View Full Version : Passive water cooling
Oroka Sempai
12-12-05, 05:33 PM
I hate noise in my computer, and OCing is not really a big issue for me, I do OC, but I would run stock if I could quiet my system.
There is a review of a homemade passive water cooling system, using a huge Tupperware container as the res. I don't like that idea.
So here is my idea.
http://oroka.no-ip.com/stuff/cooling.jpg
This would be 4-5 inches wide, 18 inch high, and 14 inch long. It would be made of clear plexiglass. The angled parts will have some holes in them to allow some of the water to drip though, allowing some heat dissipation. The water would drop a few inches on the end for more heat dissipation. The bottom would have more holes, dripping the water into the Reservoir.
I have never built a water cooling system, but i am liking this idea. Still no idea about pumps and waterblocks.
creative idea, but how would the water cool off without any air circulation?
What you've got there is an evaporation system without the airflow to carry the heat away. It might work OK if it was made of aluminum and acted as a massive convection cooler. Plus if you think all that water dripping would help you sound issues, well, maybe if you like the sound of running water or rain. Good idea though, just needs to be refined.
It is a very interesting idea, although like stated you need to have it open so that the water can evaporate, otherwise the only means it has of cooling down is any heat that gets transfered through the tupperware container. And I'd rather listen to falling water than a fan anyday.
umm that would sound like a fountain.
just get a Scythe Ninja
Senater_Cache
12-12-05, 07:06 PM
umm that would sound like a fountain.
just get a Scythe Ninja
Not the most creative input ehh?
What OS describes is already in use by many. It is similar to Bong (non-phase change evaporative cooling)
do a search for Bong cooling youll surely find some info.
nachosyumm
12-12-05, 07:11 PM
making a bong cooler, or using a large radiator would be the easiest solutions.
basically a bong is a shower head pouring spraying water down an open piece of pvc pipe. They are actually quite simple and cheap, but most people dont have the room for them and/or doesnt like having the open pipe.
Oroka Sempai
12-12-05, 07:24 PM
I have heard about bongs. I was thinking about a vent, but I am not sure if I really need it. I am not trying to disipate the heat through evapouration, but to more through moving the water around. I dont think I would want that humidity either. I choose plexiglass because I figured it would be cool to see the water in action, and with a closed system, the water would be muffled.
sunrunner20
12-12-05, 07:38 PM
moving water around does not reduce the heat its holding. That setup without any ventaltion will mearly sound cool, look cool, but otherwise be pointless.
scott d
12-12-05, 07:40 PM
hmm..that would be kinda cool. Made me think of something crazy though...what if you made something like that, but integrated it into one of those waterfall things that people put in their offices to look at and relax. It would probably provide some evaporative cooling, and you could have bragging rights.
like this maybe? (http://www.ncdecor.com/fountains/34807.jpg)
I know, I know, I'm crazy....just a random thought i had.
EDIT: or this (http://www.aquatic-store.com/en-us/dept_737.html)
nachosyumm
12-12-05, 07:43 PM
basically, you will just have an extremely cool looking rez. The heat from the pump alone would be higher then any disapation of heat you would get from that.
Pro*Banshee
12-12-05, 07:44 PM
When I had my bucket cooler, I could run completley passive with no fans and I still got rad temps.
Reefa_Madness
12-12-05, 07:46 PM
hmm..that would be kinda cool. Made me think of something crazy though...what if you made something like that, but integrated it into one of those waterfall things that people put in their offices to look at and relax. It would probably provide some evaporative cooling, and you could have bragging rights.
like this maybe? (http://www.ncdecor.com/fountains/34807.jpg)
I know, I know, I'm crazy....just a random thought i had.
EDIT: or this (http://www.aquatic-store.com/en-us/dept_737.html)
I've got one of those things, similar to the first one you linked, but larger and with more surface area, that is just sitting in a box. You've got me thinking now that I might be able to put it to better use. :D
Oroka Sempai
12-12-05, 08:05 PM
I did think of something like that, but in a clear box, the outlet pointing straight up, splashing water all over the place. Why should your res be boring?
