• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

Windows Vista

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.

CoreGamer

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Lots of stuff has been floating around about vista, and before you guys continue to Hate it , you should read about the new Build (5270 December). There are alot of adjustments, of course you still wont like Vista, but you wont hate it as much as the older Version.

(http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5270.asp)

And Future Versions arent looking that bad either:

This week, Microsoft co-president Jim Allchin waxed enthusiastic in an email message to the Windows client team about the wonders of build 5286, a version of Vista that post-dates 5270 by over two weeks. "All I can say is ... wow," Allchin wrote. "This product is going to blow people away ... I am sitting here listening to Clapton, managing 4,000 photos, browsing the Internet, doing email, using search, playing with sync between PCs, etc. -- all at the same time. The [out of box experience] was cool (even with all its current issues). And on and on. The Windows team is back -- and it's smokin'!"
 
Last edited:
That doesn't make me feel any better at all about Vista. It's pretty much exactly the same as we've been hearing.
 
This week, Microsoft co-president Jim Allchin waxed enthusiastic in an email message to the Windows client team about the wonders of build 5286, a version of Vista that post-dates 5270 by over two weeks. "All I can say is ... wow," Allchin wrote. "This product is going to blow people away ... I am sitting here listening to Clapton, managing 4,000 photos, browsing the Internet, doing email, using search, playing with sync between PCs, etc. -- all at the same time. The [out of box experience] was cool (even with all its current issues). And on and on. The Windows team is back -- and it's smokin'!"

My windows 98 machine can do all that :shrug:
 
Did I mention you can Rip stuff with Windows Media Player? I guess microsoft is loosening up on the DRM thing
 
Until vista is OUT of beta:


  • 1. NO ONE can make judgement on it since it is still LACKING alot of features
    2. it is a BETA!!! how can you judge a final product based on a BETA version..

People who say Vista sucks - perhaps cause of all the DRM "hype" otherwise the opinions really have no solid base.

i want to try Vista, i hpe it is good and offers something over XP worth upgrading for, otherwise, oh well!
 
Beta software tends to be very close to the final product, so making judgments based on beta info makes sense. Sure, some things can change somewhat, but stuff is not likely to change radically.
 
CoreGamer said:
Did I mention you can Rip stuff with Windows Media Player? I guess microsoft is loosening up on the DRM thing

Doubtful. I think they want to keep track of what you are ripping. Vista in the beginning was so DRM heavy is was sad. I'm holding off judgement till it comes out.
 
I'm anticipating a very "Pretty" OS that strips away any of your rights to do what you want with copyrighted material you LEGALLY own. :( Piraters AND legit consumers will sufer alike - not cool. The sad thing is the Piraters will probably have more freedom due to a better knowledge of how DRM works and "Workarounds", and the Legit Consumers are locked down cold.

I won't be upgrading for a long time (or at least until we know the entire DRM scoop). I'll still build my next PC to be "Vista Compatible", but that is just in case ;)

:attn:
 
If Microsoft could continue to produce a DRM-free OS, they would.
Like most large corporations out of the initial venture capitol rush, Microsoft runs on inertia and would rather not fix what isn't broken.
However, this is not what the MPAA and RIAA want, and those organizations spent considerable amounts of time and money to machinegun lawsuits through the judicial system to accomplish their ends: controlling what the user can and can't do with their software, and holding companies that produce products that "enable" users to work around product restrictions responsible for what their products are used for. This is why Grokster went under: it was deemed that while their software could have "legitimate" uses, Grokster was legally responsible for the piracy it was widely used for. What does this mean? Microsoft, and any other company that produces a product that can be used to "promote illegal acitivity" can be held responsible for their actions.
(Believe you me, I think that the RIAA and MPAA repeatedly exploited the legal system and should be punished for such rash actions, but there are not laws against people and organizations that bruteforce the system. However, we can play by their game, and I am still surprised that we have not seen a group of anti-DRM WoW players start a class action lawsuit against Sony for "enabling workarounds to the anticheating system in WoW", but then again on the anti-DRM front we are not as organized as the opposition.)
The light side is that this obviously is not something that Microsoft is going to spend much time researching and developing since it won't lead to an increase in profitability, so their DRM protocols shouldn't be much harder than they already are to disable: i.e. wait for some smart cracker to find a workaround or a reg-hack. Furthermore, as long as Microsoft puts a compliant system in the OS, they can't be held responsible for someone finding a workaround.

