The Checkbook is Open....

[WedgeWhacko]

Well since I have a few bucks to burn I am going to buy a SFF, this will be the homestead to the farm.

I am trying to decide what Path I want to take....but for simple purposes let me explain what I need..

I need a system that can fold and be the center of the farm, I will be networking through the new system and it will be used strictly for this purpose.

Now I was thinking of going with the ASUS T2-PH1 Intel Socket T(LGA775) Intel Pentium 4/Celeron INTEL 915G 2x 184Pin Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900 Barebone.
but what fricken chip should I place in it, I've been searching the forums but no real information could be given.
I am an AMD guy but I really think that the Intel will help me with getting PPD.

I can either put a P4 or a Celly in .....Do I need HT for this???

[TollhouseFrank]

hmm..... how much are you lookin' to spend on the system total?

[WedgeWhacko]

hmmm good question....lol

I might go as High as $400-500

[godofgorks]

If you can get the celly d to 200fsb ( actually I think it's 180-190 range) then you can have enough memory bandwidth to fold qmds on that baby. Silver has a few 478 celly d's that can clip a qmd in just over a day. His goal was 24 hours and just didn't quite make the cut on the one. Like 24 hours 15 minutes or something I believe.

P4 will cost a more but will produce better. In the last 24 hours I've spent about 6-7 researching qmd folding and such.

A quick seach in the folding forum for "celeron d" will yield you an abundance on info. Plenty of posts by ChasR comparing intel folding.

[WedgeWhacko]

thanks Godo...

someday I'll be able to get to view the classifieds :)

[Oric]

630s are at a good price right now and they offer 2Meg cache.

Been lookin at a system with layers built around that chip myself.

I have no idea about how well it will oc, the databse may be of help there.

Just a little mental chewing gum for ya to chew on. :shrug:

[godofgorks]

threadjack...

has the database been fixed up lately, it used to be such a great place to see results then it got spammed like crazy so they set it up to be more controlled and i've never been impressed with it since...

okay back on topic

the extra cache will probably yield little it terms of folding, qmds like the memory bandwidth which if your intel and capable, get some qmds for some sweet ppd

good fsb and moderate-good timings give very nice results a decent set of ram (2x256) will allow you to get qmds and only cost 40 for moderate up to 60-70 for some fairly good ram... topping out at >100 if you want uber tight timings but i wouldn't consider it worth the $$ to go that high

[WedgeWhacko]

I think the 630 might be a winner.....or if I needed to go cheaper I could go with the 336.

basically this system will be the QMD muncher....I'll be adding more systems down the line however I want this system to have the power to tackle QMDs and such...

The price difference between the celly and the 630 seems almost 90 bucks so it really doesn't matter which way I go right?

[TollhouseFrank]

hmm.... go with the 630.... and get yourself 2x256's for DualChannel to bump up your memory bandwidth a bit. Combined with a good OC, ought to net you (as long as the system DOES NOT use shared RAM for video and reports less than 504mbs back to stanford), 350-400ppd on QMD's average. 450ppd or more on single qmd's seems to be relegated to the very OC'd P4's that reach 4.2-4.5ghz.

[WedgeWhacko]

Well now I am confused!.....
I have been reading about QMD's and it seems that some posts say that I could be better off getting the 8xx series....

Damn Damn Damn.

[godofgorks]

Dual channel, low latency ram on a system with adequate memory bandwidth is far more crucial than cache size. Given the same amount and latency ram, a P4C with a 512 KB cache folds QMDs at about 145ppd/GHz while a 640 with a 2MB cache folds QMDs at about 155 ppd/GHz. OC'd Celeron Ds with a 256 KB cache can hit 130ppd/GHz if effective FSB is somewhere > 725MHz. Cache makes a difference but the QMD data is so large there just isn't a large percentage of cache hits regardless of size.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Post #17 From This thread:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=413177

A good thread about Celeron D folding performance:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=398092

A very nice post by ChasR:
http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=3864069&postcount=21
from this thread:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=400910


thats it for me tonight i'm beat quarter after two and time for bed

night all

[Oric]

Spend wisely Wedge.

I would see what chasR has for data before I spent.

All I can say is that I have 3 630s in my farm in stock Dell systems with 1Gig and together they throw 6 QMDs a week and that is why I was lookin at them.

[WedgeWhacko]

Yep you are right....I should do more research on setting this system up....I hope that I can find the proper chip that would yield good news.

I am looking at the data now.

The only thing that bugs me is I would have to get another video card rather than using the Onboard video, However I can grab a very cheap video card....remember this system is not going to be running games and stuff.

[ghettocomp]

You Can Get Your video cards here (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=LP-180-P0026-R&cat=VCD)
not the best but can help in setting up a diskless folding farm

[WedgeWhacko]

Now I am really having a prozac moment!

I could make a real solid Intel machine without going SFF...

Now I need to decide if I get better bandwidth with DDR2....

[WedgeWhacko]

I am thinking that perhaps I should just go AMD! sheeesh much easier for me to comprehend.

Seems I could put together 2 maybe 3 machines to the price of an intel.

[ghettocomp]

My thoughts on the subject exactly, Actually I do practice that at the time. At Frys Elextronics, they frequently have Sempron and Celeron combos that sell mostly for the price of the CPU alone. toss on some cheapo Value type ram and be folding in no time. Of course you might need to toss a video card and/or NIC into the mix but it is all good.

example of pricing:
Motherboard/CPU combo - Frys - $69
Video Card - Computergeeks.com $5.00 +/-
Value type RAM-newegg or frys - $24 +/-
NIC - Frys or computergeeks.com - $2-5
480W PSU- Computergeeks.com - $10
total price................................$104. Each approx & before shipping.

