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View Full Version : What's the best antifreeze/coolant?


Herr Rogers
12-25-05, 06:28 PM
I hear a lot of people say water wetter, then I hear it makes your hose cloudy. I have prestone coolant/anti-freeze in my garage, but what is the BEST?

RDWest2005
12-25-05, 06:46 PM
water wetter gooked my tubes up baby sh*t looking green - i added some of it to the green uv liquid from TT with tap water - it may be ok with just water - i dunno - it fooooked mine up bad.

I'm running GM DEX COOL Prestone(orange stuff)
my 840 3.2@4.0 only climbed 4 degrees all through 3dmark05

Herr Rogers
12-25-05, 07:00 PM
water wetter gooked my tubes up baby sh*t looking green - i added some of it to the green uv liquid from TT with tap water - it may be ok with just water - i dunno - it fooooked mine up bad.

I'm running GM DEX COOL Prestone(orange stuff)
my 840 3.2@4.0 only climbed 4 degrees all through 3dmark05

That's what I have in the garage, the orange stuff. But what is the best?

OCS911
12-25-05, 07:07 PM
there is NO the best, it just your choice of antifreeze/coolant you want but Zerex Super Coolant is recommended, at least it's not stink like Water Wetter

RDWest2005
12-25-05, 07:09 PM
The DEX COOL is was told to me its the best for late model cars with alunimum blocks/heads/ and plastic intakes etc - and runs the coolest

only other alternative would maybe be racing antifreeze like they run in nascar

That would be my guess

~RD

citronym
12-25-05, 07:55 PM
All you need to consider for a coolant are the following: an anti-corrosive, an anti-algae agent of some sort, and some sort of surfactant if you desire. Antifreeze is a good anti-corrosive, iodine will take care of the algae, and Zerex Super Coolant or Water Wetter are ok surfactants. WW will cloud your tubes and its smelly. (I believe they both inhibit corrosion as well, possibly offsetting the need of antifreeze all together)

rebelranger
12-25-05, 11:28 PM
I vote for Zerex Super Racing Coolant. Had not problems at all!
WW really has a strange odor......
I heard windshield washer solution (anti freeze type) :shrug: is good... Never tried it.....

Joe Camel
12-25-05, 11:54 PM
another vote for Zerex Super Racing Coolant.
turns water pink though.
ive never used anything else; distilled water and (10% mix) Zerex Super Racing Coolant.

i wanted to use hy-per lube but couldnt find any places in Ohio that even knew what it was... :(

PS this is what hy-per lube looks like: http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=4164926&postcount=131

-------

EDIT:

i PMed with krag and he said that Hy-per Lube is ViperJohn's preferred coolant additive. (and that VJ sent it along with the custom cooler he made for krag)

VJ KNOWS a thing or two about cooling, so count that as 1 BIG vote for Hy-per Lube ;)

Herr Rogers
12-26-05, 03:39 PM
So you don't need iodine in your loop? All I need is anti-freeze/coolant and distilled water? I will go to the store and see if they have zerex or hy-per lube.

Herr Rogers
12-26-05, 06:49 PM
Bumpar00

Joe Camel
12-26-05, 07:49 PM
*ive* never had any problem with just those two but i have seen some nasty things growing in other peoples loops... :shrug:

Herr Rogers
12-26-05, 08:00 PM
*ive* never had any problem with just those two but i have seen some nasty things growing in other peoples loops... :shrug:

So just to be safe I should get some iodine then? 3 drops is all it takes?

1-computer-man
12-26-05, 09:04 PM
I set my system up 3 YEARS ago. Radiator pump & reserivoir are outside the case. Cpu and gpu in the same loop. Water Wetter, Distilled water and a touch of rubbing alcohol. Have never had growth in the loop. No fans. Cannot get the temps to go above 39 Degrees Centigrade. Computer has never even glitched in that time. Athlon 2.4 running windows 2000. :santa:

citronym
12-26-05, 10:04 PM
So just to be safe I should get some iodine then? 3 drops is all it takes?
By using some iodine you are def playing it safe, I've never heard of one problem with using it in your loop. I haven't used it, and I've also never had algae, but I plan to use some when I rebuild my loop.

voigts
12-27-05, 12:18 AM
I use a few drops of iodine just to be on the safe side. It works like a charm. I personally like my blue VW antifreeze (or also called Pentosin). I tried Zerex once and it clouded the tubing in like 3 days. I have used blue VW for about 9 months and am very pleased with it.