Finally, to the anti-DRM crowd:
Shame on you for thinking this is some new evil to combat, how wrong you are! Shame on you for not closing Pandora's box before evil got out! Shame on you for not acting sooner!
You don't want DRM, do you? Well, neither have any us who have been busy seriously fighting DRM! You thousands and neophytes, you hoard of newcomers think that you can stop it now? Hardly!!
Where were you in 1996 when WIPO was passed?
Where were you in 1997 when NET was passed?
Where were you in 1998 when DMCA was passed?
Where were you in 1999 when the MPAA tried to stop DeCSS?
Where were you when the myriad of laws that govern the digital frontier were passed, and what if anything, did you do to try and stop them?
I hope we succeed in stopping DRM, although I have serious doubts that we will be able to at this point, and I can see a bleak future ahead. Do you honestly think that avoiding the next Microsoft OS or sticking with Linux will work forever? No, it won't. Sometime in the near future, DRM protection will encompass the very hardware and software that will even play the media, and those that don't comply will be left out in the cold. If you think that blaming Microsoft will accomplish anything, think again: get out there and start emailing your lawmakers to oppose DRM. If they don't do what you want, vote for someone else. If we keep at it and get more vocal about the issue, we might actually get something done...
 
Mr.Guvernment said:
Until vista is OUT of beta:


  • 1. NO ONE can make judgement on it since it is still LACKING alot of features
    2. it is a BETA!!! how can you judge a final product based on a BETA version..

People who say Vista sucks - perhaps cause of all the DRM "hype" otherwise the opinions really have no solid base.

i want to try Vista, i hpe it is good and offers something over XP worth upgrading for, otherwise, oh well!
I cant agree with you more
 
Actually, I've been there since the late 90's fighting DRM, the DMCA, and all of these ridiculous laws that deprive us of basic freedoms.

I used to average about 400 CD's per year. Last year, I bought 0. That's because I refuse to support the RIAA/MPAA. Same deal with DVD's, although I was never a huge DVD purchaser to start with. The last DVD I bought, and the only one I've bought in some time, was about Linux (Revolution OS), and that was because it didn't have any copy protection on it. I haven't actually copied it, even to make a backup, but I refuse to buy anything with DRM in place.

I disagree with you that M$ could be found liable because they didn't put in place a huge subsystem to block illegal actions. As long as they aren't really doing anything to enable it, I don't think they could be legally responsible. Besides, M$ is above the law, they have too much money and too many lawyers to have to fear the RIAA/MPAA. M$ would just buy the studios and then drop the lawsuits. =p

The reason Bill is so behind this TCPA crap is that he wants to prevent illegal software copying. The rest of it is just to deflect criticism off M$ onto other industries and because the RIAA/MPAA will make it worth his while (for example, by excluding Linux from the ability to play/use certain types of media). Bill isn't afraid of them, he's the one driving the DRM bus (hopefully off a cliff).
 
BTW, in the US the ruling class (families and individuals of great generational wealth and their allies) determine what laws get passed. Yes you do have some impact by writing or emailing your reps (forget those form letters though) but the big corporate/organization's lobbyists have soooo much more influence.

Sony is getting sued by a few states but even several million dollars in fines are but a slap on the wrist. Sony knows it and so do those states.

The RIAA and MPAA are members of the ruling class and their voice is much much louder than yours. So go ahead and write you reps, because it might help to blunt the full extent of the damage. But it won't stop that DRM train from coming in.
 
Finally, to the anti-DRM crowd:
Shame on you for thinking this is some new evil to combat, how wrong you are! Shame on you for not closing Pandora's box before evil got out! Shame on you for not acting sooner!
You don't want DRM, do you? Well, neither have any us who have been busy seriously fighting DRM! You thousands and neophytes, you hoard of newcomers think that you can stop it now? Hardly!!
Where were you in 1996 when WIPO was passed?
Where were you in 1997 when NET was passed?
Where were you in 1998 when DMCA was passed?
Where were you in 1999 when the MPAA tried to stop DeCSS?
Where were you when the myriad of laws that govern the digital frontier were passed, and what if anything, did you do to try and stop them?
I hope we succeed in stopping DRM, although I have serious doubts that we will be able to at this point, and I can see a bleak future ahead. Do you honestly think that avoiding the next Microsoft OS or sticking with Linux will work forever? No, it won't. Sometime in the near future, DRM protection will encompass the very hardware and software that will even play the media, and those that don't comply will be left out in the cold. If you think that blaming Microsoft will accomplish anything, think again: get out there and start emailing your lawmakers to oppose DRM. If they don't do what you want, vote for someone else. If we keep at it and get more vocal about the issue, we might actually get something done...
Was that a copy/paste?

Let's see. In 1996, I was 10 years old and in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. 1997 I was 11 in the Gama Gofa province, 10 hours drive away from a telephone. Same in 1998. Back to Addis in 1999. I didn't surf the web until 2000.

You thousands and neophytes, you hoard of newcomers think that you can stop it now? Hardly!!
So we should give it up now, should we?
 
I agree, copy protection is getting way, way out of hand. Did you know that the MPAA and RIAA now consider copying CDs/DVDs among friends to be the biggest threat to their... money? Yes, the very forms of "piracy" that were deemed legal with cassettes and VHS tapes are now being thrown around the legal ballpark again.
Just goes to show you that they are willing to throw their weight around time and time again at the same issues.
As for not having a voice in the political world, this is not true. Due to the fact that the general populace is lazy and a large percentage of the populace cannot be bothered to vote, organized minorities have the power. The AARP is a political force because they have enough people who are willing to vote on issues that they support and they are able to have a controlling interest the outcome of elections. The same applys to religious advocacy groups and extremists. So an organized anti DRM group with sufficient political clout would be able to have an effect, but such an organization does not currently exist. While I alone have next to no impact on politics, 10,000 or 100,000 or 1,000,000 organized people willing to fight for an issue do.
Microsoft in of itself does not have the power to fight the MPAA/RIAA head on. They are simply too big, too powerful for a single business entity to combat. This is why Microsoft and other businesses are forced to dance to their tune. The people however do have the power to fight these organizations because as you said in the monopoly thread, no corporate organization is more powerful than the government because the government is the people. But when the people could care less about anything except a cup of Starbucks and a pair of Nikes and a stable income, corporate entities do become more powerful than the people.
As for DRM on Vista, I won't draw any conclusions until we actually see firsthand what is in place and how difficult it is to circumvent. My suspicion is that it will be made to stop the masses, like DVD player region codes now, but will be relatively easily circumvented by the more technical minority.
Do you think that Linux will be unable to play the same media as on Windows? Only until the linux community finds a workaround, which I have no doubt it will. This is a matter of computers and software; virtually everything can be circumvented, mimiced, or destroyed, and it will continue to be that way for a long, long time.
 
The main issue with linux and circumvention of copyright is that it is illegal in the US due to the DMCA and software patents. That law is an abomination and should be repealed. I have no doubt that there are people clever enough to do it. Fortunately Europe is more concerned about freedom, so all the circumvention will go on in Europe and other places and some Americans will download the software here and use it clandestinely.

I also agree that the reason the MPAA/RIAA get away with **** like this is that the people let them. If 90% of the American public simply refused to buy copy protected media, do you really think they'd continue to copy protect stuff? They'd cave within a month. However, the reality is that most people are simply to apathetic to do anything about it.

I disagree with your assessment of M$ vs the RIAA/MPAA. M$ has a greater market capitalization by a huge margin than any recording studio and its budget its cash reserves are as much greater than the MPAA/RIAA than those of the MPAA/RIAA are greater than ours. M$ has ridiculous amounts of cash on its books. Have you even looked at the balance sheet recently? We're talking about a $50 BILLION cash reserve. That's obscene, and totally unprecedented. Most companies that size would have cash reserves in the neighborhood of $500 million or so, or less, that's 1% of M$.
 
Google would be relatively accurate close comparison to Microsoft, and Google is amassing cash reserves right now. Currently they are up to $6 billion or so. Wanna know something funny? I cannot confirm if it is true or not, but rumor around Redmond is that MSN Search has been granted a "blank check" to do whatever it takes to take the lead search engine spot. Yep, that means as much of that $50 billion as needed is theirs, and having seen the rapid increase in MSN Search advertisements, I am beginning to believe it.
Microsoft cannot take on the MPAA/RIAA head on, because if they fail to comply, the organizations can simply tell Microsoft that they won't allow playback on Microsoft products. Since Media Center is a current interest of Microsoft and looks to be very profitable in the future, what do you think they are going to do? This is the power of the MPAA/RIAA, they control the media itself, so they can do whatever they please with it, and that includes excluding support for personal computers. Microsoft may or may not have leverage due to the fact that most music and eventually movies are going to be downloaded from the internet onto a PC, but it is likely not in interests to put that to test when they can half bake DRM and get on with the rest of things. Although, this may not be the case, and we will have to see how things turn out...
As for Europe being more free, the EU Copyright Directive is in many ways similar to the DMCA. It differs on a number of points, but the fact of the matter is that it enforces much of the same policies as over on this side of the pond.
 
Back