Since you are only expecting to be folding, and want many boards. huge quality is not really necessary. Besides, many Intel systems in my experience are at least double.

[godofgorks]

okay, couldn't sleep so back here :p

here is my choices for layers, at least what i'm looking at atm for the planting of my crops for my farm eventually

qmd crucher on the cheap (celly d)

310/315 celly d $50 - $70 retail/ebay/classies
asus p4p800se $60 (refurb @ egg)
decent 2x256 DDR400 (your brand preference) $40-$60 range have moderate timings

price range $150 to $190

links to my choices retail atm
celly d
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819112196
p4p800se
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131484R
ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231011

when overclocked these can produce very nice for qmds ~430-450

for insane ppd on the p147x and p148x (dothan) and nice ppd otherwise

pentium m 730/740 ebay $120-$140
asus p4p800se $60
asus ct-479 adapter $50
decent 2x256 DDR400 (your brand preference) $40-$60 range have moderate timings

total costs 270-310 uses minimal power (save on electrice bill) and can reach 1000ppd on those p147x and p148x as long as they keep coming. Also they do fairly well on qmds, about 400ppd

the only other thing you'll need is a psu which can be split to power two boards... i'm still looking around for what i want in that... something with stable rails with good efficiency that's fairly cheap, less then $50 can be done easily though so add $25 per layer...

My idea right now is to slowly accumulate a few layers of celeron d with boards compatible with the asus ct-479. That way I can upgrade to pentium m's in the future for only a small fee ~100-120

possibly throw a dothan or two in depending on deals and how i'm doing with money at the time i'm planning on adding.

[WedgeWhacko]

ok So for sanity purposes....
Would it be better to use my main rig as the center of my farm?
A64 3500 no OC...on neoPlat2 1gb ram this is my main rig and I use it multiple ways...from gaming to anything I see fit.

or do I spend a few dollars and build a solid foundation for the farm?

[godofgorks]

man... too bad i don't have a fry's around me...

i'm assuming your going for the quantity over quality approach, little to zero OC

i'm more of a quality over quantity, and want to run only a few units producing very nice ppd

both can be justified, it's just the type of person you are, the room you have available, and who pays the electric bill. :)

[infinitevalence]

I would not us an AMD for your main folding rig... your much better off going with the higher end celeron or getting some used P4's out of the classifieds. I have found that i can get good deals on SMP Xeons right now. The last setup i got was the most expencive but then :) its worth it

some used C1's are ~ 100
a used PC-DL is ~ 120
some cheep memory and PSU
and your looking at close to 600ppd for under $300

[ghettocomp]

Many of the same deals at Frys Elextronics are also available at Outpost.com. (also Frys) but they make you look for them a little.

Edit: Computergeeks currently has a End of year sale and some stuff is going for :eek: type prices! careful planning of your farm could be cheaper than you think

[WedgeWhacko]

I can't seem to get a respectful OC on anything lately.....
no matter the quality of the chip....or the memory.

[infinitevalence]

thats part of why i buy used, you now what your getting, just about everything i get retail tends to only be OK. but when i get used parts, so long as they work, i tend to know what their limits are right off the batt.

[ghettocomp]

ok So for sanity purposes....
Would it be better to use my main rig as the center of my farm?
A64 3500 no OC...on neoPlat2 1gb ram this is my main rig and I use it multiple ways...from gaming to anything I see fit.

or do I spend a few dollars and build a solid foundation for the farm?
I would Build a solid foundation first, then stay away from it unless adjustments needed to be made. that way you can still be gaming and not have to lose the farm :rolleyes: no pun intended

[WedgeWhacko]

well only 54 more posts and I might be able to get into the classifieds...lol

I am having a hard time deciding which way to lean for this rig..

I really thought a SFF would be a perfect start for the dedicated farm....

this will be the server....however I want it to fold as well....Do I dare start thinking XEON?

[infinitevalence]

Well..... if you want to dare thinking about it...

I have 2 3.5ghz MO's that i got for $300
i have 4 2.6ghz C1's that i got for $220

then i have a PC-DL thats got my MO's in it right now
an Iwill DPI533 with a set of C1's (its no good at 200 so C1's are the only ones worth putting in there)
and a Tyan board for the last pair of C1's

All and all i think i have spent around $900 and with this i can get as much as 1800 PPD just off my xeons. Its not happeing right now because im about to move :( so my 3.5s are not running and for some reason i cant get my second C1 on the Iwill to start a job from my overclockix server. Im also lacking two heatsinks for the other set of C1's right now, i had to use them at work :( but you get the idea. Yes you could get 9 celleron's and maybe do slighly better overall but then you factor in the power costs and its not looking quite so good, that and space :) i have all this in a stack of 4U rackmount cases so it does not take up too much room and looks bad ass :)

[WedgeWhacko]

Well I will keep grabbing data on this subject...

One thing is certain The Overall best option for the MAIN folding rig is an Intel.

[pscout]

here is my 2 cents (from a p4 qmd folder)

- avoid any mobos with integrated video ... joecamel had a bad experience and i expect it applies to many(most) integrated vid mobo's ... he could only get it to go to 220 fsb which is a seriously under overclocked rig. He has 630's on them. he went with the p5ld2-vm.
- Joe put one of his 630's on an 865 chipset AS8 and took it to 290? fsb.