I really cant see doing that to water not dissapate heat at all. If you can put it in a big bucket and get good temps, but move it around and get nothing? It should be basic physics. If you move air over a surface, the heat radiation should be blown off. That much air and surface area would allow for a fair bit of heat dissipation.
i still think it will sound like a fountain isnt this what the zillman system is like or watever that blue big tube is?
scott d
12-12-05, 08:21 PM
I've got one of those things, similar to the first one you linked, but larger and with more surface area, that is just sitting in a box. You've got me thinking now that I might be able to put it to better use. :D
If you do it, I wanna see pics. I'm not crazy enough to try it, but surely someone around here is.
I did think of something like that, but in a clear box, the outlet pointing straight up, splashing water all over the place. Why should your res be boring?
I really cant see doing that to water not dissapate heat at all. If you can put it in a big bucket and get good temps, but move it around and get nothing? It should be basic physics. If you move air over a surface, the heat radiation should be blown off. That much air and surface area would allow for a fair bit of heat dissipation.
Yeah, that's the concept behind evaporative cooling. The warm water evaporates, drawing heat out of the water that is left behind. The same way sweat works on your body. The only thing, you have to refill it from time to time. and would that make your room awfully humid?
I guess as long as it's an open top, it may work. The evaporated water has to go somewhere, it can't stay trapped in a closed system.
I really cant see doing that to water not dissapate heat at all. If you can put it in a big bucket and get good temps, but move it around and get nothing? It should be basic physics. If you move air over a surface, the heat radiation should be blown off. That much air and surface area would allow for a fair bit of heat dissipation.It’s not basic physics, it is basic thermodynamics. The heat has to go somewhere. Your proposed device would do a good job in getting the heat from the water to the air but if the unit is closed then the only heat that would escape would be whatever could through the Plexiglas. If copper has a transfer rating of 200 (or whatever) then I’m sure Plexiglas is somewhere in the low double digits.
I really cant see doing that to water not dissapate heat at all. If you can put it in a big bucket and get good temps, but move it around and get nothing? It should be basic physics. If you move air over a surface, the heat radiation should be blown off. That much air and surface area would allow for a fair bit of heat dissipation.
The reason the bucket cooling method works is because the water is exposed to fresh, cool air. The water is hotter than the air it is exposed to, so it gives off its heat to the air. That hot air is replaced by cool air from natural convection in the room, and the cycle continues.
Inside an enclosed box like your method, the water would fall through the same air eternally. The air inside the box would heat up rapidly, reaching the same temperature of the water, and the exchange of heat would stop.
The reason a radiator works is that they are made out of metal. The water is in contact with the metal. So the heat is transferred through the metal to the air outside of the radiator. Your design wouldn't work as a radiator either because the plexiglass would actually act as an insulator, not a conductor.
These are basic laws of thermodynamics. Google them, and you will learn a lot.
Also in your design, the majority of the water would flow down the ramps. Only small amounts would drip through because water will take the path of least resistance.
Research bong coolers, and you will see how evaporitive cooling works.
what about going to your local auto parts store and buying a transmission cooler(with small fitting, you can get kit that are ment for upgrading auto transmissions) or rad off a civic or geo metro. It would provide huge surface area and comes with a warrenty.
And for my second idea draws inspriation from physics class, go with me on this.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/images/vver_reactor.jpg
Basiclly your cpu and gpu act as the reactor. You take your water and pump it to an heat exchanger to create steam while cooling of the water you than take the steam and either use it to run a turbine to generate some power and make your rig that much more efficeint or make some cappicino
Using a the tower in a nuclear power plant as a bong for a WC setup is on the list of things I plan on doing when/if I get rich. Along with opening a store that only takes Canadian dollars.
Amarkarian
12-12-05, 09:32 PM
nah of course thats not overkill, thats super uber overkilled
Hey Goog.
Since water boils at 100C and needs to be higher still to produce workable steam (which is a very bad temps for your processor to reach) it would only work for about 6 seconds and die before windoze loads. That's not cooling, that's killing.
Sorry m8, had to point that out before you force yourself into creating a new "what parts do I buy" thread. ;)
Oroka Sempai
12-12-05, 11:19 PM
ZachM - come on man, less nay-saying and more ideas. If it wont completely work this way, then what can be done to make it work?
