Technicians: Illegal to Install *ware/Virus Removers?

[jcw122]

I'm considering doing a small time job for people (one that is similar to babysitting or mowing a neighbor's lawn...just locals and cash type of hting), not anything like making my own company, but doing something where I do a service for people that includes removing spyware, viruses, malware, etc for people, mostly locals. Someone suggested to me that it is ILLEGAL to install programs to remove such things for someone else as a technician (?) , unless you have proper certification. As this is obviously a possible problem, I'd like to know if it's true. Thanks!

[Xoligy]

Well i dont know if thats actually true but i kinda see where there coming from it's like you buying one license for a program and using it on multiple computers you would need a business edition/extended liceses edition etc, etc but im not 100% sure!

The way that i can see you kind of slipping through a loop hole would be using a laptop and making a tempory network and not actually installing anything but running it through the network if you get my meaning.

Best thing to do is wait for more answers, search google and ask people in the same kind of industry. But also ask yourself this... "How many other people so this?" ALOT! Just be careful and best thing to do is before using a product on another persons computer is not just to ask for permission off the owner of the machine but get some sort of written permission off them and also the makers of the program to cover you back ;)

[jcw122]

Well i dont know if thats actually true but i kinda see where there coming from it's like you buying one license for a program and using it on multiple computers you would need a business edition/extended liceses edition etc, etc but im not 100% sure!

The way that i can see you kind of slipping through a loop hole would be using a laptop and making a tempory network and not actually installing anything but running it through the network if you get my meaning.

Best thing to do is wait for more answers, search google and ask people in the same kind of industry. But also ask yourself this... "How many other people so this?" ALOT! Just be careful and best thing to do is before using a product on another persons computer is not just to ask for permission off the owner of the machine but get some sort of written permission off them and also the makers of the program to cover you back ;)
Thanks for the advice there Xoligy, and yeah, now I wonder if this friend of mine was talking about using the program over and over, cause I was thinking of using Free removers til I get some $$$.

[Xoligy]

No problem if your going to do it do as i say get permission in writing it always helps and emails from the makers of the program so if something did go wrong or someone said you carn't do that you can easily back yourself up saying i have the permission to etc, etc but i carn't see a problem personally apart from maybe if somone said "how can you charge me when yur using "Free" software" lol

Make a list of the programs you plan on using, contact the companies of the programs and tell them what you would like to do and be cheeky and see if they will offer a discount if you provide evidence that your doing as you say or see if they would be willing to make one with a set amount of uses and provide something in writing saying you have permison sorry for repeating myself again :rolleyes: i need sleep!

Edit: going for a nap but i'll keep my eye on the thread see what other info comes up :)

[tenchi86]

It is not illegal to modify someones computer data as long as they give you confirmed persmission first I believe. (Like get them to sign something) The problem I see for you is charging. You would need a small busniess liscense I think if you were to charge. I am sure you could easily do it under the table as I am sure a lot of us here have done. Though to be perfectly legal I think you need a liscence.

Edit: As for the utilities though the companies may not enjoy it, you would be using them for home use. So I think you would be ok there, I mean it's not like you will be doing hundreds of computers with Ad-ware free will you?

[-maddog-]

I think no problems if you just do it for your friends, but once you get bigger you may get into trouble.

[ghettocomp]

If you are installing the free Adware/spyware removal programs I am sure it is not \
illegal.. as long as it is installed with the customers name and permission. Then you
are not actually doing anything other than installing software FOR the customer to
provide a service they didnt want to do themselves or didnt know how to do..

The idea is 'Provide a service'

[jcw122]

Well I did find something out guys, this may be partially true.
The trick: the EULA...most EULAs are for SINGLE users only, not multiple users...because if I DLed and installed the software...I'd be the one agreeing to the EULA, and the customer would be the "2nd end user"...which is not legal to do.

There was some guy who did this a few years back, w/ 30 some programs...and when the 2nd end user (customer) called up ZA for tech support, he got sued by ZA.

I guess what I will be doing is e-mailing the companies, or writing.

[Know Nuttin]

It shouldn't be legal, because you are making money off of it. If you did it for free, then it wouldn't be a problem. The key words here are for "personal use", which means it's free as long as you don't charge for what you intend to use it for. You would need a business version and a license for it.

[jcw122]

It shouldn't be legal, because you are making money off of it. If you did it for free, then it wouldn't be a problem. The key words here are for "personal use", which means it's free as long as you don't charge for what you intend to use it for. You would need a business version and a license for it.