EagleClaw
12-27-05, 09:34 AM
I was going to go clear but if I can go blue, nice.

Is 1:10 Solution general for all Antifreeze/DI Water?

I see a few web stores have it for sale around $15 shipped, I'll have to check a few local auto stores unless anyone knows of a better place.




I use a few drops of iodine just to be on the safe side. It works like a charm. I personally like my blue VW antifreeze (or also called Pentosin). I tried Zerex once and it clouded the tubing in like 3 days. I have used blue VW for about 9 months and am very pleased with it.

Bugsmasher
12-27-05, 10:25 AM
I *think* one of the reasons some people have problems with growth when using Anti-Freeze + distilled water is that it depends on what type of anti-freeze is being used. Propylene Glycol (non or low-tox) antifreeze will not control growth as well as the Ethylene Glycol based antifreeze. There are other types out there but I am unsure as to the relative toxicity of the other alternates. Another possible factor would be how much antifreeze is actually used in the solution.

Iodine is cheap and does a good job. Probably better to avoid possible problems and go ahead and use some.

voigts
12-27-05, 11:01 AM
A whole gallon of the blue VW antifreeze is about $30 at the dealer. I just went ahead and bought a whole gallon as it made more sense to me than spending $15 ordering it for just a quart. I couldn't find this stuff locally in my area anywhere.

Bugsmasher
12-27-05, 02:03 PM
Pentosin G11 at Pap-parts (http://pap-parts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G%20001%20100)

$8 plus shipping for the 1.5 liter if you dont mind ordering online and the wait that entails.

Dfi-Boy
12-28-05, 08:55 AM
hum i did a bout a 50/50 mix i have to redo that my temps went to hell after that mistake and im not shure why?

im running 3 loops and my cpu loop will max out at 31c idle @28c
but sli loop is what im worried about 2 6800gts used to run 32c idle and 35c under load now its like 37c idle and 45c under load

im not sure what my HDD loop is running at right now but i know its running better than what it was

tsuehpsyde
12-28-05, 09:36 AM
Hmm, looks like I'll have to pickup some Iodine today and drop a few drops in my loop. :)

tsuehpsyde
12-28-05, 12:17 PM
Hey, check out what I found. :cool:

http://www.sourcekills.com/albums/tsuehpsyde/DSC00584.sized.jpg

Clear Iodine for the win! Got a few drops in my loop now.

Otter
12-28-05, 12:24 PM
I was going to go clear but if I can go blue, nice.

Is 1:10 Solution general for all Antifreeze/DI Water?
Yes, for all glycol-based antifreeze, though "racing coolant" and other non-antifreeze additives will have different ratios. If you have only copper and brass in your loop, you can probably get by with 5% antifreeze instead of 10%.

Otter
12-28-05, 12:29 PM
hum i did a bout a 50/50 mix i have to redo that my temps went to hell after that mistake and im not shure why?
Because antifreeze is too thick. The pump has a much harder time forcing antifreeze through the loop than plain water, hence the flow rate drops, and the temps go up.

Herr Rogers
12-28-05, 02:02 PM
What material are the fittings that come with the BIX and most reservoirs? They look like silverish. BTW, I am using brass, and these silvery barbs only. I'm going to do 15% anti-freeze just in case.

Joe Camel
12-28-05, 03:42 PM
Because antifreeze is too thick. The pump has a much harder time forcing antifreeze through the loop than plain water, hence the flow rate drops, and the temps go up.
although that may play into the problem some too, the real reason is that antifreeze is worse @ moving heat than water. (there is really NO better cooling fluid than straight-up H2O!)

firstdegreeab
12-28-05, 03:45 PM
It's a proven fact that any type of antifreeze will lower the thermal conductivity of the cooling system. The only reason why you might ever want antifreeze in your system is if you are experiencing below freezing temps. hence the name anti-freeze. From personal experience in my motorcycles, I know that water wetter for certain has dropped my operating temp a couple degrees. I don't use antifreeze in any of my bikes because i know they will never see below freezing temps. Just distilled H2O and the correct ratio of water wetter. I know liquid cooling for computer will never see the temps that a water cooled engine sees, so algea growth is a factor. Has anyone toyed with Distilled H2O, water wetter, and a drop or two of iodine?