- if you are not using it for gaming (mine just fold) ... put a cheap pci card in it (i have 5 ati rage 8mb pci's - $15 ea cdn.) PCI is nice ... you can use it on agp or pci-x boards, and lower power means less psu needed and less heat generated.

- without integrated video, 2x256 mb is all you need for just QMD folding unless you go the dual core route. My experience is that with ddr2 mem, mem speed and timings are not very important for QMD crunching. Just make sure mem is compatible ... have read a few probs where the SPD timings on the mem could prevent mobo's from posting --- likely due to early versions of ddr2 and/or mobos. not many 2x256 ddr2 kits - but 1 gb (2x512) are cheap. 3 of my ddr2 rigs are at 1GB, the other is at 2gb since i will be making it my new main rig sometime. all my ddr2 mem is 667 ... not sure if i really needed the faster stuff since i have no 533 to compare it to.

- if mobo uses ddr mem, make sure it will run fast timings - in my experience lower latencies are more important than faster fsb speed. I have a bunch of end-of-life fast ocz 2x256mb kits that are nearly as cheap as single stick value 512.

- i don't have any 915 chipset mobo's - when i shopped/researched found that most are no better than 875/865 chipsets for mem thoughput and the oc on the value boards is likely to be quite low.

- the 945 chipset is in the 2 p5ld2's i have ... they oc depending on cpu very high - 260+.

- i have the p5ld2, p4wd2 and p5wd2-premium. IMHO the p5ld2 is the best bang for the buck. seems to oc as well as the p5wd2 and my best oc's are actually on the p5ld2 as well as my highest ppd rigs (2 830's on them getting 800 ppd, oc'ed at 250-260).
And if you want all the extra feature there is a deluxe model ... for me the deluxe models are way overkill --- i have all the features disabled when i oc!

the 955 asus mobos reach 250 fsb all stock ... water cooling needed around 300 fsb. With phase change/chillers/ectreeme cooling, people are hitting well over 300 fsb with no board mod's. at 630 might hit 4 ghz, if not it will get close. My 551 went straight to 4.25 all stock ... but too hot without extra cooling to go farther (yet :D).


- new 975 chipsets - support upcoming p4's but not clear that they offer any perf advantage from the reviews i have read.

- i bought several 53x's and run them on as8's and p5p800 (865pe chipsets). oc'ed they all produce around 550 ppd on decent ddr mem. Bought the cpu's cheap on ebay. all oc'ed from about 3.5-3.8 ghz. Got 2 531's on ebay for about $135 ea over the summer.
- my highest oc rig is a $185 551 from ebay - running on the p5wd2-p atm - 4.25 ghz on (good) air - over 600 ppd.
- my best ppd rigs ... 830's (2 for $200 each ebay, 1 for $230 shipped) - slowest one is 780 ppd ... 2 are 800-810 ppd. They require a dual core mobo ... i have them on the p5ld2's and p5wd2 ... p5lds are cheaper and mine run faster than the more expensive 955 chipset p5wd2. 830's are very hot and consume much power - need very good hsf on air. 820 might be better but i never got one .. seller gave me an 830 instead.
- another advantage of old cheap pci vid card is that my p5ld2/830's run fine on ocz powerstream 420 ... if you are running higher end video you probably need to get a beefier psu - at least 520 i would think.
- have got some cheap used 478 cpu/mobo combos - my highest 478 northwood ppd is 470 ... fast ocz mem and a 50% oc on a 2.4c. More normal is 400-430 ppd on my northwoods. northwoods are hard to get cheap on ebay now. 520/530 are cheaper! and will produce 100 ppd more. I have no 6xx to compare to ... they usually sell much higher. Only diff is the cache. If you get the 5x1 models you get emt64 support (maybe important in future, but not now). And oc'ed and folding mean that EIST feature is irrelevant.

I bought most of my cpu's on ebay + a few from local newsgroup. On ebay, you have to be patient to get a good deal. I have had good luck with all of mine. Many are oem and used and have no intel waranty - make sure seller guarantees not doa and pay thru paypal ... no regular seller wants to risk a paypal complaint! I know since i raised one due to no delivery .... and got a free upgrade as a result.

Buying new, retail is faster and less hassle, but if you have the time and patience, you can get more for the same or less $ going classified, ebay, etc.
Just be careful and don't get burned.

Hope my brain dump for today helps.

Good luck.

[WedgeWhacko]

Hmmm well As my central hub I am still debating to go the SFF route....I have to think about space requirements...

ASUS Vintage Vintage-PH1 Intel Socket T(LGA775) Intel Pentium 4/Celeron INTEL 915G 4x 184Pin Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900 Barebone

And I am thinking about putting a 630 in it add some decent memory and a cheap vid card.

Would this be a solid foundation?
because ALL my layers will be OC'ed once those get into place..
Is it smart to do this or should I just grab the prozac and pray?

[pscout]

Sorry, i missed the sff point ... most of mine are caseless ... on homemade rack ... on the P4's, any sff case is going to need lots of air flow for a decent reliable OC ... and with space for a big hsf !

Cases are a PITA. ... i have on 830 still in a case ... 10 c higher temps! than the caseless ones, + 4 fans vs 1.

[ihrsetrdr]

"I am thinking that perhaps I should just go AMD! sheeesh much easier for me to comprehend."