Mmm now I get it, thanks for that clarification Know Nuttin.

This will be a job similar to mowing a neighbor's lawn, or babysitting, it's just plain cash, so I wonder if that still counts (prolly does).

[su root]

For permission to install programs:
If you have the user's permission, you can install any program they agree to, or do anything to their computer that they agree to.

For installing specific applications:
Check the EULA, if it says for personal use only, that limits businesses from using it -- that doesn't stop a consultant from downloading it and installing it onto a home user for their personal use only. If it says you can't distribute it, then each place you install it, download it from the website directly. If it's for single use only, it usually means that only one person is allowed to use the software at the same time.. if it's free software, this is almost meaningless, if it's purchased software, it means they're licensing YOU to use the software.. no-one else (unless you sell the license to someone else).

For licensing:
In most cases, when you purchase the software, you own one license. You may use this on only one computer at a time.. if you transfer it around to different computers, you must uninstall it from the previous computer first.. so unless the EULA says otherwise, you can install purchased software, do a scan with your license key, and uninstall it.

For removing spyware:
I heard a few things about it being illegal to decompile spyware for the purposes of uninstallation under the DMCA, but that's something that they'd go after the anti-spyware companies for, who are actually doing the reverse engineering.

As for the guy who phoned up ZA, he probably had a pirated copy of ZA, left by a tech on their computer... as long as you don't leave any of the programs you own behind, then you are fine. Install some free alternatives for them to use.

[jcw122]

For permission to install programs:
If you have the user's permission, you can install any program they agree to, or do anything to their computer that they agree to.

For installing specific applications:
Check the EULA, if it says for personal use only, that limits businesses from using it -- that doesn't stop a consultant from downloading it and installing it onto a home user for their personal use only. If it says you can't distribute it, then each place you install it, download it from the website directly. If it's for single use only, it usually means that only one person is allowed to use the software at the same time.. if it's free software, this is almost meaningless, if it's purchased software, it means they're licensing YOU to use the software.. no-one else (unless you sell the license to someone else).

For licensing:
In most cases, when you purchase the software, you own one license. You may use this on only one computer at a time.. if you transfer it around to different computers, you must uninstall it from the previous computer first.. so unless the EULA says otherwise, you can install purchased software, do a scan with your license key, and uninstall it.

For removing spyware:
I heard a few things about it being illegal to decompile spyware for the purposes of uninstallation under the DMCA, but that's something that they'd go after the anti-spyware companies for, who are actually doing the reverse engineering.

As for the guy who phoned up ZA, he probably had a pirated copy of ZA, left by a tech on their computer... as long as you don't leave any of the programs you own behind, then you are fine. Install some free alternatives for them to use.


Wow what a reply. Thanks very much, su root. That helped a bunch.

Even though I see this as trusted info, I'm probably gonna email the individual companies myself, just to double check and what not.

Thanks again!

[su root]

In cases of free softare, you can usually safely ignore most of the EULA, it's meant to stop abuse. The idea behind most of it is either for distribution purposes (so people don't start up their own website, and start distributing copies of the software, taking all the attention away from the real site), or for stats purposes. Limitations are added to stop businesses from abusing the free software by selling it, or things like that.

When you purchase software, it's usually for your own personal use, so there are limits added to that extent. They don't want you using your licensed software on other people's machines, but if you stay within the license agreement (which generally means "don't make a business out of it, and don't pirate it"), then you are fine.

[AMD Phreak]

Pay attention to the EULA for its intended use. Some things can be used for Non-Profits free, while using it at corporate levels requires pay-for-play. Example is Belarc Advisor. When I ran my business we did a security audit for a doctors office. The last place we did one was a non-profit organization so we could use Belarc. This was a regular business so Belarc could not be used free as per the EULA, so we were required to use something different (nmap+nessus+sandra for those interested). If you are dealing with users, anything that says "for home use only" means "dont install this at a business". I will install AVG Free for home customers, but for biz customers I require they purchase something from Sophos, Trend, or any of the others. The same goes for things like AdAwareSE and similar programs.

[Rabid_Llama8]

Something you might want to think about is bootable OSes. Think Knoppix with virus removal software instead of network pilfering software (like Auditor is). Or even better for doing a business, try to find a copy (legally) of the Windows XP Preinstallation kit. This allows you to build a bootable version of Windows XP including as many programs as you can fit onto a CD image. I've personally used a version of Windows PE paired up with FreeAV, a free version of Nod32 GUI, a free version of Macafee, and a few others. A great advantage is using a set of 3 or 4 programs while not booting from the hard drive gives you the opportunity to detect any viruses that may attach themselves to system processes, or scan without the risk of them infecting other files. Kinda like killing a bear while he sleeps instead of attacks.