Joe Camel
12-28-05, 04:40 PM
WOW, awesome 7th post, firstdegreeab!!!

welcome to the forums!!! (if you havent already been...)



your dead on! performance wise, there is NO reason to use antifreeze!

-but-

its the easiest anti corrosion additive... and thats why its used in PC cooling.


since ww (and hy-per / Zerex above) have the corrosion protection (and supposedly lower water tension in the fluid) but arnt freeze resistant or thick, *i* think youve come up with an excellent fluid mix!

Herr Rogers
12-28-05, 05:59 PM
I'm trying to figure out if you are being sarcastic Joe Camel. Didn't we already know what firstdegreeab wrote?

firstdegreeab
12-28-05, 06:35 PM
I hadn't heard of Valvolines super coolant or hyper lubes super coolant, they sound like pretty good stuff.

outhouse
12-28-05, 11:08 PM
each of our rigs are set up different and so are the needs

but to answer the ? ive been with dex-cool gm and its sweet 5 years or 150,000 miles lol the vw stuff is also good.

i would not use the stuff but when i had a mc350 pump that would work on and off i used the dex-cool and it fixed the problem so i still use it and my tubes are clean after a year or so as well the copper still looks good inside the loop

Senater_Cache
12-29-05, 12:36 AM
If you have mixed metals use 10% Zerex Antifreeze and 87% Distilled and 3% perf. enhancer (like WW but stay awy from WW IMO). If you have straight Copper reduce the antifreeze to 5% and up the water to 92%.
If all this is too complicated...use HydriX.

tsuehpsyde
12-29-05, 08:52 AM
Someone over at the [H] mentioned that using Iodine can cause a white buildup in your loop. Any truth to it? I'm watching out for it, but I plan on switching out my loop mixture anyway in a week or two. Just don't wanna have to alcohol bath any parts.

citronym
12-29-05, 10:37 AM
Someone over at the [H] mentioned that using Iodine can cause a white buildup in your loop. Any truth to it? I'm watching out for it, but I plan on switching out my loop mixture anyway in a week or two. Just don't wanna have to alcohol bath any parts.
From what I've been reading, just about anything can cause that white buildup in your system. Especially Water Wetter. Iodine may cause it, but I've never heard of it specifically causing it, and at any rate I doubt a few drops of iodine would cause the buildup as fast as a percentage of antifreeze or other additives would. I'm still going with the 5% antifreeze and some iodine (for all copper).

I've also gathered that some tubing clouds faster or easier than other tubing. The cheap HD tubing is probably the worst.

blide30
12-29-05, 10:41 AM
This is what I'm using not sure of all the ingridients but it seems to work fine. The only thing is I have noticed some evaporation? I figured it would just last forever like antifreeze....

http://www.thermaltake.com/images/watercooling/cl-w0044/cl-w0044.jpg


P/N CL-W0044
UV Sensitive YES
Major Material Ethylene Glycol
Capacity 500 cc

nikhsub1
12-29-05, 11:27 AM
I use Hy-Per Lube, I have for years. Water Wetter should IMO not be used ever. It will muck up the system with a funk that will turn brown. In regards to the whitening of the tubing, I have found this to be releated to the type of tubing used. Masterkleer, vinyl, clearflex will all get a white film quickly no matter what is used in the loop. There is a discussion over at procooling here (http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=12567). I have found Tygon to be much more resistant to the clouding, yeah it costs more but I won't use anything else. Here are a couple of pics, one with Clearflex and one with tygon.

Here is Clearflex after about 3 months:

http://www.anonforums.com/builds/blackcube/rd30/moboside2.jpg

Tygon after about 3 months:

http://www.anonforums.com/builds/blackcube/shrouds/shroud3.jpg

citronym
12-29-05, 11:48 AM
ICK, that white stuff is evil. I went with MasterKleer, I may reconsider and try the Tygon just because of the cloud resistance. Otherwise it just wasn't cost effective IMO, I'm def gonna think about it.

EagleClaw
12-29-05, 11:49 AM
Off topic: Very nice setup you have , so clean...Nice job

I will be setting up mine over the next few weeks and I am going to use Pentosin and a few drops of Iodine with distilled.

