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Vendors who will not ship outside the 50 US states

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hafa

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2003
Location
A tiny dot in the middle of the Pacific
This is a continuation of the threadjack here ...

TankGuys said:
It's actually harder than you think :)

There is a fair amount of annoying paperwork to fill out for 'international' orders, especially with FedEx/UPS... they are a nightmare. USPS isn't as bad.

Then, however, packages often get held up in customs for a few weeks, then you get irate e-mails from customers demanding thier package, even though it's not your fault it's being held up in customs.

Then there is the fact that the only real way to track packages is via Global Express Mail (which most customers aren't willing to pay for) so you have no idea where the package is, or when it's going to show up, two things which most customers don't particularly appreciate...not to mention the times it does take the package 5 weeks, but the customer gets jumpy after a week and files a dispute with thier credit card company. On top of all this, you also get people who refuse to pay the import duties/brokerage fees, so the pacakge gets sent back to us and we get double billed for shipping.

So yea, it's a pain, and not a completely simple matter :)


Many suppliers are willing to ship via USPS to our area. Priority air mail services provide low-cost tracking numbers which will show the exact location of the package online.

The reason why some are unwilling is due to exclusive shipping arrangments made with a single carrier. Others just can't be bothered with filling out a single customs form and making a trip to the post office.

The other area where suppliers fail to provide adequate service is in credit card transaction handling. Many providers, including Adobe and Microsoft, are willing to process transactions where the billing address chosen is one which is on file and approved by the financial institution, but not necessarily the primary address. Upon reasonable proof and validation with the financial institution, the supplier will approve the transaction. I had the unfortunate experience the other day where a vendor refused to call the 800 number of my financial institution, simply because it would require picking up the phone.

It's more their loss than mine, as last year I placed over US$70K in orders with one supplier alone. It's a grave inconvenience, however, in those instances where a given supplier is the sole distributor of a given item.

Tankguys, I do feel your pain about the irrational occasional customer who is either too lazy or ignorant to check with their local customs office, but I doubt that this is often an issue with US territories or Canada.

Which brings us to the definition of 'international'... Shipping a package to the US territories or Canada is far different from shipping one to say, Turkmenistan or Myanmar. A small amount of effort on the part of most suppliers to identify areas where shipping is easily facilitated by USPS (such as Micronesia, Canada, Samoa, etc...) would likely bring a good deal of business as well as generating some good will. :santa2:
 
hafa said:
This is a continuation of the threadjack here ...

Many suppliers are willing to ship via USPS to our area. Priority air mail services provide low-cost tracking numbers which will show the exact location of the package online.

Really? I didn't think any of the priority mail options allowed tracking beyond the US border. Our local post office told us only GXM supported tracking beyond the border, but maybe I should look into this. The explaination we got was that once the package leaves the USPS hands, they can't track it anymore...

hafa said:
The reason why some are unwilling is due to exclusive shipping arrangments made with a single carrier. Others just can't be bothered with filling out a single customs form and making a trip to the post office.

Yea, international via USPS isn't that bad. Trying to do FedEx/UPS though is a nightmare. With our margins being sooooo small, the effort and time it takes to fill out all the stupid paperwork makes it uneconomical to even bother. Luckily though, USPS is just that single form, and not nearly as lengthy.

hafa said:
The other area where suppliers fail to provide adequate service is in credit card transaction handling. Many providers, including Adobe and Microsoft, are willing to process transactions where the billing address chosen is one which is on file and approved by the financial institution, but not necessarily the primary address. Upon reasonable proof and validation with the financial institution, the supplier will approve the transaction. I had the unfortunate experience the other day where a vendor refused to call the 800 number of my financial institution, simply because it would require picking up the phone.

It's funny; since getting into this business, it has revealed a whole new perspective on this stuff.

We do offer to ship to placed other than the billing address, with the stipulation that we have to call the bank and verify that the address is at least on file. It's not a big deal.

