed in.
One, certainly- two, doubtful.

I was also thinking that. But if I was lucky enough to find the right barbs or a spacer I could get them both on. I was looking around mcmaster carr and there might be a chance they have something I need. Need to snoop around a bit more.

Also, what kind of tubing is the opaque black tubing that a few users used in their WC systems? It's some tygon variant right?

clocker2 · Dec 8, 2005

FooTemps said:
Also, what kind of tubing is the opaque black tubing that a few users used in their WC systems? It's some tygon variant right?

Seems like a few months ago someone found black Tygon but I haven't any idea where.
Many of the small bore crowd use a black tubing called "Pur".
IIRC, that's the same stuff that has been used in Europe for years as a substitute for hard-line (copper) plumbing and also in radiant heat floor systems, so it must be pretty durable.

seamadan000 · Dec 8, 2005

I have seen some 90 degree barbs that have bases that turn independently of the barb, those would probably work. I think I saw some at home depot.

FooTemps · Dec 8, 2005

seamadan000 said:
I have seen some 90 degree barbs that have bases that turn independently of the barb, those would probably work. I think I saw some at home depot.

I was looking around for 90 degree swivel joint fittings with npsm threads but I've got no luck so far. mcmaster carr has swivel joints in npt but I was hoping to find something with better sealing.

But the deal with fittings isn't the main point. What I want to know is if you guys think the flow rate will be about the same...

Apogee = higher flow
Storm = more restrictive

Apogee + restriction = ~Storm in terms of flow?

Keep in mind that I want to run a gpu block and I'm most likely using a BIP2 or BIX2 depending on how big of fans I can fit. (The rad will be mounted outside and the fans will pull outside air through it, the bigger the fans, the more pci slots covered.)

billb · Dec 8, 2005

FooTemps said:
I'd like to see someone else's opinion on this.

Well, any restriction wil reduce cooling...less is better! But if you HAVE TO use 90 degree barbs then you have to. Check omega.com (search fittings there).

bryan_d · Dec 8, 2005

FooTemps said:
I figure the restriction would be about the same if I had a restricted apogee or storm. I'd like to see someone else's opinion on this.

Hello,

Your project is very interesting. I would suggest giving MassiveOverKill a Private message for some advice on the project.

He has made a mATX WC project too:
MassiveOverKill's mATX WC Project

Good luck to you,
Bryan D.

FooTemps · Dec 9, 2005

billb said:
Well, any restriction wil reduce cooling...less is better! But if you HAVE TO use 90 degree barbs then you have to. Check omega.com (search fittings there).

Well of course restriction will redule cooling on a high flow block. I'm already well aware of this issue. What I'm looking to see is if it will restrict too much. Because if an apogee with 90 degree barbs restricts more than a storm, I may as well just get a storm and modify my psu to have 80mm fans.

I doubt anyone has done any flow testing on the blocks like that though.

thorilan · Dec 10, 2005

Apogee + restriction = ~Storm in terms of flow

no

you are compairing asperigus to mango here

FooTemps · Dec 10, 2005

thorilan said:
no

you are compairing asperigus to mango here

lol, very true. But any numbers to prove their flow rates different? If the apogee sucks the big one after getting two 90 degree barbs, I'm opting for a modified psu and using the storm. I don't want to rip myself off on buying a far inferior waterblock for convinience sake, if it's worth it to make the storm work, then I'll get the storm. If the apogee still get better flow, then I'll just go for whats easier to set up. (I really don't mind higher temps since I'm already running an SFF, what matters is that I can get a stable, decent overclock. If I can get a stable overclock with the restricted apogee then that's what I'll buy.)

/I always liked mango more than asperigus anyway.

FooTemps · Dec 11, 2005

unrelated question to the situation...

will arranging the wc system res > pump > cpu > rad > gpu > res affect cooling in any way? (This is the easiest way to route the tubing without cutting up too many things and uses the second least amount of tubing.)

FooTemps · Dec 13, 2005

anyone?

also, new idea...

I've been looking into single pass rads for my system. (it makes routing the tubes easier) The guys over at procooling say that the hwlabs x-flow is overhyped and the numbers on it are too good to be true. But even though it has that rep, I may look into it. Are there any good single pass heater cores that aren't too thick?

clocker2 · Dec 13, 2005

FooTemps said:
I've been looking into single pass rads for my system. (it makes routing the tubes easier)
Then I would definitely use it.
The guys over at procooling say that the hwlabs x-flow is overhyped and the numbers on it are too good to be true.
They're arguing over the claimed superiority over dualpass rads, not that the single pass is any worse, aren't they?
But even though it has that rep, I may look into it. Are there any good single pass heater cores that aren't too thick?

Seems to me that most heatercores are relatively thick...certainly fatter than the Thermochills would be.
I'd just find the rad that best fit your circumstances and go with, even if a small percentage of performance might be lost. The contortions you might have perform in order to fit "the best" rad wouldn't be justified by the marginal performance boost.

Albigger · Dec 14, 2005

If you're just looking for a decent, stable overclock and going to keep the IHS on the cpu then just get the 90deg barbs and apogee and save some cash and modding.

I doubt you will see that much real world difference. If you haven't noticed the C/W graphs for the apogee are flatter than for the storm (going by Swiftechs graphs here) which mean that the storm is a lot more dependent on flow rate for its cooling efficiency. (This makes sense, given the respective designs of each block).

So what I'm trying to say is, no matter which block you get you should be happy. BUT, if you get the apogee I don't think it would hurt it that much to put 90deg barbs on it, HOWEVER, it WILL hurt the storm more if you put 90deg barbs on it.

Restricted apogee vs. Storm

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