Well, if the water wants to flow down the ramps, then I will just make the holes bigger.
I still think that such a large surface would conduct enough heat to sufficently cool the system. I could also use say... 1/8" plexiglass for the sides, it would be very thin, so it should pass the heat through more easily, following the laws of thermanianodyamianianics (yes, I spelt that very wrong on purpose).
What if I used sheet aluminum for the side that would be behind the water?
Any more ideas?
OHOHOH! I was thinking of coloring the water, maybe a airplane toilet water blue or something :D
You need some type of outside air contact. If I was going to try to build that I would
1.use a low cfm fan at the top, making sure there was enough clearance between the top ramp and the top of the enclosure so that you dont get a blow-back effect.
2. create a vent in the enclosure on the side above the last ramp/level. maybe cover it with a fan filter,screen,or scotch pad to stop and water from splashing out.
3. if possible, use aluminum or copper sheeting for the ramps instead. It should help cool the water better concidering the air flow on it. And you can still put pin hole in them for your 'drip effect'.
I actually have all of the stuff I need to do this so I might have to try it to see what happens if I can even find the time. ;)
Moto7451
12-12-05, 11:37 PM
Hey Goog.
Since water boils at 100C and needs to be higher still to produce workable steam (which is a very bad temps for your processor to reach) it would only work for about 6 seconds and die before windoze loads. That's not cooling, that's killing.
Sorry m8, had to point that out before you force yourself into creating a new "what parts do I buy" thread. ;)
Thats true at atmospheric pressures only. Lower the pressure & the boiling point drops. Thats the principle behind the thermosyphon. Of course the complexity of this means that its only practical in things as small as the thermosyphon. A power plant sized cooler or even an oil cooler sized thermosyphon evap chamber or condenser would be horribly impractical.
On a side note, my bro's A64 ran at 96°C for 30 seconds without killing the CPU. I don't know what he was thinking not having thermal shutdown protection enabled in his BIOS. He's a lucky kid.
I really think if you're going for an external cooling mechanism you should just build your self a Bong Cooler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bong_cooler); improve upon the idea in some way you see fit. Not trying to be mean here but you're basically trying to use a water heater (something insulated) as a radiator.
Oroka Sempai
12-12-05, 11:49 PM
I friend of mine, his HSF was nearly completely clogged with dust, and was running at 90c for weeks, no ill effect. It was a Sempron 2500 I think.
Pyros: I could think up a zillion ways to cool water using fans and metal, the point is to have it clear, and pretty much a display piece. If I was going for efficentcy, I would use a car rad or something...
I friend of mine, his HSF was nearly completely clogged with dust, and was running at 90c for weeks, no ill effect. It was a Sempron 2500 I think.
Pyros: I could think up a zillion ways to cool water using fans and metal, the point is to have it clear, and pretty much a display piece. If I was going for efficentcy, I would use a car rad or something...
A display piece? So you dont care if it helps your temp? Sure it will work then. Until the heat load builds up and then what? Its plain and simple. This design as you suggest it does not have the ability to disapate a heat load for a significant amount of time. Dont you want it to atleast cool as well as the stock cooler?
You know why those desktop fountains work even though they have such a low flow? Its the exposure to air. Fresh air. Close one up in a box and it would not preform nearly as well.
I was only suggesting you use metal for the ramps. Listen to what everyone else is saying to you. With such a small enclosure not using air will not give you a noticable cooling effect. you might as well skip the ramps and just pump it in the top and out the bottom. The ramps just wont help without some type of air circulation or a massive ammount of water to absorb the heat load.(In which case you wont need the ramps.) And though you may think it, plastic does not transfer heat all that well.
Im not busting your ***** or anything. Im not discouraging you either. But you dont seem to realize what people are saying. i like the idea and think it is something I would even like to try.