Hang in there WW, I know the feeling. But if you want to seriously collect up some of the QMDs, all the dual Opty's in the world won't do you any good; gotta be Intel. As pscout said- ebay's the place for processors; I got an 830 D for $179 in an auction. They were going for $319(retail) on Newegg.

[WedgeWhacko]

I don't plan for the layers to be in a case...

however I was under the impression that a solid foundation for a farm should be somewhat stable as in terms of no overclock.


By the time I decide what my main rig of the farm will be Prices will be lower ...hahahaha

[pscout]

my sig rig is 100% stable, produces 560 ppd, running 724 for the last year.

Once i find the max oc on the rigs ... just back it off 5-10% and you should be stable if all components are good, and temps are low (sub 50 C).

[WedgeWhacko]

Well lets see what route I can take....

I am attempting to stay around 400 bucks

[pscout]

Well lets see what route I can take....

I am attempting to stay around 400 bucks

I hear ya ... that will take some careful shopping.

BTW ... i believe joecamels 2x630/p5wd-vm rigs set him back around $1000 when he built them late summer and he already had some psu's... they are producing 400-425? ppd i think.

He had a long thread on it: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=413610

Good luck!

[WedgeWhacko]

ACK!

I think I can stay below 500

[pscout]

I have several used ones that are even lower (in cdn $) ... but the newest ones were 'less budget constrained' ... so a bunch of my newer components are fairly high end. Thankfully I am not into gaming or i might have spent as much on the vid card's as the rest of the whole rig! :eek:

Happy shopping and building! :cool: :cool:

[dwschoon]

For cpu for the SFF box, I would look at the 506 from newegg. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116224) No HT, but has 1mb cache, emt64, and best of all is only $120. 200fsb will yield 4ghz.

[pscout]

For cpu for the SFF box, I would look at the 506 from newegg. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116224) No HT, but has 1mb cache, emt64, and best of all is only $120. 200fsb will yield 4ghz.

Anybody (ChasR?) know how 533 fsb's work on qmd's?

All my p4 rigs but 1 (and my work lappy) are 800 fsb. The 533 I have (had?) was a 3.06 on an old p4b533 crippled with pc2100 mem - it could only do 260 ppd on qmd's even tho the cpu was oc'ed at 3.5 ghz.

I am wondering if i am missing the boat on good $/ppd setups since i bypass the 533's when shopping for the farm.

[godofgorks]

Anybody (ChasR?) know how 533 fsb's work on qmd's?

All my p4 rigs but 1 (and my work lappy) are 800 fsb. The 533 I have (had?) was a 3.06 on an old p4b533 crippled with pc2100 mem - it could only do 260 ppd on qmd's even tho the cpu was oc'ed at 3.5 ghz.

I am wondering if i am missing the boat on good $/ppd setups since i bypass the 533's when shopping for the farm.

Well I can speak from the 533 since I have a stock dell 2.4 533. It fold QMDs in around 2 days. Depending how much the computer gets used. Not much it's putting out just over 200 upwards of 225, but once I get on and start browsing the forums and whatnot it'll drop to 160-170.

I would assume the memory bus in being saturated. Need more bandwidth.

I'll go run a bandwidth check now.

-EDIT: Realized I didn't have sandra d/l & installed so it'll be a little while...

[Shelnutt2]

I skimmed through this thread. I was suprosed no oen mintioned a 506 instead of a celeron. I would go with a 630, but if you don't want to spend that money get a 506.

506 #1 (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=412724&highlight=506)
506 #2 (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=422137&highlight=506)

[pscout]

Not sure what a 630 goes for, but it would seem for folding, a cheap 531 that would be $20-30 US more than the 506 would prolly way outperform the 506. I expect a 630 would be about the same as a 53x. I recall the mobo delta was $30-40 to move from a non-vm version of the 915 to the 945. Needs a better hsf i expect ($40 vs stock intel?) and cheap ddr2 mem since the dividers work well - similar? $ if you have to buy either ddr or ddr2. Assume same pci video on both. With careful/lucky shopping might only be $100 diff between them.

So then it comes to what the ppd delta will be. 53x on a 945 should be at least 500-550 at a stable OC? (mine get 550 ppd on 865 chipsets).

It would be interesting if i had some time, to try one of my 53x's on the p5ld2 to gauge the ppd diff vs the 865. The only 875 mobos i have are 478's so i can't test 53x's on them them.

Sorry, wedge, not trying to threadjack you ...

[dwschoon]

ive heard that most 506's will do 4ghz @ 200fsb though. higher fsb = more bandwidth for qmd's. Also, on newegg, the 531 is $65 more than the 506.
edit: Also, newegg is having a one day sale on the 630 for $171.

[WedgeWhacko]

So my choices on this matter are HUGE....

After getting some sleep I am back to researching this Intel thing.

This is what so far I gather......

For the OC nomatter what I would have to achieve 200FSB correct? So in order to Munch QMD's in the 24-26hr range this cpu will need a very aggressive OC.....so maybe I should look into cooling options....

I could go nutz and buy a xeon... however setting up a Xeon system costs some MUCHO BUCKS.

[pscout]

ive heard that most 506's will do 4ghz @ 200fsb though. higher fsb = more bandwidth for qmd's. Also, on newegg, the 531 is $65 more than the 506.
edit: Also, newegg is having a one day sale on the 630 for $171.

My price comparison was an ebay one. I have bought 2, and seen a number of 531's go in the 135 range a few months ago. ... smaller delta there between good prices for different chips .. but I haven't searched 506's there. And on ebay generally no returns unless DOA, which i expect is not as good as newegg terms (i haven't bought newegg, they don't ship to canada).