Otter
12-29-05, 04:46 PM
although that may play into the problem some too, the real reason is that antifreeze is worse @ moving heat than water. (there is really NO better cooling fluid than straight-up H2O!)
Yep, that too. Nothing beats H2O.

nogard666
02-17-10, 08:08 PM
What about glycol being very corrosive to some of the glues used in acrylic reservoirs? I know the Swiftech reservoir I have specifically says if a coolant with glycol is used in it it will nullify the warranty due to the corrosive effects of the glycol on the glue used to hold the reservoir together, even with anti-corrosive agents added.

hokiealumnus
02-17-10, 08:40 PM
Holy thread dig...this beats the other thread by a year!

Anyway, there is no reason to run glycol unless you're using it for one of two reasons: 1. to run at or below 0C or 2. if you have mixed-metals in your loop (i.e. aluminum & copper). Barring those reasons, there isn't any reason to even consider it. Run straight distilled water + either PT Nuke PHN or a silver kill coil. Best cooling you can get...and cheap too! :)

Conumdrum
02-17-10, 09:17 PM
Wow, the guy should get a prize!

Anyhoo, yep, hokie said it well.

If your planning to run sub freezing temps then VW or Toyota antifreeze is the better purer stuff. I don't know a lot about sub freezing cooling, just what others use.

QuietIce
02-17-10, 09:18 PM
Holy thread dig...this beats the other thread by a year!

Anyway, there is no reason to run glycol unless you're using it for one of two reasons: 1. to run at or below 0C or 2. if you have mixed-metals in your loop (i.e. aluminum & copper). Barring those reasons, there isn't any reason to even consider it. Run straight distilled water + either PT Nuke PHN or a silver kill coil. Best cooling you can get...and cheap too! :) LOL! I was thinking the same thing!

When I first started reading this thread I was trying to figure out why anyone was still using anti-freeze at all. Then when I saw Joe Camel I realized. :screwy:


My preferred mix is 1 gallon H2O, 4 drops of iodine @ 10% (aka Betadyne and double that if using the normal 5% stuff), and 8 drops of algaecide. The algaecide depends on what you get - there are a wide variety available at any store with fish supplies, just follow the directions and don't worry about reapplications.

PT Nuke is also great stuff from what I've heard though at this point if I spent money for anything except water I'd buy a kill coil or better yet a couple of those silver barbs they have out now ... :)

nogard666
02-18-10, 11:21 AM
I found this thread doing a general search for Hy-per Lube Super Coolant.

Well, I do not plan on super cooling my PC system. I am just looking for an additive that will reduce the corrosive value of straight distilled water that may also help it cool better. My system is pretty much all anodized aluminum, but the water block (Zalman WB5+) is a copper block that is gold plated.

What I am considering adding is Hy-per Lube Super Coolant, which has no glycol in it and is readily available at O'Reilly Auto and now Wal-Mart. For anti-algae and such I have already been using iodine and an algae killer. In my searching I have found that products like Hy-per Lube and WW will cool slightly better then even straight water, but will greatly reduce its corrosive effects on all metal and plastic parts in the loop.

jcw122
02-18-10, 05:37 PM
QuietIce, why isn't anti-freeze used anymore? What's the "disadvantage" over PT nuke and the like?

thorilan
02-18-10, 06:55 PM
if your system is all copper and brass no need to go above 3%
personally i like iodine too.

Boulard83
02-18-10, 07:22 PM
DIstilled + PTnuke = Victory

Spawn-Inc
02-18-10, 07:26 PM
QuietIce, why isn't anti-freeze used anymore? What's the "disadvantage" over PT nuke and the like?

the more things added to distilled water, the less efficient it becomes at transferring heat.

as well there is no corrosion issues with copper, brass, silver, gold, chrome, nickel metals in a loop so why add something you don't need?

QuietIce
02-18-10, 08:08 PM
QuietIce, why isn't anti-freeze used anymore? What's the "disadvantage" over PT nuke and the like? It's very simple - (in our price range) nothing transfers heat better than straight H2O so any extras you add to your loop is decreasing it's effeciency.