The only other thing I know of would to direct cool the enclosure itself some how. Maybe with a low watt pelt?? :shrug: just enough to keep the heat load in the water down to a managable temp. But then you have to cool the pelt so I dont know. Maybe something like a aquarium cooler. I know this still stray away from your plan but its all I can think of. Sorry. :shrug: :cool:
I think you just need to build it. Maybe the temps will be what your willing to accept. Remember most people here are extremist and every little degree means the world to them. Once i started doing aftermarket type cooling I became anal about the temp of everything I owned. lol
I'm using a small car rad passively and I absolutely enjoy it. It is only about 1" thick by 12" high by 18" long and is bolted to the side of my case so it moves with the case.
I think going this route would be a lot easier and would give you the quiet you want.
Oroka Sempai
12-13-05, 01:38 AM
I still really want to have it look cool. That is the main thing that is getting in the way right now. I want to do watercooling, but not a car rad or something, I want it to look cool.
If I opened a hole, and allowed the humidity out, it would really make that big of a diffrence? I would rather avoid that... I dont need all the windows in my place fogged up all the time.
What if I put hollow metal tubes, maybe copper, going through the tank, with the water flowing over them. The insides of the tubes would be open to the air, and would help disapate the heat?
Vengance_01
12-13-05, 01:47 AM
I think its good idea. I would recomed placing some big big Blowers and run them in 5 volt. This would provide airflow to cool the air, but should be very quiet :santa2:
Several years ago, someone posted about making side panels for his case similar to your plex cooler. He used copper, though. With plexiglas, you wouldn't get much cooling at all. I've also seen fanless setups using copper pipe, but the more power a CPU uses, the more pipe you're going to need, and I haven't seen anything like that recently.
In order to run a modern, overclocked CPU -- even a Venice -- without fans, you're going to need a lot of surface area. Automotive and baseboard radiators can give you that in a relatively small space. Anything else is going to be seriously huge. Is that a problem? If you don't need portability, an artful arrangement of copper tubing mounted on the wall could give you great cooling without noise. How about two clear tanks with backlights connected by a forest of narrow copper tubing? Perhaps you could cast clear acrylic around 1/8" tubing to make manifolds for many parallel runs.
youve probably already considered these but just incase
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118111
http://www.thermaltake.com/watercooling/cl-w0011rocket/cl-w0011.htm
http://www.thermaltake.com/watercooling/cl-w0040symphony/cl-w0040.htm (not passive but supposedly very quiet with slow moving fans)
Oroka Sempai
12-13-05, 10:39 AM
Well, I dont want a huge copper pipe ornament on my wall... what about a piller of weaving copper pipe? I would really like something see throught, but I would be willing to intergrate some copper into it... might look cool.
datura3
12-13-05, 10:55 AM
Well, I dont want a huge copper pipe ornament on my wall... what about a piller of weaving copper pipe? I would really like something see throught, but I would be willing to intergrate some copper into it... might look cool.
I'm currently building a completely passive system. If you want me to send you a pic of the nearly finished product, I can. I haven't posted it yet because I have no idea if it works. It contains three passive radiators. Two innovatek convection radiators used a side panels and one custom built for the top. Plus about 30 lb of aluminum heatsink extrusion. I really did a lot of research concerning passive cooling and this was the best solution that I could come up with. The zalman and thermaltake perform very poorly, so I quicky excluded those. This setup should be able to dissapate about 220 watts of heat. If you are interested in building one I can send you the design.
Jeff Moser
12-13-05, 11:06 AM
I really like the little waterfall idea but just like a bong it would be difficult to filter the air. Water is like a magnet to dust and so on the water would almost instantly become polluted and in no time you would get particulate matter in your system that can play havoc with pumps and micro channels in water blocks unless your working in a clean room like situation the maint. on this would be prohibitive in my opinion. I would go with massive area and good ole conduction and convection.
Oroka Sempai
12-13-05, 11:15 AM
I am starting to get a feeling that I will need to use massive ammounts of water if I do a closed passive WC set-up...how about more water?
http://oroka.no-ip.com/stuff/cooling2.jpg
Well, I dont want a huge copper pipe ornament on my wall... what about a piller of weaving copper pipe? I would really like something see throught, but I would be willing to intergrate some copper into it... might look cool.
The copper tubing could take nearly any form. Just avoid anything that would trap air.