But I think in the end ... the budget rules. I am a bad example to speak about them ... i tend to upsell myself. :o

[godofgorks]

So my choices on this matter are HUGE....

After getting some sleep I am back to researching this Intel thing.

This is what so far I gather......

For the OC nomatter what I would have to achieve 200FSB correct? So in order to Munch QMD's in the 24-26hr range this cpu will need a very aggressive OC.....so maybe I should look into cooling options....

I could go nutz and buy a xeon... however setting up a Xeon system costs some MUCHO BUCKS.

Yeah you'll need the fsb for the bandwidth to fold QMDs.

Also with a dually if you have one running a QMD you are saturating the memory bus fairly moderately, so you second instance (run two, one per physical) will have to take it easy on the mem bus or otherwise they will start to strangle one another.

[WedgeWhacko]

I just want to say thanks to everyone for helping by giving me input on this matter..

2+yrs of being on OCforums and I have never been steered wrong....And now since I joined the Folding Team I notice that you guys totally rock when it comes to helping people...

Thanks.

[ghettocomp]

Anytime

[WedgeWhacko]

Can someone explain why QMD's need so much bandwidth?

I mean I just ran Sandra MEM bandwidth on my a64 3500 and it reads...
SiSoftware Sandra

Benchmark Results
RAM Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 : 5926 MB/s
RAM Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 : 5875 MB/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.

Int Buff'd iSSE2 (Integer STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 6038MB/s
Scaling : 5980MB/s
Addition : 5844MB/s
Triad : 5845MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 92% (estimated)

Float Buff'd iSSE2 (Float STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 6046MB/s
Scaling : 6052MB/s
Addition : 5716MB/s
Triad : 5689MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 91% (estimated)

Chipset 1
Model : Micro-Star International Co Ltd (MSI) nforce3 CPU to PCI Bridge
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 804MHz (1608MHz data rate)
In/Out Width : 16-bit / 16-bit
Maximum Bus Bandwidth : 6432MB/s (estimated)

Logical/Chipset 1 Memory Banks

Chipset 2
Model : Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport Technology Configuration
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 804MHz (1608MHz data rate)
In/Out Width : 16-bit / 16-bit
Maximum Bus Bandwidth : 6432MB/s (estimated)

Logical/Chipset 2 Memory Banks
Bank 2 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.5-3-3-8 2CMD
Bank 3 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.5-3-3-8 2CMD
Channels : 1
Bank Interleave : 2-way
Speed : 2x 201MHz (402MHz data rate)
Width : 128-bit
Maximum Memory Bus Bandwidth : 6432MB/s (estimated)


What is the driving force to munching QMD's??

[godofgorks]

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=428494

[pscout]

i believe (according to my recollection of ChasR's advice) ... you need at least 4000 MB/sec mem bandwidth to crunch one of them at optimal speeds.

... when i run sandra mem bandwidth on any p4 800fsb rig ... with dual channel mem they all get at least that at stock 200 fsb. My 1 oc'ed 3.06 HT 533 on pc2100 mem can only get to about 2500 mb/sec. also according to my oc notes my fastest rigs on 1 stick (single channel) were just under 4000 mb/sec at 200 fsb. On dual channel my HT p4's are in the 5000-5800 range on 865 and 875 chipsets, 6185 on the 955 chipset. and the dual cores get 6350 on 945 and 955 chipsets all at max OC and according to sandra float buffered SSE2 benchmark #.

The folding (ppd) perf increases linearly with fsb, as long as mem bandwidth is not a constraint. On my P4's, this will happen if i fold 2 QMD's. On the dual cores, they get around 50% more folding 2 qmd's, (800 vs 530) but the fast HT p4's will show only a very slight increase, and slower p4's will show a decrease due to contention for bandwidth.

Nik has a 660 at 4.5? that can do 660? ppd , my 551 at 4.25 is producing 610 atm.
My prescott 3.0's oc'ed all produce approx 550 even though their FSB vary. My dual cores at 3.7-3.9 produce approx 780-820. But your mileage can vary due to mem speed to a degree, but latencies much more important. Despite that, there can be other factors ... in JoeCamels thread, he has an as8 with a 630 and low latency mem at a higher oc than my 2 53x's on as8's yet has a lower ppd result? (not sure if he ever got to the bottom of it).

And the QMD favouritism of p4's is also related to the fact that the compiler Stanford uses is from Intel!

Not sure if this help, it is a bit of a brain/experience dump. But ask questions. I am sure others (esp Chasr) can answer them if i or others can't.

edit ... and while typing this i see god has found some of the good threads on this topic about why. They are useful for understanding, but since i have been folding qmds a while now i just oc and measure. With all the variables, every rig's milage will vary somewhat. I just keep tuning until i reach the max stable ppd rate.

[WedgeWhacko]

That's it...I am brain dead.......

I have a Headache...ARRRRGGGHHHH......Intel on my AMD brain...

OK one thing is for sure those damn prescott's run hot....atleast from a folding perspective they might not be that bad but when adding an OC to it then folding 24/7....

I might have to go with a cool running chip and that now leans towards a Mobile...

