Swiftech -which CPU block

Hi

I'm pretty new to watercooling so please bear with me. I'm looking at Swiftech because it is available here in the UK and because it supports decent size tubing, unlike most of the Asetek stuff I've seen.

I'm cooling an overclocked FX60, two overclocked 7800GTX's on a DFI Lanparty NF4 SLI modded Ultra and so I'm also keen to cool the chipset too.

I plan to put all but the rad (either 2 or 3 x 120, probably a BlackIce Extreme) inside the case (the case to be decided).

So, with this in mind I've been looking at the Swiftech Apogee, Storm and MCW6002. I've read in these forums that the Storm is very good but the newer Apogee seems to be out of favour whilst the much older MCW6002 is described as "the best".

Given the setup described, any recommendations/comments would be welcome.

Thx

I think all three block perform with in 1-2C margin, I'm interested to hear what ppl are saying though.

id go for the storm block

Whats the deal with the Apogee? Swifttech touts the **** out of it.

At stock speeds, most waterblocks perform close to each other. However, when actually pushing the processor in overclocking conditions, you will notice a diffence in performance from each block. The Storm by far is the best and there is still suffiencient quantity in Europe. Swiftech cut corners with the apogee and its performance isnt all that great, they seem to be pushing it since its their own design and much cheaper to make. The discontinued 6000 series are still decent blocks with much better construction than the apogee. Some people have been recommending the old 6002 series over the apogee

NoodleHead said:

Swiftech cut corners with the apogee and its performance isnt all that great, they seem to be pushing it since its their own design and much cheaper to make. The discontinued 6000 series are still decent blocks with much better construction than the apogee. Some people have been recommending the old 6002 series over the apogee

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Please qualify where we "cut corners"
Please qualify "6000 is a much better construction"

I look forward to reading the details.

Best Regards,



Gabriel Rouchon
Chairman, CTA

Swiftech Inc.,
1703 E. 28th St.,
Signal Hill, CA 90755
T. (562) 595-8009
F. (562) 595-8769

ive just heard that people have had problems with the apogee leaking ..
i went with the swiftech storm ... should be here friday

The apogee's machining process isnt the best and can leave lil tiny metal shavings in the block itself, and there are certain areas of the top housing that are very thin and can crack and cause leaks with some pressure. The 6002 on the other hand, is as solid as you can get, i must admit that it doesnt look too attractive, but its very rare that this block will ever have any leak issues. The Storm's jet impingement design causes it to be more restrcitive than the two other blocks, but drastically adds to the overall cooling potential of the block.

There were more issues when it was first released. If you want some threads:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=431892
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=434689
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=429260
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=428996
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=427575
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=427972

"machining process isn't the best": to cut 1x1mm copper pins in mass production, you HAVE to HAVE the best possible tools
"and can leave metal shavings": always true with copper - deburring is a post machining operation - we addressed that thru inspection and we are now bead-blasting the pins to remove all burrs.

None of the above qualify for your "cutting corners" statement which infers a deliberate intent on the part of Swiftech to curtail quality. Such is absolutely not the case. Ecomonies of scale and smart engineering are definitely on the agenda, but neither at the cost of quality nor that of performance.

"Thin areas in the top housing than can crack.." etc: a concern was expressed by systemcooling writer Lee Garbutt in his review of the block. Lee subsequently fully retracted (with apologies) this concern in the Procooling forum stating that it was unfounded. We had one instance of a failed block, much publicized I must add, and that's it. This instance caused us to reinforce our QC and individually test every single block that has been shipped since then. Track record on the reliability of these blocks is better than that of the 6000, 6002 and Storm combined at this point in time.

Two reports (that I know of) of leaky blocks have been verified to be user error (not tightening the fittings correctly) which we have addressed by editing the installation guide. Similar mishaps could occur with Storm, or any block using o-ring fittings.

So far, whether we are talking about the base plate, or the housing, I fail to see where we "cut corners".

Performance: all our tests as well as user reports show that there is very little performance difference if any between the Apogee and the Storm. Some tests show the Storm a little better, and some show it a little worse. Please advise if you can substantiate user reports showing Apogee's poor performance at this point.

The 6002 was not a bad block, but it had substantial fabrication issues. From a performance standpoint, it is easily outpaced by our most recent offerings, either Storm or Apogee.

I will finally add that we are touting the Apogee not because we feel that the Storm is bad, on the contrary, but because we truly feel that cosmetic considerations aside, the Apogee is probably the best water-block (value and performance) on the market today for mainstream enthusiast users. The Storm remains on top if you remove your IHS, but only hardcore users are willing to do this and we keep the Storm alive for them.


Best Regards,



Gabriel Rouchon
Chairman, CTA

Swiftech Inc.,
1703 E. 28th St.,
Signal Hill, CA 90755
T. (562) 595-8009
F. (562) 595-8769

Glad you could chime in.

5|*42 said:

There were more issues when it was first released. If you want some threads:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=431892
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=434689
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=429260
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=428996
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=427575
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=427972

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Leaks: Precisely the two people I was referring to in my earlier response. they didn't tighten their fittings properly.

Thank you by the way for these threads, as one of them reinforces my point concerning performance, as D49 reports a 5C better performance with the Apogee than with the 6000 (the 6000 had exactly the same perf as the 6002, since it was the same product, just different barbs).

Do you realize that 5C is an enormous gain in thermal management ? We spend literally thousands of man-hours to gain 1 Degree!

i find it wrong to declare the apogee the best block or w/e when the Storm G5 and G7 exist. and those posts that were posted were not the only people with problems with the apogee. there were many others.

grouchon said:

Do you realize that 5C is an enormous gain in thermal management ? We spend literally thousands of man-hours to gain 1 Degree!

Click to expand...

I will add to the above statement that even if the 5C improvement might not be entirely attributed to the Apogee technology, this certainly goes in the right direction of validating our claims, including better overal system performance, as d93 also reported lower temps of the GPU.

The only change I would have to my Apogee block would be the material choice. I like metal. I want an all-copper Apogee, and I would pay nicely for it...with matching MCW55's. That said, I had a hell of a time stopping the leaks in my system, until I put my barb-converters on my 55's correctly (weren't pushed in enough). After that, it is sweet.

You free to find wrong w/e you want. We are free to express what we truly believe in.

Copper has gone up from $2.00/lb 1 year ago to $3.00/lb last week. Any manufacturer using copper is going to try to use alternative materials where the copper is not absolutely needed. The housing contributes nothing to the performance => no copper.

The enthusiast wants reasonable prices, and maximum performance. That's what we are trying our best to offer. But I agree that we cannot please everyone (cosmetics).

Maybe we should make a transparent top with LED lights ?

grouchon said:

You free to find wrong w/e you want. We are free to express what we truly believe in.

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ok, but you cant declare something the best if you havent evualted others. cathar's g5 and g7 blow the apogee out of the water (no pun intended).

It sure got a helluva lot of bad rap, reguardless of how good it was made. Most leaks are user-created anyways, so you I guess the worst you could say is the Apogee is less stupid-people friendly. I got it for 40 shipped though, which is a good deal reguardless.

And if you look on the second page of d94's thread, there's some of scepticism about his results.

Aidenswarrior said:

ok, but you cant declare something the best if you havent evualted others. cathar's g5 and g7 blow the apogee out of the water (no pun intended).

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read my language please: "the Apogee is probably the best water-block (value and performance) "

What's the cost of the G5 and G7 again, or the cost of our Storm for that matter ?