Jeff Moser
12-13-05, 11:24 AM
The copper tubing could take nearly any form. Just avoid anything that would trap air.
Like a 6 ft. tall trelles like art form on the wall behind your desk.. get a big pump.
I am starting to get a feeling that I will need to use massive ammounts of water if I do a closed passive WC set-up...how about more water?
More water will give you a sort of flywheel effect, allowing you to dissipate the heat from brief periods of high cpu activity over a longer time. However, it won't increase your cooling capacity. What you need is more surface area.
jamesavery22
12-13-05, 11:38 AM
I am starting to get a feeling that I will need to use massive ammounts of water if I do a closed passive WC set-up...how about more water?
...
If there is no contact with outside air in that system, just water->plexiglass->air then it really is pointless. The more water you have the longer it will take to reach a max temp, but it will still reach the same max temp (well a little lower because a tad bit of heat energy will be dissipated into the air through the plexiglass and you have more surface area, but barely any). The only way your idea will work is a evaporative setup. You will just be making your own shower head and have a very small tower.
That review that was on overclockers.com really wasn't a good example of a passive setup. His might really work only because its an old p3 setup so he's probably dealing with very little heat, like 50w. And his setup was evaporating. Just very slowely. Im sure his tuperware thing wasnt completely air tight. And you could even see in every pic the water that had evaporated then condensed again and was dripping down the sides.
Anyways you aren't going to get too much help with your:
I still really want to have it look cool. That is the main thing that is getting in the way right now. I want to do watercooling, but not a car rad or something, I want it to look cool...
frame of mind.
Lots of people come in here with the "bling" mode on and throw reason right out the window. Most people here look for performance and recommend solutions that revolve around performance. Not center pieces.
If your really want your idea to work, read up on evaporative cooling. You want the smallest droplets you can make, the most droplets, and you want those droplets to have the largest possible "hang time."
If you want other ideas heres what I'm doing. Basically the same thing as the others with large car radiators. Im just using a baseboard pipe
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jtorres/Pics/baseboard.jpg
Graystar
12-13-05, 11:41 AM
I am starting to get a feeling that I will need to use massive ammounts of water if I do a closed passive WC set-up...how about more water?With the quality of heatpipe coolers today, there's just no reason to anything like this. A Nexus fan is going to be more quiet than the pump you're gonna need to run that system.
datura3
12-13-05, 12:00 PM
If you want other ideas heres what I'm doing. Basically the same thing as the others with large car radiators. Im just using a baseboard pipe
Is that a nalgene res? nice.
My take on the aesthetics of a cooling system is that form should follow function. Anything that's well engineered will have a certain beauty, and copper, whether polished or allowed to turn brown, looks pretty good anyway.
That said, I do understand the computer as an art form. Besides being a machine, it is also a piece of furniture and a means of self expression. As you learn more about cooling, though, designs that go out of their way to show off start to look rather silly -- like a car with exaggerated rocket-ship tailfins trimmed in flashing neon.
It's your computer, though, and if you like that kind of thing, go for it. Just make sure it also cools the chips. :)
jamesavery22
12-13-05, 12:09 PM
Is that a nalgene res? nice.
Yeah but that POS cracked. Don't think it liked the epoxy I used to hold the barbs together. Its not the HDPE nalgene. Nalgene the brand sells a bunch of crappy things like that bottle I got from eddie bauer. I got the real Nalgene HDPE stuff here:
USPlastics.com (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog_name=USPlastic&category_name=15034&product_id=14941&MSCSProfile=95385A1F52DEA1A229D5B375420544642889B5 21C5AEE8B0022E406644D8191386EAA671C27DB2FB5C16FE41 F0CDCB3193EC72A480296335E56D071C902D134FAE2D1EA149 CA68EE90C5A0052E857BC380899E45B771B5C8127D15023B2B 7D40FBA8F3F63DA8B8134A6B5510F389C2481C737DE46790CD 27C8989ACF70228434C83F75809FB44D6D)
datura3
12-13-05, 12:13 PM
Yeah but that POS cracked. Don't think it liked the epoxy I used to hold the barbs together. Its not the HDPE nalgene. Nalgene the brand sells a bunch of crappy things like that bottle I got from eddie bauer. I got the real Nalgene HDPE stuff here:
USPlastics.com (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog_name=USPlastic&category_name=15034&product_id=14941&MSCSProfile=95385A1F52DEA1A229D5B375420544642889B5 21C5AEE8B0022E406644D8191386EAA671C27DB2FB5C16FE41 F0CDCB3193EC72A480296335E56D071C902D134FAE2D1EA149 CA68EE90C5A0052E857BC380899E45B771B5C8127D15023B2B 7D40FBA8F3F63DA8B8134A6B5510F389C2481C737DE46790CD 27C8989ACF70228434C83F75809FB44D6D)
Got it. I work in a wet lab ;)
I HAVE THE SOLUTION!