[Silver]

I run a mix of amd and intel leaning to intel due to the qmds. I keep the a64s cranking as they do not produce badly (for 754s) and the power keeps changing over time from amd to intel and back again. Running layers I am always looking for cost/$/performance. On the intels, the p4 is a given, the celly d's at 533 must run very tight timing with relatively high oc's. Xeon 1.6lv's were an opportune purchase and a dual folder put together very cheaply. If you are going for layers then do some math and look for cost per Point and go were that leads you.

Example, next setup will most likely be on a DFI 875 ($55 shipped), Celly 315 D ($45), Patriot ram ($55), XP-90 ($30) and psu for around $25 shipped. That would be $210. The xp-90 and the processor will be lapped to achieve approximately a ten C drop in temps. Expected PPD would be in the range of 420. 420/210 = 2 points for every dollar spent. The system will run headless on windows so no vid needed. I believe that this compares favorably to a dual core system.

[WedgeWhacko]

well I thought that this would be simple...lol

I have read so many posts in other areas it makes me want to scream....however...I am calculating costs right now... so far I can get a SFF system and the 336 for a tad over $225.....

however I am debating if buying everything piece by piece without a case would be better....

I am worried if I go Caseless for the main folding rig (new intel) that some idiot in the household might spill something on it or what not...not to mention the ambient temps where this rig will be is somewhat higher than the basement...

Here is what a rough plan of the setup is....I have 2 other cpu's in the mix....but those will not be part of the farm...they will fold but not be in the farm persay.

I will have the main on my desk....then I will run the network to the diskless layers downstairs, I want to be able to monitor the layers progress without having to deal with the kids play space..(NOISE NOISE NOISE).

I am overthinking this damn cpu......ack!

[ghettocomp]

....I am overthinking this damn cpu......ack!

That is why I had suggested the type of equipment I did in my previous posts. best to start small, get to know your rigs how they feel and what additional stuff needed. And then start calculating and casually looking for something to change the pointage. Eventually you will find the deals and price breaks for nearly anything you want, as long as you are in no hurry. :santa:

It is not like a Celeron or Sempron rig will be obsolete any time real soon. :) The real trick is to get started. and grow the farm :)

[WedgeWhacko]

yep exactly...

I am going cheap for this rig.....because it's going to be SFF ...

and after all the feedback that I have read I am satisfied to setup a powerful little guy...And this will be the 1st part of the farm....it's the Barn so to speak and if it's going to be used as an LTSB then it really doesn't need all the bells and whistles....
However with the money I saved building this rig I can grab atleast 3 combos easily .

and those 3 combos can be Overclocked to death thus picking up the pace of this rig out of the equation on PPD.

Ahhh when my post count reaches 100 then maybe I'll be able to grab better deals for better chips...Ebay also will be used....
As always reading the tidbits from the experianced INTEL guys seems to me I made a fair assesment and I trust this rig will do fine for the purpose it's intended.

Unless of course I change my mind AGAIN...lol

[WedgeWhacko]

And just when I thought I made my mind up.......

I have thrown out the cheap way to go and now it looks very nasty in terms of price...screw the SFF thinking.....I will just figure out something better...I tried to make a decent system for the Wife to use ever so often However the CUTE BOX she wants just doesn't cut it....and I'll be damn if I put a worthless folder together to be the mainstay of the farm....the wife will just have to Deal with the Look...Sheeesh

2 damn days fighting over this rig.....and I have come to a conclusion that INTEL might be my undoing...I mean Can't they just make a chip that runs Cool? without costing a fricken fortune.

ARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH :bang head

Now since I vented I feel better.....

My apologizes.

[TollhouseFrank]

dude.... just go with a socket 754 Sempron 2800+ and OC the heck out of it.

[WedgeWhacko]

lol.....

I wanted to go intel this rig.

[ghettocomp]

lol, Its only a folding farm, need more Powah? then just add another layer or two.

[WedgeWhacko]

yep....
I think that I am going slightly insane over choosing another rig....
call it a fear of seeing the Intel kick my a64 3500's butt....

I priced out so many things.....however I have learned more about the INTEL chips than I ever thought I would want too.... :eh?:

[pscout]

yep....
I think that I am going slightly insane over choosing another rig....
call it a fear of seeing the Intel kick my a64 3500's butt....

I priced out so many things.....however I have learned more about the INTEL chips than I ever thought I would want too.... :eh?:

You are reminding me of when i bought my first oc'ing rig (sig rig) about 1 year ago!

It has been a good learning rig for me and a good rig

but note that keyword .. learning ... implies at least to me since i know i am imperfect, that i made a few mistakes along the way too!

Don't sweat it too much ... after all its only $. :D :D

Or is it because you are nervous about joining the dark side :)

[dwschoon]

Also, when you get the thing built, the o/c bug will get you and you will just run out and buy more parts to make another "sig" rig.

[pscout]

Also, when you get the thing built, the o/c bug will get you and you will just run out and buy more parts to make another "sig" rig.

I think what really hooked me was folding ... and getting the first few really good used buys to upgrade the kids puters ... which i never did need to do ... so then i kept shopping for more farms rigs .... and even when i did buy several sig rig replacement candidates recently what did i do? ... I put em to work on the farm! :) :D

[ihrsetrdr]

Or is it because you are nervous about joining the dark side

Yep, it's a case of the Intel jitters . I can relate. ;)

[MICT158]

I think what really hooked me was folding ...

LOL! I can identify with that. :)

I've been watching this thread with some interest, as I have also been contemplating buying another Intel machine to add to the folding stable. This is just too much fun. :santa:

[ghettocomp]

He Fears the Powah and strength of the Dark Side of an OS. Diskless-Headless Folding can be Awesome Force.
http://members.cox.net/deebe6/novelty/emp.gif Once Drawn to the Dark Side.. There can be no turning back. BWahahaha!