The problem, however, is that doing this STILL opens us up to fraud. I can't go into exact details for obvious reasons, but when we ship anywhere but the billing address - no matter what addresses the person has on file - we run a big risk. When you consider the high ticket value of the items we sell, and the comparatively low profit margins, any risk is a big risk. As an example, we got burned for about $2700 from one person a few months ago, and we followed EVERYTHING to the letter (Shipped to a 'verified' address, they passed the verified by Visa, CVV check, everything). Now when you consider that my 'profit' on the average order is barely $5... it will take >500 orders just to break even.

It's a tough spot to be in as a retailer, because customers don't like when things are difficult. The verification process annoys them. Not shipping to alternate addresses annoys them. Charging more to try and make up for fraud losses annoys them... it's kind of a lose-lose situation for us, as there is just not any good solution.

hafa said:
It's more their loss than mine...

On your order, yea. Though as I mentioned above, sometimes the bigger picture is that it's better for us NOT to offer any special shipping options.

I get a *lot* of people from Europe asking me if I'll sell stuff to them. On the one hand, it's really tempting. It would open up a significant market, and we'd be one of the only companies doing it. Sounds good....

BUT... again with the fraud :) If even 1% of 'international' orders were fraudulent, we lose. So it's one of those cost/benefit things. Until the credit card companies start cutting us retailers some slack, we've got to stick by very strict and annoying rules to keep from losing our shirts.

In your case though, shipping to the Marianas is different than shipping to the Czech republic like you said, I'm just expanding on the point :)

hafa said:
Tankguys, I do feel your pain about the irrational occasional customer who is either too lazy or ignorant to check with their local customs office, but I doubt that this is often an issue with US territories or Canada.

Luckily, it doesn't happen a lot, yet anyway. It's happened a few times though, enough where I worry about it becoming a problem.

hafa said:
Which brings us to the definition of 'international'... Shipping a package to the US territories or Canada is far different from shipping one to say, Turkmenistan or Myanmar. A small amount of effort on the part of most suppliers to identify areas where shipping is easily facilitated by USPS (such as Micronesia, Canada, Samoa, etc...) would likely bring a good deal of business as well as generating some good will. :santa2:

:thup: We just have to be careful in so doing, to make sure we don't run too many risks as to outweight the benefits.



Fraud is just such a nightmare for this business. I don't think the average customer realizes how much it hurts retailers; and thus how much it costs the average buyer in higher prices. We have to tack on $3+ on every product just to come close to covering loses.

Interestingly, when some jerk steals from us via credit card fraud, then disputes the charge, we not only lose the product, but the CC company takes the money back away from us, AND charges us a $30 "chargeback" fee. Nothing like insult to injury, charging us for being victims of fraud :rolleyes:

It's a shame anyway, it's caused us to be a LOT more careful. I've pretty much plugged every fraud hole there is, by rather unfortunately learning from experience. This is, however, why us companies have pretty stringent shipping and billing policies. Otherwise, the jerks of the world would drive us out of business pretty quick.
 
Thank you very much for the well-considered and thoughtful reply, TankGuys.

tankguys said:
I didn't think any of the priority mail options allowed tracking beyond the US border.

When sending from here to the states, the insurance number may be used for tracking purposes; I would assume that it would work the other way around.


I appreciate that you've taken the time to reply and I did notice that you list the CNMI on your address options and will ship via USPS.

I've added you to my distributor listing and will be checking your site whenever need arises.
 
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I agree totally with Tankguys on everything stated.. The credit card system for merchants is a fast road to the poor house if you are not careful.. $30 chargeback fee, Yikes we pay $15 !!!

There is also the problem of warranties, buying from outside of your own country would be classed as grey market products, not sure how the likes of AMD/Intel/Asus etc in Europe would handle warranties, I would bet they wouldn't.
 
TankGuys said:
Really? I didn't think any of the priority mail options allowed tracking beyond the US border. Our local post office told us only GXM supported tracking beyond the border, but maybe I should look into this. The explaination we got was that once the package leaves the USPS hands, they can't track it anymore...

I asked this question at the post office and what you stated is the way it is.
 
jabtek said:
I agree totally with Tankguys on everything stated.. The credit card system for merchants is a fast road to the poor house if you are not careful.. $30 chargeback fee, Yikes we pay $15 !!!

Yea, it's a steep chargeback fee, but all the other fees are quite good. It seems that with every merchant account, there trade offs :)
 
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