http://www.andrewskow.com/ta001.jpg
http://www.andrewskow.com/ta000.jpg
http://www.andrewskow.com/ta002.jpg
Graystar
12-13-05, 12:41 PM
re:transparent aluminum It's called synthetic sapphire and is used for things like watch crystals and the windows of bar code scanners.
It's called synthetic sapphire and is used for things like watch crystals and the windows of bar code scanners.Action: Soong hands Graystar a sense of humor.
LOL. Who needs transparent aluminum? Diamond is clear enough, and it has a much lower thermal resistance.
Graystar
12-13-05, 01:11 PM
Action: Soong hands Graystar a sense of humor.Action: Graystar hands it back saying "I'm all set, thank you. It's just that people don't reallize there is such a thing."
Action: Graystar hands it back saying "I'm all set, thank you. It's just that people don't reallize there is such a thing."Damn it I know something like it exists, that doesn't mean that wasn't funny.
Graystar
12-13-05, 01:55 PM
Damn it I know something like it exists,Hey that makes two of us! :p
Oroka Sempai
12-13-05, 09:37 PM
http://www.andrewskow.com/ta000.jpg
Must be fake, it is on a Apple ;)
well... what if I put a water cooler cooling system in the loop? I have a old one that works well, and it is quiet.
Another thought I have been having is makeing a tower of weaving copper tubing?
Xymurgy
12-13-05, 11:46 PM
What about vertical copper tubes that go through the box - water flowing across the tubing, with the insides of the tubes exposed to air. At least you're giving the heat somewhere to go, which is what this design really needs.
Oroka Sempai
12-14-05, 12:40 AM
Yeah, I mentioned that a few posts back, but no one said anything about it.
ls7corvete
12-14-05, 01:48 AM
If there is no contact with outside air in that system, just water->plexiglass->air then it really is pointless. The more water you have the longer it will take to reach a max temp, but it will still reach the same max temp (well a little lower because a tad bit of heat energy will be dissipated into the air through the plexiglass and you have more surface area, but barely any). The only way your idea will work is a evaporative setup. You will just be making your own shower head and have a very small tower.
That review that was on overclockers.com really wasn't a good example of a passive setup. His might really work only because its an old p3 setup so he's probably dealing with very little heat, like 50w. And his setup was evaporating. Just very slowely. Im sure his tuperware thing wasnt completely air tight. And you could even see in every pic the water that had evaporated then condensed again and was dripping down the sides.
Anyways you aren't going to get too much help with your:
frame of mind.
Lots of people come in here with the "bling" mode on and throw reason right out the window. Most people here look for performance and recommend solutions that revolve around performance. Not center pieces.
If your really want your idea to work, read up on evaporative cooling. You want the smallest droplets you can make, the most droplets, and you want those droplets to have the largest possible "hang time."
If you want other ideas heres what I'm doing. Basically the same thing as the others with large car radiators. Im just using a baseboard pipe
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jtorres/Pics/baseboard.jpg
Do you have any info about how much heat a section of that stuff will handle? I have wanted to do a case with two lengths of that going across the top of the case.
I HAVE THE SOLUTION!
ROFLMFAO. That's awesome, but I think nobody else here has seen IV or something. Obviously the thread-starter didn't get it...
clocker2
12-14-05, 09:23 AM
What about vertical copper tubes that go through the box - water flowing across the tubing, with the insides of the tubes exposed to air. At least you're giving the heat somewhere to go, which is what this design really needs.