[MICT158]

He Fears the Powah and strength of the Dark Side of an OS. Diskless-Headless Folding can be Awesome Force.
http://members.cox.net/deebe6/novelty/emp.gif Once Drawn to the Dark Side.. There can be no turning back. BWahahaha!

Hey ghetto,

I would like to explore a diskless/headless farm, but alas my knowledge of linux and such is probably not up to the needed speed for such an undertaking. It would be fun to try, but the end result would probably look like: :shrug: :bang head . LOL!

[dwschoon]

Hey ghetto,

I would like to explore a diskless/headless farm, but alas my knowledge of linux and such is probably not up to the needed speed for such an undertaking. It would be fun to try, but the end result would probably look like: :shrug: :bang head . LOL!

Go here. (http://overclockix.octeams.com/)
Download overclockix LTSP 2.1 (Torrent)
Instructions for setting up a diskless farm with this can be found here. (http://overclockix.octeams.com/How_to_setup_a_Folding_Farm.htm)

It is very easy, even for us linux dummies, due to hundreds of hours of work by Arkaine.

[dwschoon]

He Fears the Powah and strength of the Dark Side of an OS. Diskless-Headless Folding can be Awesome Force.
http://members.cox.net/deebe6/novelty/emp.gif Once Drawn to the Dark Side.. There can be no turning back. BWahahaha!

Ive got my server running. Now I just need to pony up the $$ for some p4 based clients for it.

[ghettocomp]

Get a cheap AMD setup to practice on, the PXE stuff can sometimes get frustrating. but once you understand the basics. it rules! Nearly all the cycles & RAM will go towards the WU's completion, and slightly faster. If only by seconds each

[infinitevalence]

So far i still cant get the dual CPU support to work on the LTSP, single works just fine, but not dual :(

[ghettocomp]

Same Here, I'm sure that someone has the goods on how it can be done. Probably something so simple...

[Nexus Realized]

Would it be cheaper maybe going with a P4 setup from say Retrobox? I think they have complete 2.8GHz systems for $260.00. I wonder what two of those systems would produce daily.

[MICT158]

Would it be cheaper maybe going with a P4 setup from say Retrobox? I think they have complete 2.8GHz systems for $260.00. I wonder what two of those systems would produce daily.

Another path that I have been VERY tempted to go down. I've also been shopping the local computer shops for old refurbs, but NO luck there so far.

My old P4/1.9 Ghz Dell boxer is making just over 200 ppd on QMDs right now, so the output should be good (ChasR could tell us EXACTLY what one will make.) :)

ETA: Thanks dwschoon for the links and info on diskless farms. :)

[WedgeWhacko]

Is the darkside really that bad?..I am at work pondering still on this rig's setup....

Well I will go pretty cheap for the server, however the layers will be that of the Darkside...

I feel so dirty just typing the word INTEL....

Is this the feeling luke had when standing next to Vader?? Oh the agony...

[TollhouseFrank]

dude... couyld get a cheap ?478? board, a 2.8ghz-3.2ghz Socket ?478? P4.... and 768mbs of PC3200.... and OC it to 3.6 or so Ghz... and *BLAM*... 430-460ppd there depending on chipset and RAM timings.

[Nexus Realized]

I'm pretty curious to know what one of those 2.8GHz P4's from Retrobox would do PPD also, wacko.

I don't have the slightest clue on if I could build my own for that price, $260.00 is a pretty good bargain. OC'ing is most likely out of the question with one of those boxes since they are all pre-built machines from like HP, or Dell.

[WedgeWhacko]

well I notice that my layers could be of the 478 P4s not a bad price really...problem is that my poor amd over there might feel left out of the mix when the empire starts taking over the farm.

[TollhouseFrank]

well.... the time will come when the AMD's will reign supreme again in the Points War. They did this past spring when 600 pointers were all the rage. Now the QMD's are all the rage and Intels are in. Something else will come along that will put the AMD back on top again.

[AlabamaCajun]

Use the Force, get more AMD, 600 pointers are coming in, I'm just trying to figure out how to get them on a steady diet. I've got an Dual Opti still on the sleigh coming tomorrow that might be folding next week :santa: :santa:. I looked at the Empiretels but when I noticed those teeny weeny L1 caches or 12+16 vs 64+64 on the AMDs the deal was sealed. Thanks to Harlam for converting me.

[godofgorks]

I've been getting a steady diet of 600s on my duron. Right now it just uploaded its fourth on in a row. It's sitting beside me headless atm so I have absolutely no idea what I got on it now. :)

Hopefully another 600 as this punky little 1ghz (morgan) duron OC'd to 1170 can pump out just under 100ppd on them.

I just enabled bigpackets and haven't looked back.

[WedgeWhacko]

so should the cyrix III start a comeback?...lol

well with the outlook for 2006 not looking to well in terms of the must haves...I bet I could easily get a Plantation going cheaply..

however the First rig is the hardest to choose....

[ghettocomp]

well.... the time will come when the AMD's will reign supreme again in the Points War. They did this past spring when 600 pointers were all the rage. Now the QMD's are all the rage and Intels are in. Something else will come along that will put the AMD back on top again.
I'm hoping I can find something that a VIA CPU can munch on in less than a decade, nothing folds quickly on them, the timeless tinkers take nearly 3 - 4 weeks!

