Older P4 not performing well

[Avg]

I was at my neighboors this afternoon and although she has a nice system, it runs very slow even after running a registry cleaner and adaware, it was still slow. It's a dell that has p4 2.0ghz 400mhz fsb and 256mb ram, probably a 5400rpm hdd, I suggested getting more ram although 256mb should be enough in my opinion, but there was about only 30mb available at most times according to the task manager. So before I get the ram what do you thing could be causing the poor performance.

[Know Nuttin]

lack of ram and a 5400RPM hard drive would be my first guesses. Other than that, Windows could just need a reinstall.

[Avg]

I don't think a fresh installation is worth it, I think the last time I fixed her computer I did a fresh install and it was still slow, I've seen myself that a hdd can seriouly degrade the performance, but only when the task needs to access the hdd. Could it be that the 400fsb is crippling this system?

edit: crap am I going crazy or did I post this in the AMD section?

[Reefa_Madness]

P4 question in the AMD section...perhaps you might get better responses if this was in the right section.

[Shelnutt2]

I vote for ram. I had a celeron 2.4 (yeah its 400 MHZ faster but 1/4 the cache). Windows was pretty snappy until I would trey to multi task. So 400FSB isn't your problem. It has to be the ram. Get her a 512 DC kit. You will notice the difference with DC verses SC.


LOL, just noticed also that its in the AMD section.

[Avg]

P4 question in the AMD section...perhaps you might get better responses if this was in the right section.

Just noticed I posted in the wrong section when I tried looking for it there, I'm contacting a mod right now to see if I can get it moved.

[Know Nuttin]

It's hard to say if that CPU will be on a board that supports dual channel to begin with. Doublecheck the chipset that is on the board.

[cw823]

Just noticed I posted in the wrong section when I tried looking for it there, I'm contacting a mod right now to see if I can get it moved.


It's okay everyone, he's new. :D

[Avg]

thanks cw823

I don't think Rambus ram could be run in dual channel, I believe it needs to have two matching sticks to run at all, if so then it's no as simple as just getting another stick of ram and adding to the ones already there I'll have to get twice the ram and replace the ones that came with it.

[cw823]

thanks cw823

I don't think Rambus ram could be run in dual channel, I believe it needs to have two matching sticks to run at all, if so then it's no as simple as just getting another stick of ram and adding to the ones already there I'll have to get twice the ram and replace the ones that came with it.


It's my understanding some of the Dell systems with RAMBUS and only 2 RAM slots do NOT require matching sticks. What is in it right now? How many total/available slots?

[fAlCoNNiAn]

i thought rambus ram could run in dual channel... i might be wrong though.

[RJARRRPCGP]

thanks cw823
I believe it needs to have two matching sticks to run at all

That sounds just like the old school times, with SIMMs. If you didn't insert at least 2 of them, the motherboard would fail to POST and bleep repeatedly!

[Avg]

I didn't open the case to look I just downloaded cpu-z and checked what ram it was using, I was thinking that I could get a inexpensive mobo that supports DDR and that would still cost less then one stick of 256mb of RDRAM.

By the way I'm only thinking it needs two sticks because I was at newegg, and in the ram's description it said that I needed two matching sticks to function properly.

[cw823]

That sounds just like the old school times, with SIMMs. If you didn't insert at least 2 of them, the motherboard would fail to POST and bleep repeatedly!

Precisely the reason I stayed away from the RAMBUS craze when it first came out; funny thing is, it still cost you an arm and a leg.

On the original question, I would DEFINITELY add RAM first.....would be my first guess towards a more permanent solution.

[Shelnutt2]

If you want a cheap new board, get someting with 845 chipset. Personally I loved (& now my sister loves) the SOYO P4I 845PE V1.0 . It offer supprot for 800 FSB northwoods and when I bought it, it was only $30. It only supports northwoods though.

SY-P4I 845PE V1.0 (http://www.soyousa.com/products/proddesc.php?id=241)

[Reefa_Madness]

I have recently purchased RAMBUS sticks for a co-worker on the Anantech forums reasonably priced...it won't cost you (her) as much as you think if you don't mind going with "previously tested" sticks.

You do need to be sure of what you need so opening the case and getting the info off the stick that is there now, plus seeing how many available slots you have would be worthwhile.

What I did for my co-worker was to google for the stick that she had, then find comparable sticks and then searched for those in the For Sale sections of various forums, including here at OCF.