So, basically an inside-out radiator design, eh?
Yeah, I mentioned that a few posts back, but no one said anything about it.
Mainly because it wouldn't work.
In essence, this entire design is just a bong cooler with the most critical component left out- the air/water interface that allows for evaporation (i.e. heat transfer) to occur.
As originally proposed (and with the suggested "tube", etc. modifications), what we are looking at is an overly complex reservoir, not a radiator.
Depending on the volume of water this holds, temps might be OK for a limited amount of time as the water heats up but after that the PC would need to be shutdown and the watermass allowed to revert back to room ambient.
I have no idea what this cycle time might be but there is no way this design works as a full time cooling system.
@Oraka...
I appreciate the desire to reinvent the wheel but you first have to understand how a wheel works.
Perhaps if you studied how a successful waterloop functions and the various events/conditions that make it so you could find ways to improve it.
This attempt however completely ignores basic first principles and is doomed to fail.
Oroka Sempai
12-14-05, 11:49 AM
ROFLMFAO. That's awesome, but I think nobody else here has seen IV or something. Obviously the thread-starter didn't get it...
Yes, I know Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home quite well, and how Scotty offers Transparent Aluminium to a guy, in exchange for a sheet of the stuff to create a tank for a humpback whale they are stealing. I even remember Bones mentioning that maybe it was scotty that invented the stuff, so it wont alter the time line. I just felt the apple was more funny, on a massively PC orientated web board.
clacker2: I understand the concept of a bong, I understand that a closed loop made of plastic will hold the heat in, slowly building up the heat. I want to create something new, if everyone who wanted to create something new listened to all the people who say 'I appreciate the desire to reinvent the wheel but you first have to understand how a wheel works.', not many new things would get created. Some times you have to think outside the box/rad, come up with new ideas, modify those ideas, come up with new ideas...
Come on guys, this is for fun. If it don't work, I wasted a few hours of time and $20 in plexiglass. If the whole concept is 100% flawed, and will not work in any manner, no matter of any modifications, then lets come up with new ideas. Don't just say it wont work and that is it.
If form strictly followed function, we would all be driving army tanks and living in concrete bunkers. Creativity is the catalyst of innovative creation.
Not to intrude on this thread but...
'Clear aluminum' = aluminum oxynitride, probably not that good of a conductor :P.
(when all else fails, ask a chemist)
clocker2
12-14-05, 05:57 PM
clacker2: I understand the concept of a bong, I understand that a closed loop made of plastic will hold the heat in, slowly building up the heat.
OK, now I'm confused.
If you understand the concept and see the flaw in the design, why pursue it?
I want to create something new, if everyone who wanted to create something new listened to all the people who say 'I appreciate the desire to reinvent the wheel but you first have to understand how a wheel works.', not many new things would get created. Some times you have to think outside the box/rad, come up with new ideas, modify those ideas, come up with new ideas...
Are you familiar with a man named John Harrison?
Charles Babbage?
If you'd like to create something "new" their stories would be quite instructive.
Both were "out-of-the-box" thinkers whose work (particularly Harrison's, poor Babbage was too far ahead of his time's technology) revolutionized the world.
But, as far outside conventional thinking as they lived (in Harrison's case, both figuratively as well as literally) their work was still founded on first priciples, not magical thinking.
Come on guys, this is for fun.
Don't you think this is fun?
If it don't work, I wasted a few hours of time and $20 in plexiglass. If the whole concept is 100% flawed, and will not work in any manner, no matter of any modifications, then lets come up with new ideas. Don't just say it wont work and that is it.
If you build it I would not consider it a waste of time.
Submit the prototype to Thermaltake and we'll all see it for sale in CompUSA next week.
If form strictly followed function, we would all be driving army tanks and living in concrete bunkers. Creativity is the catalyst of innovative creation.
I hope you found this constructive and not derisional (See? I'm creative too...I just invented a word!) as I wish you the best.
A further bit of information....there is no "a" in "clocker".