[WedgeWhacko]

OK I figured it out.....

the 335 celly will be the chip of choice for the server.....not great but atleast I can relax and say it will do as a server..

[ihrsetrdr]

I had custody of a Cyrix 3 around a year ago and dropped a client on it. I don't recall how long I ran it before I put it out of it's misery, but it never did finish the first wu, one of the 241 point tinkers, I think. :eh?:

[WedgeWhacko]

yes cyrix blows goat balls....

if you could cluster the damn things together to work on 1 WU it might help...but you might need 25 of them to even complete a tinker within a week.

[WedgeWhacko]

ok scratch the idea of that CPU....wife just checked something and an error in my favor just added another hundy...... that's even better...guess it's time to realize that more bucks means better crap.....lol

[Joe Camel]

hay hay, thanks for the good words about... me :)

1st off, watch out WW, Farming is addictive!!

on my door-step today
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7792/pict03401em.jpg


sooooo much to say.....new hardware not intalled/FOLDing........

:bang head


GOOD LUCK!!!

PS ill tell ya if this new mobo works out better for my 630's (its DDR1 vs the DDR2 in my "AMD-Guy" thread) and i have a 531 rig in repair from work (1x of the 2x mobo's) so i can try to do some 630 vs 531 CPU tests

just got a 840 up and going a few days ago... :drool::eek::drool:
cant beat the points/rig of these dual cores!


EDIT: NO OC settings :cry:
thats ok for the @ work rigs...but these arnt the ultimate Farm mobos...and the search goes on...

[ChasR]

A p4C @ 2.8 makes 400 ppd on QMDs.

[Nexus Realized]

ChasR, I'm assuming you're talking about the 2.8GHz on Retro. 400PPD is not bad production at all considering they are completely built and $260.00

[Joe Camel]

A p4C @ 2.8 makes 400 ppd on QMDs.

tell that to my 3x 531's that only get 280 PPd!

they are build to order Systemax;
THIS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138263) mobo and MY TCCD @ 200MHz 2,2,2,6

im hoping THESE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131520) new mobo's (above) can do 400 :mad:

looking for new BIOS ... hoping....to find some OC settings :rolleyes:



in the long run, i think its worth the PCI vid card ($) to get a solid mobo with good OC ability (hint hint) ;)

[Nexus Realized]

LOL, Joe are you trying to delude yourself into thinking you need more hardware?
Admit it, you want that vid card so when F@H goes GPU you'll have more powah! :p

[pscout]

tell that to my 3x 531's that only get 280 PPd!

they are build to order Systemax;
THIS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138263) mobo and MY TCCD @ 200MHz 2,2,2,6

im hoping THESE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131520) new mobo's (above) can do 400 :mad:

looking for new BIOS ... hoping....to find some OC settings :rolleyes:



in the long run, i think its worth the PCI vid card ($) to get a solid mobo with good OC ability (hint hint) ;)


But i seem to recall a few tech tips on another thread to up your rigs' folding production ... whips ? cattleprods? and more :D ... have you tried those out yet? :eh?:

[WedgeWhacko]

cattleprods???? :eek:

this is not one of those sick and twisted Intel things?

[Joe Camel]

we dont call it "the dark side" for noth'n!!

---

well, the new mobo with a 531 and TCCD @ 2226 200MHz is hitting 386 PPD (EMIII)
not too far off from ChasR's 400... but this is a 3.0GHz CPU. :shrug:

[WedgeWhacko]

well I shall be learning the darkside's ways I guess....

the light side for me is hooked on a damn 136pointer....

32mins a frame Yuck...

Where is yoda when you need him?

[Joe Camel]

LOL, Joe are you trying to delude yourself into thinking you need more hardware?
Admit it, you want that vid card so when F@H goes GPU you'll have more powah! :p
ive got a x800pro and a x800 XT-PE just sitting on a shelf waiting for GPU FOLDing!! :drool:

my Venice rig upstairs has a 6800Ultra and that rig just surfs the web... ;)

[Joe Camel]

now the confusing part... i have another systamax rig that is using an Intel mobo (D915GAV) with the i915G (onboard vid) chipset; running a stock 630 and loose mem settings that hits 450 PPD 24/7...

so it can be done... i just cant figure out the difference between the output of very similar rigs :shrug:

[WedgeWhacko]

Is Chasr the Sith Lord?....the guy seems to know every thing about Folding.....quite scary I must admit...

[TollhouseFrank]

now the confusing part... i have another systamax rig that is using an Intel mobo (D915GAV) with the i915G (onboard vid) chipset; running a stock 630 and loose mem settings that hits 450 PPD 24/7...

so it can be done... i just cant figure out the difference between the output of very similar rigs :shrug:


what are your RAM timings? Chasr's research has come up with QMD's can be affected 5-7% just by changing timings from say... 2-2-2 to 3-4-4. Maybe the RAM timings are what is throwing it off?

[Joe Camel]

hehe, would you believe that the 450 PPD is @ 3,4,4,10 and the others are 2226...

[pscout]

hehe, would you believe that the 450 PPD is @ 3,4,4,10 and the others are 2226...


It must be one of the secrets of the Dark Side :D

[Joe Camel]

well, i found a clockgen that would OC these new mobos :)

and then i promptly ... corrupted the drive :cry:

fell free to add your suggestions HERE (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=433339)

*&^#*&$)*&@(^%)@&^)%^&@#%(*&^(& :rolleyes: