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My Very First WC Setup! LOOK!

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shawkins

Member
Joined
May 28, 2005
Location
Tigard, Oregon
Hey all I am about to embark on my very first WC setup! I plan to use the following:

- Swiftech STORM (G4) CPU block ON ORDER
- Swiftech mcp655 pump HAVE
- Black Ice Extreme III RAD HAVE
- 1/2" ID Tygon tubing HAVE
- 5 Panaflo medium speed fans (3 going on rad): http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/pa12mesp.html (may upgrade to 6 alluminum Cooler Masters) HAVE 511 ON ORDER

My questions are:
1) Hows the setup look?
2) What would you change?
3) I have read that the STORM like pressure. With out a GPU block in my system yet, will the one mcp655 provide enough pressure?
4) Should I use a reservoir?


I will probably have a few more questions the further we get into this, but those are it for now.

Let me know what ya think! Good or bad!
Thanks!

UPDATE: Everything has been ordered!
 
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1. You have the exact same stuff i have except i used primoflex instead of Tygon.
2. Wouldn't change a thing
3. An MCP655 is a perfect pump for the Storm. It will still be enough even if you decide to add a GPU block down the road.
4. No.

The Panaflo M1A's are quite quiet at 7V's and still provide enough air, definately for a single cpu without tha GPU block. You won't need to upgrade to 6 fans. Push-Pull isn't that efficient, and highly doubt it will lower your temps at all.
 
Just to throw in an extra opinion . . .

I personally really like using a reservoir for the following reasons (of course, I'm open to correction, just please be coureous. :) ) . . .

1. Bleeding the system is easier. The reservoir does it automatically. You can just fill the system and it will essentially bleed itself as all the air eventually gets to the reservoir and goes to the top. A fillport requires that you wait for the bleeding to be done before you close the loop.

2. Bleeding the system is more thorough. I have noticed that it can take up to 3 days for the bleeding to be absolutely complete. This is evident when all the bubbles have disappeared and the water level in the reservoir drops slightly as the trapped air in the tubes makes its way to the reservoir and up to the top. The reservoir can then be opened and more water added. With a T-line, where does trapped air go after days of use?

3. It’s easier to prime the pump. With a reservoir, you can just fill it up and add a little more water as necessary when the pump pulls water into the tubes. With a T-line you have to balance a funnel and fill it a little at a time (depending on how big the funnel is). If the pump pulls all the water too quickly, you need to turn it off until you fill the funnel some more since you don’t want to run the pump dry.

4. A reservoir is basically the same price as a T-line. A nice reservoir like the Swiftech MCRES-MICRO is about $15. A “T” and a fill port are about $12+$2 = $14 at Danger Den.

5. A reservoir hardly takes more room than a T-line.

6. There is more water in the loop for better cooling. More water is able to absorb more heat and emit more heat than less water. A reservoir allows there to be more water (without more tubing which of course would mean more restriction).

7. It's easier to see the water level of the system at any time. With time, some amount of water evaporates through the tubes and the water level drops. This can be seen easily with a reservoir. With a T-line, you have to inspect all the tubes for air pockets.

8. A reservoir looks cool, especially with UV reactive coolant. (At least in my opinion. :) Example: pic1, pic2)
 
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6. There is more water in the loop for better cooling. More water is able to absorb more heat and emit more heat than less water. A reservoir allows there to be more water (without more tubing which of course would mean more restriction).[\quote]

I agree with the other points and also have come to prefer a res over a t-line, but there are some problems with the point above.

More water does not make for better cooling necessarily, unless you are talking about a very large quantity of water with a way for it to shed its heat. Also, more tubing does not really lead to more restriction when you are only talking about a few feet at most that we usually use. The waterblocks and rad are going to be the main source of restriction.
 
voigts said:
6. There is more water in the loop for better cooling. More water is able to absorb more heat and emit more heat than less water. A reservoir allows there to be more water (without more tubing which of course would mean more restriction).[\quote]

I agree with the other points and also have come to prefer a res over a t-line, but there are some problems with the point above.

More water does not make for better cooling necessarily, unless you are talking about a very large quantity of water with a way for it to shed its heat. Also, more tubing does not really lead to more restriction when you are only talking about a few feet at most that we usually use. The waterblocks and rad are going to be the main source of restriction.
more water takes longer to heat up, therefor having more water will allow the loop to run cooler and thus cooling better, as cold water can absorb more heat than warm.
 
DvBoard said:
more water takes longer to heat up, therefor having more water will allow the loop to run cooler and thus cooling better, as cold water can absorb more heat than warm.

It only runs cooler until all the water heats up.

The advantage of a big res is that it will allow you to transfer the heat to the air over a longer time. Hence, if you run your CPU at full blast for 10 minutes and then go back to idling for the next hour, your fans could keep the same speed without the CPU overheating. If you fold, though, having more coolant won't do you any good. The water will heat up to the same temperature it would reach if there were no res and stay at that temperature. You'll only see lower temperatures for the first few minutes.
 
Perseus said:
Nice mounting on that res, Rev. Just when I think I've seen it all a rig like yours shows up. :cool:
That cracked me up! :D

I think what Otter said really sums it up well. . . . So for practical purposes having a lot of water could possibly help. . . . For example, my system usually idles at 1.06GHz with 1.07Vcore and then rises up to 2.70GHz with 1.70Vcore when there is a load on the CPU. (I use a a program called RightMark CPU Utility that automatically adjusts the CPU speed and voltage according to CPU load.) So most of the time the water is cool and temps are low. But even when my system is under load for 5-10min., the temps don't change as much because it takes a while for all the water to heat up. And by then, I would probably be back at idle speed again. . . . So I guess the greater amount of water helps in some cases. :)


@ poogl3 - I used one of these (also found here). Maybe this pic will give you a better view of how it's mounted.

It's actually perfect for cooling RAM as well. I'm looking forward to setting up a DFI Expert this weekend, and I can tell that the RAM will line up right behind the reservoir. (See pic) So I'll use the same bracket to hold a 120mm fan in front of the RAM. Woot! . . . I love it when stuff fits together like that!
:D
 
Only thing left ti figure out is: Res. or T-line? I can't decide! Im going to do some more reading here to figure it out.

What do you guys prefer? What are the Pros/Cons of each?

Thanks!
 
Revivalist said:
Just to throw in an extra opinion . . .

I personally really like using a reservoir for the following reasons (of course, I'm open to correction, just please be coureous. :) ) . . .

1. Bleeding the system is easier. The reservoir does it automatically. You can just fill the system and it will essentially bleed itself as all the air eventually gets to the reservoir and goes to the top. A fillport requires that you wait for the bleeding to be done before you close the loop.
Why? The T-line holds extra fluid. It can potentially hold allot more fluid that your particular reservoir if the T is at the bottom of your case and the fill port is at the top of a 22.5 inch case using 1/2" ID tubing.

Revivalist said:
2. Bleeding the system is more thorough. I have noticed that it can take up to 3 days for the bleeding to be absolutely complete. This is evident when all the bubbles have disappeared and the water level in the reservoir drops slightly as the trapped air in the tubes makes its way to the reservoir and up to the top. The reservoir can then be opened and more water added. With a T-line, where does trapped air go after days of use?
In a T-Line setup the idea is to have the bubbles go up as they normally do except instead of floating to the top of a turbulent pool of water, the float to the top of a tube of water. The volume of air that escapes is replaced by an equal volume of water from the T line. A T line can also be refilled.

Revivalist said:
3. It’s easier to prime the pump. With a reservoir, you can just fill it up and add a little more water as necessary when the pump pulls water into the tubes. With a T-line you have to balance a funnel and fill it a little at a time (depending on how big the funnel is). If the pump pulls all the water too quickly, you need to turn it off until you fill the funnel some more since you don’t want to run the pump dry.
I honestly don't see how the process is really any different.

Revivalist said:
4. A reservoir is basically the same price as a T-line. A nice reservoir like the Swiftech MCRES-MICRO is about $15. A “T” and a fill port are about $12+$2 = $14 at Danger Den.

5. A reservoir hardly takes more room than a T-line.
Sure.

Revivalist said:
6. There is more water in the loop for better cooling. More water is able to absorb more heat and emit more heat than less water. A reservoir allows there to be more water (without more tubing which of course would mean more restriction).
The first part of this statement is not well thought out. Depending on the size of the reservoir a T line could have just as much water as a small rez. The second part is flat out wrong. A T line using tubing laid out like this "" with the main water flow going through the bottom of the inverted T. The extra tubing at the top is not a part of the normal flow of water and thus does not add more drag; the water is not flowing through the extra tubing at the top.

Revivalist said:
7. It's easier to see the water level of the system at any time. With time, some amount of water evaporates through the tubes and the water level drops. This can be seen easily with a reservoir. With a T-line, you have to inspect all the tubes for air pockets.
I would argue that unless you're using opaque tubing its easier to see the water level with a T line. You just see how much air/ water is in the vertical bit of tubing. You talk about air pockets in the tubes when water levels drop? Why would there be? The Air bubbles would go the top of the T line just as they would in a reservoir and be replaced by extra fluid. The only time air bubbles would be introduced is if the water levels dropped so far that all the extra fluid was used. The exact same thing would happen using a reservoir if the fluid levels dropped so low.


Revivalist said:
8. A reservoir looks cool, especially with UV reactive coolant. (At least in my opinion. :) Example: pic1, pic2)
Personal preference.

After deconstructing your post it seems to me that you think a T line is an inverted T ( ┴ ) with some kind of valve where the — and the | meet, thus not allowing air bubbles to escape or extra fluid into the loop to replace the air. This is not the case. The T is just an open junction typically placed a few inches before the intake on the pump. The flow is coming in on the return and any air bubbles in the liquid simply float up to the top of the T. Look here

And just consider I took the time to go through all this and I’m using a milk jug as a RESIVOUR.
 
My first build had a res, and it was great because the system was almost completely bled moments after first firing it up, but personally I've joined the t-line boat. IMO, it looks more professional and is less risky as far as leaks are concerned (not always true). If you are bent on a res, go for it. Just take the time to double check everything.

(I didn't read the whole thread so if my comments are misplaced I apologize)
 
Reservoir vs. T-line, it's a matter of preference. Pros and cons to both. I started out with a T, but recently switched to a Swifty bay reservoir which I like better. Be careful to get a good quality res though, lots of the cheapies are prone to leaks. Personally, I think a reservoir is a little easier for the beginner. Also, having added coolant capacity is a good thing. The argument that a T-line can hold as much as a res is a little misleading unless you are talking a tiny res. On the other hand, the T-line takes up less space. Six of one and half dozen of the other.
 
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Alright, I think I will probably go with a T-line. I probably wont have the room for a reservoir and I like the look of T-lines better.
 
My vote is for t-line, although you can't really go wrong either way. I would have recommended going with 1/2" Masterkleer tubing because of the price, but the tygon will perform as well or better at a slight premium. Best of luck and upload some pics when you get started!
 
Tygon clouds less than MasterKleer too, so you get that bonus. Too bad I'm too cheap to get Tygon though, so I just stick with MasterKleer.
 
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