Theorie
12-14-05, 09:03 PM
passive water cooling BLOWS
i tried a shower-head bong-style evaporation tower before...needed to be refilled all the time...also wasnt that great at cooling compared to using a radiator and closed loop system
Oroka Sempai
12-14-05, 09:57 PM
I hope you found this constructive and not derisional (See? I'm creative too...I just invented a word!) as I wish you the best.
A further bit of information....there is no "a" in "clocker".
Changes nothing. I think the idea would look cool, and I would like to intergrate it into a WC set-up somehow. Car parts and a tupperware container full of water is not something I want in my livingroom.
http://oroka.no-ip.com/stuff/oraka.jpg
Moving on.
Maybe it would have to be a non cooling element... something else cool looking would act like a rad, and my toilet water foutain thing would be part of the res?
clocker2
12-14-05, 10:23 PM
passive water cooling BLOWS
i tried a shower-head bong-style evaporation tower before...needed to be refilled all the time...also wasnt that great at cooling compared to using a radiator and closed loop system
Hmmm...
My understanding is that a properly designed bong cooler can achieve sub-ambient temps which would make it superior to a closed loop, standard water system.
Besides, a bong cooler can hardly be classified as "passive"- isn't there typically a fan involved?
You can't just say that passive cooling "BLOWS" without specifying the goals that it fails to achieve.
Real passive cooling (I'm thinking Zalman Reserator or the Innovatek Convect-o-Matics (gotta love that name!)) appeals primarily to the "quieter is better" crowd and seem to work very well within the constraints of their expectations. Higher operating temp is a perfectly acceptable tradeoff to get lower Db and max MHz is not even a concern.
Actually, even the Zalman and the Innovateks are not truly passive-they require a pump to circulate the coolant. I've seen a few (very few...) pumpless systems that rely on convection to circulate water, but they seem more like experiments than dependable day to day systems (could be wrong about this though).
Changes nothing. I think the idea would look cool, and I would like to intergrate it into a WC set-up somehow. Car parts and a tupperware container full of water is not something I want in my livingroom.
Oops, my bad. Really.
Apologies all around.
Moving on then.
Not sure where the Tupperware or car parts came into the picture and I wasn't aware that you were designing for sheer bling as opposed to utility.
If adding whirlygigs and hamster runs to your waterloop is your thing, then have at it.
You see, I thought your "thinking outside the box" was aimed at improving the performance of your machine, hence the reference to John Harrison.
Now I realize that Rube Goldberg would be a more appropriate role model.
Now I realize that Rube Goldberg would be a more appropriate role model.LOL good one!
I've been trying to avoid the 'look what I came up with' threads (1337 waterblock, this one, others) but I have to give that a :clap:
PhoenixOfChaos
12-14-05, 11:40 PM
At least this idea has some non-supersecret potential (refrence to 1337 waterblock).
I would honestly get a quiet fan and a rad to put in your loop, and have it like tucked away behind your desk or something so you can have both nice temps and and your art.. :shrug:
Oroka Sempai
12-15-05, 10:56 AM
I hate noise in my computer, and OCing is not really a big issue for me, I do OC, but I would run stock if I could quiet my system.
First sentence of the first post pretty much explaines that my intentions are not improving system performance, but lowering my noise level.
I am glad you are getting a good laugh out of the Rube Goldberg thing. Really helps being told I should look up to someone who creates pointless contraptions to do simple jobs.
clocker2
12-15-05, 01:00 PM
First sentence of the first post pretty much explaines that my intentions are not improving system performance, but lowering my noise level.
I am glad you are getting a good laugh out of the Rube Goldberg thing. Really helps being told I should look up to someone who creates pointless contraptions to do simple jobs.
Maybe it would have to be a non cooling element... something else cool looking would act like a rad, and my toilet water foutain thing would be part of the res?
:shrug:
jamesavery22
12-20-05, 07:44 PM
Do you have any info about how much heat a section of that stuff will handle? I have wanted to do a case with two lengths of that going across the top of the case.
No sorry no info =( Sorry for the late response but Christmas has sucked up all my time. Im building an X2/SLI box once I get done with my HTPC. The X2 box will be cooled with it. Its not hooked up to any system at all right now. Just ran the tubing one night because I was bored =\ Once I finally get around to it I'll post results with temps etc.
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