In addition, anti-freeze is more viscious (thicker) than water, which slows down your pump a small amount and increases resistance in the tubing as well - but these are small effects compared to the heat transfer loss you get ...

jcw122
02-19-10, 09:27 AM
Ahh interesting...thanks for the information guys.

muddocktor
02-19-10, 09:40 AM
I can see why he might want some anti-corrosive in his system, since he states that his loop is primarily anodized aluminum. If the anodized coating has the slightest scratch exposing the aluminum to the coolant, you will get corrosion started. That was one reason why the Swiftech Apogee GTX waterblocks weren't as popular as the Fuzion waterblocks due to the use of an anodized aluminum top. They finally did start selling a copper replacement top for it but then the price was too high.

As for the best coolant to use, I can't help you there. I stay away from aluminum in any of the loops I build and just use silver and/or PT Nuke with distilled water.

nogard666
02-19-10, 09:39 PM
Well. If I do use something like hy-per lube what % mix should I use with straight distilled water? Also, due to some tube sizing issues the Zalman WB5+ had only 3/8" barbs so I needed to get some brass down sizers to make my 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD tubing fit as everything else in my loop is full 1/2" ID tube size. So now I have anodized aluminum, normal aluminum, brass, copper, and gold in my system. On a side note, my radiator is out of an old 40,000BUT window AC unit. It is roughly 7 inches wide, 20 inches long, 4 inches thick, has 3/4" feed tubes, and 4x 3/8" loops that run through it. I have a 220mm fan strapped to it to force air flow through it.

thorilan
02-20-10, 12:44 AM
there is a very good chance that your rad is not anodized and is just plain aluminum if you pulled it from an AC unit.

QuietIce
02-20-10, 03:33 AM
Well. If I do use something like hy-per lube what % mix should I use with straight distilled water? Also, due to some tube sizing issues the Zalman WB5+ had only 3/8" barbs so I needed to get some brass down sizers to make my 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD tubing fit as everything else in my loop is full 1/2" ID tube size. So now I have anodized aluminum, normal aluminum, brass, copper, and gold in my system. On a side note, my radiator is out of an old 40,000BUT window AC unit. It is roughly 7 inches wide, 20 inches long, 4 inches thick, has 3/4" feed tubes, and 4x 3/8" loops that run through it. I have a 220mm fan strapped to it to force air flow through it. I could be wrong but I don't think that stuff is designed as an anti-corrosive. In addition to the Hy-per Lube you'll also need to use anti-freeze. Most people recommend at least a 10% anti-freeze mix so you'll need about a pint of anti-freeze for one gallon of water.

For the Hy-per Lube you should follow the label recommendations. It should say how much per gallon or something to that effect ...

boucher91
02-20-10, 10:22 AM
have tried both distilled water+biocide and also distilled water+hydrix...
after bout 3 months the water hydrix solution wasnt cooling as well as it was the first month..the liquid in the loop was nasty kinda goo gunk was less than 5% ratio..
cleaned that c%$* out took a while..
then went to distiled water and a few drops of biocide
the water biocide combo hasnt let me down yet... almost a year now...very nice constant temps and the loop is still pristeen clean...

nogard666
02-20-10, 05:31 PM
Actually that is one of the big promotions of hy-per lube super coolant. It is designed to both make straight water cool better, and to be a major anti-corrosive. The 3 claims it makes are reduces engine temperature, prevents overheating, and provides maximum corrosion protection.

Conumdrum
02-20-10, 06:48 PM
hy-per will probably be fine as a PC WC additive. It's made for cars and higher temps, but it has the properties you need I guess. Just give it a try and let us know in 3-6 months?

QuietIce
02-20-10, 11:09 PM
Actually that is one of the big promotions of hy-per lube super coolant. It is designed to both make straight water cool better, and to be a major anti-corrosive. The 3 claims it makes are reduces engine temperature, prevents overheating, and provides maximum corrosion protection. I stand corrected ... :)

rge
02-21-10, 07:34 AM
Actually that is one of the big promotions of hy-per lube super coolant. It is designed to both make straight water cool better, and to be a major anti-corrosive. The 3 claims it makes are reduces engine temperature, prevents overheating, and provides maximum corrosion protection.

hy-per lub or water wetter like many other engine additives will decrease an engines temperature vs pure water by changing boiling properties of water and reducing surface tension of water, both which reduces vapor bubbles so better water to metal contact, but only when talking about temps near 100C (boiling) which occur in some parts of engines. So even though the additives decrease the thermal conductivity of water, that is outweighed when operating near boiling temps where reducing vapor bubble effects more than compensates.