[Crash893]

I'm considering doing a small time job for people (one that is similar to babysitting or mowing a neighbor's lawn...just locals and cash type of hting), not anything like making my own company, but doing something where I do a service for people that includes removing spyware, viruses, malware, etc for people, mostly locals. Someone suggested to me that it is ILLEGAL to install programs to remove such things for someone else as a technician (?) , unless you have proper certification. As this is obviously a possible problem, I'd like to know if it's true. Thanks!


I'm going to call BS

for a few reasons

1) who would check up on you for the "proper certification" i don't think there is a spyware director general or anything like that
2) if its a small off the books business its not a business so you don't need a business licences
3) you would only need a business licence if you were installing it on many of your own machines. if you install lets say AD-adware for a person for their personal use then its just that

i say go for it. the world needs less spyware

the only problem i can think you could possibly run into is

you go to work on some ones computer and it just blows up and the user says you did it. or you delete something and it all goes south
then you might have trouble

but i think if you made a little certificate that said your not responsible for data loss and had them sign it then you should be alright.

[ƒÓÒl]

I do a service fairly close to what you wanna do, though I don't often take money for it. Friends of friends mostly. Sometimes the person will slip a $20 into my jacket pocket though when I'm not looking.

Anyway, what I do is use the person's own computer to download the free softwares. It's their version on their computer, and I in no way provided the copy for money.
If I'm paid, it's for the work of doing what they couldn't, software maker's still enjoy all their rights, and everybody's happy.
It takes more time though, but since you plan on charging for that time, win win, ya know?

[don256us]

Here's how I handle it.

I provide a service for home users. The software that I mostly use is free to home users. I install that software, update it and run it. I do not charge for the software because it is not my software to charge for. I only charge for the time and materials that I invest into the job.

For my business clients, I insist that they purchase the software that is not free to business users. A receipt is presented to the business so that they may take the tax deduction. I buy the software on behalf of the client and the software is resgistered under the clients name. AVG and Adaware are two examples. I have registered to be a reseller but I do not handle enough volume to make that work.

[jcw122]

I'm going to call BS

for a few reasons

1) who would check up on you for the "proper certification" i don't think there is a spyware director general or anything like that
2) if its a small off the books business its not a business so you don't need a business licences
3) you would only need a business licence if you were installing it on many of your own machines. if you install lets say AD-adware for a person for their personal use then its just that

i say go for it. the world needs less spyware

the only problem i can think you could possibly run into is

you go to work on some ones computer and it just blows up and the user says you did it. or you delete something and it all goes south
then you might have trouble

but i think if you made a little certificate that said your not responsible for data loss and had them sign it then you should be alright.

THanks Crash, as I was researching this earlier, I'd say I have to agree with our points, I also read the entire EULA for Adaware (Free), and found nothing about single user only type things, or anything that would be a hinder to me.

Thanks for the disclaimer suggestion also, I will be definately using that. Much appreciated.

Here's how I handle it.

I provide a service for home users. The software that I mostly use is free to home users. I install that software, update it and run it. I do not charge for the software because it is not my software to charge for. I only charge for the time and materials that I invest into the job.

For my business clients, I insist that they purchase the software that is not free to business users. A receipt is presented to the business so that they may take the tax deduction. I buy the software on behalf of the client and the software is resgistered under the clients name. AVG and Adaware are two examples. I have registered to be a reseller but I do not handle enough volume to make that work.

Thanks don, and yeah I'm not charging for the software, I'll obviously be charging for getting all the crap off their computer, and for my time.

[ghettocomp]

Here's how I handle it.

I provide a service for home users. The software that I mostly use is free to home users. I install that software, update it and run it. I do not charge for the software because it is not my software to charge for. I only charge for the time and materials that I invest into the job.

For my business clients, I insist that they purchase the software that is not free to business users. A receipt is presented to the business so that they may take the tax deduction. I buy the software on behalf of the client and the software is resgistered under the clients name. AVG and Adaware are two examples. I have registered to be a reseller but I do not handle enough volume to make that work.
just like I said in a previous post :D The Key here is : you are PROVIDING A SERVICE. Just make sure it is well understood that you are not selling the software, and nearly everytime, there are exceptions, make sure it is downloaded from the software providers site with the customers name.