[Know Nuttin]

You don't need 2 sticks but you do need termination modules if only 1 slot is populated. It's much like the older SMP setups for Slot 1.

RDRAM can be run in dual channel. I believe the 850E chipset did this.

[Avg]

I'll have to wait until tomorrow to check it out, but it seems to be unanimous that the ram is culprit.

[bixit_62]

you need more ram, and a faster HDD
if you can re-install, re-install, 7200rpm drives can be had for cheap these days, also, it'd most likely have to be ide, meaning its just that much more cheaper!

[BigDan3131]

Dell is Dell specific,the mobo and psu are dell only items. Alot of the slowdown in a Dell comes from all the extras they load onto them before shipping. Remove all programs she doesnt use, if it has norton or mcaffee get rid of them for AVG Free and Zone Alarm Firewall. Both are free and take way less to use then other two do. I pulled alot of junk out I never planned to use and that made a big diff.

[hUMANbEATbOX]

ot, but bigdan, you got pics of your case?

[larva]

Firstly, if it's a P4 with Rambus, it's definitely dual channnel. The only single channel RDRAM chipset was the original P3 one, i820. i840 and all P4-supporting RDRAM chipsets are dual channel.

Secondly, the main culprit here is hard drive speed. What most users notice as the "speed" of their computers is almost entirely the effectiveness of the hard drive subsystem. Your drive is slow, and that is most of the problem. With new 7200rpm drives being so cheap and so much faster than what you have, it's bound to seem a good value in this case.

Thirdly, three things can exaserbate this condition. First (and always, in these cases) is software. A fresh windows install most times does as much for the effective speed as the new drive (you'll have to excuse me if you've tried this already). Second is the ram. Shortage of ram will make the machine lay on the hard drive, and when the primary problem is that that drive is slow, it gets painfully slow. 256MB is a pretty limiting these days, especially if the windows is not fresh and clean. Going to 512MB will be sufficient in most of these cases, especially if implemented in tandem with a new hard drive and a fresh windows install. Third is cpu power. A certain degree of CPU power is required to effectively get data on and off any particular hard disk, but you have to have really grievous shortcoming to cause symptons like these. Your CPU power is adequate for the task at hand, you just need to fix the windows, hard drive, and system memory.

If you decide to go to a DDR board rather than pursue additional RDRAM, by all means get something with an 865 chipset. You can't save much by going with something 845-based, and you sacrifice dual-channel memory, SATA ports, USB ports, CPU support, and improved integrated graphics (should that be an issue for your application). i865G chipset boards like the Asus P4P800-VM are ideal for these applications, and although not really cheap they are really good and still available new. If you want to go cheaper, do, but get something i865-based.

[Avg]

Here is what I think I'll do, I have a new hdd coming in for another customer so I'll put that drive on her computer and see how much it helps to improve performance and if it is satisfactory I will get her a new hdd, if not then I'll look into replacing the ram. The thing is that although a hdd is cheaper but I will also have to charge for either a fresh install or a cloning the hdd, which brings the price close to the price of the ram.

[larva]

Here is what I think I'll do, I have a new hdd coming in for another customer so I'll put that drive on her computer and see how much it helps to improve performance and if it is satisfactory I will get her a new hdd, if not then I'll look into replacing the ram. The thing is that although a hdd is cheaper but I will also have to charge for either a fresh install or a cloning the hdd, which brings the price close to the price of the ram.Sounds like a plan, changing things and noting the effect is the primary way you learn. With a fresh windows the new drive will have the desired affect, but the machine may get sluggish by the time all drivers/windows updates/applications are installed if it only has 256MB.

My advice? Don't kill yourself too much trying to make this cheap. If the lady isn't willing to spend what it takes to fix it right, let it be. People that don't understand the value of throwing a few bucks at a machine like this excuse not doing so by saying they don't have it, but then they usually do something like go down to CC and drop 5 times as much on a new HP--which generally has the exact same problem straight out of the box...

[BigDan3131]

HBB, I will have them up this week sometime of my case.Im still oldschool about pics, I have a camera with film and just took the last picture. When you see the pics im open to painting anyones case anywhere. Im a professional custom painter and what gets written about painting cases in mags is from those who dont do it alot.

[hUMANbEATbOX]

i could tell it was a pro job just by the way you described it. a good friend of mine used to be really into painting lowrider cars, trucks and bikes, so i have a pretty good idea of how involved it is.

back on topic...

i think a new hdd is in order. the ram you can get around be REALLY tweaking windows, but then again, that's more of your time on her rig that is costing her $$.