But water temp in a computer never gets anywhere near 100C or temps where vapor bubbles occur, so all you get is the decrease thermal conductivity, so it will negatively affect temps in computer.

nogard666
02-22-10, 09:43 AM
A small drop in temps is fine as when I ran air cooled I idled around 50-55C and under load my MB would shut down my PC due to over heating, but once I changed to liquid cooling my idle temps dropped to almost consistently 30C with max temps of 48C after running Prime95 for 4 hours straight on the torture test. That was with my old water block which was not meant for a socket AM3 system and was rigged to fit and was not quite centered on the processor. Now I have a water block that is made for my system and is properly centered. I have also increase all of my tubing to full 1/2" ID with the exception of the water block itself, which still only has 3/8" barbs (how Zalman can claim the WB5+ has better flow rate then the WB3+ even though it has the same size barbs is beyond my knowledge). So even if I get a few extra C from having the hy-per lube in the system I think I have some leeway on my operating temps. Really all I need it for is the anti-corrosive properties. And as stated before, I can't use a glycol based anti-freeze because while it may reduce corrosion in metals, according to Swiftech (the makers of my reservoir) it will increase the corrosion in the glues they used in the manufacturing of the reservoir and will void its warranty.

What I am still looking for is the % to use in my system. The directions say use the first 16oz bottle for a system that is no less then 12 running quarts, and up to 20 running quarts, then for every quart over 20 to add more coolant at a 1:1 ratio.

rge
02-22-10, 12:00 PM
16 ounces is 1/2 a quart, so 1/2 quart in 12 to 20 quarts is between 4% and 2.5%.

When they tested it (link), they used 4% hyperlube. But looks like 3-4%, which is adding ~4 to 5 ounces per gallon distilled.
http://www.hyperlube.com/docs/DYNOJET%20Test%20Results.pdf

nogard666
02-22-10, 04:06 PM
Thank you. So as my system is roughly 1/2 gallon loop I should add roughly 2oz to the mix.

QuietIce
02-22-10, 06:39 PM
Just keep in mind when we use anything like this it's not for maximum cooling, it's for corrosion protection. I've never heard of anything less than 5% recommended for anti-freeze and I can't imagine HyperLube being any better at corrosion protection that anti-freeze. Still, 5% is only 3 oz for 1/2 gallon of water ...

rcillig
02-22-10, 07:22 PM
I'm redoing my loop and had some gunk I've never had before in my loop this time, all the hoses are cloudy or filmed over like.... I think I was running straight distilled as I put it together in the Holidays and cant remember adding anything else into it. I had some algae stuff before but cant remember if I was out of it or used the last when I build that loop.

Just glad I decided to redo it and found it before something was ruined.

rge
02-22-10, 09:15 PM
Just keep in mind when we use anything like this it's not for maximum cooling, it's for corrosion protection. I've never heard of anything less than 5% recommended for anti-freeze and I can't imagine HyperLube being any better at corrosion protection that anti-freeze. Still, 5% is only 3 oz for 1/2 gallon of water ...


"Glycol based systems, using Propylene Glycol or Ethylene Glycol, without any corrosion inhibitors or additives, are more corrosive and aggressive than water alone."
http://www.glycol.ca/inhibitors/inhi...nhibitors.html

It is the 5-10 corrosion inhibitors (zinc oxide, nitrites, chromates, hexamines, etc) that are in all commercial antifreezes that prevent corrosion, and they are typically added in very small quantities, many in ppm.

Cars require antifreeze in concentration of 15-50%, so corrosion inhibitors are added in an amount to be effective at that concentration, so using antifreeze to get the necessary minute amounts of corrosion inhibitors is a very inefficient way of getting them, just that antifreeze is readily available.

Hyperlube is used in concentration of 4%, so corrosion inhibitors are added at higher concentration to be effective in that dilution. hyperlube corrosion and temp testing http://www.hyperlube.com/docs/Temperature%20Reduction%20Test.pdf

If all you want is corrosion inhibition, both antifreeze and hyperlube are inefficent, just hyperlube less so only need 4% vs 15+% antifreeze. What you really want is the minute amounts of chemicals and be left with 99+% distilled with just 5-10 corrosion inhibitors in their typical minute concentration...but good luck in finding them, I tried for 2 years while using black pearl 8800 gtx (aluminum block), but gave up.