Now for the bonus /notice:cup is still half full /end notice
Some states do not require a service to have a business license or to charge for tax if there is no real store front or goods sold (meaning retail hardware, licensed software cd's, etc.. you get the idea) A couple of incidentals here and there with NO INVENTORY on your part is ok. Again the key is PROVIDE A SERVICE.
As for the part of the half empty cup, make absolutely sure that Caesar gets his share, (about 10% is fair) his cronies are PITA SOBs to deal with if they decide you owe. I know, been dere, don dat.

[ErikD]

I should think you would be fine as long as you follow a few simple rules.

Don't go out and buy one copy of a pay software and install it permanently on every computer you work on. You can always download and use a free version on as many computers as you want, it is freeware.

Let the customer know about everything that you will be installing. I can see how it might be a problem if you installed something without letting the owner know, as it might seem like you were trying to hide somehting.

[jcw122]

just like I said in a previous post :D The Key here is : you are PROVIDING A SERVICE. Just make sure it is well understood that you are not selling the software, and nearly everytime, there are exceptions, make sure it is downloaded from the software providers site with the customers name.

Now for the bonus /notice:cup is still half full /end notice
Some states do not require a service to have a business license or to charge for tax if there is no real store front or goods sold (meaning retail hardware, licensed software cd's, etc.. you get the idea) A couple of incidentals here and there with NO INVENTORY on your part is ok. Again the key is PROVIDE A SERVICE.
As for the part of the half empty cup, make absolutely sure that Caesar gets his share, (about 10% is fair) his cronies are PITA SOBs to deal with if they decide you owe. I know, been dere, don dat.

Thanks for the info, and yeah I'll definately in the Disclaimer be including that I'm not selling the software.

Next, this bonus is kinda confusing me, but your basicly saying that in some states, I can sell the software because it's legal to do so if my service doesn't have a store front and that other stuff....interesting.

[Enablingwolf]

If your not accepting a set fee, but a donation. I would be a little on the easier side for you.

One thing I would look into is your RITA. You may have to pay taxes. Even if your under 18 and a student. Other than that. Download programs on site. Then it is personal use for one machine.\

Your not a full biz trying to make profit, your a good guy and in return accepts donations. No fee is discussed, so how can you be sued for a free service. Any money that made it into your hand was out of the kindness of their heart. :P

Least along them lines anyways....

[ghettocomp]

Thanks for the info, and yeah I'll definately in the Disclaimer be including that I'm not selling the software.

Next, this bonus is kinda confusing me, but your basicly saying that in some states, I can sell the software because it's legal to do so if my service doesn't have a store front and that other stuff....interesting.
I was trying to convey the bonus Idea that you may not need a business license in your area if you are performing only a service. that in itself is of great $$ benefit. only real requirement is using your time and skills to perform the service. but check first.

Edit: completing the thought...
also, you can sell the Licensed software as a part of doing business if you do not keep an actual inventory of it, (ordering in or download as a specialty item, FOR the customer) or any other Hardware parts. Still keeps everything as a service :) carry nothing but the tools of the trade :D

PS:: Caesar=Governments..national, state or local.. that is why I say pay him his due..

also Donations are harder to convey without being taken. Some customers are extremely tight with their wallets, especially if they have money.. :shrug:
Donations are easier to get if you are a Non-Profit agency or Church. license for non-profit is expensive to get. A Church is easier to be and pays slightly less tax, but like I said Caesar wants $$ no matter what.
Another PS: Churches and Non-Profits are a little harder to sue...

[jcw122]

If your not accepting a set fee, but a donation. I would be a little on the easier side for you.

One thing I would look into is your RITA. You may have to pay taxes. Even if your under 18 and a student. Other than that. Download programs on site. Then it is personal use for one machine.\

Your not a full biz trying to make profit, your a good guy and in return accepts donations. No fee is discussed, so how can you be sued for a free service. Any money that made it into your hand was out of the kindness of their heart. :P

Least along them lines anyways....

I had a $20 fee in mind, to making like a house call (and if my service was sucessful) but now I'm not so sure, this "donation"...basicly a tip idea...may also work, but then again it's not discussed before hand nessesarily, so I'm not sure. I'll ask around I suppose. Thanks!

[su root]

This is getting a little blown out of proporation. If you are just going to be a tech, then just be a tech. Don't sell them software, don't pirate software and you'll be fine.

For your services, you can charge whatever you want. When I was playing the tech game, it was $30/hour, when all the rest of the shops were charging $65/hour for on-site service. If a part or software was needed, I'd run out to the store with them, they'd buy it, and then I'd continue. However, most of my time was spent fixing their problem, then I'd usually finish off the hour doing a spyware scan, taking useless crap out of their startup folders and registry.. (give them a nice "wow, it's working faster now" feeling). Of course, you'll always get people who will pay you in food, or tip you very well, or just be right uptight about their money... I always went the extra distance for the big tippers ;)

[jcw122]

This is getting a little blown out of proporation. If you are just going to be a tech, then just be a tech. Don't sell them software, don't pirate software and you'll be fine.

For your services, you can charge whatever you want. When I was playing the tech game, it was $30/hour, when all the rest of the shops were charging $65/hour for on-site service. If a part or software was needed, I'd run out to the store with them, they'd buy it, and then I'd continue. However, most of my time was spent fixing their problem, then I'd usually finish off the hour doing a spyware scan, taking useless crap out of their startup folders and registry.. (give them a nice "wow, it's working faster now" feeling). Of course, you'll always get people who will pay you in food, or tip you very well, or just be right uptight about their money... I always went the extra distance for the big tippers ;)

LOL wow that was actually very motivating su root! Because of that I think I'm gonna get started on my flyer right now! Hahaha thanks a bunch.

[Enablingwolf]

One thing I would like to add. No matter what dickering for price I get. I give elderly and vets a discount. Unless they are jerks, but they still don't get full price. Looks good and word spreads about bieng good to folks.

I have charged $100 for a simple defrag, simple tune up and cleaning before(guy was a tool and a half). I looked over the machine and well my time does cost. His machine ran awsome after I was done.

Sometimes I just ask what they think it was worth. Most the folks I deal with give a reasonable amount. If they lowball me. I tell them how much I think it is worth. Me bieng flexable gets me most of my clients. I have given services for free for a really poor family once. Netted me like 4 other projects.

get a feel if you can get more if you can. You really some times don't have to talk money per sey. Many folks can understand a subtle hint. Sometimes you have to be flat out. Them be the ones who may give issues later.

Just make sure you understand not everyone is going to be cool with your services. I wish you a full wallet and loads good clients.

[su root]

When I first started out, I went the "pay me what you think I'm worth" route.. (works well to establish a price level), but is usually followed by an awkward silence or bickering when no-one can decide ;)

I've done my share of free support, and support that I feel wasn't worth my time. On the other hand, I've had clients pay me handsomely (despite my objections) for things as simple as an unplugged cable or the "internet lock" button been pressed on a cable modem, kicking them off the internet.

I always went the extra distance... when I had their case open, I'd do a full clean of it.. when I was finished work, I'd tidy up their computer a bit.. clear out temp files, spyware, startup items, etc. Go through the list of installed programs with them and see if there's anything in there they don't use. Check device manager, see if there's any unknown devices hanging around, or improperly drivered devices (like the default XP video driver.. change that to the proper nvidia or ati driver and no more visible lag). I've found doing these things takes very little time, and your customers will spread the word very quickly. If they hang around while I'm working, I'll let them know what I'm doing, show them how to do maintenance tasks they're capable of (defragging, spyware scanning, etc)

[Enablingwolf]

People love when they feel they are getting a better deal a shop would of given them. Word spreads fast too.


The only thing I don't like is the cheapskate type. Anyone who has done repairs for money knows him and would like him to loose the phone number. At least until the wallet opens up.

The client who no matter what. Will not open the wallet. Calls all the time and tries for a fix on the phone. No matter how much you say "I think this would be best if I took a look at it". He gets antsy, and sometimes very grumpy. When you just don't tell them how to fix it.

I have had calls were I never even really looked at the machine in person or know the specs of it. Yet, I am thought to be working for free and responsible for how well everything runs on the machine. All the while them tripping out on me.

To me that is the hardest client to deal with. Wait, that is not even a client. Some folks you just can't or won't help. That is very difficult to deal with. I hate anyone having a sick computer. When I can't help them, it is tough for me.

[gorilly]

ahh crap i sold something on ebay for £3.25 and i use AVG antivirus free edition and also a few other free programs!! noooo!

lol i wouldnt worry this much. if its for home users you can give them all the free stuff, if its for business then let them know you have to buy licenses